As much as I dislike Leylines as cards in general, it's the general plan I go too, if only because we can throw them away for value if we draw redundant pieces.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
I honestly think the "we can ditch it to Looting" argument is a little washed off. At least you can overdo it. Its not that we would want to play just situationally bad cards since we can all ditch them right? I think the individual strength of cards is still really good to have.
Think about it this way: If you are looting into Leyline its pretty much a forced discard. You have no choice. I actually much prefer looting into all live cards and getting the choice over which card now benefits me the most. Either way its card disadvantage anyway, and discarding Leyline doesn't help you anyways. I think it is a little biased since we tend to think badly about discarding say a bolt which could be useful at times compared to discarding a worthless leyline. However, what you forget here is that if you looting and draw into Leyline and a useful card looting effective becomes: Draw one card and discard one card. Leyline basically just gets milled, since its a forced discard. Now I think Draw one and discard one is just worse than draw 2 and discard 2 since you have less options to choose from.
I agree, in general, but I feel that Leyline is simply the most powerful GY hate effect we have access to that doesn't screw our gameplan over. Nihil Spellbomb can be decent, but a one-off effect rather than a static one is often just not good enough.
I don't think the "pitch it to Looting" argument magically makes Leyline good, I just think that it offsets the downside of Leyline enough to make running it for graveyard matchups - which do come up - the best option, rather than less effective hate pieces.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
You have to threat surgical as a combo hate, not a GY hate. Surgical is not impactful enough as a functional GY hate.
I understand that is not GY hate, i was just asking in which matchups Spellbomb is much better than Surgical. As far as i understand, it's only against dredge and storm. For the rest, a Surgical can be as good or even better in some situations:
- vs control, responding to a Snapcaster targeting a cryptic
- vs hollow one, responding to the phoenix/bloodghast ability
- vs mardu pyro, when a kommand tries to return a bedlam or removing lingering souls.
Those are just examples ofc - maybe the best situations for Surgical and for other situations is simply worse.
And I don't agree that the Spellbomb is better than Surgical against KCI. I feel that removing their pieces of the combo is much better (some versions only have a pyrite spellbomb as a wincon, but even getting a Scrap Trawler would be way better than just removing the GY).
I agree, in general, but I feel that Leyline is simply the most powerful GY hate effect we have access to that doesn't screw our gameplan over. Nihil Spellbomb can be decent, but a one-off effect rather than a static one is often just not good enough.
I don't think the "pitch it to Looting" argument magically makes Leyline good, I just think that it offsets the downside of Leyline enough to make running it for graveyard matchups - which do come up - the best option, rather than less effective hate pieces.
There are good and valid arguments for both Leyline and Spellbomb. Leyline is great when in the opening hand and a terrible draw. Spellbomb, when it's not the best draw, at least can replace itself. Leyline doesn't remove the current GY (so delve creatures/recurrent threats can still be played/used). The Spellbomb is a one-off efffect (like you said) and Leyline just stays around until opponent deals with it. But imo, the biggest point in favor of Spellbomb is that you can have 2 in the sideboard and with it have a decent gy hate, while for Leyline you need at least 3 (maybe even 4) slots so you have a decent chance to get it in the opening hand. But in the end, it will come down to which one we prefer.
You have to threat surgical as a combo hate, not a GY hate. Surgical is not impactful enough as a functional GY hate.
I understand that is not GY hate, i was just asking in which matchups Spellbomb is much better than Surgical. As far as i understand, it's only against dredge and storm. For the rest, a Surgical can be as good or even better in some situations:
- vs control, responding to a Snapcaster targeting a cryptic
- vs hollow one, responding to the phoenix/bloodghast ability
- vs mardu pyro, when a kommand tries to return a bedlam or removing lingering souls.
Those are just examples ofc - maybe the best situations for Surgical and for other situations is simply worse.
