Sword of Light and Shadow
It's spicy, and I'm sure 'whoever' can make an argument against it; because there will always be an argument for or against everything.
(As a side note I'm noticing a lot of this forum has become contentious opinions and pointless speculation lately, not liking it.)
If you want to fall in love with Swords again put one of these bad boys in your sideboard and bring it in against anything grindy.
I added it because I wanted a card that allowed my bad body creatures to be massive threats every time (as long as sword survives), I knew I was on to something when an opponent used a path to exile on my noble when I equipped it. Since then I've been play testing it and it has been great.
Also, if you are on Grim Flayer you can stack the triggers: hit opp with a sword equipped flayer (or just flayer and a sword equipped anything -although if this is the board state, you probably already won.), stack flayer trigger, dump a creature in the yard, then resolve SoLaS trigger, get the creature back.
Well guys, I've been playing Jund the past two days at GP San Jose and it's been killing me. I'm new-ish to the deck still, but I keep running into matchups that I just can't seem to win. Granted, I've had awful top decks all weekend, but still.
So I'm switching to Junk for (at least) the first event this morning since I picked up a playset of Marsh Flats for $80 at a vendor. Here's my list.
Well guys, I've been playing Jund the past two days at GP San Jose and it's been killing me. I'm new-ish to the deck still, but I keep running into matchups that I just can't seem to win. Granted, I've had awful top decks all weekend, but still.
So I'm switching to Junk for (at least) the first event this morning since I picked up a playset of Marsh Flats for $80 at a vendor. Here's my list.
Should I have the playset of Blooming Marsh? What about Shambling Vents? Is Ghost Quarter that necessary?
I think Ghost Quarter is good right now, but not necessarily needed in any kind. It helps in Big Mana deck MUs. I think 3 Blooming Marshes is fine, if you don't run Nobles. Shambling Vents are good, I personally run 3, some people prefer to run some Stirring Wildwood over Shambling, but its prefernce and playstyle that matters.
So for anyone playing in an aggro meta, here is my updated list I'll try at next FNM, for reference, my meta mainly consists of Gbx, Infect, Affinity, Goblin/Elves swarm aggro, some Control Variants and rarely some Valakut/Tron. So here is the list:
4 Pushes make alot of sense for Infect/Affinity/GBx/Swarm aggro. EE is also great generally and helps with Grim Flayer to get delirum. Fulminator + Surgical is not what I like, but I don't find anything better which both helps with Valakut and Tron, so I'll keep those. Damnation 2 times is a must, CB is also great and wouldn't play less than 2 in my 75. Rest is for grindy games.
The turnout wasn't huge, but I still won't complain. It was 4 rounds, you had to win 3 out of 4 to get in for the top 4.
Round 1: UB Faeries
Game 1:Drew nothing but gas. Dropped Goyfs, 2x Lingering Souls, Voice of Resurgence, Rhino. She scooped.
Game 2: She had 4 spellstrite stutters or whatever they're called, and countered me multiple times. She ran me over
Game 3: Both our decks took a ***** on us. She dropped Bitterblossom so she had the advantage as she got flooded and I got landlocked. She drew a fulminator and destroyed my only white source. I didn't see a single fetch or white source after. I had two Goyfs that were 7/8s but she drew EE. We were at a stall for a while, but I never saw a white source and died with 2x Rhinos, 1x Voice and 1x Path in my hand when she was close to lethal.
Round 2: Thing in the Ice deck
Game 1: Goyfs, 2x lingering souls, Gavony, Tasigur. He got beat up hard
Game 2: He had AV pretty early on, I had Goyf and souls. Discarded something, put pressure on, I had a Decay in my hand for the thing in the Ice he dropped, it was 2 away from going off. I discarded, he only had a creature, I took the chance, dropped Goyf. He drew a spell, I just Decay'd Thing in the Ice and he died. Easy wins.
