What is the difference between running bob and not running bob?
What are the pros and cons of running bob?
Which have an overall better game against most of the meta decks?
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Take out both copies of Sorin, it's a very sub-optimal choice in this deck.
2x collective brutality in the main is too much, I'd move one to the side.
You should probably shave 1x windswept and add 1x marsh flat; black is more important to the deck.
6x graveyard hate in the side is enormous. Is your meta full of graveyard decks?
Try to up your path to 3
ya.. my meta is filled with a lot of graveyard decks now. that's why i have 1x Grafdigger’s Cage, 2x Nihil Spellbomb and 3x Surgical Extraction.
sorin did helped me won a lot of my games though, if i were to remove him, i'm not sure what to replace him with. suggesstion?
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Take out both copies of Sorin, it's a very sub-optimal choice in this deck.
2x collective brutality in the main is too much, I'd move one to the side.
You should probably shave 1x windswept and add 1x marsh flat; black is more important to the deck.
6x graveyard hate in the side is enormous. Is your meta full of graveyard decks?
Try to up your path to 3
ya.. my meta is filled with a lot of graveyard decks now. that's why i have 1x Grafdigger’s Cage, 2x Nihil Spellbomb and 3x Surgical Extraction.
sorin did helped me won a lot of my games though, if i were to remove him, i'm not sure what to replace him with. suggesstion?
Take out both copies of Sorin, it's a very sub-optimal choice in this deck.
2x collective brutality in the main is too much, I'd move one to the side.
You should probably shave 1x windswept and add 1x marsh flat; black is more important to the deck.
6x graveyard hate in the side is enormous. Is your meta full of graveyard decks?
Try to up your path to 3
ya.. my meta is filled with a lot of graveyard decks now. that's why i have 1x Grafdigger’s Cage, 2x Nihil Spellbomb and 3x Surgical Extraction.
sorin did helped me won a lot of my games though, if i were to remove him, i'm not sure what to replace him with. suggesstion?
I'm not a fan of sorin either, he just doesnt do much on an empty board.
I think you need to replace him with the 4th lotv and the 2nd scavenging ooze.
You can then cut the 3rd extraction and move the 2nd brutality to the board, letting you play the 24th land which should be a stirring wildwood. I'm a big advocate for 24 lands because you need to curve out and grim flayer makes it so that you never draw a land mid-late. Speaking of your manabase, I think you should have 4 flats and only 1 Heath you need to be able to fetch basic swamp consistently.
I'm a big fan of a 4/1 push/path split, I just think path isn't as necessary right now. And you should look into gaddock teeg for your board it's really solid right now.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Hmmm, I'm going to disagree with you on the 1 path thing. Outside of Reid Duke, who basically just makes every Abzan deck a worse version of Jund, no one really agree's with that.
Gaddock Teeg is always nice in theory but he doesn't really work out.
Hmmm, I'm going to disagree with you on the 1 path thing. Outside of Reid Duke, who basically just makes every Abzan deck a worse version of Jund, no one really agree's with that.
Gaddock Teeg is always nice in theory but he doesn't really work out.
What do you really need path for that liliana can't handle? Wurmcoils and Gideon's, sometimes kitchen kinks. There just isn't a huge need for exile right now, and the ramp is a significant draw back. Besides, I don't think we need a huge array of removal right now anyway, most of the format is full of decks with just a handful of threats.
Sure teeg dies to everything, but if he doesn't die, he locks certain decks out. Shuts off company and chord out of company, Karn and ugin out of tron, cryptic, verdict, and all walkers out of jeskai, gifts, past, and empty out of storm, ad nauseoum, scapeshift (which is a rediculously hard card to beat otherwise), Hell it even hits conflagrate out of dredge. He is super powerful and we have ways to recur him like Liliana the last hope.
So when do you run Confidant? is it primarily an inclusion belonging to metas past and forgotten? I'm just curious.
I don't like confidant in abzan, because of souls increasing our cmc 3+ count compared to Jund. Jund can also close quicker than us, so the lifeloss doesn't matter as much to them.