And I don't agree that the Spellbomb is better than Surgical against KCI. I feel that removing their pieces of the combo is much better (some versions only have a pyrite spellbomb as a wincon, but even getting a Scrap Trawler would be way better than just removing the GY).
Against Control, you can also just topdeck it if you get beaten up by Colonnades or face Teferi/Jace.
Against Hollow One, you can also just face a fast delve threat or their most potent threat: Flameblade Adept, while you would need a removal spell (Spellbomb cantrips) or would have been able to prevent the delve threat from coming down)
Against Mardu, Spellbomb can ensure that your opponent isn't able to cast a potential topdecked reveler the next turn.
These are all counterexamples which are more common than your situations described. And here Spellbomb is just better as it cantrips or exiles the whole GY.
I think your situations are too specific, and I don't think you will surgical always when you potentially can blowout your opponent. I am thinking in a more general way and more common/simpler situations suggest that Spellbomb is overall safer, more powerful or not a bad topdeck since it cantrips.
You can run Surgical, but I think I would be careful about its use as you often don't get into your explained situations. And like I said, I for example wouldn't even bring in Surgical against Control.
Recently I have had problems against UW control, specifically the new version with Jace and Teferi and 5+ wrath effects. I can't maintain some constant pressure and after the first planes resolves. What I have done most of the time is play only half of Lingering Souls, but he just ignore it and keep developing. Sometimes a pyro with a couple of spells, but then comes the wrath. G2 and G3 are even harder with RIP getting ride of flashbacks.
Sometimes a blood moon can steal a game, but they just search for basics most of the time to prevent life loss against unknown opponent.
I tried to include Fulminator Mage and Hazoret on the side beyond the LotV, but it did not have that much effect. Nahiri or even Koth would be too weird?
I am on 1/1 Dreadbore/Terminate split, maybe 2 Dreadbore?
What was your SB plan against KCI? I think the matchup should not be that difficult actually, between discard, removal, GY hate and Kambal the matchup feels okay to me.
KCI is actually a deck I still could not beat with Mardu. We do have discard, removal, GY hate and Kambal, but they have trawler/retriever/buried ruin to get back things we discarded. But both times I played against KCI the card that felt like the one that won the game was Inventors' Fair. My opponent was able to search for another KCI after I discarded the first one on G1 once, and also tutored Wurmcoil Engine on G2 more than once.
What was your SB plan against KCI? I think the matchup should not be that difficult actually, between discard, removal, GY hate and Kambal the matchup feels okay to me.
KCI is actually a deck I still could not beat with Mardu. We do have discard, removal, GY hate and Kambal, but they have trawler/retriever/buried ruin to get back things we discarded. But both times I played against KCI the card that felt like the one that won the game was Inventors' Fair. My opponent was able to search for another KCI after I discarded the first one on G1 once, and also tutored Wurmcoil Engine on G2 more than once.
Hi guys! I am new here and i just started playing mardu pyro. I am learning a lot of things just by reading from this thread. Thanks guys. Hopefully i’ll put in some good mtgo results with the deck.
Hello everyone. I have been following this deck for sometime since mid 2017 and have loved seeing it evolution to what it is now. It seems to be a mardu version of jeskai. I play jeskai tempo (geist/queller version) and love the deck very much so I feel this is essentially the same deck type and style. Though I feel jeskai tempo maybe a little more powerful due to snapcaster mage and the burn capability but thats my personal opinion. I feel however that mardu has more of a "get out of control" aspect to it and the "oops i win" blood moon plan. Which I like.
In my mission to build a modern deck collection I will be building this deck next. Though I have a few questions Id like answered by you experienced mardu players.
Here is the list I am planning on building. It is pretty stock.
Youll notice two things here the 2 XX and no lands.
I am pretty happy with this maindeck and would like to have these 2 spots for perhaps LoTV, LTLH, a 1/1 split of each, 2 manamorphose, 2 lightning helix, or 2 extra fatal push, terminate, brutality, k-command. What would you guys use here?