Round 3: AD Naseum
Game 1: Ran over by Goyfs and 2 or 3 discard
Game 2: He leylined me with 2 discard and a CB in hand. I had a very durdley hand thanks to that so I began to thoughtseize and IOK myself to cheat Tasigur out. He dropped Unlife and Prisms, but just durdled, I dropped Tasigur and scooze, AB'd a prism, Tasigurd a AB back in hand. I had Gavony to speed things up, his Grace couldn't save him because he had 10 poison counters. Ran him over.
Round 4:
Game 1: Got paired up against Eldrazi. Had the answer to his Matter, which ripped him a Tron land. He drew a ThoughtKnot and took my LOTV, I drew a LOTV and killed it. I pressured him with Goyf, and two Siege Rhino's back to back, he died quick.
Game 2: Slow hand on my part. Thoughtseized his Smasher. He drew Thoughtknow quickly and took my Fulminator, he wasn't worried about my Elspeth, Sun's Champion since I had like 3 mana. Drew a Blessed Alliance, he lost his Thoughtknow. We durdle, he drops a Matter. He Drops a Smasher but I specifically saved a crappy card to Path just in case he drew it. Dropped Elspeth, made tokens, dropped Goyf, chumped Matter so that he didn't get card draw. He died to a lot of Tokens and Elspeths Ult.
I'm the only fair deck to get into the top 4, the other 3 were Two RG Trons and 1 Titanshift.
Top 4:
Game 1: 2x Voice of Resurgence, lingering souls and Tasigur and a timely Pulse to his map left me with serious pressure. He had to cast Kozilek's return, which just netted me huge ass Voice tokens. He lost
Game 2: He's on the play, draws perfect Karn into Ugin
Game 3: I mull, but I get the best possible hand you could think of. 1x Discard, 1x Goyf, 1x Voice, 1x Stony Silence, land and scryed to the top to see the exact land I needed. Discard, see he has nothing but eggs, take his Scrying. I play Stony, he drops a bunch of eggs and map, I drop Goyf, he rips the exact Tron land he needed and killed me with Karn and Wurmcoil. Kinda too bad, I had the nuts hand and he topdecked into a lucky win
Overall, I was very impressed with Junk and this list. This deck is head and shoulders better than Jund, I truly believe. The other Jund player went like 1-3, he isn't a bad player.
I absolutely steamrolled everyone I faced outside of Faieries, and the only reason why I didn't crush it was because I was landlocked from a white source. Even Tron was looking like a steamroll, he topdecked what he needed before fast pressure was arriving.
Overall, really happy, Voice ranged from ok to good. Tasigur was relevant in cheating out. Rhinos are still fantastic despite Push. Elspeth is the absolute truth. Stony Silence was great
I don't think Flayer made a difference to me at all, I had giant ass creatures wrecking with cheap spells and LOTV. I think until something really major comes back that Flayer is now a bad card in Junk
I don't like Shambling Vents all that much. It sucks especially comparing to Raging Ravine and although I still have it in the list I find it possible that even Treetop Village would be better. Man lands are something that really bothers me in Junk-they are just bad.
True, but we just need the colours, Treetop would be better, but doesn't help with Push.
So after playing Jund the first two days of Modern side events at GP San Jose, I switched to Junk for day 3. Literally never played the deck, even in Forge. I got the Marsh Flats the day before, so I figured I'd buy the remaining Blooming Marshes I needed and see how Junk went. I started 2-0, beating Abzan CoCo and Eldrazi Tron. I lost to Elves, and drew with my round 4 opponent to go 2-1-1, much better than I did with Jund the previous two days even though I've played that deck previously. In the second event, round one went to time vs UW Thopter Gifts. I would have won, but them's the beats I guess. Won round 2 against Jeskai Nahiri, lost round 3 to Bant Eldrazi, and won round 4 against a green devotion deck.
Overall, I'm happy with both decks and I think I prefer the way Jund plays, However, Junk certainly played better in that meta. I'm curious how I would have done against the endless combo I faced the previous days while on Jund if I were on Junk instead.
Thats actually pretty funny, because I was on Abzan with 4 confidantes for the first two days of side events (I was the guy playing BG/x with the gray scarf for 24 rounds of magic this weekend), and ended up moving to Jund for Sunday after the relentless amount of CoCo decks I faced. I'll get a full write up later tonight for all the rounds, just need to organize my notes.
