The strength of this deck is, especially agaisnt Jund, that you can turn your dead draws into gas by flashbacking Looting in the late game. This is incredibly valuable. That way you will more or less guarantee good todecks, wheras Jund can only play Bob and other than that build the deck to leverage bad topdecks. Its the big problem that I have right now with Jund. Mardu operates way better in leveraging bad topdecks with its Looting engine. And Reveler is just amazing overall.
With your list, which is similar to mine, I would board like the following against Jund:
I don't like BM in that matchup as it can basically do nothing, Molten rain at least destroys a land guaranteed, but its most targeted for Ravines and Treetops.
I went 3-1-1 at my local GS at FNM yesterday. Overall I am a bit disappointed, because I did throw a game by a simple mistake and I drew against Affinity basically due to BM.
Round 1 I played against Ponza, which I destroyed 2-0. I think this matchup is quite easy. Kill their dork is easy, multiple discard is backbreaking, BM is not doing anything and LD is not really effective at all since we can totally operate on 2-3 lands only.
Round 2 I played a mirror, which I threw. This matchup is such a grindfest, its amazing and exhausting. I believe its even grindier than Jund mirrors easily. We both exchanged resources and went down to a low lifetotal. I ended up being on 6 life I played Reveler and exiled the opponents GY with a SPellbomb, which prevented that he could also play a Reveler. My opponent topdecked Souls and cast front plus backside. He then had 5 tokens total (one was left from a previous one). I fetched end of turn and realized I didn't have anymore lands to fetch with Marsh Flats, I only had Mountains. So I went down to 5 life. I drwe for turn and was forced to fetch again, that time with Bloodstained Mire to be able to cast Souls also front + backside. I attacked for a huge hit with Reveler. Unfortunately though, since my opponent had 5 tokens and I 4, he could attack me down to 3 next turn and bolt me for lethal. I would have survived with 1 life if I had not fetched with that Marsh flats and then would have been able to kill him next turn. Well, yeah, thats that. With Looting, one must be really causious about which lands got milled already.
Round 3 I won against Burn 2-1. Matchup is quite easy, straight and forward. One time he got me with a todecked Boros Charm, but that was not preventable so its ok.
Round 4 Draw against Affinity. In this game I easily would have won, but I didn't draw more Lootings, only drew lands and was stuck with 2 Souls in hand bc I had cast BM. I think BM is not worth it to run against Affinity. I want to be able to cast SOuls when I topdeck it, I think this is way stronger than shutting down 1-2 manlands.
Round 5 I won against UW Control. I think Control matchups are very favoured. Discard helps to get rid of sweepers and Souls help to not overextend into sweepers. LoTV as backup to get rid of cards for my opponents hand is icing on the cake.
Overall, I learned pretty interesting stuff for playing the deck. I also decided to go back to 1 Manamorphose since it kinda underperformed and add the second CB back in. In the SB I cut a CB for a Kambal right now.
The strength of this deck is, especially agaisnt Jund, that you can turn your dead draws into gas by flashbacking Looting in the late game. This is incredibly valuable. That way you will more or less guarantee good todecks, wheras Jund can only play Bob and other than that build the deck to leverage bad topdecks. Its the big problem that I have right now with Jund. Mardu operates way better in leveraging bad topdecks with its Looting engine. And Reveler is just amazing overall.
With your list, which is similar to mine, I would board like the following against Jund:
I don't like BM in that matchup as it can basically do nothing, Molten rain at least destroys a land guaranteed, but its most targeted for Ravines and Treetops.
Blood Moon deals with Ravines and Treetops and gets even stronger with Molten Rains targeting their basic lands.
I also wonder if cutting 2 CB is better then just cutting 4 IoK? CB can kill bob and bbe in addition to hand disruption.
I am not sure if I want to go fully on the manadenial plan, I like to grind more and have better topdecks. Molten Rain helps with Reveler and destroys a land rather than changing it into a mountain. Therefore I think Molten Rain is better than BM. And BM alone is pretty unexciting I think. And I don't want to rely on 2 card combos pretty much.
CB over IOK can be true, might want to reconsider what IOK hits that CB doesn't and compare if its worth it to have a more costly discard spell over the cheaper one.
Lingering souls seems stronger, but I think this card is debatably stronger than Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, and is maybe main deck-able? Or am I being too optimistic? The WW is a little steep
For double white on turn 3 you need 18-19 white sources. Most lists run LoTV also. I think, if you rebuild the whole manabase for it, you will harm yourself more than do you good. A simple example for that would be the Burn matchup, as your manabase will be way more painful. Also Blood Moon as a plan will be weakened significantly.
Mardu already has a good engine when it comes to tokens. I think it doesn't do anything that the deck is potentially lacking. Why adding more tokens to a deck that already is weak to sweepers? I think you have to look at that on the whole spectrum.
2-1-1 today with Mardu Pyro. I played the same 75 as FlyingDelver's list, with 2 LoTV main and Hazoret in the side, the only difference was that I had an EE instead of the Surgical Extraction, everything else was the same. Here's how the matches went:
Round 1, Jund, 2-0. I saw again how the Mardu Pyro deck can stabilize well. My opponent had a single tarmogoyf that got out of bolt range, so I was able to bolt any Dark Confidants on sight. I was able to chain 2 revelers together, draw into fatal push to get rid of the tarmogoyf, then take over the game from there. Game 2 he drew multiple lands while I was able to swing in with Hazoret and he had no answer.
Round 2, Mardu Pyromancer, draw. I have no idea how to side for the mirror. Does anyone have thoughts on this? Both of us had multiple lingering souls in the graveyard and were trading off tokens. My opponent was able to get Reveler first that I couldn't deal with. Game 2 on the play it was again close but after the dust settled I was left with a single Elemental token that I was able to bash in with. We didn't have enough time for game 3 and so we drew.
Round 3, Ponza, 1-2. Game 1 he had 3 molten rains and a bunch of BBE's, couldn't deal with them. Game 2 I stuck a LoTV that took over the game. Game 3 was close. My opponent had 1 card in hand, a tireless tracker that was growing, and a BBE. I casted LoTV and decided to -2 to stabilize the board a bit more, but my opponent had an Inferno Titan in hand that I should have anticipated, considering it wasn't a land and if it was land destruction probably would have casted it.
Round 4, Mono-G Tron, 2-1. Game 1 I drew into 3 lingering souls while my opponent had 2 Ugins and a World Breaker. I almost stabilized until they casted Ulamog and that was it. Game 2 it was a grind but LoTV was what carried me that game. I was able to ultimate her to get rid of Tron lands, and then bashed in with Revelers. Game 3 on the draw my starting hand was 1 IoK, 2 TS, 1 Molten Rain, 2 Lands, and Reveler. My opponent never had tron that game and couldn't cast anything. I drew into a 2nd Molten Rain and a LoTV to really seal the deal.
Thoughts on the list:
I was still in 2 manamorphose, 1 brutality in the main. Manamorphoses were almost always relevant in reducing the cost of Reveler, and it helped me cast the front half of lingering souls a couple times. Still not sure on manamorphose.
I don't think I saw LoTV in any of my game 1's. I still really like Hazoret and am trying to find a place for her in the main.
It was one of my first times playing G/R Ponza, so I'm not sure how to side for that, also it was my first time playing the mirror and really wasn't sure how to side. If anyone has tips for those 2 matchups that would be great. Thanks for reading!
For the mirror I put in graveyard hate, extraction and kambal, maybe also direfleet daredevil and EE if you play one. I put out maybe some thoughtseize, a dreadbore/terminate (dependin on how many you play). But I am the guy that boards more in than out, ending with a 62 card deck then maybe
Has anyone deeper experience playing against Hollow One? I can't decide whether I want to keep LoTV, Push or IOK against them. Or which of those cards are the worst. Siding out BM is a no brainer, but can't decide for the others. I think LoTV is overall pretty bad, but we can deal pretty easily with the smaller creatures anyway, and we only running 1 Terminate and 1 Dreadbore most likely, makes me want to leave LoTV in to have some more hardremoval for their delve threats.
As a rule of thumb, I usually board out LotV against all decks containing Bloodghast. I don't like her against Hollow One because in addition to the Vampire she is also weak to opposing Phoenixes in Hand and Battlefield.
Of course, like in Jund, I board out all copies no questions asked. But in Mardu the thing is not so easy I think. Jund has more ways to kill a delve threat than Mardu, and Jund has worse ways to deal with Bloodghasts and Phoenixes. Both those factors make LoTV better in Mardu against Hollow One than LoTV in Jund against Hollow One.
Well, compared to Jund you are right, yes, Liliana is definitely better against Hollow One in this deck. But I am not yet convinced whether she is actually good enough. I like discard against the deck, I don't like Push though.
Going forward, many Hollow One players will include Sacred Foundry alongside Souls in their deck, so I would keep that in mind when thinking about Liliana.
I am actually curious whether somebody ever tried a split of Veil and Last Hope because I actually like Last Hope's abilities on paper in this deck.
I played LtLH in the SB once, she is in general really good, but its more goodness against the strategies where we already are good against. LoTV is more important imo since it helps killing bigger threats.
Overall, my team finished 4-4 but my personal record was 3-2-3, with the 3 draws being games that did not need to be finished due to the results achieved by my teammates.
My matchups were as follows:
Round 1 - Bant Knightfall: This game didn't finish, we were 1-1 going into 3. I feel like the matchup is pretty even but we definitely have the resources to beat them down.
Round 2 - Dredge: I won this one in 3. He rolled me game 1 and couldn't contend with opening Leylines in games 2 & 3. I would fear this matchup more if I were still on the spellbomb plan, but it's honestly a cakewalk if you have the Leylines.
Round 3 - Blue Moon: This was an odd matchup. I feel favored as I already grab basic swamps early for my own Bloodmoon in game 1, but we had two odd non-games. The first one he got stuck on one land until I killed him, and the second I mulled to 4 after drawing 3 hands with no lands in them. The final game didn't even finish because my team mates wrapped it up quickly.
Round 4 - UR Pyromancer: This is traditionally a pretty bad matchup, but luckily for me my opponent was not on the Ancestral Visions plan and had prepared instead for other matchups. I beat him in two quickly.
Round 5 - Storm: I regret not packing a Kambal precisely for the matchup. I lose in 2, in the first he gets me for exactsies while I have lethal onboard. On the second I see a good hand with a sweeper and lootings but no Leyline, so I keep and eventually die to topdecking Leylines lol.
Round 6 - Jund: I have something like a 70% winrate versus Jund and know the matchup very well. Unfortunately game 1 he cascades into Lili Last Hope and I have one of those odd games where you draw a bunch of action but no clock so I just kind of durdle and die. Game two I turn 1 loot away double souls and beat him down in short order. We didn't get to finish the game because my teammates finished.
At this point we are knocked out of Day 2 contention but continue to play since we flew around the world for the event
Round 7 - Ad Nauseum: I win game 1 with immense pressure before he can get online. Game 2 I keep a discard heavy hand and he Leylines me, too bad. Game 3 I present a clock and get him to -3 off Unlife and then Wear//Tear it after combat for the kill.
Round 8 - Humans: I present a huge amount of tokens game 1 and shut him down off a slow start. Game 2 he beats me the turn before I can stablize. Game 3 I mull to 4 with the same situation about not seeing any lands, my opponent on the other hand hits three lands, double Lieutenants, double Mantis Rider, and triple Phantasmal Images, RIP.
Overall I had a swell time and all my opponents were fantastic folks. I was a bit disappointed in that the deck didn't feel like it ran very hot - I had a lot of bad opening hands, and I felt as if I had a good chance at taking down all my matchups if things had gone a bit better.
I am pro shaving IOK, but am not sure about TS. I think snagging delve threats if pretty important. I know they will likely shave Burning Inquiry against us anyway, which makes us having turn 1 discard less needed. However a turn 2 delve threat is still hard to answer, for which reason I am thinking to leave in TS.
I am in general a big fan of having 4 pieces of GY interaction in the SB with Mardu. Leyline of the Void is the best you can do with that slots regards to GY hate. Due to Looting, CB and LoTV, excess Voids aren't that big of a problem. However, like you said, we still need one copy in the opening hand for it to work. Thats my biggest problem with it. Spellbomb is far more flexible in that sense that you always can do somwthing with it when you draw it, and you don't need 4 copies of it to work. That also makes me cut down to 3 Spellbombs and add a Surgical, which is a weak GY hate card, but can be used against Tron in conjunction with Molten Rain, which I like, since I believe Tron is probably the hardest matchup of Mardu.
Leyline is really powerful, but I am not yet convinced that we need it personally. Hollow One is good and present, but not overly present atm. And to add, Leyline does not automatically win the game either. Thats also one reason why I like Spellbombs more.
With your list, which is similar to mine, I would board like the following against Jund:
-2 CB
-2 IOK
-1 BM
+1 EE
+1 Hazoret
+3 Molten Rain
I don't like BM in that matchup as it can basically do nothing, Molten rain at least destroys a land guaranteed, but its most targeted for Ravines and Treetops.
Round 1 I played against Ponza, which I destroyed 2-0. I think this matchup is quite easy. Kill their dork is easy, multiple discard is backbreaking, BM is not doing anything and LD is not really effective at all since we can totally operate on 2-3 lands only.
Round 2 I played a mirror, which I threw. This matchup is such a grindfest, its amazing and exhausting. I believe its even grindier than Jund mirrors easily. We both exchanged resources and went down to a low lifetotal. I ended up being on 6 life I played Reveler and exiled the opponents GY with a SPellbomb, which prevented that he could also play a Reveler. My opponent topdecked Souls and cast front plus backside. He then had 5 tokens total (one was left from a previous one). I fetched end of turn and realized I didn't have anymore lands to fetch with Marsh Flats, I only had Mountains. So I went down to 5 life. I drwe for turn and was forced to fetch again, that time with Bloodstained Mire to be able to cast Souls also front + backside. I attacked for a huge hit with Reveler. Unfortunately though, since my opponent had 5 tokens and I 4, he could attack me down to 3 next turn and bolt me for lethal. I would have survived with 1 life if I had not fetched with that Marsh flats and then would have been able to kill him next turn. Well, yeah, thats that. With Looting, one must be really causious about which lands got milled already.
Round 3 I won against Burn 2-1. Matchup is quite easy, straight and forward. One time he got me with a todecked Boros Charm, but that was not preventable so its ok.
Round 4 Draw against Affinity. In this game I easily would have won, but I didn't draw more Lootings, only drew lands and was stuck with 2 Souls in hand bc I had cast BM. I think BM is not worth it to run against Affinity. I want to be able to cast SOuls when I topdeck it, I think this is way stronger than shutting down 1-2 manlands.
Round 5 I won against UW Control. I think Control matchups are very favoured. Discard helps to get rid of sweepers and Souls help to not overextend into sweepers. LoTV as backup to get rid of cards for my opponents hand is icing on the cake.
Overall, I learned pretty interesting stuff for playing the deck. I also decided to go back to 1 Manamorphose since it kinda underperformed and add the second CB back in. In the SB I cut a CB for a Kambal right now.
Blood Moon deals with Ravines and Treetops and gets even stronger with Molten Rains targeting their basic lands.
I also wonder if cutting 2 CB is better then just cutting 4 IoK? CB can kill bob and bbe in addition to hand disruption.
CB over IOK can be true, might want to reconsider what IOK hits that CB doesn't and compare if its worth it to have a more costly discard spell over the cheaper one.
Lingering souls seems stronger, but I think this card is debatably stronger than Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, and is maybe main deck-able? Or am I being too optimistic? The WW is a little steep
BWModern Black/White Control
WGBOGGLES
Draft My Innistrad Cube!
Mardu already has a good engine when it comes to tokens. I think it doesn't do anything that the deck is potentially lacking. Why adding more tokens to a deck that already is weak to sweepers? I think you have to look at that on the whole spectrum.
And I think Gideon is way better than this Saga.
Round 1, Jund, 2-0. I saw again how the Mardu Pyro deck can stabilize well. My opponent had a single tarmogoyf that got out of bolt range, so I was able to bolt any Dark Confidants on sight. I was able to chain 2 revelers together, draw into fatal push to get rid of the tarmogoyf, then take over the game from there. Game 2 he drew multiple lands while I was able to swing in with Hazoret and he had no answer.
Round 2, Mardu Pyromancer, draw. I have no idea how to side for the mirror. Does anyone have thoughts on this? Both of us had multiple lingering souls in the graveyard and were trading off tokens. My opponent was able to get Reveler first that I couldn't deal with. Game 2 on the play it was again close but after the dust settled I was left with a single Elemental token that I was able to bash in with. We didn't have enough time for game 3 and so we drew.
Round 3, Ponza, 1-2. Game 1 he had 3 molten rains and a bunch of BBE's, couldn't deal with them. Game 2 I stuck a LoTV that took over the game. Game 3 was close. My opponent had 1 card in hand, a tireless tracker that was growing, and a BBE. I casted LoTV and decided to -2 to stabilize the board a bit more, but my opponent had an Inferno Titan in hand that I should have anticipated, considering it wasn't a land and if it was land destruction probably would have casted it.
Round 4, Mono-G Tron, 2-1. Game 1 I drew into 3 lingering souls while my opponent had 2 Ugins and a World Breaker. I almost stabilized until they casted Ulamog and that was it. Game 2 it was a grind but LoTV was what carried me that game. I was able to ultimate her to get rid of Tron lands, and then bashed in with Revelers. Game 3 on the draw my starting hand was 1 IoK, 2 TS, 1 Molten Rain, 2 Lands, and Reveler. My opponent never had tron that game and couldn't cast anything. I drew into a 2nd Molten Rain and a LoTV to really seal the deal.
Thoughts on the list:
It was one of my first times playing G/R Ponza, so I'm not sure how to side for that, also it was my first time playing the mirror and really wasn't sure how to side. If anyone has tips for those 2 matchups that would be great. Thanks for reading!
With my list I would do the following:
-2 LoTV
-1 Blood Moon
-4 IOK
+3 Spellbomb
+1 Surgical
+1 Hazoret
+2 Anger
Anger can be counterproductive but can be a way to comeback if you fall behind to much. Therefore I think its worth it.
Going forward, many Hollow One players will include Sacred Foundry alongside Souls in their deck, so I would keep that in mind when thinking about Liliana.
I am actually curious whether somebody ever tried a split of Veil and Last Hope because I actually like Last Hope's abilities on paper in this deck.
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Enchantment
2 Blood Moon
Land
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Manamorphose
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
Sorcery
4 Faithless Looting
3 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
2 Dreadbore
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Wear // Tear
2 Collective Brutality
3 Molten Rain
2 Anger of the Gods
Overall, my team finished 4-4 but my personal record was 3-2-3, with the 3 draws being games that did not need to be finished due to the results achieved by my teammates.
My matchups were as follows:
Round 1 - Bant Knightfall: This game didn't finish, we were 1-1 going into 3. I feel like the matchup is pretty even but we definitely have the resources to beat them down.
Round 2 - Dredge: I won this one in 3. He rolled me game 1 and couldn't contend with opening Leylines in games 2 & 3. I would fear this matchup more if I were still on the spellbomb plan, but it's honestly a cakewalk if you have the Leylines.
Round 3 - Blue Moon: This was an odd matchup. I feel favored as I already grab basic swamps early for my own Bloodmoon in game 1, but we had two odd non-games. The first one he got stuck on one land until I killed him, and the second I mulled to 4 after drawing 3 hands with no lands in them. The final game didn't even finish because my team mates wrapped it up quickly.
Round 4 - UR Pyromancer: This is traditionally a pretty bad matchup, but luckily for me my opponent was not on the Ancestral Visions plan and had prepared instead for other matchups. I beat him in two quickly.
Round 5 - Storm: I regret not packing a Kambal precisely for the matchup. I lose in 2, in the first he gets me for exactsies while I have lethal onboard. On the second I see a good hand with a sweeper and lootings but no Leyline, so I keep and eventually die to topdecking Leylines lol.
Round 6 - Jund: I have something like a 70% winrate versus Jund and know the matchup very well. Unfortunately game 1 he cascades into Lili Last Hope and I have one of those odd games where you draw a bunch of action but no clock so I just kind of durdle and die. Game two I turn 1 loot away double souls and beat him down in short order. We didn't get to finish the game because my teammates finished.
At this point we are knocked out of Day 2 contention but continue to play since we flew around the world for the event
Round 7 - Ad Nauseum: I win game 1 with immense pressure before he can get online. Game 2 I keep a discard heavy hand and he Leylines me, too bad. Game 3 I present a clock and get him to -3 off Unlife and then Wear//Tear it after combat for the kill.
Round 8 - Humans: I present a huge amount of tokens game 1 and shut him down off a slow start. Game 2 he beats me the turn before I can stablize. Game 3 I mull to 4 with the same situation about not seeing any lands, my opponent on the other hand hits three lands, double Lieutenants, double Mantis Rider, and triple Phantasmal Images, RIP.
Overall I had a swell time and all my opponents were fantastic folks. I was a bit disappointed in that the deck didn't feel like it ran very hot - I had a lot of bad opening hands, and I felt as if I had a good chance at taking down all my matchups if things had gone a bit better.
You mean the answers?
Leyline is really powerful, but I am not yet convinced that we need it personally. Hollow One is good and present, but not overly present atm. And to add, Leyline does not automatically win the game either. Thats also one reason why I like Spellbombs more.