As I've said before, I will keep playing Blood Moon in the main until it stops giving me free wins. It hasn't yet, so I'm happy to keep running it, especially given how good that this deck is at churning through cards and discarding cards that aren't currently useful.
Someone I'd consider one of the experts on Mardu, Galan Falakfarsa (who gave the deck it's first major result in a paper tournament) is currently not running any Lilianas or Manamorphoses in his list - due to a combination of running into a lot of Burn online in which Manamorphose is a terrible card and because he feels like cutting removal for card draw is counterproductive against a lot of decks. His list is also currently running 2 mainboard Moons.
As such, it's really just a matter of preference.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
As I've said before, I will keep playing Blood Moon in the main until it stops giving me free wins. It hasn't yet, so I'm happy to keep running it, especially given how good that this deck is at churning through cards and discarding cards that aren't currently useful.
Someone I'd consider one of the experts on Mardu, Galan Falakfarsa (who gave the deck it's first major result in a paper tournament) is currently not running any Lilianas or Manamorphoses in his list - due to a combination of running into a lot of Burn online in which Manamorphose is a terrible card and because he feels like cutting removal for card draw is counterproductive against a lot of decks. His list is also currently running 2 mainboard Moons.
Well, I hope people will listen to that man, since I called it from the beginning on. BM is not good anymore in Mardu.
Any reason for not including Liliana, did he state something in his patreon?
LOL blood moon isn't good anymore that's funny it depends on your meta if you playing against heavy jund bbe meta with jeskai jace being the favoured jace deck of choice with some tron still running round blood moon is excellent.
I played at a 4 round modern
ROUND 1 Druid combo lost GAME 1 couldn't deal with rhonas and got ground out.GAME 2 side in 3 molten rain 1 blood moon on the play disrupt hand and board to the point he gets one basic and i molten rain him out of the game.GAME 3 i side out all blood mood and molten's back to a more aggressive side helix and more removal comes in and surgicals i tax his land he never gets past 3 lands i close him out of the game with hazoret.
ROUND 2 U/W control GAME 1 win the roll tax his hand drop blood moon win the game he has one u mana that he managed to get before the moon dropped.GAME 2 i loose this game he manages to counter all the important things i do or path couldn't stablise.GAME 3 the extra blood moon comes in and the 3 moltens come in and surgicals again i lock him out of the game with discard and moon with molten rain.
ROUND 3 U/W control again GAME 1 he wins the dice roll grinds me out with counters and paths.GAME 2 side into my fav sided blood moon and molten rains grind him out with blood moon and pyromancer.GAME 3 i keep him off balance with blood moon and molten rain with discard and surgical his threats game grinds to a draw.
ROUND 4 U/W/R geistGAME 1 he manages to slam a geist on 3 i cant grind out of it.GAME 2 blood moon and molten rain lock him out.GAME 3 same deal.
so as you can see blood moon for me was the stand out proformer on the night lost me every game 2 that i lost game 1 and was on the play it also solo won me 2 control match-ups and ground another one to a draw.
Final 3-0-1 i win the night and blood moon night.
Just because Gerry is not running Moon does not necessarily mean that it's bad - other people who I consider to be very good with this deck are still running Blood Moon, such a Galan Falakfarsa, and I feel it has enough utility in certain matchups to be worth running at least as a one-of. This deck is very good at card selection - an unnecessary Moon can be put into the bin without much of a problem.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Just because Gerry is not running Moon does not necessarily mean that it's bad - other people who I consider to be very good with this deck are still running Blood Moon, such a Galan Falakfarsa, and I feel it has enough utility in certain matchups to be worth running at least as a one-of. This deck is very good at card selection - an unnecessary Moon can be put into the bin without much of a problem.
Exactly. Also, Gerry has been posting a lot of deck list for this deck recently, some with, some without Blood Moon.
Just went 4-0 in competitive live event, Blood Moon was again a all star (vs Jund and Jeskai)
But I have to say, I kinda like that last list from Gerry. Never tried Hazoret , I've been on the Rabblemaster plan for a long time with mixed result
Well, I hope people will listen to that man, since I called it from the beginning on. BM is not good anymore in Mardu.
Any reason for not including Liliana, did he state something in his patreon?
LOL blood moon isn't good anymore that's funny it depends on your meta if you playing against heavy jund bbe meta with jeskai jace being the favoured jace deck of choice with some tron still running round blood moon is excellent.
I played at a 4 round modern
ROUND 1 Druid combo lost GAME 1 couldn't deal with rhonas and got ground out.GAME 2 side in 3 molten rain 1 blood moon on the play disrupt hand and board to the point he gets one basic and i molten rain him out of the game.GAME 3 i side out all blood mood and molten's back to a more aggressive side helix and more removal comes in and surgicals i tax his land he never gets past 3 lands i close him out of the game with hazoret.
ROUND 2 U/W control GAME 1 win the roll tax his hand drop blood moon win the game he has one u mana that he managed to get before the moon dropped.GAME 2 i loose this game he manages to counter all the important things i do or path couldn't stablise.GAME 3 the extra blood moon comes in and the 3 moltens come in and surgicals again i lock him out of the game with discard and moon with molten rain.
ROUND 3 U/W control again GAME 1 he wins the dice roll grinds me out with counters and paths.GAME 2 side into my fav sided blood moon and molten rains grind him out with blood moon and pyromancer.GAME 3 i keep him off balance with blood moon and molten rain with discard and surgical his threats game grinds to a draw.
ROUND 4 U/W/R geistGAME 1 he manages to slam a geist on 3 i cant grind out of it.GAME 2 blood moon and molten rain lock him out.GAME 3 same deal.
so as you can see blood moon for me was the stand out proformer on the night lost me every game 2 that i lost game 1 and was on the play it also solo won me 2 control match-ups and ground another one to a draw.
Final 3-0-1 i win the night and blood moon night.
You really think I don't know that that depends on metas?
Its funny you mentioned UW Control twice here, because BM is the first card I cut in that matchup. Don't think BM is good against a deck which runs around 8 basics...
I mean, great that it worked for you, but that doesn't change the fact that I absolutely board the card out in that attrition based matchup. I still think that is the correct thing to do.
Other times you want to draw a threat or discard spell while your opponent has enough basics on the BF, and then you are topdecking a BM, you will get sad.
BM is actually also a card I cut against Jund, as well as Jeskai. IMO that are not the exact matchups where we want BM, and since I know those are popular now, I still am on the opinion that BM will for the general meta be not good anymore. I don't treat that deck as a tempo deck in those matchups, its a grindy deck and therefore will definitely board that way.
Everyone personally has to decide ofc. But generally speaking, I think BM will be played less in Mardu going onward.
I think BM is great against Jeskai. I have won so many games off the back of Moon because I was able to just get a little further ahead on board and outrace them under Cryptic Commands. That said, I still think BM is the worst card in the deck and I have also removed it completely from my version of the deck.
Not saying this solves the discussion, just that for his GP Toronto guide Thompson says to leave in the main deck Blood Moons vs. Jeskai and BGx matchups. For the Jeskai decks he says that bringing in molten rain is good in combination with Blood Moon because you can snipe their basics with it. For BGx he says its more iffy, he even leaves in his discard, but he leaves them in because (just like Grixis Shadow), they have to choose between playing around Blood Moon and casting all their spells. Can be very awkward, sometimes you have it and you win because they can't cast enough, sometimes they play around it and you just hinder their mana that way. I'm currently testing 2 Blood Moon main, 3 Rain with the 3 Surgical sideboard. Might test the Nahiri list to see how that works too, but I'm not too sold on it yet.
Not saying this solves the discussion, just that for his GP Toronto guide Thompson says to leave in the main deck Blood Moons vs. Jeskai and BGx matchups. For the Jeskai decks he says that bringing in molten rain is good in combination with Blood Moon because you can snipe their basics with it. For BGx he says its more iffy, he even leaves in his discard, but he leaves them in because (just like Grixis Shadow), they have to choose between playing around Blood Moon and casting all their spells. Can be very awkward, sometimes you have it and you win because they can't cast enough, sometimes they play around it and you just hinder their mana that way. I'm currently testing 2 Blood Moon main, 3 Rain with the 3 Surgical sideboard. Might test the Nahiri list to see how that works too, but I'm not too sold on it yet.
Yeah i'm on the same plan except i'm on 2 moon main 1 side and 3 molten rain with 2 surgical.seems to do work for me....i'm more unhappy with the rest of my side pithing needle feels meh Kambal, Consul of Allocation also feels a bit underwhelming but i guess its meta based.
Well, I hope people will listen to that man, since I called it from the beginning on. BM is not good anymore in Mardu.
Any reason for not including Liliana, did he state something in his patreon?
LOL blood moon isn't good anymore that's funny it depends on your meta if you playing against heavy jund bbe meta with jeskai jace being the favoured jace deck of choice with some tron still running round blood moon is excellent.
I played at a 4 round modern
ROUND 1 Druid combo lost GAME 1 couldn't deal with rhonas and got ground out.GAME 2 side in 3 molten rain 1 blood moon on the play disrupt hand and board to the point he gets one basic and i molten rain him out of the game.GAME 3 i side out all blood mood and molten's back to a more aggressive side helix and more removal comes in and surgicals i tax his land he never gets past 3 lands i close him out of the game with hazoret.
ROUND 2 U/W control GAME 1 win the roll tax his hand drop blood moon win the game he has one u mana that he managed to get before the moon dropped.GAME 2 i loose this game he manages to counter all the important things i do or path couldn't stablise.GAME 3 the extra blood moon comes in and the 3 moltens come in and surgicals again i lock him out of the game with discard and moon with molten rain.
ROUND 3 U/W control again GAME 1 he wins the dice roll grinds me out with counters and paths.GAME 2 side into my fav sided blood moon and molten rains grind him out with blood moon and pyromancer.GAME 3 i keep him off balance with blood moon and molten rain with discard and surgical his threats game grinds to a draw.
ROUND 4 U/W/R geistGAME 1 he manages to slam a geist on 3 i cant grind out of it.GAME 2 blood moon and molten rain lock him out.GAME 3 same deal.
so as you can see blood moon for me was the stand out proformer on the night lost me every game 2 that i lost game 1 and was on the play it also solo won me 2 control match-ups and ground another one to a draw.
Final 3-0-1 i win the night and blood moon night.
You really think I don't know that that depends on metas?
Its funny you mentioned UW Control twice here, because BM is the first card I cut in that matchup. Don't think BM is good against a deck which runs around 8 basics...
I mean, great that it worked for you, but that doesn't change the fact that I absolutely board the card out in that attrition based matchup. I still think that is the correct thing to do.
Other times you want to draw a threat or discard spell while your opponent has enough basics on the BF, and then you are topdecking a BM, you will get sad.
BM is actually also a card I cut against Jund, as well as Jeskai. IMO that are not the exact matchups where we want BM, and since I know those are popular now, I still am on the opinion that BM will for the general meta be not good anymore. I don't treat that deck as a tempo deck in those matchups, its a grindy deck and therefore will definitely board that way.
Everyone personally has to decide ofc. But generally speaking, I think BM will be played less in Mardu going onward.
for sure i think everyone plays it different the moon package for me is more of a bit of a got ya against u/w where they have 8 basics you do have to support your moons with the molten rains but i wasn't trying to screw them with blood moon more trying to cut them of colonnade use my discard to take away their threats (because they have low threat density) while surgical them.it just so happen i dropped on my turn 3 their turn two they opened colonnade then fetch land they had one opportunity at a basic leaving them with seven next turn i molten rained their basic allowing me to get so far ahead while they drew into another one.
You have to think about the play opposed to draw if we are on the play putting moon down is more effective than on the draw as usually they will drop only one basic if any in that time.
I like Moon for control matchups, but that's only because it's very difficult to outgrind an active Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin. But Molten Rains from the board can probably do a very similar job.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Against Control, just play Fulminator Mage. Its never a dead draw like BM and Molten Rain can be, and Fulminator can get in for dmg. As soon as they point a removal spell at it, sac it and destroy a Colonnade. You can also destroy Azcanta as it flipped.
For the Control matchups, BM cant be an argument for me, since we have access to Fulminator if we want.
Fulminator is great vs Colonnade Control decks, wheras BM and Molten Rain are bad or only ok. Fulminator presents a threat and likely trades 2 for 1.
Hey Guys, any tips on when to bring Surgical Extraction ? I didn't test the card at all and I'm surprise that Gerry T doesn't bring it vs Jeskai (pre-Jace unban).
Hey Guys, any tips on when to bring Surgical Extraction ? I didn't test the card at all and I'm surprise that Gerry T doesn't bring it vs Jeskai (pre-Jace unban).
Dont bring in surgical in attrition based games. Control matchups are attrition based.
Surgical is only for combo hate and big mana. Its incredibly bad in grindy matchups.
I only bring in Surgical in vs combo, Tron (so you can pick their lands after you've blown one up), and dedicated graveyard strategies (Dredge & Hollow one just to slow down their clock so we can stabilize). If you're boarding it in in other match ups, you're probably doing it wrong.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Someone I'd consider one of the experts on Mardu, Galan Falakfarsa (who gave the deck it's first major result in a paper tournament) is currently not running any Lilianas or Manamorphoses in his list - due to a combination of running into a lot of Burn online in which Manamorphose is a terrible card and because he feels like cutting removal for card draw is counterproductive against a lot of decks. His list is also currently running 2 mainboard Moons.
As such, it's really just a matter of preference.
Why is Manamorphose a terrible card against Burn?
Imagine your opponent has an Eidolon of the Great Revel and you have to use Manamorphoses to dig for removal.
Forgot about that one. Good point.
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Dreadbore
3 Manamorphose
2 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
3 Kolaghan's Command
1 Swamp
3 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
4 Molten Rain
2 Collective Brutality
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Wear//Tear
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Edit: my sideboard is slightly different too
Well, I hope people will listen to that man, since I called it from the beginning on. BM is not good anymore in Mardu.
Any reason for not including Liliana, did he state something in his patreon?
LOL blood moon isn't good anymore that's funny it depends on your meta if you playing against heavy jund bbe meta with jeskai jace being the favoured jace deck of choice with some tron still running round blood moon is excellent.
I played at a 4 round modern
ROUND 1 Druid combo lost GAME 1 couldn't deal with rhonas and got ground out.GAME 2 side in 3 molten rain 1 blood moon on the play disrupt hand and board to the point he gets one basic and i molten rain him out of the game.GAME 3 i side out all blood mood and molten's back to a more aggressive side helix and more removal comes in and surgicals i tax his land he never gets past 3 lands i close him out of the game with hazoret.
ROUND 2 U/W control GAME 1 win the roll tax his hand drop blood moon win the game he has one u mana that he managed to get before the moon dropped.GAME 2 i loose this game he manages to counter all the important things i do or path couldn't stablise.GAME 3 the extra blood moon comes in and the 3 moltens come in and surgicals again i lock him out of the game with discard and moon with molten rain.
ROUND 3 U/W control again GAME 1 he wins the dice roll grinds me out with counters and paths.GAME 2 side into my fav sided blood moon and molten rains grind him out with blood moon and pyromancer.GAME 3 i keep him off balance with blood moon and molten rain with discard and surgical his threats game grinds to a draw.
ROUND 4 U/W/R geistGAME 1 he manages to slam a geist on 3 i cant grind out of it.GAME 2 blood moon and molten rain lock him out.GAME 3 same deal.
so as you can see blood moon for me was the stand out proformer on the night lost me every game 2 that i lost game 1 and was on the play it also solo won me 2 control match-ups and ground another one to a draw.
Final 3-0-1 i win the night and blood moon night.
Exactly. Also, Gerry has been posting a lot of deck list for this deck recently, some with, some without Blood Moon.
Just went 4-0 in competitive live event, Blood Moon was again a all star (vs Jund and Jeskai)
But I have to say, I kinda like that last list from Gerry. Never tried Hazoret , I've been on the Rabblemaster plan for a long time with mixed result
You really think I don't know that that depends on metas?
Its funny you mentioned UW Control twice here, because BM is the first card I cut in that matchup. Don't think BM is good against a deck which runs around 8 basics...
I mean, great that it worked for you, but that doesn't change the fact that I absolutely board the card out in that attrition based matchup. I still think that is the correct thing to do.
Other times you want to draw a threat or discard spell while your opponent has enough basics on the BF, and then you are topdecking a BM, you will get sad.
BM is actually also a card I cut against Jund, as well as Jeskai. IMO that are not the exact matchups where we want BM, and since I know those are popular now, I still am on the opinion that BM will for the general meta be not good anymore. I don't treat that deck as a tempo deck in those matchups, its a grindy deck and therefore will definitely board that way.
Everyone personally has to decide ofc. But generally speaking, I think BM will be played less in Mardu going onward.
Yeah i'm on the same plan except i'm on 2 moon main 1 side and 3 molten rain with 2 surgical.seems to do work for me....i'm more unhappy with the rest of my side pithing needle feels meh Kambal, Consul of Allocation also feels a bit underwhelming but i guess its meta based.
for sure i think everyone plays it different the moon package for me is more of a bit of a got ya against u/w where they have 8 basics you do have to support your moons with the molten rains but i wasn't trying to screw them with blood moon more trying to cut them of colonnade use my discard to take away their threats (because they have low threat density) while surgical them.it just so happen i dropped on my turn 3 their turn two they opened colonnade then fetch land they had one opportunity at a basic leaving them with seven next turn i molten rained their basic allowing me to get so far ahead while they drew into another one.
You have to think about the play opposed to draw if we are on the play putting moon down is more effective than on the draw as usually they will drop only one basic if any in that time.
For the Control matchups, BM cant be an argument for me, since we have access to Fulminator if we want.
Fulminator is great vs Colonnade Control decks, wheras BM and Molten Rain are bad or only ok. Fulminator presents a threat and likely trades 2 for 1.
Dont bring in surgical in attrition based games. Control matchups are attrition based.
Surgical is only for combo hate and big mana. Its incredibly bad in grindy matchups.