Yeah from one day of experience its probably not sufficient enough to make valid statements for either Jund or Junk. Things are up in the air right now. Dust has to settle in order to determine that.
What are the general opinions on the Bant Eldrazi matchup? I'm currently on Jund, debating switching to Junk, but I'm nervous about not having access to Blood Moon. Does Lingering Souls make a big deal here? Are there other sideboard cards that Jund doesn't have access to that are a big deal?
I'm wondering how did you manage to beat Abzan CoCo with Junk because it's really bad matchup by my experieces while I'm always happy to play against this deck when on Jund. I'm more onto Junk since Fatal Push but Abzan CoCo that seems to be coming back worries me.
Game 1 he got the infinite combo down. Games 2 and 3 I landed an early Scooze or two and was able to keep his board relatively clean with removal and Lili. No trample means I had blockers for days with spirit tokens, and Grim Flayer was absurdly good for me. Got the final damage through with a Siege Rhino ETB both games, too.
So I got destroyed at the Richmond classic this weekend. I've never 0-3 dropped in my 4 year history with magic the gathering. I lost to jund ...JUND. I don't think it's my decks fault I think I just had bad luck. I flooded out really hard. Then round 2 vs Tron I steal game 1, he gets game 2, then game 3 I had to mull to 2 to find a land. Awesome. Match 3 vs infect I win one he wins one. Game 3 I have 8 lingering souls tokens in play...8..he has only pump spells in hand. He top decks blighted agent and I drew land. Yup. Drop.
Anyway got my salt out of the way. Anyone have any idea why jund is doing better than junk right now? Is it because of how aggro heavy the meta has gotten?
Also I plan on trying out the noble version. The ramp seems relevant. I'm willing to give it a try. Any who is still on hierarch send me what you've been running since fatal push.
Now that we have Fatal Push, is white as necessary? Could we see a rise in straight BG rock with Push replacing Path? Or do you think Lingering souls is too valuable?
Now that we have Fatal Push, is white as necessary? Could we see a rise in straight BG rock with Push replacing Path? Or do you think Lingering souls is too valuable?
It's my understanding that Siege Rhino is still beloved by some and certain W side-board cards, i.e. Stony Silence, are also highly valued.
That said, B has had removal all this time and BG has been played, if not with the frequency of Junk or Jund. BG lists have been posted in this forum in the last few days. I've been on Obliterock for many months.
I'm wondering how did you manage to beat Abzan CoCo with Junk because it's really bad matchup by my experieces while I'm always happy to play against this deck when on Jund. I'm more onto Junk since Fatal Push but Abzan CoCo that seems to be coming back worries me.
It's definitely harder than if you were on Jund due to the worse removal suite against the CoCo decks, but it really depends on your build of Abzan. Grim flayers with delirium are usually a great clock against them that lets you dig into the more sparse removal in Abzan. In fact the variant of Abzan that struggles the most against CoCo decks in my opinion are the ones that cut back on oozes and play more Tasigurs/Siege Rhinos that clunk up their draws. Overall BG/x should have a slight edge in the matchup with discard, a big note is that I have had to leave in my some LotV's in this matchup, whereas when I was on Jund I could've easily taken her out for Angers. It helps that they board out some dorks so her edict isn't as useless, but she's still pretty bad in the matchup, but Abzan will take what removal it has in this matchup.
What are the general opinions on the Bant Eldrazi matchup? I'm currently on Jund, debating switching to Junk, but I'm nervous about not having access to Blood Moon. Does Lingering Souls make a big deal here? Are there other sideboard cards that Jund doesn't have access to that are a big deal?
