Mardu has never lacked good, efficient removal. Push is good, but having access to bolt, terminate, and path are already better. Anyone considering removing terminates for pushes should reconsider their eldrazi and mono U Tron matchups. What we need is an effective clock in the two drop slot. We'll continue watching spoilers and unbannings, (Free Stoneforge!) here's hoping.
I think Fatal Push is an interesting option mostly to improve Blood Moon builds, since obviously Moon and Path are a nombo. I would certainly consider cutting Terminate for it, but not if I weren't running Path (like you said, Eldrazi is a common deck). I also don't see Push as a 4-of by any means, at least in this archetype, simply because we have so much good removal as is.
Push is a great tool for UBx controlling shells though.
My other pet deck is Sultai midrange, and needless to say there is a lot of buzz around push's spoil on those forums. As far as hidden stockpile goes, if the tokens were thopter instead of servos, ID be a lot more open to the idea. Evasion is just such a commodity in modern, I can't justify taking it over blossom. End step is SO much better than upkeep though, if only they flew...
Mardu has never lacked good, efficient removal. Push is good, but having access to bolt, terminate, and path are already better. Anyone considering removing terminates for pushes should reconsider their eldrazi and mono U Tron matchups. What we need is an effective clock in the two drop slot. We'll continue watching spoilers and unbannings, (Free Stoneforge!) here's hoping.
Yes it should be generally agreed Fatal Push doesn't add anything to Mardu. The card is reserved for decks that want a pseudo-lightning bolt but clearly we are not that deck.
Stoneforge Mystic would definitely make Mardu more viable. But one would question why it's not just as good in Abzan/ Esper / BW builds.
What Mardu needs is a threat that's three mana RBW that is insanely good. If we had Butcher of the Horde as a 3-drop would it be played in Mardu? My guess is that it wouldn't be. We need something more resilient but just as powerful offensively. Maybe like this for instance:
P/T 4/4
Lifelink
Haste
Vigilance
First Strike
It's obviously undercosted but still a fair card. Terminate/ Path/ revolted Push / Dismember kills it. Even though it dies to removal, I gave it haste so that it has an opportunity to stabilize us. It also mitigates the slowness of a 3-drop. I thought about giving it flying but I think that doesn't match well with Mardu colors - having the best removals - and that's more of a blue-color scheme. Vigilance also helps stabilize. Basically a superior Batterskull that cannot be recurred (well except with Kolaghan's). Tell me if you guys think this is too OP.
And I specifically want it to be 3-mana in Mardu colors otherwise Jund or Abzan can probably utilize it better.
Mardu has never lacked good, efficient removal. Push is good, but having access to bolt, terminate, and path are already better. Anyone considering removing terminates for pushes should reconsider their eldrazi and mono U Tron matchups. What we need is an effective clock in the two drop slot. We'll continue watching spoilers and unbannings, (Free Stoneforge!) here's hoping.
Yes it should be generally agreed Fatal Push doesn't add anything to Mardu. The card is reserved for decks that want a pseudo-lightning bolt but clearly we are not that deck.
Stoneforge Mystic would definitely make Mardu more viable. But one would question why it's not just as good in Abzan/ Esper / BW builds.
What Mardu needs is a threat that's three mana RBW that is insanely good. If we had Butcher of the Horde as a 3-drop would it be played in Mardu? My guess is that it wouldn't be. We need something more resilient but just as powerful offensively. Maybe like this for instance:
P/T 4/4
Lifelink
Haste
Vigilance
First Strike
It's obviously undercosted but still a fair card. Terminate/ Path/ revolted Push / Dismember kills it. Even though it dies to removal, I gave it haste so that it has an opportunity to stabilize us. It also mitigates the slowness of a 3-drop. I thought about giving it flying but I think that doesn't match well with Mardu colors - having the best removals - and that's more of a blue-color scheme. Vigilance also helps stabilize. Basically a superior Batterskull that cannot be recurred (well except with Kolaghan's). Tell me if you guys think this is too OP.
And I specifically want it to be 3-mana in Mardu colors otherwise Jund or Abzan can probably utilize it better.
Seems pretty solid
Maybe something like
Cost: RB
P/T 3/3
Haste
Lifelink
W: Gains pro-color of choice OR Vigiliance OR First Strike, only activate once per turn (or something like that)
You're not activating Tasigur's ability anytime soon in Mardu, you're better off running the Zombie Fish. You'd also need a way to fill your graveyard (Faithless Looting comes to mind). If you are afraid of Fatal Push, you can always play blood baron of vizkopa, which is resistant to all three of the best removal in modern.
Couldn't agree more with Jack Snow, midrange good-stuff needs to be exactly that. I would add Nahiri to the 4 drop list, as it adds the kind of clock that a midrange deck needs with Emmy. It just, un fortunately, excludes the running of Bob.
Regarding stoneforge, Mardu offers different tools/toys than Abzan, Esper, or Jeskai, which means different play styles are represented. Abzan has better creatures, but Nahiri threatens to just end the game in 3 turns if not dealt with. Esper controls better, but bolt is bolt. Jeskai doesn't have the discard I love and no other color combination can combine Kommand and Stoneforge. Hard to say which SFM color combo is best, but they all bring real power to the table, Mardu is no different.
Imagine playset (or three-ofs) of Bob, SFM, and young peezy backed up by Kommand. Low curve, great disruption, and a very real list of threats. Seems good.
