Why 2 Spellbomb / 1 Surgical split? No more Hazoret main? Why 2 Wear // Tear? I'm in a similar state with the graveyard hate, I'm just not sure what number of those is correct, but I really like spellbomb vs. Jund and surgical vs. other decks. Hopefully going to an IQ on Sunday, so I can represent, but we'll see if that happens.
To make sure, Surgical is not a GY hate primarily. It is an anti combo card.
I wanted that extra surgical to have a little bit of a better game against Tron. Surgical pairs well with Fulminator there. Wear // Tear is mostly there for any random problematic enchantment. We saw an uptick of Bogles and Leyline decks recently which can beat us easily I think. Thats also the reasn for EE.
Spellbomb is fine vs Jund but not outstanding. Specifically due to BBE Jund decks got even more less susceptible to GY hate (not that they were before). Against Jund the best cards to have are Souls, Bedlam and Lilis.
While I agree it is less good post-BBE, I still think Nuking their yard while cycling a card is good. That's why I like it vs. Jund.
I agree surgicals are nice against Tron, thats why I want to have more than 1 in the board, maybe 2-3? Not sure on numbers yet.
So I'm going to an IQ on Sunday, and apparently there is a lot of control in the meta. There is a chance of me borrowing 2 LOTV, should I play both? And any tips on things I should know playing vs. BBE Jund and Jace decks?
Jace decks for the most part should be easier if you get out in front of them. If you can control pace of the game instead of letting them do it, you should be fine. Most of these decks don't play good card advantage singletons like Ancestral Vision. You should be able to stay out in front by producing pressure and maintaining board control as long as you can make them live off the top. Just don't over extend into their sweepers. Cards like Hazoret can be good against Jeskai but usually pretty poor against UW (relatively speakeing).
BBE decks should be pretty decent for you. Just remember that you're trying to trade as many resources as you can while still coming out on top when you're in top deck mode. Make them answer your threats while you get to strip cards from their hand. The front half of Lingering Souls is good in the match up but the back end is where they really shine. If you're able to cast both sides of it, you should be in a good spot. Just watch out for their Scavenging Oozes. That's what does most of the damage to you in this match up (damage meaning game pace not physical damage). You should be able to provide enough blockers for the big threats like Goyfs and Elves.
As for Liliana, IF you're expecting a lot of control, you could/should probably run 2 copies in the 75. I prefer 2 SB but recently I've been favoring 1 main 1 SB as I have been seeing a lot of control decks as well.
Lastly, I don't know if this is just my meta or not but recently I've been seeing an uptick on Spreading Seas. I would keep an eye out for that. Don't fetch your white source too early if you don't need to.
I think FlyingDelver will be able to correct me if I'm wrong on a lot of this as most of this is just my opinion based on recent meta that I've seen.
While I agree it is less good post-BBE, I still think Nuking their yard while cycling a card is good. That's why I like it vs. Jund.
I agree surgicals are nice against Tron, thats why I want to have more than 1 in the board, maybe 2-3? Not sure on numbers yet.
So I'm going to an IQ on Sunday, and apparently there is a lot of control in the meta. There is a chance of me borrowing 2 LOTV, should I play both? And any tips on things I should know playing vs. BBE Jund and Jace decks?
I would say 3 is overkill, but 2 can be run. I would probably cut a EE for it, if you want it.
I would definitely play both. LoTV is amazing against Jund and Jace decks, which I would expect right now. Maybe Jund even more so. One maind and one copy side should be great.
Gen0syde86 sayd basically the important things here already.
To add, for Jace decks, Grixis sometimes plays Visions now, and this matchup can be a beating. LoTV helps to strip their hand apart.
Jund is favourable for us, although our GY can be attacked by Ooze pretty quickly. Huge threats in goyf can be hard to remove, but thats why the extra LoTV really help in that matchup.
As for Spreading Seas and LoTV, be also careful about your black mana. Especially with BM. You can shut yourself off double black easily, and we need it for LoTV.
Thanks guy, I'll those in mind. Especially the spreading seas + only 2 swamps, good call and something that went over my head.
I'm working on my list now and will post my tentative 75 later, but what do you think about 2 moon 1 hazoret, 1 LOTV main? I'm most likely playing 19 lands with 2 manamorphose, 1 dreadbore, 1 terminate as most of the "flex" spots.
Madness cards aren’t necessary but are interesting to test with. I am quite happy with big game hunter and plan to keep him in the sideboard.
Bloodhall Priest looks nice but only works when you are hellbent. I find in mardu you generally have cards in hand from reveler or that you are holding to discard to faithless looting. So that was the reason not to include it. Also you are paying the same price (3mana) when VP is a much better card.
2 cards that you could consider for your sideboard that I am having success with are Kambal, Consul of Allocation and Chandra,Torch of Defiance.
Kambal is great vs Burn, Storm and control and is okay against other decks that are fairly heavy on the noncreature spells Tron, Ad Nauseam, etc.
Chandra is good at fighting other midrange or control strategies. She shoots down opposing planeswalkers and gives us pseudo card advantage. Her damage ability also works well to close out games in conjunction with burn.
Also for consideration is crumble to dust for the Tron match up. It comes down a turn late though but it can lock them out of Tron and doesn’t give them a basic.
Why 2 Spellbomb / 1 Surgical split? No more Hazoret main? Why 2 Wear // Tear? I'm in a similar state with the graveyard hate, I'm just not sure what number of those is correct, but I really like spellbomb vs. Jund and surgical vs. other decks. Hopefully going to an IQ on Sunday, so I can represent, but we'll see if that happens.
Why do you ''really like'' Spellbomb vs Jund ?
I think Nihil Spellbomb isn’t where we want to be in this matchup. Our deck is all about filling our graveyard and we will generally have multiple cards types in our own GY (if you are running Blood moon and Liliana then we have 6 card types main). Adding an artifact generally means that even though you wipe your opponents GY you are actually making their Goyfs grow.
Also this match up is better if we add more threats post sideboard. Bring in planeswalkers, rabblemasters, hazoret, Kambal, Fulminator, etc. You can cut some discard to make room. This way when we eventually get to topdecking we are better able to keep up.
Is Kambal good vs. control? I see a lot of people running 2 of him, but I'm not totally sold on him.
He is a must answer threat. They can’t let him hit the battlefield without losing life. If they counter him then hopefully you can follow up by resolving a Reveler or Liliana.
If they don’t have a path or bolt to kill him then they are forced to take a ton of damage while they opt, visions, etc or counter other threats. He forces them to make suboptimal plays and increases your threat density.
He can also chip away for a couple points of damage here and there and can fight off opposing snapcasters.
So while he isn’t the best card in the matchup he is a good one. Though he is primarily a silver bullet card for storm and burn.
Thanks guy, I'll those in mind. Especially the spreading seas + only 2 swamps, good call and something that went over my head.
I'm working on my list now and will post my tentative 75 later, but what do you think about 2 moon 1 hazoret, 1 LOTV main? I'm most likely playing 19 lands with 2 manamorphose, 1 dreadbore, 1 terminate as most of the "flex" spots.
I think with 19 lands, 3 Manamorphose is kinda the minimum. I am not on the BM train anymore, but if you want it, you can certainly run it. I just think its not doing much for us compared to extra copies of Liliana or Push.
Hazoret is great, but it gets harder to cast with 19 lands only. So keep that in mind.
Haven't been a fan of Kambal too much yet. Its certainly good vs Burn and Storm, but I have found that I would rather run the fourth CB against those. CB is more impactful than Kambal across the field. Also vs Control I would rather discard them than drain them for 2 and discard a bolt basically.
If I go down the Hazoret, I think 19 lands + 2 manamorphose should be enough. I'm not sold on Kambal but I've also never drawn it in my testings, so haven't really played with it yet lol.
@FlyingDelver Why 2 wear//tear, for bogles? I'm currently on one.
Also I think I'm gonna do 1 LOTV main, with 1 LOTV and 1 Hazoret side. I might only be able to get 1 LOTV, so might play a Last Hope in the sideboard for my second Lili.
Last thing I have is 2 spots for removal, what do you guys think about 1 dreadbore & 1 terminate vs. 2 dreadbore?
I'd just play (2) Dreadbore. You're casting your spells sorcery speed anyways. There's almost no downside with a huge upside.
Also, I love Kambal. He helps the burn match up and the storm match up. Both of which I think are particularly poor for this deck. I am on 2 copies in my board now because of that. Just my opinion though. I've all but given up on a lot of the bad match ups and have primarily started focusing on making the rest of my games better against decks that we aren't as bad against. Tron is always going to be a problem and there's not a whole lot you can do about it except try to be lucky so I have no dedicated tron SB hate (BM in this case). I still have fulminators and molten rains but that's because they are also good against control. I still run GY hate because, well graveyard decks are always going to be around.
Burn and storm are bad matchups game one but get so much better post board. Kambal is an all-star against them.
I'd just play (2) Dreadbore. You're casting your spells sorcery speed anyways. There's almost no downside with a huge upside.
Also, I love Kambal. He helps the burn match up and the storm match up. Both of which I think are particularly poor for this deck. I am on 2 copies in my board now because of that. Just my opinion though. I've all but given up on a lot of the bad match ups and have primarily started focusing on making the rest of my games better against decks that we aren't as bad against. Tron is always going to be a problem and there's not a whole lot you can do about it except try to be lucky so I have no dedicated tron SB hate (BM in this case). I still have fulminators and molten rains but that's because they are also good against control. I still run GY hate because, well graveyard decks are always going to be around.
Burn and storm are bad matchups game one but get so much better post board. Kambal is an all-star against them.
Good point on dreadbore, I might just run 2 of those.
I feel like Storm isn't that bad, we have so much disruption, I wouldn't say its less than 45-55, and I would give us the 55 pre-board and higher post-board.
What's your sideboard look like? I'm thinking about 2 spellbomb 3 surgical, but that might be too much. I would have to make room to fit another 1-2 Kambal.
Well fist of all, I like it for consistency sake. But mostly, there has been an uptick in boggles decks floating around. I'd like to have an answer for their turn 0 Leyline asap. just preference. I've never been a huge fan of singletons in boards unless its like an overlapping effect. This is the only real type of this effect that we get and I think it's super helpful to have. Again though, this is my preference.
Totally didn't think about Leyline, and with my having 2 LOTV for this tournament, that seems very good to be able to kill Leylines, I'll probably bring 2 in my sideboard. Not sure if I can fit a second Kambal, would mean I would have to go off of all my spellbombs, unless I went down to 2 Surgicals.
Well, multiple Wear // Tear are obvioulsy better against Bogles than just one. But its not the primary reason to run it. I like it in a more general way right now, but you can certainly cut down to one copy.
I would also recommend 2 Dreadbore. Its important to kill PWs right now.
As for Burn and Storm, I personally havent felt the need to run a narrow card like Kambal for them. I dont think they are that bad of a matchup. Burn is dicey, as we have a slow clock, but we do run up to 4 CBs for that reason.
To make sure, Surgical is not a GY hate primarily. It is an anti combo card.
I wanted that extra surgical to have a little bit of a better game against Tron. Surgical pairs well with Fulminator there. Wear // Tear is mostly there for any random problematic enchantment. We saw an uptick of Bogles and Leyline decks recently which can beat us easily I think. Thats also the reasn for EE.
Spellbomb is fine vs Jund but not outstanding. Specifically due to BBE Jund decks got even more less susceptible to GY hate (not that they were before). Against Jund the best cards to have are Souls, Bedlam and Lilis.
I agree surgicals are nice against Tron, thats why I want to have more than 1 in the board, maybe 2-3? Not sure on numbers yet.
So I'm going to an IQ on Sunday, and apparently there is a lot of control in the meta. There is a chance of me borrowing 2 LOTV, should I play both? And any tips on things I should know playing vs. BBE Jund and Jace decks?
BBE decks should be pretty decent for you. Just remember that you're trying to trade as many resources as you can while still coming out on top when you're in top deck mode. Make them answer your threats while you get to strip cards from their hand. The front half of Lingering Souls is good in the match up but the back end is where they really shine. If you're able to cast both sides of it, you should be in a good spot. Just watch out for their Scavenging Oozes. That's what does most of the damage to you in this match up (damage meaning game pace not physical damage). You should be able to provide enough blockers for the big threats like Goyfs and Elves.
As for Liliana, IF you're expecting a lot of control, you could/should probably run 2 copies in the 75. I prefer 2 SB but recently I've been favoring 1 main 1 SB as I have been seeing a lot of control decks as well.
Lastly, I don't know if this is just my meta or not but recently I've been seeing an uptick on Spreading Seas. I would keep an eye out for that. Don't fetch your white source too early if you don't need to.
I think FlyingDelver will be able to correct me if I'm wrong on a lot of this as most of this is just my opinion based on recent meta that I've seen.
I would say 3 is overkill, but 2 can be run. I would probably cut a EE for it, if you want it.
I would definitely play both. LoTV is amazing against Jund and Jace decks, which I would expect right now. Maybe Jund even more so. One maind and one copy side should be great.
Gen0syde86 sayd basically the important things here already.
To add, for Jace decks, Grixis sometimes plays Visions now, and this matchup can be a beating. LoTV helps to strip their hand apart.
Jund is favourable for us, although our GY can be attacked by Ooze pretty quickly. Huge threats in goyf can be hard to remove, but thats why the extra LoTV really help in that matchup.
As for Spreading Seas and LoTV, be also careful about your black mana. Especially with BM. You can shut yourself off double black easily, and we need it for LoTV.
I'm working on my list now and will post my tentative 75 later, but what do you think about 2 moon 1 hazoret, 1 LOTV main? I'm most likely playing 19 lands with 2 manamorphose, 1 dreadbore, 1 terminate as most of the "flex" spots.
Bloodhall Priest looks nice but only works when you are hellbent. I find in mardu you generally have cards in hand from reveler or that you are holding to discard to faithless looting. So that was the reason not to include it. Also you are paying the same price (3mana) when VP is a much better card.
2 cards that you could consider for your sideboard that I am having success with are Kambal, Consul of Allocation and Chandra,Torch of Defiance.
Kambal is great vs Burn, Storm and control and is okay against other decks that are fairly heavy on the noncreature spells Tron, Ad Nauseam, etc.
Chandra is good at fighting other midrange or control strategies. She shoots down opposing planeswalkers and gives us pseudo card advantage. Her damage ability also works well to close out games in conjunction with burn.
Also for consideration is crumble to dust for the Tron match up. It comes down a turn late though but it can lock them out of Tron and doesn’t give them a basic.
I think Nihil Spellbomb isn’t where we want to be in this matchup. Our deck is all about filling our graveyard and we will generally have multiple cards types in our own GY (if you are running Blood moon and Liliana then we have 6 card types main). Adding an artifact generally means that even though you wipe your opponents GY you are actually making their Goyfs grow.
Also this match up is better if we add more threats post sideboard. Bring in planeswalkers, rabblemasters, hazoret, Kambal, Fulminator, etc. You can cut some discard to make room. This way when we eventually get to topdecking we are better able to keep up.
He is a must answer threat. They can’t let him hit the battlefield without losing life. If they counter him then hopefully you can follow up by resolving a Reveler or Liliana.
If they don’t have a path or bolt to kill him then they are forced to take a ton of damage while they opt, visions, etc or counter other threats. He forces them to make suboptimal plays and increases your threat density.
He can also chip away for a couple points of damage here and there and can fight off opposing snapcasters.
So while he isn’t the best card in the matchup he is a good one. Though he is primarily a silver bullet card for storm and burn.
I think with 19 lands, 3 Manamorphose is kinda the minimum. I am not on the BM train anymore, but if you want it, you can certainly run it. I just think its not doing much for us compared to extra copies of Liliana or Push.
Hazoret is great, but it gets harder to cast with 19 lands only. So keep that in mind.
@FlyingDelver Why 2 wear//tear, for bogles? I'm currently on one.
Also I think I'm gonna do 1 LOTV main, with 1 LOTV and 1 Hazoret side. I might only be able to get 1 LOTV, so might play a Last Hope in the sideboard for my second Lili.
Last thing I have is 2 spots for removal, what do you guys think about 1 dreadbore & 1 terminate vs. 2 dreadbore?
Also, I love Kambal. He helps the burn match up and the storm match up. Both of which I think are particularly poor for this deck. I am on 2 copies in my board now because of that. Just my opinion though. I've all but given up on a lot of the bad match ups and have primarily started focusing on making the rest of my games better against decks that we aren't as bad against. Tron is always going to be a problem and there's not a whole lot you can do about it except try to be lucky so I have no dedicated tron SB hate (BM in this case). I still have fulminators and molten rains but that's because they are also good against control. I still run GY hate because, well graveyard decks are always going to be around.
Burn and storm are bad matchups game one but get so much better post board. Kambal is an all-star against them.
Good point on dreadbore, I might just run 2 of those.
I feel like Storm isn't that bad, we have so much disruption, I wouldn't say its less than 45-55, and I would give us the 55 pre-board and higher post-board.
What's your sideboard look like? I'm thinking about 2 spellbomb 3 surgical, but that might be too much. I would have to make room to fit another 1-2 Kambal.
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Molten Rain
1 Fulminator Mage
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Wear // Tear
2 Collective Brutality
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
I just put one of the LotV in the maina nd I don't remember what I put in that slot. Maybe it was the 3rd Wear // Tear. I can't remember exactly.
I would also recommend 2 Dreadbore. Its important to kill PWs right now.
As for Burn and Storm, I personally havent felt the need to run a narrow card like Kambal for them. I dont think they are that bad of a matchup. Burn is dicey, as we have a slow clock, but we do run up to 4 CBs for that reason.