Despite no access to Blood Moon, I think Junk has a better matchup overall vs Jund as lingering souls can just steal games if you save path to exile for their reality smashers. However this also depends on your variant of Abzan (lately there's been a lot of dissension within the group about Nobles/flayers/tasigurs/# of pushes, etc.). I've had much better luck on Noble Abzan vs Bant Eldrazi than the 23/24 land variants that play Tasigurs and Siege Rhinos. Rhinos are actively bad vs them since they get outclassed by Drowners and Smashers, whereas the faster clock of Noble Abzan and exalted triggers to power up a goyf or Flayer to get through has made a huge difference. Also Nobles powering out a T2 Liliana of the Veil or Fulminator Mage has been backbreaking to disrupt their land drops, which is how I got both of my wins vs bant eldrazi at GP Dallas. You cannot match their creatures or their inevitability with Eldrazi Displacer, which is why Jund without Blood Moon loses topdeck wars vs them, and so the only option is to go under them with faster clock and disruption, which Noble Abzan has delivered.
So I got destroyed at the Richmond classic this weekend. I've never 0-3 dropped in my 4 year history with magic the gathering. I lost to jund ...JUND. I don't think it's my decks fault I think I just had bad luck. I flooded out really hard. Then round 2 vs Tron I steal game 1, he gets game 2, then game 3 I had to mull to 2 to find a land. Awesome. Match 3 vs infect I win one he wins one. Game 3 I have 8 lingering souls tokens in play...8..he has only pump spells in hand. He top decks blighted agent and I drew land. Yup. Drop.
Anyway got my salt out of the way. Anyone have any idea why jund is doing better than junk right now? Is it because of how aggro heavy the meta has gotten?
Also I plan on trying out the noble version. The ramp seems relevant. I'm willing to give it a try. Any who is still on hierarch send me what you've been running since fatal push.
Strong post content to name correlation.
The Noble list is better if you have a lot of linear combo and big mana decks in your meta. If there's a lot of Jund, Abzan, or Grixis I would recommend you try a grindier list or a list with Dark Confidantes. Specifically it's impossible to say whether or not Abzan or Jund is better than each other globally and whoever says so probably doesn't know what their talking about. If your meta requires a deck thats heavier on removal, and needs to be more controlling with its sideboard, than go with Jund. If the meta needs you to play more to the board then play Abzan, from what you described it just seems like there is more linear aggro/combo lists in your meta, so Noble Abzan is actually what I would play there. It's faster than most bg/x lists in terms of its clock despite the lack of bolts, but you are a dog to anyone else with a bg/x list suited for the mirror (ie mainboard coursers/siege rhinos/tasigurs). It also just seems like you had unfortunate variance at the classic - if you are still most comfortable with Jund at your next comp/pro REL event, then stick with that.
I'm typically a very aggressive aggro player, but I have always been drawn to green black control for some reason. It's probably due to the synergy between the creatures and support cards. Plus, black and green have gotten some new great cards so I figured it was time to join the ranks of Golgari Control.
Below is my take on the deck. Please take a look and let me know where I can make improvements.
CREATURE: 24
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Boneyard Wurm
OR
4x Grim Flayer
4x Gnarlwood Dryad
4x Narnam Renegade
4x Experiment One
4x Mana Dork
SUPPORT: 16
4x Lillian of the Veil
4x Collected Brutality
4x IoK
4x Fatal Push
RESOURCES: 20
- Other
- Fast
- Fetch
- Overgrown Tomb
- Swamp
- Forest
You can answer all of your questions by doing some forum reading, or even just reading the front page primer..
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It's spicy, and I'm sure 'whoever' can make an argument against it; because there will always be an argument for or against everything.
(As a side note I'm noticing a lot of this forum has become contentious opinions and pointless speculation lately, not liking it.)
If you want to fall in love with Swords again put one of these bad boys in your sideboard and bring it in against anything grindy.
I added it because I wanted a card that allowed my bad body creatures to be massive threats every time (as long as sword survives), I knew I was on to something when an opponent used a path to exile on my noble when I equipped it. Since then I've been play testing it and it has been great.
Also, if you are on Grim Flayer you can stack the triggers: hit opp with a sword equipped flayer (or just flayer and a sword equipped anything -although if this is the board state, you probably already won.), stack flayer trigger, dump a creature in the yard, then resolve SoLaS trigger, get the creature back.