The one thing mardu needs is a decent 2drop, nothing else, the 3drop and 4drop slots are filled with great cards, mardu just has issues closing the game on curve.
The reason why I defined a 3-drop is because if it is a 2-drop in our colors, another midrange deck can utilize it better most likely. The exception may be WR but to be on the safe side, it should be BWR.
Mardu has never lacked good, efficient removal. Push is good, but having access to bolt, terminate, and path are already better. Anyone considering removing terminates for pushes should reconsider their eldrazi and mono U Tron matchups. What we need is an effective clock in the two drop slot. We'll continue watching spoilers and unbannings, (Free Stoneforge!) here's hoping.
Yes it should be generally agreed Fatal Push doesn't add anything to Mardu. The card is reserved for decks that want a pseudo-lightning bolt but clearly we are not that deck.
Stoneforge Mystic would definitely make Mardu more viable. But one would question why it's not just as good in Abzan/ Esper / BW builds.
What Mardu needs is a threat that's three mana RBW that is insanely good. If we had Butcher of the Horde as a 3-drop would it be played in Mardu? My guess is that it wouldn't be. We need something more resilient but just as powerful offensively. Maybe like this for instance:
P/T 4/4
Lifelink
Haste
Vigilance
First Strike
It's obviously undercosted but still a fair card. Terminate/ Path/ revolted Push / Dismember kills it. Even though it dies to removal, I gave it haste so that it has an opportunity to stabilize us. It also mitigates the slowness of a 3-drop. I thought about giving it flying but I think that doesn't match well with Mardu colors - having the best removals - and that's more of a blue-color scheme. Vigilance also helps stabilize. Basically a superior Batterskull that cannot be recurred (well except with Kolaghan's). Tell me if you guys think this is too OP.
And I specifically want it to be 3-mana in Mardu colors otherwise Jund or Abzan can probably utilize it better.
Seems pretty solid
Maybe something like
Cost: RB
P/T 3/3
Haste
Lifelink
W: Gains pro-color of choice OR Vigiliance OR First Strike, only activate once per turn (or something like that)
Should be RW otherwise Jund will just get better as a deck. Now that Fatal Push is out, even Tarmogoyf is not as resilient to common removals as it used to be.
Because Mardu is a threat light deck, the card has to be very good offensively and defensively. It is going to die to Path to Exile and Fatal Push unless we give it protection so it has to be a good tempo play at the very least. Which is why I gave it Haste and Lifelink. I think your white ability is good but it kind of makes it a 4-drop if we need to drop it with protection active.
I've been a Jund player since the beginning of modern and what I can say without any doubt is that a midrange in order to be competitive has to be an "all bombs deck". In decks like jund or abzan being a bomb is more important than being synergic.
What's the mainly problem of Mardu? The lack of a good 2 mana drop. BG have got: tarmogoyf, scavenging ooze and grim flayer while us...
A list of "all bombs card"
Drop 1: Grim Lavamancer
Drop 2: Dark Confidant. Pyromancer is cool with lingering, maybe it could be added.
(Blossom or stockpile are strong but situational and a lot worse than tarmo / scooze / flayer on their own. Abbot isn't a bomb, neither the soulfire. Soulfire makes the mu against aggro very good, but that's an already winnable mu)
Drop 3: Lingering, Liliana veil, liliana last hope, brimaz.
Drop 4: GIDEON ally of zendikar, chandra torch of defiance, sorin solemn visitor, pia and kiran, kalitas maybe the butcher too.
After the printing of fatal push maybe pw will be prefered as a 4-mana wincon because lose a butcher due to fatal push is a big tempo loss.
With lingering + pyromancer the best way imho in order to win a game with this deck is gideon and I'll test a version with 3x of them.
Gideon makes 0/7/7 race on his own and now could be protected also with collective brutality a BOMB against burn/infect and an overcosted duress when we are afraid of a pte on gideon but it does the job. We have so many bombs like BGx but... we could have synergy
Pyromancer is not good in Modern. I agree Gideon AZ is a great card but you can't build your deck around something you can't even play 4-of and with no card filtering.
Couldn't agree more with Jack Snow, midrange good-stuff needs to be exactly that. I would add Nahiri to the 4 drop list, as it adds the kind of clock that a midrange deck needs with Emmy. It just, un fortunately, excludes the running of Bob.
Regarding stoneforge, Mardu offers different tools/toys than Abzan, Esper, or Jeskai, which means different play styles are represented. Abzan has better creatures, but Nahiri threatens to just end the game in 3 turns if not dealt with. Esper controls better, but bolt is bolt. Jeskai doesn't have the discard I love and no other color combination can combine Kommand and Stoneforge. Hard to say which SFM color combo is best, but they all bring real power to the table, Mardu is no different.
Imagine playset (or three-ofs) of Bob, SFM, and young peezy backed up by Kommand. Low curve, great disruption, and a very real list of threats. Seems good.
Playing Nahiri with creatures doesn't lend itself to good synergy. You're diluting your deck with creatures rather than control elements to protect Nahiri. And if you opt for just a few copies of Nahiri she is not worth playing unless you go all-in on the Emrakul package.