I think flayer is far better for our deck. He not only stops you from flooding out mid game, but he dumps souls at the same time, which is just gross, not to mention the synergy with Liliana the last hope. he becomes a 4/4 after connecting just once most of the time (and I'm not running anything like bauble to support him). My creature suite right now is 4 goyf, 4 flayer, 2 ooze, and 2 rhino.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I’m thinking of having both dark confidant and flayer though.. 3 of each or 3 dark confidant and 4 flayer.. flayer can set up your next draw from dark confidant and dump out lingering souls..
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I don't have a third copy of Treetop, truthfully I never really expected to ever play 3+ copies of it in a deck, therefore I only had 2 laying around my GBx box for years unplayed.
I dislike murderous cut with Bob, period. I do agree ramping never feels good, it's fine as a miser
The Bauble is so random, I understand it's to power up Grim. I also wanted to find a way to jam in a second, cheap boardwipe, so I put the spellbomb from the board and fixed the dilemma.
The deck is running 3x Collective Brutality which makes the 1x thoughtseize unappealing.
I haven't really played much GBx in the recent months, I don't really expect to do well tonight. The list really piqued my curiosity though
I don't have a third copy of Treetop, truthfully I never really expected to ever play 3+ copies of it in a deck, therefore I only had 2 laying around my GBx box for years unplayed.
I dislike murderous cut with Bob, period. I do agree ramping never feels good, it's fine as a miser
The Bauble is so random, I understand it's to power up Grim. I also wanted to find a way to jam in a second, cheap boardwipe, so I put the spellbomb from the board and fixed the dilemma.
The deck is running 3x Collective Brutality which makes the 1x thoughtseize unappealing.
I haven't really played much GBx in the recent months, I don't really expect to do well tonight. The list really piqued my curiosity though
How much does playing only 2 artifact in the main make a difference with triggering Grim Flayer?
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I don't know how to feel about the deck, I don't think my testing satisfied me. There were some good players there tonight, but it was smallish and I feel like I only faced one really good player
Beat Grixis Shadow 2-1. I had to mull to 5 game one and lost quickly. Game 2 he kept a hand he shouldn't have and was stuck on 1 mana while I had 2x pulses and 2x lingering souls. Game 3 I was in control, he blew up Scooze, Goyf and Grim, but then he lost to a resolved LOTV. I feel like he was just a so so grixis player so testing didn't feel sufficient.
Beat a Grixis Delver deck 2-1, he doesn't seem experienced enough to me. I was pretty unhappy with my testing when he tried to "bolt Lilly on the stack".
Lost to Grixis Shadow. He absolutely crushed me 0-2. I think I kept a poor opening hand of 2x Goyf, 1x Grim in the dark. This always seems ok in the dark but when I think about it hands like these are almost always punished. Game 2 when I discarded him he had a great hand with Izzet, K-Command, Shadow. I resolved LOTV and he K-Commanded it and then K-Commanded it his turn. Then he snap'd into K Command into my lingering souls. It was so brutal that it kinda made me feel bad as a player.
Beat a BG Rock player who had strange card decisions and wasn't as familiar with the deck so it didn't feel like an accomplishment beating him 2-0.
I really don't think playing zero Paths is correct.
I will say, Treetop Village was so good, I absolutely would play that over Vents if not for the fact we need the color fixing. That card was so good.
Pretty undecided about the deck, Grim Flayer still feels like a very underwhelming card, I think I only untapped with him once, maybe twice.
I played in a 32 person FNM, capped at 4 rounds paid out based on record. I ran a mixture of BG lists that I saw, but with my own SB cards. The SB was literally a mess, with 2 Obstinate Baloth, 1 Kitchen Finks, 1 Grafdigger's Cage, 1 Nihil Spellbomb, 1 Tireless Tracker, 4 Fulminator Mage, 2 Damnation, 1 Naturalize, 1 Back to Nature, and 1 Surgical Extraction.
