Is this thread both Rock and Abzan combined for historical reasons? I notice Jund has its own thread; seems like Rock and Abzan are just as similar to each other as they are to Jund.
Are you being stupid on purpose? Am I missing the joke?
Your tone seems hostile. I think it would be more productive to just give your opinion on a card/strategy opposed to chastising someone for an idea. I love these forums for the collective effort to make decks stronger. Comments like this will just drive people away from these forums and even the game.
He only embalms it. I'm pretty sure they were being sarcastic.
The idea behind it was that it's a card that can be discarded with Collective Brutality or Liliana and then on the back side of it, it is a 4 mana 6/6 trampler that couldn't be countered.
The idea behind it was that it's a card that can be discarded with Collective Brutality or Liliana and then on the back side of it, it is a 4 mana 6/6 trampler that couldn't be countered.
My problem here is that there are only seven enablers for the discard. I don't think that's enough. I could be wrong - I often am - but I guess the only way to know is to try it. Or maybe do some statistics, I don't know.
I think the more important question around Honored Hydra or any new pet card is what is its purpose? What is it for/what match up does it improve over just running a regular creatures and spell suite? I mean, looking over the list I see you've cut all copies of Inquisition and have opted to run a playset of Thoughtseize. Why? Sure, Thoughtseize hits more things, but it has real drawbacks.
You're giving up important card advantage without Bob and/or Tireless Tracker. You're worse against Burn without Inquisition/Rhino/Kitchen Finks. You're softer to company decks without Kalitas. Etc. etc. Heck, with the change to the Planeswalker uniqueness rule there's an argument to slap some Liliana, the Last Hope in the main, too.
In return you're getting a 6/6 trampler that can be fatal pushed, and relies on the graveyard--which is already a weakness of ours. I don't think that's worth it. You said in your original post that you wanted to try something different, but this isn't really something different. It's almost a stock Abzan list swapping out some of the better cards for a not-as-good card, and one without a clear purpose as to what it adds to the deck that other, better cards don't already do.
I'm all for experimentation. That's how decks evolve and grow. But every time you want to add a card to an established list you really have to interrogate yourself on what its purpose is. What does it add to the deck and how does it improve bad matchups and not just make good matchups better.
A discussion of all this, and why you choose to include it after thinking this all through, is what was missing from your initial post. Including details like that in a decklist post will help engender the type of constructive criticism you're looking for.
Played Rock for a few weeks, at first it was janky and interesting and wiped Storm (Abzan pretty good at that too, but Rock better). Had better games against all variants of Tron but still lost all but one E-Tron outing. Ironically, Flayer is what I missed most even though he is rockable but better with LS. Felt very bad losing to Jund.
When I returned to Abzan, fell in love again, mostly with Souls and also with Rhino, even as a one-of. Was not long ago King Duke explained how he would go far out of his way to jam LS right now.
Ultimately, I felt Rock just ticked up a few matchups and ticked down a few others, Abzan right back the other way a few percentage points, so ultimately as usual it's what you expect to see. Unfortunately where we are that's still 30% Tron variants. The biggest positive takeaways... will play more Scooze and having played 2x Tireless Tracker so that I actually drew it occasionally, got a taste of just how good TT is.
I think the more important question around Honored Hydra or any new pet card is what is its purpose? What is it for/what match up does it improve over just running a regular creatures and spell suite? I mean, looking over the list I see you've cut all copies of Inquisition and have opted to run a playset of Thoughtseize. Why? Sure, Thoughtseize hits more things, but it has real drawbacks.
You're giving up important card advantage without Bob and/or Tireless Tracker. You're worse against Burn without Inquisition/Rhino/Kitchen Finks. You're softer to company decks without Kalitas. Etc. etc. Heck, with the change to the Planeswalker uniqueness rule there's an argument to slap some Liliana, the Last Hope in the main, too.
In return you're getting a 6/6 trampler that can be fatal pushed, and relies on the graveyard--which is already a weakness of ours. I don't think that's worth it. You said in your original post that you wanted to try something different, but this isn't really something different. It's almost a stock Abzan list swapping out some of the better cards for a not-as-good card, and one without a clear purpose as to what it adds to the deck that other, better cards don't already do.