Mardu gives Kolaghan's Command synergy to Stoneforge Mystic but that's where the advantage ends. Getting a Batterskull into play is more in align with the beat down plan that Abzan represents. I also don't believe Jeskai is a good candidate precisely because SFM is one of the few threats worth killing - therefore, making spot removal effective. Abzan offers a wide range of creatures you must answer while Mardu does not. With curve adjustment, they can even run 4 Bob now that they have fastlands and Fatal Push.
Mardu being able to play lingering souls, sfm, and a pile of removal, and not many real creatures means its likely favored in midrange mirrors. Jund can beat batterskull but can't beat lingering souls, where abzan can play their own souls but don't get kolaghan's.
Having discard + liliana is obviously good against control, and mardu has all of the good sideboard options white gives (stony silence, rest in peace, etc) like abzan, without giving up all the removal for small creature decks.
It even gets helix and batterskull for burn.
If SFM is unbanned, mardu honestly becomes very viable.
Just because abzan can also play SFM doesn't make mardu strictly worse.
A good 2 drop threat is the major thing mardu is missing, and filling in that hole is worth more than another 2 drop threat is to abzan, who already has flayer, goyf, scooze, etc.
I would like to play this deck. I will be more often against my friend's decks: Evo Kiki, Abzan Collected, Grixis Delver without Pyro, Jund without Flayer, Ad Nauseam, Valakut Breach, Dredge,Infect and Affinity.
Creatures are here for the card advantage. Abbot of Keral Keep is not played before turn 4 or 5 because of Lingering Souls but it can give a spot removal. Bob is a must have. If it is not killed, it's a Big advantage and the mana cost of the Others cards is tuned to it.
Instants are all spot removal. Lightning Bolt and Path to Exile because they are the best. And I play the New card Fatal Push. In modern, it will kill a lot of creatures for only 1 Mana.
Revolt is maybe difficult to activate. There are 7 fetchs in the deck, but a lot of tokens on the battlefield will die because of removals or attack of opponent's creature. Maybe I would take 1 Terminate and 3 Fatal Push, because it will be hard against Grixis decks.
Sorceries are discard cards essentialy. They are effective against combo/control decks and I will need them for the turn 1-2 to be more proactive.
There are 8 Token generators. Bitterblossom needs to be play turn 2-3, it's a very good generator. Lingering Souls is a powerful card.
Sorin is like a kill. With Bitterblossom on the battlefield, it's a strong association. And tokens can protect it to reach the -6.
I play 23 lands. I tested some games on the internet. It can be difficult to have 4 lands at turn 4, What do you think about 23 or 24 ?
Sideboard is not finished. I need all advices for it.
So What do you think about this Mardu Token with card advantage ? I'm here to hear all things that can improve my deck.
Looks fun. I play a similar version but without any creatures.
Intangible Virtue is a bomb for token builds. It essentially doubles our clock and lets us attack without worrying about keeping back blockers (most decks can't block fliers)
I don't think it's a good idea to have creatures in a token build, especially if the creatures are not creating tokens. One of Tokens' primary strengths is that it nullifies opponents' spot removal.
I think Bob is highly overrated and unnecessary for our deck as he's got a big fat bullseye on him. Jund doesn't care so much if their Bob gets zapped because they can follow up with something like Lili or Goyf. We can't afford to do nothing on Turn 2.
Bitterblossom struggles for the same reason. Particularly against aggro, Bob and Bitterblossom do not do enough for us fast enough.
Lightning Helix is good for mitigating life loss from Bob, BB, Shocks/Fetches, Thoughtseize, etc.
I personally wouldn't run 4 Paths because giving away a basic land can actually put us significantly behind. Maybe run something like 3-4 Bolt/1-3Helix/2-3Push/2-3Path.
Sideboard looks strong. Zealous Persecution is really good against Infect/Affinity/Merfolk/Elves and sometimes helps kill a Bogle.
I think 23 lands are enough, though I have gotten land-screwed before. Luckily, Tokens can stay alive on 1-2 lands for a few turns.
I haven't tested it yet, but I suspect Mogg War Marshal and Extricator of Sin might be solid cards. MWM makes sure you survive Turn 2/3/4 usually, and Extricator of Sin can take off a lot quicker than BitterBlossom. Turning on delirium should be easy enough because graveyard instant/sorcery/land should be a given, and MWM is probably the easiest value creature to get into the grave if they don't kill our Sorin/blow up an enchantment. These also have good synergy with Fatal Push
Hey guys, I've been working on my mardu deck on and off for a few months now and try to play it as often as I can. I've pretty much settled on a core 55 cards that I can't imagine changing out and about a 10 card sideboard and I'm looking for suggestions to fill in the last couple slots.
Here are some cards I've tried out and haven't been overly impressed with: Collective Brutality (would rather just run another Kolaghan's Command), Zealous Persecution, Grim Lavamancer (hasn't really done much for me, been running 1), Damnation (probably worth having 1-2 in sideboard but wasn't worth it in mainboard.
Cards I'm contemplating: 3-4 Soulfire Grand Master (I run a fair amount of burn in the deck, 4 bolts and 3 helixs (healing 6 O.O), Kolaghan's Command and 1-2 Crackling Doom.
Also do you think it'd be worthwhile adding 2 Inquistions to sideboard so I can switch out Thoughtseize if needed after game 1? And maybe add another Stony Silence. I really dislike having a 1 of of certain cards, they never show up when you need them.
Personally, I play 4 IoK: 2 TS maindeck. IoK usually hits most cards in the format that we're worried about and it feels pretty bad to Fetch>Shock>Thoughtseize.
Definitely play 2 Stony Silence in the board
Zealous Persecution can be a board wipe against weenie aggro decks, but it's probably not worth running with so few creatures in your deck.
I personally like Terminate over Dreadbore mainboard because I find there are few PWs I can't deal with besides Tron's, especially with our access to burn.
You may want to consider the recently spoiled Fatal Push
I think Myth Realized could be a good card for your deck
I'm curious as to which matchups you'd side in Painful Truths and whether you might like Night's Whisper instead.
I know you said you're pretty set on the main 55, but I think Dark Confidant is overrated (although I've never played him). More often than not, he seems like a "Pay 1B, skip your Turn 2" because he is such a hot removal target.
Yea I thought about switching to 4 IoK and 2 TS before since I rarely ever grab something over 4 cost when I'm searching hands. ZP would be a lot better if I played a bigger token producing deck but for now it really hasn't done too much.
O.O I don't know how I haven'tseen Myth Realized before, I should definitely try it out. Painful Truths are mainly there to switch in against heavy removal/burn decks instead of using the Bobs. And the main reason I use Bob is because it was my favorite card years ago when I first got into magic and I was finally able to get a playset of them a little while ago so I've been trying to make a deck that can use my playset of them, which is what led me to Mardu lol.
8Rack is a tough match up due to having so many dead cards game one, and having ensnaring bridge main. However, if we can force the game into a stall our Planeswalkers or Shambling Vents can get us to victory.
Game 1: After a lucky Inquisition picked off my opponent's only Rack in hand, we emptied our hands. She played Ensnaring Bridge and Necrogen Mists, and I dropped Liliana of the Veil. Nothing much happened until I ticked her up to seven and ultimated, making my opponent choose between her lands or her artifacts/enchantments. After missing her second land drop her hand filled up allowing me to attack with Shambling Vent and Spirits tokens.
SIDEBOARD: -2 anger of the gods, -4 path to exile, +2 Wall of Omens, +2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation, +2 Timely Reinforcements
Game 2: I keep a one land hand knowing I wouldn't be able to cast most of it anyway, and keep the thoughtseize to hopefully snipe a rack. She lets me go first and it turns out she didn't have a rack effect in hand, so I grab the Smallpox to keep me from getting mana screwed. Luckily I hit all my land drops and manage a Nahiri right when she is able to drop two Racks. She redirects 8 damage from those racks over two turns, and I find my Engineered explosives to clear the racks. She drops a bridge, I play liliana, and the game takes the same turn as the first game. I eventually ultimate liliana, she sacrifices her lands and I use spirit tokens to win.
Match 2: Jeskai Control
I'm generally confident in this match-up, and it seemed my opponent was still new with the deck, and had made some budget choices.
Game 1: I fetch, shock, thoughtseize and follow it up with a Dark Confidant the next turn. Clearly not looking to keep too much life this round. He bolts it, and we both play passively for awhile. I have both lightning helix in my hand so I'm not too worried about being burned out. He starts sending his bolts at me, and I begin to attack with a shambling vent. Game comes to a close when I drop Nahiri and he drops Gideon Jura. By +2ing he's effectively nullifying Nahiri's ultimate by directing it at Gideon. I drop confidant and pass, he +2s again. I draw Liliana with bob and attack gideon. I think seeing liliana scared him so he mistakenly -2'd to kill bob. This let me ultimate Nahiri for the win.
SIDEBOARD: -2 anger of the gods, -1 engineered explosives, -2 path to exile, +2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation, +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Game 2: So sadly my sideboard choices were not the most relevant due my opponents deck choices, but I still think most of the time this would be my go-to sideboard. I keep a hand with Inquisition and six lands, two of which are vents. I see his hand is mainly countermagic so I just attack with vents repeatedly until we are both at eight mana. He drops his own Sun's champion and I realise I have no out to it, but decide to stay in the game. I play some lingering souls, and try to trade profitably with a Wall of Omens and my two vents. I drop two dark confidants and thoughtseize, seeing he has two Timely Reinforcements in hand and another Sun's Champion. Jeez. Luckily I'm at 25 health, so I'm not afraid of my confidants, which allow me to grab a lili. I start aggressively targeting his elspeth, chumping my confidants when I fall to 10 life. I force him to discard his timely reinforcements and he plays his second Elspeth. I play Nahiri and pick away at the new Elspeth. He keeps dividing his attacks between me and my planeswalkers and so I'm able block profitably while gaining life and keeping Liliana at one loyalty, forcing him to attack again. Finally after the second Elspeth goes down he draws into lands I ultimate Nahiri for the win.
Match 3: Bant Spirits
Game 1: I get an early Lili on the board to -2 away a Mausoleum Wanderer, and next turn he discards his Geist of St. Traft. My hand is all removal so I keep going 1 for 1 with his creatures, leaving us both hellbent after a Collected Company. Lili on the field I do my best to keep things unfair, but his second CoCo hits Spell Queller and Drogskol Captain. He backs them up with Gavony Township as I cast lingering souls. I follow up with Nahiri and use the Spirits defensively. Once I get close to ultimate he keeps Spell Queller untapped to defend against emrakul, and I -2 away the captain. He plays Nobel Hierarch and I path his queller, leaving a wall of omens up for defence. He doesn't draw into anything and I win with Nahiri.
