You don't have to have Bauble in that kind of build - though I like that you can use to control your confidant flips a little.
I wouldn't go nuts with Spellbombs maindeck - they don't do a lot in many match ups. The cantrip is nice, but it costs 2, and you might just wind up shrinking your Goyf.
What would you say the best variant is to bring in an open meta right now? My LGS runs big tournies with a healthy mix of archetypes but the top 3 decks are drazi (both bant and tron), Death's Shadow, and Collected Company.
What would you say the best variant is to bring in an open meta right now? My LGS runs big tournies with a healthy mix of archetypes but the top 3 decks are drazi (both bant and tron), Death's Shadow, and Collected Company.
Based on what you've described, I would recommend something like the BG deck that Sol Malka ran at SCG. The ghost quarters help vs Eldrazi and Tron while Bob and Tracker can help you grind vs DS and other fair decks without leaning too heavily on your GY like the Traverse lists with Flayer.
@Arkaedrian : If you look back a page or two, I posted a report of my relative success (good win rate, no top 8s or anything) with a Noble Confidant Abzan build. I think Noble Hierarch IS what we want to be doing right now. The ability to turn 2 Liliana of the Veil gives tremendous game against Big Mana decks as does Turn 2 Lingering Souls against Affinity. Noble also lets you win goyf wars and takes huge advantage of Treetop Village and Grim Flayer's trample. Since you will be cutting some lands to run her, she is not even that bad of a top deck.
Dark Confidant synergizes well with Noble also. Being able to cast 2 spells a turn plays right into a bob/liliana deck and lets you develop your board while staying hellbent.
Mishra's Baubles are great. They work well with Dark Confidant (choosing which to trigger first), Grim Flayer, Goyf, and Fetch lands. They also work well with Thoughtseize/IoK, giving you more information.
The best part? They cost zero mana so they don't slow your gameplan down like Spellbomb. I would not run Bauble without Flayer though because that is where the boost is most noticed.
I'm intrigued by Reid's GBx list that he used in GP Vegas. His strategy seems on point regarding path and lingering souls in the SB to help him grind.
I was testing last night with bloodghast out of the sideboard and it was really impressive. It did a lot of work against Jund especially against opposing Lilliana's. It also had great synergy with my own collective brutalities and Lilliana's.
Has anyone tested a build with grim flayer and bloodghast? It would provide a sort of value effect by putting it in the graveyard like flayer does with lingering souls.
I've updated my list. Not gonna lie, I net-decked pretty hard and found most high placing lists use 3 Noble Hierarch. Only found 2-3 lists using Bob, and I didn't like that they run Tasigur while simultaneously running Goyf + Flayer.
I play tested against UW Control and Burn, going 2-2 overall (a best of 3 against each deck). I obviously made tons of mistakes as it's my first time playing Abzan, but overall had a lot of fun and was happy with my games given my current skill level at piloting the deck.
Question, I see that most lists either play Bob+flayer or rhino/tasigur. I don't really like flayer vs shadow decks, and I don't like rhino either, so I'm wondering if there is any way of playing Bob without flayer.
Another question, where do you usually board out thoughtseize? I feel like vs aggro decks, mirror and shadow it should go.
Thanks @B8R, I'm just worried about the company matchup because it is so unbeatable unless we have a perfect curve (Discard-> Threat -> LoTV). One resolved Coco just puts them ahead so much. I have yet to see how BG fares against it. But forgoing that matchup and getting better percentage points against the field is a greadt deal.
In my experience Flaying tendrils and collective brutality are both very strong against them. You can also side out Lilly Veil and bring in Lilly lost hope.
I'm a jund player at heart, but I've come to the white side because of the dominance of Eldrazi tron in my LGS. I never liked Grim Flayer so I'm playing something similar to Reid's list
Question, I see that most lists either play Bob+flayer or rhino/tasigur. I don't really like flayer vs shadow decks, and I don't like rhino either, so I'm wondering if there is any way of playing Bob without flayer.
Another question, where do you usually board out thoughtseize? I feel like vs aggro decks, mirror and shadow it should go.
The Reid Duke article linked a page back has an Abzan list that runs Bob-Rhino with no Flayers. Honestly, I would cut the Rhino from the list and run a one-of Tireless Tracker in that spot and treat it like a 4 drop that doesn't hurt as bad when flipped to Bob. Basically, try to only cast it when you can immediately make a land drop that turn to get value. The other thing I don't love about the deck is the one-of Murderous Cut. Again, flipping that to Bob seems too painful, and I would swap that out for another black-based removal spell.
So I am back on Traverse after failing during last weekends PPTQ. Been testing this list on Xmage since I don´t have the means to shell out for the deck on MTGO currently. I´ve been winning a lot with it because of the versatility the deck provides and it´s very easily adapted to whatever deck you face. Thrun has been a house against all the UW-decks, the Flayers are aggressive enough against big mana along with the Fulminator providing a bump in the road for them. Anywho, I find this list to be the best one I´ve played with so far and it is not that different from Edel´s lists, just some flexspots different but it seems to be in a sweetspot at the moment for me. If you have any questions let me know but I think most is self-explanatory and just wanted to share.
Only change I´ve been thinking of is to replace the Quagmire with a Treetop for faster activations.
I highly recommend Tasigur main, to the point where I think its wrong when Traverse lists dont have it. Being able to tutor up a 1 mana goyf when mana is tight is so clutch. Thats on top of providing late game value and being Push proof.
Observations: That Reid Duke Article yesterday was kind of about how good Lingering Souls is - and although his old GP Vegas deck looks cool and consistent - you want Lingering Souls in this deck!! I boarded it in every game. Agreeing with the post above - Path to Exile is necessary. Could have potentially saved me in both matches I lost.
I liked jamming this list this week, but I think I'm still more comfortable with the Traverse version. Confidant is powerful - but I'm not sure if I like gambling with my life total.
Thanks for the report. I tested the list out against my buddy last night, and while there were things I liked (I went 2-1 against TitanShift simply by virtue of going under it) There were things I didn't like. My buddy boarded in Chameleon Colossus against me out of TitanShift and it was nigh unbeatable, and I felt like I didn't have enough of the right kind of removal against his Delve creatures when testing against Grixis DS. I lost most of those matches, and our deck is supposed to be great against them (and it always has been for me!)
So, I'm looking at something that hits a little between Reid's GB deck and his Abzan list. Things I don't love about his Abzan list are Siege Rhino and Murderous cut in the main with 4 Bobs. But maybe I'm just being paranoid. I also don't love 4 ETB tapped lands.
Anyway, here's the list I'm probably bringing to a PPTQ this weekend.
Not sure if this mana base is right, but it should be OK? I'm also willing to begrudgingly put Path back in.
Oh, one last thing: My buddy brought Tireless Tracker in out of the board while playing TitanShift and it was fantastic for him. He drew 5 cards off of it one game (more than I did off Dark Confidant!)
Looks good! I think there is too much hate out for Black cards right now to leave path out of the deck. Relying on Liliana's -2 to deal with those threats is too loose.
After my turf out with the GB heavy list I wound up in a pretty similar place. I kept the Mishra's Baubles and Grim Flayers in though. Maybe this version of the deck is better off without them though. I might give this list a few more tries - but I think I'm likely going to wind up back on Traverse.
What would you cut from my particular list to make room for him? And how would you reconfig the SB since I assume the thing getting cut from main would be put in the board and space would be needed in board?
I would cut the Siege Rhino to bring in Tasigur, the Golden Fang. Tasigur is easier to cast than Rhino - you do have to pillage your graveyard to get him on the board, but you can delve carefully to keep Delirium online. If not, Tasigur's activation fills the yard up quickly and you'll soon be Traversing again.
I would cut it completely! Your Kitchen Finks from the board can pick up some of the slack in regards to life gain. If you are worried about the burn match up, a third Collective Brutality in the 75 is not uncommon.
Can anyone give me tips on playing against UW Control? I seem to be having a difficult time against that deck - is it a bad matchup? Any tips on sideboarding?
Added Note: The primer seems very out of date, any chance it could be updated?
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
I wouldn't go nuts with Spellbombs maindeck - they don't do a lot in many match ups. The cantrip is nice, but it costs 2, and you might just wind up shrinking your Goyf.
Based on what you've described, I would recommend something like the BG deck that Sol Malka ran at SCG. The ghost quarters help vs Eldrazi and Tron while Bob and Tracker can help you grind vs DS and other fair decks without leaning too heavily on your GY like the Traverse lists with Flayer.
Dark Confidant synergizes well with Noble also. Being able to cast 2 spells a turn plays right into a bob/liliana deck and lets you develop your board while staying hellbent.
Mishra's Baubles are great. They work well with Dark Confidant (choosing which to trigger first), Grim Flayer, Goyf, and Fetch lands. They also work well with Thoughtseize/IoK, giving you more information.
The best part? They cost zero mana so they don't slow your gameplan down like Spellbomb. I would not run Bauble without Flayer though because that is where the boost is most noticed.
I'm intrigued by Reid's GBx list that he used in GP Vegas. His strategy seems on point regarding path and lingering souls in the SB to help him grind.
I was testing last night with bloodghast out of the sideboard and it was really impressive. It did a lot of work against Jund especially against opposing Lilliana's. It also had great synergy with my own collective brutalities and Lilliana's.
Has anyone tested a build with grim flayer and bloodghast? It would provide a sort of value effect by putting it in the graveyard like flayer does with lingering souls.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I play tested against UW Control and Burn, going 2-2 overall (a best of 3 against each deck). I obviously made tons of mistakes as it's my first time playing Abzan, but overall had a lot of fun and was happy with my games given my current skill level at piloting the deck.
Thoughts on the deck?
3x Noble Hierarch
3x Grim Flayer
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Siege Rhino
4x Tarmogoyf
Instant/Sorcery (20)
3x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Fatal Push
3x Path to Exile
1x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Land (22)
4x Blooming Marsh
1x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
3x Marsh Flats
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Shambling Vent
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
2x Collective Brutality
2x Flaying Tendrils
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
Another question, where do you usually board out thoughtseize? I feel like vs aggro decks, mirror and shadow it should go.
L: Maverick
In my experience Flaying tendrils and collective brutality are both very strong against them. You can also side out Lilly Veil and bring in Lilly lost hope.
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Dark Confidant
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Path to Exile
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Gavony Township
2 Shambling Vent
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Damnation
1 Flaying Tendrils
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Stony Silence
Since I want to play Path to Exile, I adjusted my mana base and I'm playing a single Gideon, Ally of Zendikar instead of Siege Rhino. What do you guys think?
The Reid Duke article linked a page back has an Abzan list that runs Bob-Rhino with no Flayers. Honestly, I would cut the Rhino from the list and run a one-of Tireless Tracker in that spot and treat it like a 4 drop that doesn't hurt as bad when flipped to Bob. Basically, try to only cast it when you can immediately make a land drop that turn to get value. The other thing I don't love about the deck is the one-of Murderous Cut. Again, flipping that to Bob seems too painful, and I would swap that out for another black-based removal spell.
Here's his list:
2 Shambling Vent
2 Treetop Village
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Twilight Mire
1 Forest
2 Swamp
Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Siege Rhino
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Go for the Throat
1 Murderous Cut
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Stony Silence
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Collective Brutality
1 Lingering Souls
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Damnation
I highly recommend Tasigur main, to the point where I think its wrong when Traverse lists dont have it. Being able to tutor up a 1 mana goyf when mana is tight is so clutch. Thats on top of providing late game value and being Push proof.
Thanks for the report. I tested the list out against my buddy last night, and while there were things I liked (I went 2-1 against TitanShift simply by virtue of going under it) There were things I didn't like. My buddy boarded in Chameleon Colossus against me out of TitanShift and it was nigh unbeatable, and I felt like I didn't have enough of the right kind of removal against his Delve creatures when testing against Grixis DS. I lost most of those matches, and our deck is supposed to be great against them (and it always has been for me!)
So, I'm looking at something that hits a little between Reid's GB deck and his Abzan list. Things I don't love about his Abzan list are Siege Rhino and Murderous cut in the main with 4 Bobs. But maybe I'm just being paranoid. I also don't love 4 ETB tapped lands.
Anyway, here's the list I'm probably bringing to a PPTQ this weekend.
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Tireless Tracker
Spells:25
4 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Path to Exile
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Lingering Souls
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Concealed Courtyard
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Shambling Vent
2 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
2 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Collective Brutality
3 Stony Silence
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Lingering Souls
Not sure if this mana base is right, but it should be OK? I'm also willing to begrudgingly put Path back in.
Oh, one last thing: My buddy brought Tireless Tracker in out of the board while playing TitanShift and it was fantastic for him. He drew 5 cards off of it one game (more than I did off Dark Confidant!)
Looks good! I think there is too much hate out for Black cards right now to leave path out of the deck. Relying on Liliana's -2 to deal with those threats is too loose.
After my turf out with the GB heavy list I wound up in a pretty similar place. I kept the Mishra's Baubles and Grim Flayers in though. Maybe this version of the deck is better off without them though. I might give this list a few more tries - but I think I'm likely going to wind up back on Traverse.
I am way into Tireless Tracker right now.
I would cut the Siege Rhino to bring in Tasigur, the Golden Fang. Tasigur is easier to cast than Rhino - you do have to pillage your graveyard to get him on the board, but you can delve carefully to keep Delirium online. If not, Tasigur's activation fills the yard up quickly and you'll soon be Traversing again.
Added Note: The primer seems very out of date, any chance it could be updated?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/712358#paper
no bob/flayer
wat
no hierarch to play rhino early
wat.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
Abzan Charm is reasonable though. Has a lot of potential applications.