So I'm switching to Junk for (at least) the first event this morning since I picked up a playset of Marsh Flats for $80 at a vendor. Here's my list.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/29-01-17-junk/
Should I have the playset of Blooming Marsh? What about Shambling Vents? Is Ghost Quarter that necessary?
I think Ghost Quarter is good right now, but not necessarily needed in any kind. It helps in Big Mana deck MUs. I think 3 Blooming Marshes is fine, if you don't run Nobles. Shambling Vents are good, I personally run 3, some people prefer to run some Stirring Wildwood over Shambling, but its prefernce and playstyle that matters.
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
3 Blooming Marsh
3 Shambling Vent
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Gavony Township
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Grim Flayer
2 Tasigur, the golden Fang
4 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Lingering Souls
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Damnation
2 Collective Brutality
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Stony Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Pushes make alot of sense for Infect/Affinity/GBx/Swarm aggro. EE is also great generally and helps with Grim Flayer to get delirum. Fulminator + Surgical is not what I like, but I don't find anything better which both helps with Valakut and Tron, so I'll keep those. Damnation 2 times is a must, CB is also great and wouldn't play less than 2 in my 75. Rest is for grindy games.
Sideboard plan vs those MUs will be as follows:
GBx
-3 TS
-3 IOK
+2 Finks
+2 Damnation
+1 Gideon
+1 Thrun
Infect
-1 Ooze
-1 Maelstrom Pulse
+2 CB
Affinity
-3 TS
-3 LoTV
+2 Stony Silence
+2 Damnation
+2 Collective Brutality
Swarm aggro
-3 LoTV
-3 TS
+2 Kitchen Finks
+2 Damnation
+2 CB
Control
-2 Decay
-2 Fatal Push
-1 EE
-1 Pulse
+2 Kitchen Finks
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Gideon
+1 Thrun
Tron
-4 Fatal Push
-1 EE
-1 LtLH
-1 Ooze
+3 Fulminator
+2 Surgical
+2 Stony Silence
Valakut
-1 EE
-1 LtLH
-3 Fatal Push
+3 Fulminator
+2 Surgical
My deck
4x Blooming Marsh
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Marsh Flats
3x Windswept Heath
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Godless Shrine
1x Temple Garden
2x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Forest
3x Shambling Vent
1x Gavony Township
Creatures (13)
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Voice of Resurgence
3x Siege Rhino
2x Tasigur, The Golden Fang
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
3x Path to Exile
3x Fatal Push
1x Collective Brutality
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Lingering Souls
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Collective Brutality
1x Blessed Alliance
3x Fulminator Mage
3x Stony Silence
1x Damnation
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
The turnout wasn't huge, but I still won't complain. It was 4 rounds, you had to win 3 out of 4 to get in for the top 4.
Round 1: UB Faeries
Game 1:Drew nothing but gas. Dropped Goyfs, 2x Lingering Souls, Voice of Resurgence, Rhino. She scooped.
Game 2: She had 4 spellstrite stutters or whatever they're called, and countered me multiple times. She ran me over
Game 3: Both our decks took a ***** on us. She dropped Bitterblossom so she had the advantage as she got flooded and I got landlocked. She drew a fulminator and destroyed my only white source. I didn't see a single fetch or white source after. I had two Goyfs that were 7/8s but she drew EE. We were at a stall for a while, but I never saw a white source and died with 2x Rhinos, 1x Voice and 1x Path in my hand when she was close to lethal.
Round 2: Thing in the Ice deck
Game 1: Goyfs, 2x lingering souls, Gavony, Tasigur. He got beat up hard
Game 2: He had AV pretty early on, I had Goyf and souls. Discarded something, put pressure on, I had a Decay in my hand for the thing in the Ice he dropped, it was 2 away from going off. I discarded, he only had a creature, I took the chance, dropped Goyf. He drew a spell, I just Decay'd Thing in the Ice and he died. Easy wins.