SIDEBOARD: -1 Nahiri, the Harbinger, -2 Wall of Omens, +1 Wrath of God, +2 Crackling Doom
Game 2: He starts with a Heirarch which I bolt and passes turn two and three. I recognise that he probably has Spell Queller but drop a liliana into it anyway. He does have the queller and takes my lili, next turn playing a mausoleum wanderer and attacking with the queller. Sadly that is exactly what I want, as I play Nahiri the next turn, -2 to get my lili back, and -2 with lili to clear the board. After this he doesn't draw into anything more than a ratchet bomb which he uses on liliana, and finally flashes a rattlechains into play. I bolt it, which he spellquellers, which I then helix, and he concedes.
Conclusion:
As always Nahiri does solid work, but Liliana of the Veil ends up being the MVP of the night. Special mentions to Shambling Vents for gaining me easily more than 40 life total through all the games. My only changes to my deck list that I'm considering is replacing the third rest in peace for either Painful Truths or Phyrexian Arena.
That's it for now! Let me know if you have any questions or comments!
I'm very excited to try Kari Zev, Skyship Raider in Mardu. I think a lot about brewing a more equipment-oriented build of Mardu with a sword (BW, UR or even both), Batterskull and maybe even Basilisk Collar (that nasty combo with Grim Lavamancer), and Kari Zev looks like a Geist-level equipment-holder for Mardu colors. Also her Monkey token can be sacrificed with a new interesting Hidden Stockpile, I surely gonna try it instead of Bitterblossom. Gonna have some fun.
Also I very like the idea of using Smuggler's Copter, because most of tokens strategies suffer from post-side Anger of the Gods and other Damnations, but Copters and manlands survive the most sweepers. Your own sideboard Angers are also not so self-punishing. I like Copter even more than Dark Confidant, who is usually not so good in token decks with 22 and less lands (I play usually 21 with a single 2-drop), but card filtering in Mardu feels more exciting - every topdecked card gives business. If you play Stockpile, you can control topdecks for more reliable looting. This also allows to replace some Helixes with Fatal Push, and Push is godlike in such builds with sacrifice outlet and self-exiling Monkey tokens, hehe. Looks like the new set brings some interesting brewing ideas to us.
I like Kari Zev but don't ever mistake her as geist level. You will just be in for disappointment. I'm not saying she's not good. She's just not geist.
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Modern: BG eldrazi midrange BWG Abzan value evolution BUG BUG Midrange
Looks fun. I play a similar version but without any creatures.
Intangible Virtue is a bomb for token builds. It essentially doubles our clock and lets us attack without worrying about keeping back blockers (most decks can't block fliers)
I don't think it's a good idea to have creatures in a token build, especially if the creatures are not creating tokens. One of Tokens' primary strengths is that it nullifies opponents' spot removal.
I think Bob is highly overrated and unnecessary for our deck as he's got a big fat bullseye on him. Jund doesn't care so much if their Bob gets zapped because they can follow up with something like Lili or Goyf. We can't afford to do nothing on Turn 2.
Bitterblossom struggles for the same reason. Particularly against aggro, Bob and Bitterblossom do not do enough for us fast enough.
Lightning Helix is good for mitigating life loss from Bob, BB, Shocks/Fetches, Thoughtseize, etc.
I personally wouldn't run 4 Paths because giving away a basic land can actually put us significantly behind. Maybe run something like 3-4 Bolt/1-3Helix/2-3Push/2-3Path.
Sideboard looks strong. Zealous Persecution is really good against Infect/Affinity/Merfolk/Elves and sometimes helps kill a Bogle.
I think 23 lands are enough, though I have gotten land-screwed before. Luckily, Tokens can stay alive on 1-2 lands for a few turns.
I haven't tested it yet, but I suspect Mogg War Marshal and Extricator of Sin might be solid cards. MWM makes sure you survive Turn 2/3/4 usually, and Extricator of Sin can take off a lot quicker than BitterBlossom. Turning on delirium should be easy enough because graveyard instant/sorcery/land should be a given, and MWM is probably the easiest value creature to get into the grave if they don't kill our Sorin/blow up an enchantment. These also have good synergy with Fatal Push
Happy brewing!
I have already played Tokens with mardu colours or BW, I don't remember, maybe both.
Today, I want a Tokens Deck with Dark Confident because I love this card. I didn't like Intangible Virtue.
Turn 2, it's not what we want. Like Jund or Junk, we want a strong card which scare the opponent. But I agree, Bob will die immediately and the spot removal could have killed only 1 token, that is better.
The problem, according to the discussion, is that we need a Tarmo in mardu's colours.
Discard cards can help to take the removals and so let alive Bob. And there are decks without removals then Bob turn 2 will be very efficient.
Or maybe we can replace Bob post side against decks with a lot of spot removals.
Or a deck with these spot removals, will it replace them post side ? "A Tokens deck ?!, I will enter my Anger of gods and/or Damnation and remove my Terminate . Hum, there are Dark confident , it's a problem, I will need always my spot removals." It's what I think about Jund post side game for exemple. Lightning Helix, I don't like it because its mana cost is different than that we want turns 1 and 2. Turn 1 = Discard card so we need black. We will search a swamp with a fetch. If there is ligthning helix, we will search a ravland because we want red or white turn 1 and the other turn 2,- 3 Life points, and if we want play Thoughtseize, it's -5 life points. It's why I don't play this card.