Secondly, i have noticed many players being stuck with lingering souls in hand with moon out and no white mana. I do not like this at all and have seen it often resulting in a loss. I want the optimal mana base including 1 plains to mitigate this issue.
Their lists are extremely similar with just a difference in number of individual spells and two manamorphose for Nathan.
I do feel that the inclusion of plains quite possible helped Micheal achieve 1st place (though this is indeed speculation but one made from hours of game play observation)
So how should I build the mana base? Is the inclusion of blackcleave cliffs necessary? why not dragon skull summit instead so it doesnt enter tapped later on? and if i were to copy micheal fergusons list could i replace the verdant catacombs with something like blackcleave cliffs or dragon skull summit?
I think the mana base for this deck is very interesting especially because it is in my opinion the most complicated and crucial component of the deck to get right due to the mainboard moon. I dont see enough players hard cast lingering souls and I feel its a crime as when paired with a pyromancer the value is insane.
Thank you in advanced for any replies, and comments you guys have done awesome work in the evolution of this deck.
Hello everyone. I have been following this deck for sometime since mid 2017 and have loved seeing it evolution to what it is now. It seems to be a mardu version of jeskai. I play jeskai tempo (geist/queller version) and love the deck very much so I feel this is essentially the same deck type and style. Though I feel jeskai tempo maybe a little more powerful due to snapcaster mage and the burn capability but thats my personal opinion. I feel however that mardu has more of a "get out of control" aspect to it and the "oops i win" blood moon plan. Which I like.
In my mission to build a modern deck collection I will be building this deck next. Though I have a few questions Id like answered by you experienced mardu players.
Here is the list I am planning on building. It is pretty stock.
Youll notice two things here the 2 XX and no lands.
I am pretty happy with this maindeck and would like to have these 2 spots for perhaps LoTV, LTLH, a 1/1 split of each, 2 manamorphose, 2 lightning helix, or 2 extra fatal push, terminate, brutality, k-command. What would you guys use here?
Secondly, i have noticed many players being stuck with lingering souls in hand with moon out and no white mana. I do not like this at all and have seen it often resulting in a loss. I want the optimal mana base including 1 plains to mitigate this issue.
Their lists are extremely similar with just a difference in number of individual spells and two manamorphose for Nathan.
I do feel that the inclusion of plains quite possible helped Micheal achieve 1st place (though this is indeed speculation but one made from hours of game play observation)
So how should I build the mana base? Is the inclusion of blackcleave cliffs necessary? why not dragon skull summit instead so it doesnt enter tapped later on? and if i were to copy micheal fergusons list could i replace the verdant catacombs with something like blackcleave cliffs or dragon skull summit?
I think the mana base for this deck is very interesting especially because it is in my opinion the most complicated and crucial component of the deck to get right due to the mainboard moon. I dont see enough players hard cast lingering souls and I feel its a crime as when paired with a pyromancer the value is insane.
Thank you in advanced for any replies, and comments you guys have done awesome work in the evolution of this deck.
The two spots you have blank are flex dependent on your meta and preferred playstyle. I personally fill them with 1 Liliana of the Veil and a 3rd Kolaghan's Command. Adding a 3rd Push/Brutality/terminate/blood moon or 2nd Dreadbore or either liliana is acceptable as well if you prefer.
Not having access to white mana under blood moon is a tiny bit annoying, but we so rarely cast lingering souls from our hand that it's a non-issue. Dump it with faithless looting and flash it back. If you want a singleton plains you can, but it's sub optimal since lingering souls is the only reason to want a plains. (If you bring in white cards from the sideboard, be it Wear//Tear or Kambal, the first card you board out is the blood moons.)