Round 1 vs. UG Infect. This is the kind of matchup I want. I played this guy a month ago when we were both on different decks - me on Knightfall and him on 4 Color Shadow. He beat me then, knocking me to 1-2 and out of prize. He said he doesn't get to play much because of school, but his lines were very good. He knows how to play. I mull to 5 cards, but he stalls on only Green mana with Forest, Dryad Arbor, and Pendelhaven. I kill some creatures and get Liliana of the Veil going. He got me low with a Dryad Arbor, but Ghost Quarter took care of that. In the next game, it is rough for him. I literally have all of the answers and land a Dark Confidant and take over. An Infect creature late is not enough because he now has to block and I have a half grip. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. BR Rat Moon. He basically beat me at my own game. I Thoughtseize a card on turn 1, hoping that he won't draw 2 more colored lands to play Chandra, Torch of Defiance. He draws removal for my 2 Dark Confidant on consecutive turns and RIIIIIDES the Chandra to victory when I draw nothing of consequence. The next game is similar, but I'm on 7 cards. He just outvalues me, kills my Dark Confidant with a top decked Terminate. Then when we're both out of gas, he draws 2 straight Goblin Rabblemaster and I draw land and Liliana of the Veil. 0-2.
Round 3 vs. Junk Midrange. I basically draw the nut hand against him. 3 Tarmogoyfs this game with a balanced attack. In the next game, he mulls to 6 and stalls on 3 land. I get way out ahead and then get 3 Clues with Tireless Tracker. He makes a mistake of waiting till my upkeep to Path to Exile my Tracker, which allows me to Ghost Quarter myself for an extra Clue. Rough beats for him. We drove here together and are usually running Titanshift. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Affinity. In the first game after he wins the die roll, it seems okay to me, but he keeps dropping enough creatures to stop me from casting Liliana of the Veil for value. He gets there with a million artifacts and a Cranial Plating on Etched Champion. I Inquisition of Kozilek to see his last card. Another Cranial Plating, scoop even without it. In the next game, I just basically destroy everything he has and get 2 early Tarmogoyf to crunch him. The final game is grindy as ****. He has Pia's Revolution out on turn 2. I pay some life after Damnation on an Etched Champion and Memnite. He floods out. I end up getting really low as another Etched Champion slaps me. Any time, Cranial Plating is game, but I get there by doing Abrupt Decay on his Memnite, it goes back to hand because of now a 2nd Pia's Revolution. Then I top deck my 3rd Ghost Quarter and Quarter his potential Inkmoth Nexus blocker for my 5/6 Tarmogoyf (-1/-1 counter because of another Nexus that blocked it previously). Lethal, whew! 2-1.
I finish 3-1 and in the money. I think I made the incorrect SB decisions in Round 2, but honestly I got outdrawn. Each time I took a spell, he drew Terminate the following turn. Six Terminate in 2 games.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I'm playing BG Rock (Steve Hatto's version from GP) and have a lot of trouble with Burn which is common in my town. What would you recommend as sideboard against Burn?
I'm playing BG Rock (Steve Hatto's version from GP) and have a lot of trouble with Burn which is common in my town. What would you recommend as sideboard against Burn?
Collective Brutality?
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I'm playing BG Rock (Steve Hatto's version from GP) and have a lot of trouble with Burn which is common in my town. What would you recommend as sideboard against Burn?
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
What are the pros and cons of running bob?
Which have an overall better game against most of the meta decks?
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
Creature [11]
4x Grim Flayer
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Siege Rhino
4x Tarmogoyf
Planeswalker [6]
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Instant [7]
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Fatal Push
2x Path to Exile
Sorcery [13]
2x Collective Brutality
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Thoughtseize
1x Forest
1x Plains
2x Swamp
4x Blooming Marsh
1x Godless Shrine
2x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Shambling Vent
1x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
1x Grafdigger’s Cage
2x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Fulminator Mage
3x Stony Silence
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Damnation
1x Maelstrom Pulse
This is what I’m playing right now. What do you guys think?
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
2x collective brutality in the main is too much, I'd move one to the side.
You should probably shave 1x windswept and add 1x marsh flat; black is more important to the deck.
6x graveyard hate in the side is enormous. Is your meta full of graveyard decks?
Try to up your path to 3
ya.. my meta is filled with a lot of graveyard decks now. that's why i have 1x Grafdigger’s Cage, 2x Nihil Spellbomb and 3x Surgical Extraction.
sorin did helped me won a lot of my games though, if i were to remove him, i'm not sure what to replace him with. suggesstion?
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
If you're meta is that filled with GY then you do you, the sideboard is meant for everyone's meta
The Sorins should absolutely be cut though
I'm not a fan of sorin either, he just doesnt do much on an empty board.
I think you need to replace him with the 4th lotv and the 2nd scavenging ooze.
You can then cut the 3rd extraction and move the 2nd brutality to the board, letting you play the 24th land which should be a stirring wildwood. I'm a big advocate for 24 lands because you need to curve out and grim flayer makes it so that you never draw a land mid-late. Speaking of your manabase, I think you should have 4 flats and only 1 Heath you need to be able to fetch basic swamp consistently.
I'm a big fan of a 4/1 push/path split, I just think path isn't as necessary right now. And you should look into gaddock teeg for your board it's really solid right now.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Gaddock Teeg is always nice in theory but he doesn't really work out.
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
What do you really need path for that liliana can't handle? Wurmcoils and Gideon's, sometimes kitchen kinks. There just isn't a huge need for exile right now, and the ramp is a significant draw back. Besides, I don't think we need a huge array of removal right now anyway, most of the format is full of decks with just a handful of threats.
Sure teeg dies to everything, but if he doesn't die, he locks certain decks out. Shuts off company and chord out of company, Karn and ugin out of tron, cryptic, verdict, and all walkers out of jeskai, gifts, past, and empty out of storm, ad nauseoum, scapeshift (which is a rediculously hard card to beat otherwise), Hell it even hits conflagrate out of dredge. He is super powerful and we have ways to recur him like Liliana the last hope.
I don't like confidant in abzan, because of souls increasing our cmc 3+ count compared to Jund. Jund can also close quicker than us, so the lifeloss doesn't matter as much to them.
I think flayer is far better for our deck. He not only stops you from flooding out mid game, but he dumps souls at the same time, which is just gross, not to mention the synergy with Liliana the last hope. he becomes a 4/4 after connecting just once most of the time (and I'm not running anything like bauble to support him). My creature suite right now is 4 goyf, 4 flayer, 2 ooze, and 2 rhino.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I’m thinking of having both dark confidant and flayer though.. 3 of each or 3 dark confidant and 4 flayer.. flayer can set up your next draw from dark confidant and dump out lingering souls..
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
His list isn't typical, but it's Reid Duke, and every dedicated GBx player should watch his stuff.
No path to Exile is very odd and rare, but you can consider it.
With you being new to Abzan I'm a little hesitant for you to watch that video though, just because the list isn't what Junk really looks like
Few changes
-1 Murderous Cut
+1 Path
-1 Mishra's Bauble
+1 Nihil Spellbomb
-1 Treetop Village
+1 Shambling Vents
-1 Bob
+1 Flayer
Sideboard change
-1 Thoughtseize
+1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
+1 Flaying Tendrils
I don't have a third copy of Treetop, truthfully I never really expected to ever play 3+ copies of it in a deck, therefore I only had 2 laying around my GBx box for years unplayed.
I dislike murderous cut with Bob, period. I do agree ramping never feels good, it's fine as a miser
The Bauble is so random, I understand it's to power up Grim. I also wanted to find a way to jam in a second, cheap boardwipe, so I put the spellbomb from the board and fixed the dilemma.
The deck is running 3x Collective Brutality which makes the 1x thoughtseize unappealing.
I haven't really played much GBx in the recent months, I don't really expect to do well tonight. The list really piqued my curiosity though
How much does playing only 2 artifact in the main make a difference with triggering Grim Flayer?
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
I don't know how to feel about the deck, I don't think my testing satisfied me. There were some good players there tonight, but it was smallish and I feel like I only faced one really good player
Beat Grixis Shadow 2-1. I had to mull to 5 game one and lost quickly. Game 2 he kept a hand he shouldn't have and was stuck on 1 mana while I had 2x pulses and 2x lingering souls. Game 3 I was in control, he blew up Scooze, Goyf and Grim, but then he lost to a resolved LOTV. I feel like he was just a so so grixis player so testing didn't feel sufficient.