I'm all for experimentation. That's how decks evolve and grow. But every time you want to add a card to an established list you really have to interrogate yourself on what its purpose is. What does it add to the deck and how does it improve bad matchups and not just make good matchups better.
A discussion of all this, and why you choose to include it after thinking this all through, is what was missing from your initial post. Including details like that in a decklist post will help engender the type of constructive criticism you're looking for.
Yes I'm Giving up Inquisition of Kozilek but have you read the card Collective Brutality? That card gains you 7-8 life against a burn deck. It also helps us pitch cards that aren't as good or not worth playing. I'm not saying Honored Hydra is the greatest thing out there. I'm simply saying that a 6/6 Trampler for 4 that can't be countered is a decent enough card that I wanted to try it out. I made some sacrifices in the deck to make this card work with a little more synergy in the deck. I cut inquisitions for Collective Brutality. being a 2 mana spell though made me uptick on the number of Thoughtseize. I cut Dark Confidant for 2 reasons (1) Flipping over a 6 drop doesn't do much for you (2) Grim Flayer Has better synergy with the deck.
All I'm saying is that instead of jumping to conclusions about it, really look at the deck from a step back and tell me what you think. Don't just jump on the "This is stupid and you're stupid for trying it" bandwagon. I am ok with taking constructive criticism but I want you guys to see what I was seeing when i built the deck.
Warning: This post will discuss a card from Ixolon. If you try to avoid spoilers, skip this one.
Hi again.
I have been having fun with the rock deck that did well in Bermingham. Being two coloured unlocks less self damage and you can afford to run 4 BoBs.
Imagine my suprice when I saw the spoiler for Ruin Raider. While obviusly worse, it could unlock dark confidant 5 to 8. To support this strategy the deck would need to be suplied with more lifegain cards: Kitchen Finks, Scavengine Ooze and Collective Brutalaty. I really wanne try a deck like that.
Now, the trick question: How many creatures would the deck need to have before justefying Aether Vial? The reason I find it hard is that Treetop Village is such a good manland to support the startegy.
Option 2: How about Birds of Paradise for mana akceleration? In a worst case senario you can attack with it and trigger Ruin Raider.
Edit: When putting together the list I notice that he compete with Tierless Tracker. Tierless Tracker also has some amazing potensial with Aether Vial. I think I will need to brew a bit with this.
Option 2: How about Birds of Paradise for mana akceleration? In a worst case senario you can attack with it and trigger Ruin Raider.
No, worse case scenario, is you draw it turn 15 during a grindy game and feel real bad about your deck-building decisions.
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"The worst part isn't the pain, or the smell, or even the fear of death. It's hearing the clatter of bone on stone and knowing the bones are yours."BRG
That can be said of most lands, and aether vial is even worse in the senario you posted. With 8 card draw engines in the deck I find your propasossion unlikly. If the deck has trackers it will have even more carddraw.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
How many creatures would the deck need to support a vial? I know eternal command had a very low creature count compared to tradisional vial strategies.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
I'm wondering why you want to be playing Vial in BGx at all? We don't need our creatures at instant speed, aside from Rhino they're all low CMC anyways so we always have the mana to cast them. And our entire game plan is to bring the game to topdeck wars and win through pure value, so we won't really be hanging on to cards for Vial
I need help with my abzan, I recently finished it and not played it yet.
My list is based on the Top 8 GP Sao Paulo.
My biggest doubts: The mana base and Painful Truths.
My Meta:
Grixis Shadow
Valakut (oh yeah, it's terrible)
Burn
Coloress Eldrazi and bant eldrazi
Jund
Affinity
Merfolk
Are you being stupid on purpose? Am I missing the joke?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Your tone seems hostile. I think it would be more productive to just give your opinion on a card/strategy opposed to chastising someone for an idea. I love these forums for the collective effort to make decks stronger. Comments like this will just drive people away from these forums and even the game.
He only embalms it. I'm pretty sure they were being sarcastic.
My problem here is that there are only seven enablers for the discard. I don't think that's enough. I could be wrong - I often am - but I guess the only way to know is to try it. Or maybe do some statistics, I don't know.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
You're giving up important card advantage without Bob and/or Tireless Tracker. You're worse against Burn without Inquisition/Rhino/Kitchen Finks. You're softer to company decks without Kalitas. Etc. etc. Heck, with the change to the Planeswalker uniqueness rule there's an argument to slap some Liliana, the Last Hope in the main, too.
In return you're getting a 6/6 trampler that can be fatal pushed, and relies on the graveyard--which is already a weakness of ours. I don't think that's worth it. You said in your original post that you wanted to try something different, but this isn't really something different. It's almost a stock Abzan list swapping out some of the better cards for a not-as-good card, and one without a clear purpose as to what it adds to the deck that other, better cards don't already do.
I'm all for experimentation. That's how decks evolve and grow. But every time you want to add a card to an established list you really have to interrogate yourself on what its purpose is. What does it add to the deck and how does it improve bad matchups and not just make good matchups better.
A discussion of all this, and why you choose to include it after thinking this all through, is what was missing from your initial post. Including details like that in a decklist post will help engender the type of constructive criticism you're looking for.
When I returned to Abzan, fell in love again, mostly with Souls and also with Rhino, even as a one-of. Was not long ago King Duke explained how he would go far out of his way to jam LS right now.
Ultimately, I felt Rock just ticked up a few matchups and ticked down a few others, Abzan right back the other way a few percentage points, so ultimately as usual it's what you expect to see. Unfortunately where we are that's still 30% Tron variants. The biggest positive takeaways... will play more Scooze and having played 2x Tireless Tracker so that I actually drew it occasionally, got a taste of just how good TT is.
I clearly missed that. That's significant.
Still, if I'm going to play a four-drop in Rock (and I'm probably not going back to Junk), it's going to be Rex. But I'm just wacky that way.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Yes I'm Giving up Inquisition of Kozilek but have you read the card Collective Brutality? That card gains you 7-8 life against a burn deck. It also helps us pitch cards that aren't as good or not worth playing. I'm not saying Honored Hydra is the greatest thing out there. I'm simply saying that a 6/6 Trampler for 4 that can't be countered is a decent enough card that I wanted to try it out. I made some sacrifices in the deck to make this card work with a little more synergy in the deck. I cut inquisitions for Collective Brutality. being a 2 mana spell though made me uptick on the number of Thoughtseize. I cut Dark Confidant for 2 reasons (1) Flipping over a 6 drop doesn't do much for you (2) Grim Flayer Has better synergy with the deck.
All I'm saying is that instead of jumping to conclusions about it, really look at the deck from a step back and tell me what you think. Don't just jump on the "This is stupid and you're stupid for trying it" bandwagon. I am ok with taking constructive criticism but I want you guys to see what I was seeing when i built the deck.
Also, 2 CMC =\= 1 CMC. Collective Brutality is a great supplement to our discard suite, it is not a replacement for Inquisition.
At no time did I call you stupid. I was nothing but constructive in my criticism. Don't conflate the responses of other, less charitable, posters.
Hi again.
I have been having fun with the rock deck that did well in Bermingham. Being two coloured unlocks less self damage and you can afford to run 4 BoBs.
Imagine my suprice when I saw the spoiler for Ruin Raider. While obviusly worse, it could unlock dark confidant 5 to 8. To support this strategy the deck would need to be suplied with more lifegain cards: Kitchen Finks, Scavengine Ooze and Collective Brutalaty. I really wanne try a deck like that.
Now, the trick question: How many creatures would the deck need to have before justefying Aether Vial? The reason I find it hard is that Treetop Village is such a good manland to support the startegy.
Option 2: How about Birds of Paradise for mana akceleration? In a worst case senario you can attack with it and trigger Ruin Raider.
Edit: When putting together the list I notice that he compete with Tierless Tracker. Tierless Tracker also has some amazing potensial with Aether Vial. I think I will need to brew a bit with this.
No, worse case scenario, is you draw it turn 15 during a grindy game and feel real bad about your deck-building decisions.
I'm honestly just pretty confused by the question
I need help with my abzan, I recently finished it and not played it yet.
My list is based on the Top 8 GP Sao Paulo.
My biggest doubts: The mana base and Painful Truths.
My Meta:
Grixis Shadow
Valakut (oh yeah, it's terrible)
Burn
Coloress Eldrazi and bant eldrazi
Jund
Affinity
Merfolk
My List:
http://deck.tk/0G2U06RD