For instant cards, I am very simple : 3 playsets. I have really never thought to change this.
It's fine to dislike Intangible Virtue, but it's probably the best card in Tokens. Discard (to take their threat, not removal)>Virtue>Souls>Sorin usually=GG against most decks. T2 BB or Bob> T3 Souls (that's the only 3-drop in your deck right now) just doesn't have the same impact.
Mardu needs a Goyf if it's trying to be midrange. If the goal is to be a good midrange deck, why not just play Jund? This issue is frequently brought up in this thread. Jund can T1 Discard>T2 Goyf>T3 Lili and swing with a potentially 5/6 Goyf. Mardu can never hope to match that kind of efficiency unless Wizards unbans Stoneforge Mystic.
I'd argue that Tokens is a different style than traditional midrange and anti-synergistic with Bob. I know what it's like to really want to play a card, but I don't think you're going to have much success running Bob in Tokens. Sure, he gets you card advantage, but the extra cards you're drawing aren't going to help you win. Bob, Abbott, and Shambling Vent aren't beefy finishers and BB/Souls are reallllyyyy slow without Virtue or Sorin. Your current build, IMO, lacks inevitability and will struggle to close out games. If you're looking for a Token/midrange combination, I recommend something like ThePurpleGhost's build a few posts up.
Aren't 4x Copters too much ? I would probably go with 2x.
Veteran Motorist seems not bad but I would probably like Asylum Visitor instead for potential card draw (and you can "madness" it into play with copter).
Also with all the tokens having a finisher like Butcher of the Horde seems like a good idea as if it's unanswered (and discard can help here) it closes the game (or stabilizes with lifelink) very quickly.
Push is a great tool for UBx controlling shells though.
Yes it should be generally agreed Fatal Push doesn't add anything to Mardu. The card is reserved for decks that want a pseudo-lightning bolt but clearly we are not that deck.
Stoneforge Mystic would definitely make Mardu more viable. But one would question why it's not just as good in Abzan/ Esper / BW builds.
What Mardu needs is a threat that's three mana RBW that is insanely good. If we had Butcher of the Horde as a 3-drop would it be played in Mardu? My guess is that it wouldn't be. We need something more resilient but just as powerful offensively. Maybe like this for instance:
P/T 4/4
Lifelink
Haste
Vigilance
First Strike
It's obviously undercosted but still a fair card. Terminate/ Path/ revolted Push / Dismember kills it. Even though it dies to removal, I gave it haste so that it has an opportunity to stabilize us. It also mitigates the slowness of a 3-drop. I thought about giving it flying but I think that doesn't match well with Mardu colors - having the best removals - and that's more of a blue-color scheme. Vigilance also helps stabilize. Basically a superior Batterskull that cannot be recurred (well except with Kolaghan's). Tell me if you guys think this is too OP.
And I specifically want it to be 3-mana in Mardu colors otherwise Jund or Abzan can probably utilize it better.
Seems pretty solid
Maybe something like
Cost: RB
P/T 3/3
Haste
Lifelink
W: Gains pro-color of choice OR Vigiliance OR First Strike, only activate once per turn (or something like that)
There are also:
Hangarback Walker, Asylum Visitor, Smuggler's Copter (not exactly a creature), Pack Rat/Cryptbreaker and maybe also Seeker of the Way and Figure of Destiny.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Regarding stoneforge, Mardu offers different tools/toys than Abzan, Esper, or Jeskai, which means different play styles are represented. Abzan has better creatures, but Nahiri threatens to just end the game in 3 turns if not dealt with. Esper controls better, but bolt is bolt. Jeskai doesn't have the discard I love and no other color combination can combine Kommand and Stoneforge. Hard to say which SFM color combo is best, but they all bring real power to the table, Mardu is no different.
Imagine playset (or three-ofs) of Bob, SFM, and young peezy backed up by Kommand. Low curve, great disruption, and a very real list of threats. Seems good.
The reason why I defined a 3-drop is because if it is a 2-drop in our colors, another midrange deck can utilize it better most likely. The exception may be WR but to be on the safe side, it should be BWR.
Bitterblossom is not good without Intangible Virtue trust me I play tokens.
Should be RW otherwise Jund will just get better as a deck. Now that Fatal Push is out, even Tarmogoyf is not as resilient to common removals as it used to be.
Because Mardu is a threat light deck, the card has to be very good offensively and defensively. It is going to die to Path to Exile and Fatal Push unless we give it protection so it has to be a good tempo play at the very least. Which is why I gave it Haste and Lifelink. I think your white ability is good but it kind of makes it a 4-drop if we need to drop it with protection active.
Pyromancer is not good in Modern. I agree Gideon AZ is a great card but you can't build your deck around something you can't even play 4-of and with no card filtering.
Playing Nahiri with creatures doesn't lend itself to good synergy. You're diluting your deck with creatures rather than control elements to protect Nahiri. And if you opt for just a few copies of Nahiri she is not worth playing unless you go all-in on the Emrakul package.
Mardu gives Kolaghan's Command synergy to Stoneforge Mystic but that's where the advantage ends. Getting a Batterskull into play is more in align with the beat down plan that Abzan represents. I also don't believe Jeskai is a good candidate precisely because SFM is one of the few threats worth killing - therefore, making spot removal effective. Abzan offers a wide range of creatures you must answer while Mardu does not. With curve adjustment, they can even run 4 Bob now that they have fastlands and Fatal Push.
Having discard + liliana is obviously good against control, and mardu has all of the good sideboard options white gives (stony silence, rest in peace, etc) like abzan, without giving up all the removal for small creature decks.
It even gets helix and batterskull for burn.
If SFM is unbanned, mardu honestly becomes very viable.
Just because abzan can also play SFM doesn't make mardu strictly worse.
A good 2 drop threat is the major thing mardu is missing, and filling in that hole is worth more than another 2 drop threat is to abzan, who already has flayer, goyf, scooze, etc.
Looks fun. I play a similar version but without any creatures.
Intangible Virtue is a bomb for token builds. It essentially doubles our clock and lets us attack without worrying about keeping back blockers (most decks can't block fliers)
I don't think it's a good idea to have creatures in a token build, especially if the creatures are not creating tokens. One of Tokens' primary strengths is that it nullifies opponents' spot removal.
I think Bob is highly overrated and unnecessary for our deck as he's got a big fat bullseye on him. Jund doesn't care so much if their Bob gets zapped because they can follow up with something like Lili or Goyf. We can't afford to do nothing on Turn 2.
Bitterblossom struggles for the same reason. Particularly against aggro, Bob and Bitterblossom do not do enough for us fast enough.
Lightning Helix is good for mitigating life loss from Bob, BB, Shocks/Fetches, Thoughtseize, etc.
I personally wouldn't run 4 Paths because giving away a basic land can actually put us significantly behind. Maybe run something like 3-4 Bolt/1-3Helix/2-3Push/2-3Path.
Sideboard looks strong. Zealous Persecution is really good against Infect/Affinity/Merfolk/Elves and sometimes helps kill a Bogle.
I think 23 lands are enough, though I have gotten land-screwed before. Luckily, Tokens can stay alive on 1-2 lands for a few turns.
I haven't tested it yet, but I suspect Mogg War Marshal and Extricator of Sin might be solid cards. MWM makes sure you survive Turn 2/3/4 usually, and Extricator of Sin can take off a lot quicker than BitterBlossom. Turning on delirium should be easy enough because graveyard instant/sorcery/land should be a given, and MWM is probably the easiest value creature to get into the grave if they don't kill our Sorin/blow up an enchantment. These also have good synergy with Fatal Push
Happy brewing!
Yea I thought about switching to 4 IoK and 2 TS before since I rarely ever grab something over 4 cost when I'm searching hands. ZP would be a lot better if I played a bigger token producing deck but for now it really hasn't done too much.
O.O I don't know how I haven'tseen Myth Realized before, I should definitely try it out. Painful Truths are mainly there to switch in against heavy removal/burn decks instead of using the Bobs. And the main reason I use Bob is because it was my favorite card years ago when I first got into magic and I was finally able to get a playset of them a little while ago so I've been trying to make a deck that can use my playset of them, which is what led me to Mardu lol.
Firstly here is my list:
2 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Wall of Omens
3 Dark Confidant
2 Lightning Helix
4 Lingering Souls
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Godless Shrine
4 Shambling Vent
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Polluted Delta
1 Inspiring Vantage
3 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Crackling Doom
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wrath of God
2 Wall of Omens
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
Match 1: 8Rack
8Rack is a tough match up due to having so many dead cards game one, and having ensnaring bridge main. However, if we can force the game into a stall our Planeswalkers or Shambling Vents can get us to victory.
Game 1: After a lucky Inquisition picked off my opponent's only Rack in hand, we emptied our hands. She played Ensnaring Bridge and Necrogen Mists, and I dropped Liliana of the Veil. Nothing much happened until I ticked her up to seven and ultimated, making my opponent choose between her lands or her artifacts/enchantments. After missing her second land drop her hand filled up allowing me to attack with Shambling Vent and Spirits tokens.
SIDEBOARD: -2 anger of the gods, -4 path to exile, +2 Wall of Omens, +2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation, +2 Timely Reinforcements
Game 2: I keep a one land hand knowing I wouldn't be able to cast most of it anyway, and keep the thoughtseize to hopefully snipe a rack. She lets me go first and it turns out she didn't have a rack effect in hand, so I grab the Smallpox to keep me from getting mana screwed. Luckily I hit all my land drops and manage a Nahiri right when she is able to drop two Racks. She redirects 8 damage from those racks over two turns, and I find my Engineered explosives to clear the racks. She drops a bridge, I play liliana, and the game takes the same turn as the first game. I eventually ultimate liliana, she sacrifices her lands and I use spirit tokens to win.
Match 2: Jeskai Control
I'm generally confident in this match-up, and it seemed my opponent was still new with the deck, and had made some budget choices.
Game 1: I fetch, shock, thoughtseize and follow it up with a Dark Confidant the next turn. Clearly not looking to keep too much life this round. He bolts it, and we both play passively for awhile. I have both lightning helix in my hand so I'm not too worried about being burned out. He starts sending his bolts at me, and I begin to attack with a shambling vent. Game comes to a close when I drop Nahiri and he drops Gideon Jura. By +2ing he's effectively nullifying Nahiri's ultimate by directing it at Gideon. I drop confidant and pass, he +2s again. I draw Liliana with bob and attack gideon. I think seeing liliana scared him so he mistakenly -2'd to kill bob. This let me ultimate Nahiri for the win.