Blackcleave cliffs is sadly necessary for the deck because we need to be able to cast a spell on turn 1, and two spells on turn 2. We need to have lands that come in untapped in the early game, and for what it does there's nothing better. Usually once we get to 4 lands we can safely discard additonal lands we draw, either to looting or to Reveler's wheel effect - this means the drawback of blackcleave cliffs is largely irrelevant. Dragonskull summit CAN be used as a budget replacement in a bind, but having tested it you can only get away with 2 at most before it starts to make otherwise good hands unkeepable. If you have 0 cliffs I would advocate replacing them with a 3rd blood crypt, a 2nd sacred foundry, an extra mountain and an extra swamp. Nathan's manabase is "stock" plus or minus one Arid Mesa/Marsh flats as available. We want most if not all of our fetches to be able to grab swamps.
While the dream of being able to cast and flashback a lingering souls with YP in play is so big, the fact remains that we often don't have the window or the time to get to 7 mana and do all that in a single turn, and rather often we need to be able to respond to pyromancer getting killed as soon as our opponent has priority to do so to at least get 1-2 tokens off him. It can happen, but we shouldn't force it when we don't need to. Blood Moon is also a card we need to pick when we want to deploy, or even if it's worth the time to run it out in the first place. It's for sure powerful, but there's more decks than you'd think where it's better of just being a free discard for looting.
Hope this helps.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Pretty much everything important has been said, but I want to add a little something.
Whether you want the basic plains comes down to your playstyle and what you prefer overall. However, consider that:
Typically you would run either 2 or 3 Blood Moon main.
You can run anywhere between 0-2 Manamorphose in the deck.
So the less BM you run the less you want the basic plains and the more Manamorphose you run the less you want a basic plains.
I personally would generally say if you run 2 BM and 1 Manamorphose, you are fine without it. If you run 3 BM main and no Manamorphose I would play it. Anything in between basically comes down to your preference.
Concerning your last 2 spots in the deck, I would 100 % at least add the third KCommand. I personally consider 3 KCommand pretty stock right now. I would not go below that number. For the last spot you can run Manamorphose, or a Lili PWs (whichever you prefer) or alternatively, you can reevaluate the need for 2 terminates in addition to the dreadbore. Typically I am fine with 2 slots filled up by a mix of dreadbore/terminate (either 1/1 split or 2/0 split in one favor). That would give you another possible slot if you feel you want Manamorphose AND a Lili PW, or simply a third BM.
How we're feeling about Leyline of the Void in the sidebaord ?
I've come to realise that my local meta has been shifting HEAVILLY towards graveyard decks. out of the (on average) 16-ish players we have every week, I've conclude that there consistently are about:
Which is easilly half of more of the entire meta. Which has lead me to believe that I defnetly need a more powerful grave-hating strategy coming from my sideboard other than just a spellbomb or two + a Rakdos charm. Leyline of the Void is used in quite an ammount of the lists I've seen, so I am wondering about trying it out.
So I wanted to ask, how we're feeling about it here ? Thinking about the card, I've come up with many good reasons to play it and reasons not to play it in the Mardu shell:
Seems good cause:
-> It is great because we're a Faithless Looting deck, so after getting the "opening hand" leyline we can quite sometimes turn the downside of the Leylines of "bad top-decks" into better ones with our cycling. Making the strategy hurt us less than it would to other decks.
-> Leyline is an enchantment, and the more of them we put on play, the more of the "anti-enchantment" side-board of our opponent will be used to take it out, which might increase the chance of our Blood Moons to sit. (In matches where we keep those.)
-> The likeability is 57% to get it in our opening hand. And a 40+% after we mull. So in theory, its fairly consistent at working.
Seems bad cause:
-> Bad top-deck mid-late game most of the time.
-> Its not a sorcery/instant. I'm afraid that adding 4x Enchancments into the deck could make it clunk up a bit in regards of the Revelers, unless I'd be trimming BloodMoons for it... Has anyone tested it out to see if the deck still functions decently well ?
Some extra questions:
In case I decide to run the Leylines on my SB ... Do you think it is a good card against Jeskai/UW strategies !? It shuts down their Azcanta and Snapcaster Mage. Those are only 2 cards, but almost always are the 2 cards we lose to (From my experience we usually either lose to Azcanta out-grinding us, or Snapcaster making ridiculous Command/Wipe plays). I'm a bit unsure if it is worth it or not. On a good side, vs, Jeskai they're most likelly bringing some hate for our BloodMoons, and if they have to destroy both our Leylines and Bloodmooons of enchancements, its likelly they wont have an answer for them all. Not to mention that I feel like the "bad top deck" downside is less impactful in a grindy matchup as we're surelly gonna get to 4-lands eventually there and there is plenty of time to unclunk.
__________________________________
Another thing I've been considering about my sideboard:
Do I really want 2x Wear/Tears ?
I've been finding little use for those, as they arent that exciting vs. KCI, Not that powerful vs. Tron, and I have honestly not been seeing any Affinity latelly. Also, vs. Hollow one bringing strict artifact hate has been a bit hit-or-miss since they may or may not kill us with a Hollow one.
Most of the time I've been using my Wear/Tears as a preventive sideboarding when I expect a "Rest in Peace" but I've also not been seeing many of those decks, as the only white decks I see consistently also use graveyard and they'd be shutting down their 2 best cards in the MU.
I've been flirting with switching them for Anguished Unmaking, at least one of. It can fill the same role in a way, but its way more broad, and it deals with planeswalkers which can be very important vs UWx decks, Tron, and the likes.
What you guys think ?
Are people still running 2x wear/tears ? Been happy about it ?
are there any other creatures this deck can run as a 1 or 2 of apart from hazoret, and rabble master? Maybe some more top end? Like olivia voldaren, or falkenwrath aristocrat, or perhaps a brimaz?
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Modern RUAffinityUR GMono Green StompyG CEldrazi TronC URWJeskai GeistWRU WRBoros BurnRW BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Mostly for funsies. I like to add a very very small spin to the modern decks I build without compromising effectiveness or deck cohesion but is still a powerful card that can blow out the opponent such as in my jeskai geist build I run 1 of steel of the godhead. Its obviously not at all common and i know why but if you stick it on geist it is often game as the combo is very powerful and has indeed won me many games. All of my decks are like that I add 1-2 cards that can lead to fun wins without compromising the decks overall effectiveness TOO much. Its just for fun mainly but when your opponent doesnt expect these things they can be a competitive edge so im just asking what other powerful creatures can be added as 1 or 2 ofs to give the deck a spin or surprise factor.
Back in the days where Mardu was a bad deck, Butcher saw some play, which helped mitigating the X/1 issue and establishing a faster clock. However, its somewhat weak in general. I was not a fan back then. I would rather play Olivia or PKN in that spot. Or simply a second Hazoret. I feel Hazoret is mostly a much better card than Butcher, because often you would want to sac a token in order to give him haste, which essentially means its a bad hazoret.
Think about it this way: If you are looting into Leyline its pretty much a forced discard. You have no choice. I actually much prefer looting into all live cards and getting the choice over which card now benefits me the most. Either way its card disadvantage anyway, and discarding Leyline doesn't help you anyways. I think it is a little biased since we tend to think badly about discarding say a bolt which could be useful at times compared to discarding a worthless leyline. However, what you forget here is that if you looting and draw into Leyline and a useful card looting effective becomes: Draw one card and discard one card. Leyline basically just gets milled, since its a forced discard. Now I think Draw one and discard one is just worse than draw 2 and discard 2 since you have less options to choose from.
I don't think the "pitch it to Looting" argument magically makes Leyline good, I just think that it offsets the downside of Leyline enough to make running it for graveyard matchups - which do come up - the best option, rather than less effective hate pieces.
I understand that is not GY hate, i was just asking in which matchups Spellbomb is much better than Surgical. As far as i understand, it's only against dredge and storm. For the rest, a Surgical can be as good or even better in some situations:
- vs control, responding to a Snapcaster targeting a cryptic
- vs hollow one, responding to the phoenix/bloodghast ability
- vs mardu pyro, when a kommand tries to return a bedlam or removing lingering souls.
Those are just examples ofc - maybe the best situations for Surgical and for other situations is simply worse.
And I don't agree that the Spellbomb is better than Surgical against KCI. I feel that removing their pieces of the combo is much better (some versions only have a pyrite spellbomb as a wincon, but even getting a Scrap Trawler would be way better than just removing the GY).
There are good and valid arguments for both Leyline and Spellbomb. Leyline is great when in the opening hand and a terrible draw. Spellbomb, when it's not the best draw, at least can replace itself. Leyline doesn't remove the current GY (so delve creatures/recurrent threats can still be played/used). The Spellbomb is a one-off efffect (like you said) and Leyline just stays around until opponent deals with it. But imo, the biggest point in favor of Spellbomb is that you can have 2 in the sideboard and with it have a decent gy hate, while for Leyline you need at least 3 (maybe even 4) slots so you have a decent chance to get it in the opening hand. But in the end, it will come down to which one we prefer.
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesAgainst Control, you can also just topdeck it if you get beaten up by Colonnades or face Teferi/Jace.
Against Hollow One, you can also just face a fast delve threat or their most potent threat: Flameblade Adept, while you would need a removal spell (Spellbomb cantrips) or would have been able to prevent the delve threat from coming down)
Against Mardu, Spellbomb can ensure that your opponent isn't able to cast a potential topdecked reveler the next turn.
These are all counterexamples which are more common than your situations described. And here Spellbomb is just better as it cantrips or exiles the whole GY.
I think your situations are too specific, and I don't think you will surgical always when you potentially can blowout your opponent. I am thinking in a more general way and more common/simpler situations suggest that Spellbomb is overall safer, more powerful or not a bad topdeck since it cantrips.
You can run Surgical, but I think I would be careful about its use as you often don't get into your explained situations. And like I said, I for example wouldn't even bring in Surgical against Control.
Sometimes a blood moon can steal a game, but they just search for basics most of the time to prevent life loss against unknown opponent.
I tried to include Fulminator Mage and Hazoret on the side beyond the LotV, but it did not have that much effect. Nahiri or even Koth would be too weird?
I am on 1/1 Dreadbore/Terminate split, maybe 2 Dreadbore?
Any advice for this MU?
KCI is actually a deck I still could not beat with Mardu. We do have discard, removal, GY hate and Kambal, but they have trawler/retriever/buried ruin to get back things we discarded. But both times I played against KCI the card that felt like the one that won the game was Inventors' Fair. My opponent was able to search for another KCI after I discarded the first one on G1 once, and also tutored Wurmcoil Engine on G2 more than once.
4x Leyline of the void would help
In my mission to build a modern deck collection I will be building this deck next. Though I have a few questions Id like answered by you experienced mardu players.
Here is the list I am planning on building. It is pretty stock.
4x young pyromancer
4x Bedlam reveler
Spells
4x Faithless looting
4x lingering souls
4x lightning bolt
4x inquisition of kozilek
3x thoughtseize
2x collective brutality
2x terminate
2x fatal push
2x kolaghan's command
1x dreadbore
2x XX
2x Blood Moon
Youll notice two things here the 2 XX and no lands.
I am pretty happy with this maindeck and would like to have these 2 spots for perhaps LoTV, LTLH, a 1/1 split of each, 2 manamorphose, 2 lightning helix, or 2 extra fatal push, terminate, brutality, k-command. What would you guys use here?
Secondly, i have noticed many players being stuck with lingering souls in hand with moon out and no white mana. I do not like this at all and have seen it often resulting in a loss. I want the optimal mana base including 1 plains to mitigate this issue.
Looking at these two mana bases
1x Arid Mesa
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
2x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Swamp
2x Verdant Catacombs
and
1x Arid Mesa
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Marsh Flats
3x Mountain
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Swamp
Their lists are extremely similar with just a difference in number of individual spells and two manamorphose for Nathan.
I do feel that the inclusion of plains quite possible helped Micheal achieve 1st place (though this is indeed speculation but one made from hours of game play observation)
So how should I build the mana base? Is the inclusion of blackcleave cliffs necessary? why not dragon skull summit instead so it doesnt enter tapped later on? and if i were to copy micheal fergusons list could i replace the verdant catacombs with something like blackcleave cliffs or dragon skull summit?
I think the mana base for this deck is very interesting especially because it is in my opinion the most complicated and crucial component of the deck to get right due to the mainboard moon. I dont see enough players hard cast lingering souls and I feel its a crime as when paired with a pyromancer the value is insane.
Thank you in advanced for any replies, and comments you guys have done awesome work in the evolution of this deck.
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
The two spots you have blank are flex dependent on your meta and preferred playstyle. I personally fill them with 1 Liliana of the Veil and a 3rd Kolaghan's Command. Adding a 3rd Push/Brutality/terminate/blood moon or 2nd Dreadbore or either liliana is acceptable as well if you prefer.
Not having access to white mana under blood moon is a tiny bit annoying, but we so rarely cast lingering souls from our hand that it's a non-issue. Dump it with faithless looting and flash it back. If you want a singleton plains you can, but it's sub optimal since lingering souls is the only reason to want a plains. (If you bring in white cards from the sideboard, be it Wear//Tear or Kambal, the first card you board out is the blood moons.)
Blackcleave cliffs is sadly necessary for the deck because we need to be able to cast a spell on turn 1, and two spells on turn 2. We need to have lands that come in untapped in the early game, and for what it does there's nothing better. Usually once we get to 4 lands we can safely discard additonal lands we draw, either to looting or to Reveler's wheel effect - this means the drawback of blackcleave cliffs is largely irrelevant. Dragonskull summit CAN be used as a budget replacement in a bind, but having tested it you can only get away with 2 at most before it starts to make otherwise good hands unkeepable. If you have 0 cliffs I would advocate replacing them with a 3rd blood crypt, a 2nd sacred foundry, an extra mountain and an extra swamp. Nathan's manabase is "stock" plus or minus one Arid Mesa/Marsh flats as available. We want most if not all of our fetches to be able to grab swamps.
While the dream of being able to cast and flashback a lingering souls with YP in play is so big, the fact remains that we often don't have the window or the time to get to 7 mana and do all that in a single turn, and rather often we need to be able to respond to pyromancer getting killed as soon as our opponent has priority to do so to at least get 1-2 tokens off him. It can happen, but we shouldn't force it when we don't need to. Blood Moon is also a card we need to pick when we want to deploy, or even if it's worth the time to run it out in the first place. It's for sure powerful, but there's more decks than you'd think where it's better of just being a free discard for looting.
Hope this helps.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Whether you want the basic plains comes down to your playstyle and what you prefer overall. However, consider that:
Typically you would run either 2 or 3 Blood Moon main.
You can run anywhere between 0-2 Manamorphose in the deck.
So the less BM you run the less you want the basic plains and the more Manamorphose you run the less you want a basic plains.
I personally would generally say if you run 2 BM and 1 Manamorphose, you are fine without it. If you run 3 BM main and no Manamorphose I would play it. Anything in between basically comes down to your preference.
Concerning your last 2 spots in the deck, I would 100 % at least add the third KCommand. I personally consider 3 KCommand pretty stock right now. I would not go below that number. For the last spot you can run Manamorphose, or a Lili PWs (whichever you prefer) or alternatively, you can reevaluate the need for 2 terminates in addition to the dreadbore. Typically I am fine with 2 slots filled up by a mix of dreadbore/terminate (either 1/1 split or 2/0 split in one favor). That would give you another possible slot if you feel you want Manamorphose AND a Lili PW, or simply a third BM.
And yeah, Blackcleave is absolutely necessary.
I have a question:
How we're feeling about Leyline of the Void in the sidebaord ?
I've come to realise that my local meta has been shifting HEAVILLY towards graveyard decks. out of the (on average) 16-ish players we have every week, I've conclude that there consistently are about:
2-3x Hollow ones.
1x KCI
0-1x Storm
1-2x Grixis Shadow
0-1x Traverse Shadow
1-3x Mardu Pyromancers.
1-2x Jeksai Control
1x Dredge.
Which is easilly half of more of the entire meta. Which has lead me to believe that I defnetly need a more powerful grave-hating strategy coming from my sideboard other than just a spellbomb or two + a Rakdos charm. Leyline of the Void is used in quite an ammount of the lists I've seen, so I am wondering about trying it out.
So I wanted to ask, how we're feeling about it here ? Thinking about the card, I've come up with many good reasons to play it and reasons not to play it in the Mardu shell:
Seems good cause:
-> It is great because we're a Faithless Looting deck, so after getting the "opening hand" leyline we can quite sometimes turn the downside of the Leylines of "bad top-decks" into better ones with our cycling. Making the strategy hurt us less than it would to other decks.
-> Leyline is an enchantment, and the more of them we put on play, the more of the "anti-enchantment" side-board of our opponent will be used to take it out, which might increase the chance of our Blood Moons to sit. (In matches where we keep those.)
-> The likeability is 57% to get it in our opening hand. And a 40+% after we mull. So in theory, its fairly consistent at working.
Seems bad cause:
-> Bad top-deck mid-late game most of the time.
-> Its not a sorcery/instant. I'm afraid that adding 4x Enchancments into the deck could make it clunk up a bit in regards of the Revelers, unless I'd be trimming BloodMoons for it... Has anyone tested it out to see if the deck still functions decently well ?
Some extra questions:
In case I decide to run the Leylines on my SB ... Do you think it is a good card against Jeskai/UW strategies !? It shuts down their Azcanta and Snapcaster Mage. Those are only 2 cards, but almost always are the 2 cards we lose to (From my experience we usually either lose to Azcanta out-grinding us, or Snapcaster making ridiculous Command/Wipe plays). I'm a bit unsure if it is worth it or not. On a good side, vs, Jeskai they're most likelly bringing some hate for our BloodMoons, and if they have to destroy both our Leylines and Bloodmooons of enchancements, its likelly they wont have an answer for them all. Not to mention that I feel like the "bad top deck" downside is less impactful in a grindy matchup as we're surelly gonna get to 4-lands eventually there and there is plenty of time to unclunk.
__________________________________
Another thing I've been considering about my sideboard:
Do I really want 2x Wear/Tears ?
I've been finding little use for those, as they arent that exciting vs. KCI, Not that powerful vs. Tron, and I have honestly not been seeing any Affinity latelly. Also, vs. Hollow one bringing strict artifact hate has been a bit hit-or-miss since they may or may not kill us with a Hollow one.
Most of the time I've been using my Wear/Tears as a preventive sideboarding when I expect a "Rest in Peace" but I've also not been seeing many of those decks, as the only white decks I see consistently also use graveyard and they'd be shutting down their 2 best cards in the MU.
I've been flirting with switching them for Anguished Unmaking, at least one of. It can fill the same role in a way, but its way more broad, and it deals with planeswalkers which can be very important vs UWx decks, Tron, and the likes.
What you guys think ?
Are people still running 2x wear/tears ? Been happy about it ?
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
You can Olivia, however, why do you feel the need to run more top end? Mardu Pyro is one of the grindiest decks in modern atm.
Has anyone considered Tymaret, the murder king or butcher of the horde?
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
I think i will be putting 1 butcher in my list for the funsies. Actually seems pretty good as a finisher or a emergency lifegain button.
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB