So what’s the consensus of blood moon and manamorphose in the main?
Currently I have 2 Blood moon in a main. I know there are some matchups the card just offers us a free win against, but there are also plenty of times we either have to discard it, or play around it ourselves quite a bit, making it not the best turn 3 drop, which I imagine is the best time to drop it.
A lot of list I’ve seen doing well run at least 1 manamorphose, I’m thinking about cutting 1 of my 3 dreadbores for one.
Caleb Durward is playing the deck at SCG Milwaukee, which is great to see.
As for the Blood Moon question: I will keep playing them until they stop giving me free wins... or even just wins in general. Game 3 in Round 2 of the current SCG tournament is a good example of why I'll probably never cut Moons from my 75. The card gives you a lot of latitude in games that you'd otherwise not win.
I play only one Manamorphose at the moment. I don't like running any more than that, though - Mardu goes through cards so quickly with the Lootings and the Revellers, and so often grinds, that having a functionally 56 card deck can be a disadvantage because you're cutting removal for the Manamorphoses, which can leave you drawing dead in the late game.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Caleb Durward is playing the deck at SCG Milwaukee, which is great to see.
As for the Blood Moon question: I will keep playing them until they stop giving me free wins... or even just wins in general. Game 3 in Round 2 of the current SCG tournament is a good example of why I'll probably never cut Moons from my 75. The card gives you a lot of latitude in games that you'd otherwise not win.
I play only one Manamorphose at the moment. I don't like running any more than that, though - Mardu goes through cards so quickly with the Lootings and the Revellers, and so often grinds, that having a functionally 56 card deck can be a disadvantage because you're cutting removal for the Manamorphoses, which can leave you drawing dead in the late game.
I ask this time and again and I've never gotten a response from anyone: What matchups do you get "free" wins from?
I tried blood moon for a while and it has pretty much never been a card I want to see. It's a horrible topdeck, and it never comes down soon enough to actually interfere with our opponent's game plan if they're paying any kind of attention. At best it's an anti-tron card, which is fails at because we do not have ways to use the opening to get a win before they start hardcasting wurmcoil engines and karns. Damping Sphere is the same thing - it slows down tron but doesn't actually stop them from beating us. Sphere at least might be useful as an anti-storm card and warrant a board slot, but blood moon doesn't do that. Liliana of the Veil on the other hand actually can rescue us from bad board states and help close out good ones. She's what you'd replace blood moon for, and is almost always immediately relevant.
Manamorphose is a chance to find gas, as well as a free pyromancer/prowess trigger - plus it enables us to get out from opposing blood moons to cast black spells if we need to. It's not worth playing 4 copies, but 2-3 is fine because you'd otherwise be playing a 20th land and a 6th removal spell in all likelyhood. Milling yourself should NEVER be a concern except against the grindiest of control decks.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
So what’s the consensus of blood moon and manamorphose in the main?
Currently I have 2 Blood moon in a main. I know there are some matchups the card just offers us a free win against, but there are also plenty of times we either have to discard it, or play around it ourselves quite a bit, making it not the best turn 3 drop, which I imagine is the best time to drop it.
A lot of list I’ve seen doing well run at least 1 manamorphose, I’m thinking about cutting 1 of my 3 dreadbores for one.
Thoughts on these cards?
I always dislike bloodmoon when I draw it... But yesterday I played against boogles online. A very horrible matchup in general (pre board at the very least). He played t1 boogle, t2 his carddraw creature (forgot the name) and t3 auras on the boogle, I played t3 bloodmoon and he was completely out of the game. He couldn't cast any spells and his 3/3 boogle was easy to handle... Those situations are lucky and rare but they exist . Nontheless I will try lists without bloodmoon and with 2 manamorphose in the future :)Since UW is also attacking opponents manabases People play more basics nowadays.
The "free wins" I get from Blood Moon usually occur when they restrict the opponent's ability to make plays due to restricting their mana. I'm a fan of it against any deck without too many basics, and I find it useful against decks with manlands, too. There are definitely matches where I board it out, but I'm never too upset if I draw it if only because I always try to keep ways to pitch things available. The idea that Blood Moon doesn't interfere with our opponent's game plan if they're paying attention is, I think, false. Even being forced to play around the possibility of Blood Moon can cause a lot of inconvenience for our opponents, and they won't always have their fetches.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
I've been deveoping a version of mardu based on an esper deck a japnese player sleeved up that did well over there: the crux of the deck is 4 confidant, 4 painful truths and 4 glory bound initiates
It has 4 path 4 push to keep the early board clean and then you have flexibility of what you want on your top end, I have a fulminator mage/lilly last hope package cause tron is big in my meta, but once tron (hopefully) gets tamped down by damping sphere I think we could afford a few anti combo spots like relic/nihil spellbomb.
Just windering if you guys have seen or discussed something like this?
If not I'd be happy to post the longer list and get some thoughts, feels like it could be in a cool spot in the current meta
I'm not sure how to create tags on a list, but wanted to put my list up for some feedback. The only difference between this list and what I had sleeved up for this past Fridays FNM is manamorphose. I cut 1 of my 3 main deck dreadbores and have added a manamorphose as reflected in this list. My meta is pretty wide open. I'm still unsure of the manamophose, but most decks I see putting up results are running at least 1 in the main. The same with blood moon. Most decks putting up results are running 1-2 blood moon in the main. I'm still not sold on blood moon and manamorphose, but will continue testing.
Creatures:9
4 Bedlam Reveler
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Young Pyromancer
Sideboard
1 Fatal Push
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Collective Brutality
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Wear
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Molten Rain
1 Blood Moon
Any thoughts on my list? Any stories regarding blood moon or manamorphose that would help with my confidence in playing them? I know that comes with testing, but some examples of why they are played so often in this deck would still be fantastic.
I had seen Todd Stevens say that Nahiri was great in this deck. My biggest flex spot is Hazoret, but I have honestly not played enough with her to know which is better for what we want to do, as all of Nahiri's utility is great for our deck.
I am not 100 % sure about the Hazoret main and LoTV, I am not sure both pull their weight against Hollow One, Humans and Tron. Fulminator is not needed atm since Control and Jund is on the downfall atm. More powerful LD for Tron is needed.
I am not 100 % sure about the Hazoret main and LoTV, I am not sure both pull their weight against Hollow One, Humans and Tron. Fulminator is not needed atm since Control and Jund is on the downfall atm. More powerful LD for Tron is needed.
I have cut LotV and Hazoret from the main as well. They are good cards but I think we have better options. I'm alos back up to a singular blood moon main and (4) copies of Manamorphose. I'm currently considering how I want to approach my sideboard as I have been looking to revamp the entire thing and start over. My LGS has seen little to no Tron in the past 3-4 weeks. This would strictly be a meta call for me. I think I may remove the molten rains all together and go more towards Goblin Rabblemaster or Monastery Mentor.
The thing for me is, I want another reliable threat that does not die to either GY hate (Reveler) or simply small sweepers (X/1 issue of Young Pyromancer + Tokens). Hazoret is still a threat left when the GY is shut down and the board is swept away.
I would really love 4 Manamorphose, but I am really holding onto 2 Push + 2 Terminate +1 Dreadbore and don't want to go below that. I could cut a land and add the third Manamorphose but I think I would only cut a land if I then would have the full 4 Manamorphose. In my testing 19 lands + 3 manamorphose was sometimes a little sketchy.
Yea my removal right now is 2 push, 2 dreadbore, 3 lightning bolt, 1 forked bolt. I moved away from terminate because I found myself casting the removal spells on my my turn almost everytime anyways so I figured I may as well get the extra oomph out of Dreadbore opposed to Terminate.
I do understand your worries about the X/1 creatures as well. Hazoret fills that spot pretty well. I just don't really care for Hazoret in the main anymore. I'm not exactly sure why I have moved away from her but I have. I only have her in the board now.
Here is my list currently (I am not 100% on this list yet though. still needs tweaks):
I was really confused for a second about how you could fit all those cards into the maindeck and then realized it: Your main contains 62 cards? Is this intentional?
I am not sure about cutting one Souls. Its indeed unexciting against Humans and Tron, but good against Affinity and Jund. Not sure how good it actually is against Hollow One.
Right now I am pretty unexcited about CB I have to say. I might cut one from the main and add it to the SB. I still think we need at least 3 copies in the 75, but I am not really a fan of 2 maindeck or 4 copies in the 75 right now.
Currently I have 2 Blood moon in a main. I know there are some matchups the card just offers us a free win against, but there are also plenty of times we either have to discard it, or play around it ourselves quite a bit, making it not the best turn 3 drop, which I imagine is the best time to drop it.
A lot of list I’ve seen doing well run at least 1 manamorphose, I’m thinking about cutting 1 of my 3 dreadbores for one.
Thoughts on these cards?
As for the Blood Moon question: I will keep playing them until they stop giving me free wins... or even just wins in general. Game 3 in Round 2 of the current SCG tournament is a good example of why I'll probably never cut Moons from my 75. The card gives you a lot of latitude in games that you'd otherwise not win.
I play only one Manamorphose at the moment. I don't like running any more than that, though - Mardu goes through cards so quickly with the Lootings and the Revellers, and so often grinds, that having a functionally 56 card deck can be a disadvantage because you're cutting removal for the Manamorphoses, which can leave you drawing dead in the late game.
I ask this time and again and I've never gotten a response from anyone: What matchups do you get "free" wins from?
I tried blood moon for a while and it has pretty much never been a card I want to see. It's a horrible topdeck, and it never comes down soon enough to actually interfere with our opponent's game plan if they're paying any kind of attention. At best it's an anti-tron card, which is fails at because we do not have ways to use the opening to get a win before they start hardcasting wurmcoil engines and karns. Damping Sphere is the same thing - it slows down tron but doesn't actually stop them from beating us. Sphere at least might be useful as an anti-storm card and warrant a board slot, but blood moon doesn't do that. Liliana of the Veil on the other hand actually can rescue us from bad board states and help close out good ones. She's what you'd replace blood moon for, and is almost always immediately relevant.
Manamorphose is a chance to find gas, as well as a free pyromancer/prowess trigger - plus it enables us to get out from opposing blood moons to cast black spells if we need to. It's not worth playing 4 copies, but 2-3 is fine because you'd otherwise be playing a 20th land and a 6th removal spell in all likelyhood. Milling yourself should NEVER be a concern except against the grindiest of control decks.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Current list is looking like this:
Creatures
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Young Pyromancer
Lands
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Arid Mesa
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats
2 Sacred Foundry
Spells
2 Fatal Push
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Collective Brutality
2 Dreadbore
4 Faithless Looting
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
2 Blood Moon
I have 2 spots left and was leaning either towards Liliana of the Veil and/or 1 Hazoret.
I always dislike bloodmoon when I draw it... But yesterday I played against boogles online. A very horrible matchup in general (pre board at the very least). He played t1 boogle, t2 his carddraw creature (forgot the name) and t3 auras on the boogle, I played t3 bloodmoon and he was completely out of the game. He couldn't cast any spells and his 3/3 boogle was easy to handle... Those situations are lucky and rare but they exist . Nontheless I will try lists without bloodmoon and with 2 manamorphose in the future :)Since UW is also attacking opponents manabases People play more basics nowadays.
It has 4 path 4 push to keep the early board clean and then you have flexibility of what you want on your top end, I have a fulminator mage/lilly last hope package cause tron is big in my meta, but once tron (hopefully) gets tamped down by damping sphere I think we could afford a few anti combo spots like relic/nihil spellbomb.
Just windering if you guys have seen or discussed something like this?
If not I'd be happy to post the longer list and get some thoughts, feels like it could be in a cool spot in the current meta
Creatures:9
4 Bedlam Reveler
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Young Pyromancer
Sorceries:19
2 Collective Brutality
2 Dreadbore
4 Lingering Souls
4 Faithless Looting
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
Instants:10
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Fatal Push
1 Manamorphose
Encantments:2
2 Blood Moon
Lands:20
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
Sideboard
1 Fatal Push
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Collective Brutality
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Wear
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Molten Rain
1 Blood Moon
Any thoughts on my list? Any stories regarding blood moon or manamorphose that would help with my confidence in playing them? I know that comes with testing, but some examples of why they are played so often in this deck would still be fantastic.
I had seen Todd Stevens say that Nahiri was great in this deck. My biggest flex spot is Hazoret, but I have honestly not played enough with her to know which is better for what we want to do, as all of Nahiri's utility is great for our deck.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Mountain
2 Swamp
Creatures [9]
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
2 Collective Brutality
2 Manamorphose
2 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lingering Souls
3 Molten Rain
2 Blood Moon
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Wear // Tear
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Collective Brutality
I am not 100 % sure about the Hazoret main and LoTV, I am not sure both pull their weight against Hollow One, Humans and Tron. Fulminator is not needed atm since Control and Jund is on the downfall atm. More powerful LD for Tron is needed.
I have cut LotV and Hazoret from the main as well. They are good cards but I think we have better options. I'm alos back up to a singular blood moon main and (4) copies of Manamorphose. I'm currently considering how I want to approach my sideboard as I have been looking to revamp the entire thing and start over. My LGS has seen little to no Tron in the past 3-4 weeks. This would strictly be a meta call for me. I think I may remove the molten rains all together and go more towards Goblin Rabblemaster or Monastery Mentor.
I would really love 4 Manamorphose, but I am really holding onto 2 Push + 2 Terminate +1 Dreadbore and don't want to go below that. I could cut a land and add the third Manamorphose but I think I would only cut a land if I then would have the full 4 Manamorphose. In my testing 19 lands + 3 manamorphose was sometimes a little sketchy.
I do understand your worries about the X/1 creatures as well. Hazoret fills that spot pretty well. I just don't really care for Hazoret in the main anymore. I'm not exactly sure why I have moved away from her but I have. I only have her in the board now.
Here is my list currently (I am not 100% on this list yet though. still needs tweaks):
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
2 Monastery Mentor
Enchantments:
1 Blood Moon
Instant/Sorcery:
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Manamorphose
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Dreadbore
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Faithless looting
3 Lingering Souls
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Blood Moon
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Crackling Doom
2 Collective Brutality
1 Wear // Tear
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nihil Spellbomb