SIDEBOARD: -2 anger of the gods, -1 engineered explosives, -2 path to exile, +2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation, +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Game 2: So sadly my sideboard choices were not the most relevant due my opponents deck choices, but I still think most of the time this would be my go-to sideboard. I keep a hand with Inquisition and six lands, two of which are vents. I see his hand is mainly countermagic so I just attack with vents repeatedly until we are both at eight mana. He drops his own Sun's champion and I realise I have no out to it, but decide to stay in the game. I play some lingering souls, and try to trade profitably with a Wall of Omens and my two vents. I drop two dark confidants and thoughtseize, seeing he has two Timely Reinforcements in hand and another Sun's Champion. Jeez. Luckily I'm at 25 health, so I'm not afraid of my confidants, which allow me to grab a lili. I start aggressively targeting his elspeth, chumping my confidants when I fall to 10 life. I force him to discard his timely reinforcements and he plays his second Elspeth. I play Nahiri and pick away at the new Elspeth. He keeps dividing his attacks between me and my planeswalkers and so I'm able block profitably while gaining life and keeping Liliana at one loyalty, forcing him to attack again. Finally after the second Elspeth goes down he draws into lands I ultimate Nahiri for the win.
Match 3: Bant Spirits
Game 1: I get an early Lili on the board to -2 away a Mausoleum Wanderer, and next turn he discards his Geist of St. Traft. My hand is all removal so I keep going 1 for 1 with his creatures, leaving us both hellbent after a Collected Company. Lili on the field I do my best to keep things unfair, but his second CoCo hits Spell Queller and Drogskol Captain. He backs them up with Gavony Township as I cast lingering souls. I follow up with Nahiri and use the Spirits defensively. Once I get close to ultimate he keeps Spell Queller untapped to defend against emrakul, and I -2 away the captain. He plays Nobel Hierarch and I path his queller, leaving a wall of omens up for defence. He doesn't draw into anything and I win with Nahiri.
SIDEBOARD: -1 Nahiri, the Harbinger, -2 Wall of Omens, +1 Wrath of God, +2 Crackling Doom
Game 2: He starts with a Heirarch which I bolt and passes turn two and three. I recognise that he probably has Spell Queller but drop a liliana into it anyway. He does have the queller and takes my lili, next turn playing a mausoleum wanderer and attacking with the queller. Sadly that is exactly what I want, as I play Nahiri the next turn, -2 to get my lili back, and -2 with lili to clear the board. After this he doesn't draw into anything more than a ratchet bomb which he uses on liliana, and finally flashes a rattlechains into play. I bolt it, which he spellquellers, which I then helix, and he concedes.
Conclusion:
As always Nahiri does solid work, but Liliana of the Veil ends up being the MVP of the night. Special mentions to Shambling Vents for gaining me easily more than 40 life total through all the games. My only changes to my deck list that I'm considering is replacing the third rest in peace for either Painful Truths or Phyrexian Arena.
That's it for now! Let me know if you have any questions or comments!
Also I very like the idea of using Smuggler's Copter, because most of tokens strategies suffer from post-side Anger of the Gods and other Damnations, but Copters and manlands survive the most sweepers. Your own sideboard Angers are also not so self-punishing. I like Copter even more than Dark Confidant, who is usually not so good in token decks with 22 and less lands (I play usually 21 with a single 2-drop), but card filtering in Mardu feels more exciting - every topdecked card gives business. If you play Stockpile, you can control topdecks for more reliable looting. This also allows to replace some Helixes with Fatal Push, and Push is godlike in such builds with sacrifice outlet and self-exiling Monkey tokens, hehe. Looks like the new set brings some interesting brewing ideas to us.
BRG Shamans
WUBRGElementals
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
It's fine to dislike Intangible Virtue, but it's probably the best card in Tokens. Discard (to take their threat, not removal)>Virtue>Souls>Sorin usually=GG against most decks. T2 BB or Bob> T3 Souls (that's the only 3-drop in your deck right now) just doesn't have the same impact.
Mardu needs a Goyf if it's trying to be midrange. If the goal is to be a good midrange deck, why not just play Jund? This issue is frequently brought up in this thread. Jund can T1 Discard>T2 Goyf>T3 Lili and swing with a potentially 5/6 Goyf. Mardu can never hope to match that kind of efficiency unless Wizards unbans Stoneforge Mystic.
I'd argue that Tokens is a different style than traditional midrange and anti-synergistic with Bob. I know what it's like to really want to play a card, but I don't think you're going to have much success running Bob in Tokens. Sure, he gets you card advantage, but the extra cards you're drawing aren't going to help you win. Bob, Abbott, and Shambling Vent aren't beefy finishers and BB/Souls are reallllyyyy slow without Virtue or Sorin. Your current build, IMO, lacks inevitability and will struggle to close out games. If you're looking for a Token/midrange combination, I recommend something like ThePurpleGhost's build a few posts up.
Veteran Motorist seems not bad but I would probably like Asylum Visitor instead for potential card draw (and you can "madness" it into play with copter).
Also with all the tokens having a finisher like Butcher of the Horde seems like a good idea as if it's unanswered (and discard can help here) it closes the game (or stabilizes with lifelink) very quickly.
Wouldn't Bitterblossom work better here than Young Pyromancer since it is harder to remove ?