Beat a Grixis Delver deck 2-1, he doesn't seem experienced enough to me. I was pretty unhappy with my testing when he tried to "bolt Lilly on the stack".
Lost to Grixis Shadow. He absolutely crushed me 0-2. I think I kept a poor opening hand of 2x Goyf, 1x Grim in the dark. This always seems ok in the dark but when I think about it hands like these are almost always punished. Game 2 when I discarded him he had a great hand with Izzet, K-Command, Shadow. I resolved LOTV and he K-Commanded it and then K-Commanded it his turn. Then he snap'd into K Command into my lingering souls. It was so brutal that it kinda made me feel bad as a player.
Beat a BG Rock player who had strange card decisions and wasn't as familiar with the deck so it didn't feel like an accomplishment beating him 2-0.
I really don't think playing zero Paths is correct.
I will say, Treetop Village was so good, I absolutely would play that over Vents if not for the fact we need the color fixing. That card was so good.
Pretty undecided about the deck, Grim Flayer still feels like a very underwhelming card, I think I only untapped with him once, maybe twice.
Round 1 vs. UG Infect. This is the kind of matchup I want. I played this guy a month ago when we were both on different decks - me on Knightfall and him on 4 Color Shadow. He beat me then, knocking me to 1-2 and out of prize. He said he doesn't get to play much because of school, but his lines were very good. He knows how to play. I mull to 5 cards, but he stalls on only Green mana with Forest, Dryad Arbor, and Pendelhaven. I kill some creatures and get Liliana of the Veil going. He got me low with a Dryad Arbor, but Ghost Quarter took care of that. In the next game, it is rough for him. I literally have all of the answers and land a Dark Confidant and take over. An Infect creature late is not enough because he now has to block and I have a half grip. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. BR Rat Moon. He basically beat me at my own game. I Thoughtseize a card on turn 1, hoping that he won't draw 2 more colored lands to play Chandra, Torch of Defiance. He draws removal for my 2 Dark Confidant on consecutive turns and RIIIIIDES the Chandra to victory when I draw nothing of consequence. The next game is similar, but I'm on 7 cards. He just outvalues me, kills my Dark Confidant with a top decked Terminate. Then when we're both out of gas, he draws 2 straight Goblin Rabblemaster and I draw land and Liliana of the Veil. 0-2.
Round 3 vs. Junk Midrange. I basically draw the nut hand against him. 3 Tarmogoyfs this game with a balanced attack. In the next game, he mulls to 6 and stalls on 3 land. I get way out ahead and then get 3 Clues with Tireless Tracker. He makes a mistake of waiting till my upkeep to Path to Exile my Tracker, which allows me to Ghost Quarter myself for an extra Clue. Rough beats for him. We drove here together and are usually running Titanshift. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Affinity. In the first game after he wins the die roll, it seems okay to me, but he keeps dropping enough creatures to stop me from casting Liliana of the Veil for value. He gets there with a million artifacts and a Cranial Plating on Etched Champion. I Inquisition of Kozilek to see his last card. Another Cranial Plating, scoop even without it. In the next game, I just basically destroy everything he has and get 2 early Tarmogoyf to crunch him. The final game is grindy as ****. He has Pia's Revolution out on turn 2. I pay some life after Damnation on an Etched Champion and Memnite. He floods out. I end up getting really low as another Etched Champion slaps me. Any time, Cranial Plating is game, but I get there by doing Abrupt Decay on his Memnite, it goes back to hand because of now a 2nd Pia's Revolution. Then I top deck my 3rd Ghost Quarter and Quarter his potential Inkmoth Nexus blocker for my 5/6 Tarmogoyf (-1/-1 counter because of another Nexus that blocked it previously). Lethal, whew! 2-1.
I finish 3-1 and in the money. I think I made the incorrect SB decisions in Round 2, but honestly I got outdrawn. Each time I took a spell, he drew Terminate the following turn. Six Terminate in 2 games.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Collective Brutality?
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
Kitchen Finks is another possibility. Feed the Clan used to get some scattered mention.
There are others that aren't springing to mind.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn