Street Wraith is one of the better cards in grixis and jund shadow, imo. It is never something you are vying to have, but you are never dissatisfied in seeing it. It actually doesn't reduce threat density at all, as it reduces your deck to 56 cards, and makes your decks more threat dense, and lets you shave lands.
Playing 56 cards is the popular description for a free cantrip but that's not actually what it is. It's drawing an additional card. If you have a 6 turn game you draw 13 cards, add in a Street Wraith and you draw 14, 2 Wraiths and it's 15. This clarification might seem pedantic at first, but I promise you it isn't. On average you'll see a single copy of a 4 of after 10 cards. That's a convenient number because 10 cards is turn 3 on the play. So in your first 3 turns rather than seeing 10 cards, if you include 4 Street Wraiths you'll see 11 cards. This means that a deck that needs 22 land will still be more consistent if you give it 22 land. To put some numbers on this, if you want an 80% chance of seeing 3 lands by turn 4 (after seeing 11 cards) you need 21 lands. If you include 4 Street Wraith you need 20 lands. If it was a 56 card deck, you would only need 19 lands.
While I do agree that it effectively lets us run a 56 card deck (which is a good thing and has its own benefits). I absolutely disagree that it lets you see an extra card. In fact one has to act as if this card as if it doesn't exist. So when it lets us "see an extra card" we are really just paying 2 life to see the card we should have drawn anyways. (your 11 cards is secretly just 10 in disguise). In fact, now those "10 cards" have turned into either "10 cards and pay 2 life" or "9 cards and a dead brick in your hand", your choice.
I used to play a version of storm that was effectively only 48 cards (Gitaxian Probe, Manamorphose, Mishra's Bauble). Eventually I realized that none of those cards "existed" in my deck and they let me increase the density of everything else. But they had the drawback of making the mulligan decision much harder (often I would stare at 1 land, 3 non lands, and 3 I don't knows). I was paying some kind of "tax" to get to 48 effective cards. Now with Street Wraith instead of G-Probe, we are paying a small "life tax" to be able to run a 56 card deck. Most of the time this will be just fine for us, but there will be times when Cycling a Street Wraith will take us into bolt range (or bolt-snap-bolt) So every once in a while, this card that "doesn't exist" end up being a dead brick in your hand.
Without additional synergy (like growing Tarmogoyfs, and turning on Traverse), I don't see the benefits outweighing the drawbacks.
But wraith is an integral part of reducing your life total for shadow, and a key way to draw shadow. Without it, we cannot consistently draw it or when we do it will not be big enough.
But wraith is an integral part of reducing your life total for shadow, and a key way to draw shadow. Without it, we cannot consistently draw it or when we do it will not be big enough.
It's less important to lower your life total than you think. Most (though not all) opposing decks will hit you some, which is an enabler in itself. Also a painful enough manabase pulls a lot of weight. You would be surprised at what a Mana Confluence can do to your life total. Not to mention other incidental damage like Thoughtseize, Kolaghan's Command, or even occasionally a Lightning Bolt, plus Orzhov Charm, Dismember, and Gut Shot, even Vendetta can put in work.
But wraith is an integral part of reducing your life total for shadow, and a key way to draw shadow. Without it, we cannot consistently draw it or when we do it will not be big enough.
The idea that Wraith adds consistency is kind of a joke when you compare it to say Serum Visions. You are slightly improving your odds of drawing any particular card. But with no way to manipulate or chose what you are drawing, this "slight edge" of running only 56 cards will help in only (1-(56/60))*100 = 6.7% of your draws. Compare that to serum visions ability to affect your next card drawn 100% of the time. This is similar to the misnomer that fetching produces an extremely slanted thinning effect, when in fact the true affects of thinning on a decks draws are very small. (Unless the hand goes super long its almost negligible)
You must not be running your shadows with Ranger of Eos? I typically see 3 and often see all 4 of my death Shadows in a given hand. Never have I been wanting for another chance to "draw" a Shadow. They tend to show up pretty consistently for the big push on turn 5....
I'm going to be playing my mardu nahiri list again tomorrow and testing 4 demigod of revenge in the list. All my lands can cast it and it is still synergistic. I feel like with the other things I am doing, in theory, my opponent won't be able to handle all of them and I will be able to win with one of the angles I am attacking from.
I like what the BR deck is doing but I'm not so sure my manabase can handle playing blood moon even though I have seen some lists try it.
First time posting here, I have been playing Mardu Midrange for the couple of months and I want to share you guys my work and gather some advices. Im on a more Jund style deck, tell me what you think!
I'm also shelving the Blade aspect of my deck. It's fun but I've been siding them out more and more frequently that I might as well not have Swords in the main and either have them in the side or out entirely. I'm thinking of going more Midrange with this for a creature lineup
Thunderbreak performed pretty good at FNM tonight, securing a 2-0 win over Grixis Death's Shadow and Stormbreath is a Path/Push proof creature with haste that I'd love to try out.
I don't understand lists that aren't playing 4 Thoughtseize's and are instead playing 4 Inquisitions. Combo/Tron decks are some of the worst MU's for the deck and Thoughtseize is way better than IoK against them. Mardu has a lot of lifegain to mitigate the 2 life loss. Just seems odd to me.
I wasn't expecting this list to do well, and it didn't. I went 2-2 beating Burn and Affinity, losing to Abzan and Burn. The meta was pretty bad this week. It ended up being 3 Death's Shadow, 3 Burn, 2 Affinity, 4 Tron (3 Eldrazi, 1 U), 1 Abzan, 1 Taking Turns, 1 Scapeshift, 1 something.
Anyways, this list was meant to try a bunch of stuff so I could make a better list next week. So the stuff I liked, and stuff I didn't:
Dark Confidant was absolutely awful. I never wanted to cast it on T2, but that just lead to me doing nothing on T2. By the time I did want to cast it, it wouldn't impact the board and my life total would be low. Do not run this.
Tidehollow Sculler on the other hand was fantastic. I really liked being able to curve it on T2 and gain some tempo, and even late game it's not horrible. It seemed like a pretty reasonable 2 drop.
Ranger of Eos is ok but I can't figure out the right number. Two would be nice for consistency, but 1 is probably the most powerful since the second Ranger has much less to go get.
Street Wraith was every bit as bad as I thought it would be, perhaps even worse than that.
Hammer was fine, but never great. I never activated it, and it never did much.
In the sideboard Dismember was bad and so was Gut Shot but I was happy with the rest.
The lack of an Eidolon really stands out as the other DS enablers are so slow. The heavy discard plan seems to work well though and it and Eidolon are at odds with each other.
I'm going to play Mardu again next weekend, but I think I'm going to move away from the DS build for a little while. Too many of Mardu's strengths involve life gain, which is bad with Shadow.
Why the 4x Demigods? What bad MUs do they improve?
To me, they seem clunky. At that point why not use those slots to increase the copies of Resto and Kiki and give yourself a real chance of comboing off? Or play Kitchen Finks, which has a good synergy with Resto and Kiki and does something you deck can't do (Brutality aside): gain life.
Your deck is interesting though. It's similar to what I'm playing (Kiki-Nahiri build posted in the last pages) but has some more controllish elements (Liliana, Terminate). However, I do wonder if it makes sense to run Terminate over Dreadbore in that list, with 4x Path and 4x Push you seem to have a lot of removal for creatures already anyway, Dreadbore at least would give you something more than that. But personally what I would play in that spot if I were you is a couple Kolaghan's Command. And this, out of my own experience playing something not so different, for 3 reasons: 1. Affinity is tough, and with Command you can turn the MU around; 2. Taking back combo pieces or value creatures like Wall is pretty good; 3. If you don't play Kolaghan's Command you lose to a resolved Ensnaring Bridge. Additionally, Pithing Needle and Chalice of the Void can create a lot of problems.
I also think you should find room for at the very least 2x Thoughtseize and I advise you to test 4x Canyon Slough, they're superb at fightning mana flood and together with Resto-Wall make the deck smoother.
I just put in the 4 Demigods last week so they may not stay but the thought is that they are just another threat that just doesn't stay dead. Playing K Command would further this idea. The idea behind adding them was to increase the clock of the deck as the deck is really slow in my meta. My meta is mostly non-affinity aggro and burn so like I said, they may not stay long.
I have 2 thoughtseize board. As for the land, I'll have to give that a try. Seems interesting.
I don't understand lists that aren't playing 4 Thoughtseize's and are instead playing 4 Inquisitions. Combo/Tron decks are some of the worst MU's for the deck and Thoughtseize is way better than IoK against them. Mardu has a lot of lifegain to mitigate the 2 life loss. Just seems odd to me.
In metas where burn is in high numbers, even with life gain, it isn't where you want to be. Besides, Inquisition hits everything thoughtseize does early whereas IoK is bad late and thoughtseize is just okay at that point.
I don't understand lists that aren't playing 4 Thoughtseize's and are instead playing 4 Inquisitions. Combo/Tron decks are some of the worst MU's for the deck and Thoughtseize is way better than IoK against them. Mardu has a lot of lifegain to mitigate the 2 life loss. Just seems odd to me.
In metas where burn is in high numbers, even with life gain, it isn't where you want to be. Besides, Inquisition hits everything thoughtseize does early whereas IoK is bad late and thoughtseize is just okay at that point.
But one could argue Thoughtseize is literally game-changing against a lot of the bad match-ups: Tron, Titanshift, Ad Nauseam, E Tron, Eldrazi, etc. It's not great against Burn but at worst you're losing 2 life to take out a 4 damage card or something like Eidolon. The upside is greater than the downsides imo.
I don't understand lists that aren't playing 4 Thoughtseize's and are instead playing 4 Inquisitions.
In my case I simply don't own any copies of Thoughtseize, I'd run it if I had it.
I've been giving more thought about Bitterblossom and I'm thinking of swapping them to try out Mirran Crusader. I saw someone mention that card either this page or last, I'll be trying it next FNM. I could also use help building the side deck if anyone feels like helping out. This is the list I'm taking next time.
Main deck I'm thinking about swapping a Lightning Bolt for a Fatal Push, Grim Lavamancer for something like Night's Whisper or Painful Truths, and a Blackcleave Cliffs for a different land. Side deck I need some work because too often I'm going against decks and only finding 1-3 cards at a time that are helpful. The decks that pop up the most are Grixis Death's Shadow, Infect, Boggles, Mardu Tokens/Control. Sometimes a deck like Saheeli Cat, Lantern Control, and Elves will pop up. The side I listed is what I'm thinking for next week, anybody got advice what to switch out?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
I don't understand lists that aren't playing 4 Thoughtseize's and are instead playing 4 Inquisitions.
In my case I simply don't own any copies of Thoughtseize, I'd run it if I had it.
I've been giving more thought about Bitterblossom and I'm thinking of swapping them to try out Mirran Crusader. I saw someone mention that card either this page or last, I'll be trying it next FNM. I could also use help building the side deck if anyone feels like helping out. This is the list I'm taking next time.
Main deck I'm thinking about swapping a Lightning Bolt for a Fatal Push, Grim Lavamancer for something like Night's Whisper or Painful Truths, and a Blackcleave Cliffs for a different land. Side deck I need some work because too often I'm going against decks and only finding 1-3 cards at a time that are helpful. The decks that pop up the most are Grixis Death's Shadow, Infect, Boggles, Mardu Tokens/Control. Sometimes a deck like Saheeli Cat, Lantern Control, and Elves will pop up. The side I listed is what I'm thinking for next week, anybody got advice what to switch out?
Squadron Hawks are unplayable. They used to be good in standard because you could carry swords with them.
I would recommend you don't play Bitterblossom. I've tested a lot of BW Tokens so I know how the card plays out. It's a very slow card (you attack for 1 on turn 4). You basically need to combo it with anthem and even then, it's a hindrance in the aggro and combo matches.
Right now your deck seems a bit unfocused. Running a bunch of removals isn't good enough without a clear proactive plan. You could go all in on Nahiri, which isn't bad honestly.
I disagree with you on Squadron Hawk being unplayable. It's been a fantastic performer ever since I put it in the deck, I've never been disappointed to draw into it, and it's multifunctional as both a pseudo-draw 3 spell and a stream of threats/chump blockers depending on the situation. You can even pitch it for the escalate on Collective Brutality if you want. Out of all the cards I've tried out in the 1-2 drop slot Squadron Hawk has been so consistent it isn't even funny. If I had to rank them based on my experiences it'd be like this:
I wish someone would try out the set of Squadron Hawk so I can see if my results are a fluke or if it's really something to consider maindeck worthy. If we're already trying out everything under the sun is it that big a stretch to try out Hawks?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
While I do agree that it effectively lets us run a 56 card deck (which is a good thing and has its own benefits). I absolutely disagree that it lets you see an extra card. In fact one has to act as if this card as if it doesn't exist. So when it lets us "see an extra card" we are really just paying 2 life to see the card we should have drawn anyways. (your 11 cards is secretly just 10 in disguise). In fact, now those "10 cards" have turned into either "10 cards and pay 2 life" or "9 cards and a dead brick in your hand", your choice.
I used to play a version of storm that was effectively only 48 cards (Gitaxian Probe, Manamorphose, Mishra's Bauble). Eventually I realized that none of those cards "existed" in my deck and they let me increase the density of everything else. But they had the drawback of making the mulligan decision much harder (often I would stare at 1 land, 3 non lands, and 3 I don't knows). I was paying some kind of "tax" to get to 48 effective cards. Now with Street Wraith instead of G-Probe, we are paying a small "life tax" to be able to run a 56 card deck. Most of the time this will be just fine for us, but there will be times when Cycling a Street Wraith will take us into bolt range (or bolt-snap-bolt) So every once in a while, this card that "doesn't exist" end up being a dead brick in your hand.
Without additional synergy (like growing Tarmogoyfs, and turning on Traverse), I don't see the benefits outweighing the drawbacks.
Uw Taking Turns
The Bad Moon
Small Mardu Midrange
Big Mardu Midrange
Grixis Waste Not Combo
Bw 8-Rack
Bw Midrange
The main synergy besides turning on DS is enabling Angler. I'm not convinced that's enough but I'll try it this week.
It's less important to lower your life total than you think. Most (though not all) opposing decks will hit you some, which is an enabler in itself. Also a painful enough manabase pulls a lot of weight. You would be surprised at what a Mana Confluence can do to your life total. Not to mention other incidental damage like Thoughtseize, Kolaghan's Command, or even occasionally a Lightning Bolt, plus Orzhov Charm, Dismember, and Gut Shot, even Vendetta can put in work.
The idea that Wraith adds consistency is kind of a joke when you compare it to say Serum Visions. You are slightly improving your odds of drawing any particular card. But with no way to manipulate or chose what you are drawing, this "slight edge" of running only 56 cards will help in only (1-(56/60))*100 = 6.7% of your draws. Compare that to serum visions ability to affect your next card drawn 100% of the time. This is similar to the misnomer that fetching produces an extremely slanted thinning effect, when in fact the true affects of thinning on a decks draws are very small. (Unless the hand goes super long its almost negligible)
You must not be running your shadows with Ranger of Eos? I typically see 3 and often see all 4 of my death Shadows in a given hand. Never have I been wanting for another chance to "draw" a Shadow. They tend to show up pretty consistently for the big push on turn 5....
Uw Taking Turns
The Bad Moon
Small Mardu Midrange
Big Mardu Midrange
Grixis Waste Not Combo
Bw 8-Rack
Bw Midrange
I like what the BR deck is doing but I'm not so sure my manabase can handle playing blood moon even though I have seen some lists try it.
(246-174-26)
(246-174-26)
First time posting here, I have been playing Mardu Midrange for the couple of months and I want to share you guys my work and gather some advices. Im on a more Jund style deck, tell me what you think!
Mardu midrange
Spells (19)
4 path to exile
2 lightning bolt
2 lightning helix
3 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
4 lingering souls
2 kolaghan's command
Creatures (12)
1 grim lavamancer
4 dark confident
3 tidehollow sculler
2 brimaz, king of oreskos *
1 Olivia voldaren *
1 butcher of the horde
Planes (4)
3 Liliana of the veil
1 Sorin solemn visitor
Enchantement (2)
2 bitterblossom
Lands (23)
3 concealed contryard
4 marsh flats
3 bloodstained mire
2 godless shrine
1 blood crypt
1 sacred foundry
1 vault of the archangel
2 shambling vents
1 fetid heath*
1 Eiganjo castle
2 swamp
1 plain
1 mountain
Side:
1 blessed alliance
2 fulminator mage
2 stony silence
2 thoughtseize
2 zealous persecution
3 rest in peace
1 damnation
2 collective brutality
I'm also shelving the Blade aspect of my deck. It's fun but I've been siding them out more and more frequently that I might as well not have Swords in the main and either have them in the side or out entirely. I'm thinking of going more Midrange with this for a creature lineup
4 Squadron Hawk
3 Butcher of the Horde
2 Thunderbreak Regent
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Stormbreath Dragon
I'm debating whether I want to go for 2 Nahiri, the Harbinger and 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or if I want to try out something in the 3 drop to accompany Lingering Souls. I'm debating dropping Bitterblossom for Night's Whisper or removal.
I beat Bogles and Mono Blue Tron and lost to Goblins.
(246-174-26)
MODERN
BRG Jund
WU Control
UBRG Dredge
BG Elves
G Tron
Affinity
Building:
WR Boros Burn
UB Tezzerator
I also play Legacy, and EDH. Follow me at MTGPackFoils on Twitter.
Current list; looking to replace the fast lands with 4 Blackcleave Cliffs when I get them.
(246-174-26)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Arid Mesa
3 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Mana Confluence
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Slayers' Stronghold
Creatures 17
4 Death's Shadow
1 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Dark Confidant
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Reckless Bushwhacker
1 Ranger of Eos
3 Street Wraith
2 Hammer of Purphoros
Spells 19
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Path to Exile
3 Fatal Push
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Lingering Souls
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Dismember
1 Pithing Needle
1 Crackling Doom
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Lost Legacy
1 Pyroclasm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Slagstorm
1 Harsh Mentor
1 Gut Shot
1 Rakdos Charm
I wasn't expecting this list to do well, and it didn't. I went 2-2 beating Burn and Affinity, losing to Abzan and Burn. The meta was pretty bad this week. It ended up being 3 Death's Shadow, 3 Burn, 2 Affinity, 4 Tron (3 Eldrazi, 1 U), 1 Abzan, 1 Taking Turns, 1 Scapeshift, 1 something.
Anyways, this list was meant to try a bunch of stuff so I could make a better list next week. So the stuff I liked, and stuff I didn't:
Dark Confidant was absolutely awful. I never wanted to cast it on T2, but that just lead to me doing nothing on T2. By the time I did want to cast it, it wouldn't impact the board and my life total would be low. Do not run this.
Tidehollow Sculler on the other hand was fantastic. I really liked being able to curve it on T2 and gain some tempo, and even late game it's not horrible. It seemed like a pretty reasonable 2 drop.
Ranger of Eos is ok but I can't figure out the right number. Two would be nice for consistency, but 1 is probably the most powerful since the second Ranger has much less to go get.
Street Wraith was every bit as bad as I thought it would be, perhaps even worse than that.
Hammer was fine, but never great. I never activated it, and it never did much.
In the sideboard Dismember was bad and so was Gut Shot but I was happy with the rest.
The lack of an Eidolon really stands out as the other DS enablers are so slow. The heavy discard plan seems to work well though and it and Eidolon are at odds with each other.
I'm going to play Mardu again next weekend, but I think I'm going to move away from the DS build for a little while. Too many of Mardu's strengths involve life gain, which is bad with Shadow.
I just put in the 4 Demigods last week so they may not stay but the thought is that they are just another threat that just doesn't stay dead. Playing K Command would further this idea. The idea behind adding them was to increase the clock of the deck as the deck is really slow in my meta. My meta is mostly non-affinity aggro and burn so like I said, they may not stay long.
I have 2 thoughtseize board. As for the land, I'll have to give that a try. Seems interesting.
(246-174-26)
In metas where burn is in high numbers, even with life gain, it isn't where you want to be. Besides, Inquisition hits everything thoughtseize does early whereas IoK is bad late and thoughtseize is just okay at that point.
(246-174-26)
But one could argue Thoughtseize is literally game-changing against a lot of the bad match-ups: Tron, Titanshift, Ad Nauseam, E Tron, Eldrazi, etc. It's not great against Burn but at worst you're losing 2 life to take out a 4 damage card or something like Eidolon. The upside is greater than the downsides imo.
I've been giving more thought about Bitterblossom and I'm thinking of swapping them to try out Mirran Crusader. I saw someone mention that card either this page or last, I'll be trying it next FNM. I could also use help building the side deck if anyone feels like helping out. This is the list I'm taking next time.
2 Arid Mesa
2 Marsh Flats
1 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Canyon Slough
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Concealed Courtyard
1 Inspiring Vantage
4 Squadron Hawk
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Thunderbreak Regent
3 Butcher of the Horde
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Ajani Vengeant
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
1 Collective Brutality
1 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
1 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lingering Souls
2 Stony Silence
2 Crackling Doom
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Slaughter Games
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Wrath of God
Main deck I'm thinking about swapping a Lightning Bolt for a Fatal Push, Grim Lavamancer for something like Night's Whisper or Painful Truths, and a Blackcleave Cliffs for a different land. Side deck I need some work because too often I'm going against decks and only finding 1-3 cards at a time that are helpful. The decks that pop up the most are Grixis Death's Shadow, Infect, Boggles, Mardu Tokens/Control. Sometimes a deck like Saheeli Cat, Lantern Control, and Elves will pop up. The side I listed is what I'm thinking for next week, anybody got advice what to switch out?
Squadron Hawks are unplayable. They used to be good in standard because you could carry swords with them.
I would recommend you don't play Bitterblossom. I've tested a lot of BW Tokens so I know how the card plays out. It's a very slow card (you attack for 1 on turn 4). You basically need to combo it with anthem and even then, it's a hindrance in the aggro and combo matches.
Right now your deck seems a bit unfocused. Running a bunch of removals isn't good enough without a clear proactive plan. You could go all in on Nahiri, which isn't bad honestly.
1. Squadron Hawk
2. Night's Whisper
3. Bitterblossom
4. Tidehollow Sculler
5. Manamorphose
6. Smuggler's Copter
7. Nether Traitor
8. Harsh Mentor
9. Pain Seer
I wish someone would try out the set of Squadron Hawk so I can see if my results are a fluke or if it's really something to consider maindeck worthy. If we're already trying out everything under the sun is it that big a stretch to try out Hawks?