Round 3: AD Naseum
Game 1: Ran over by Goyfs and 2 or 3 discard
Game 2: He leylined me with 2 discard and a CB in hand. I had a very durdley hand thanks to that so I began to thoughtseize and IOK myself to cheat Tasigur out. He dropped Unlife and Prisms, but just durdled, I dropped Tasigur and scooze, AB'd a prism, Tasigurd a AB back in hand. I had Gavony to speed things up, his Grace couldn't save him because he had 10 poison counters. Ran him over.
Round 4:
Game 1: Got paired up against Eldrazi. Had the answer to his Matter, which ripped him a Tron land. He drew a ThoughtKnot and took my LOTV, I drew a LOTV and killed it. I pressured him with Goyf, and two Siege Rhino's back to back, he died quick.
Game 2: Slow hand on my part. Thoughtseized his Smasher. He drew Thoughtknow quickly and took my Fulminator, he wasn't worried about my Elspeth, Sun's Champion since I had like 3 mana. Drew a Blessed Alliance, he lost his Thoughtknow. We durdle, he drops a Matter. He Drops a Smasher but I specifically saved a crappy card to Path just in case he drew it. Dropped Elspeth, made tokens, dropped Goyf, chumped Matter so that he didn't get card draw. He died to a lot of Tokens and Elspeths Ult.
I'm the only fair deck to get into the top 4, the other 3 were Two RG Trons and 1 Titanshift.
Top 4:
Game 1: 2x Voice of Resurgence, lingering souls and Tasigur and a timely Pulse to his map left me with serious pressure. He had to cast Kozilek's return, which just netted me huge ass Voice tokens. He lost
Game 2: He's on the play, draws perfect Karn into Ugin
Game 3: I mull, but I get the best possible hand you could think of. 1x Discard, 1x Goyf, 1x Voice, 1x Stony Silence, land and scryed to the top to see the exact land I needed. Discard, see he has nothing but eggs, take his Scrying. I play Stony, he drops a bunch of eggs and map, I drop Goyf, he rips the exact Tron land he needed and killed me with Karn and Wurmcoil. Kinda too bad, I had the nuts hand and he topdecked into a lucky win
Overall, I was very impressed with Junk and this list. This deck is head and shoulders better than Jund, I truly believe. The other Jund player went like 1-3, he isn't a bad player.
I absolutely steamrolled everyone I faced outside of Faieries, and the only reason why I didn't crush it was because I was landlocked from a white source. Even Tron was looking like a steamroll, he topdecked what he needed before fast pressure was arriving.
Overall, really happy, Voice ranged from ok to good. Tasigur was relevant in cheating out. Rhinos are still fantastic despite Push. Elspeth is the absolute truth. Stony Silence was great
I don't think Flayer made a difference to me at all, I had giant ass creatures wrecking with cheap spells and LOTV. I think until something really major comes back that Flayer is now a bad card in Junk
True, but we just need the colours, Treetop would be better, but doesn't help with Push.
Junk's threats are so top heavy that I'm not particularly upset by them
Treetop would definitely be amazing if we didn't need the mana fixing
Overall, I'm happy with both decks and I think I prefer the way Jund plays, However, Junk certainly played better in that meta. I'm curious how I would have done against the endless combo I faced the previous days while on Jund if I were on Junk instead.
Game 1 he got the infinite combo down. Games 2 and 3 I landed an early Scooze or two and was able to keep his board relatively clean with removal and Lili. No trample means I had blockers for days with spirit tokens, and Grim Flayer was absurdly good for me. Got the final damage through with a Siege Rhino ETB both games, too.
Anyway got my salt out of the way. Anyone have any idea why jund is doing better than junk right now? Is it because of how aggro heavy the meta has gotten?
Also I plan on trying out the noble version. The ramp seems relevant. I'm willing to give it a try. Any who is still on hierarch send me what you've been running since fatal push.
Draft My Cube!
It's my understanding that Siege Rhino is still beloved by some and certain W side-board cards, i.e. Stony Silence, are also highly valued.
That said, B has had removal all this time and BG has been played, if not with the frequency of Junk or Jund. BG lists have been posted in this forum in the last few days. I've been on Obliterock for many months.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
It's definitely harder than if you were on Jund due to the worse removal suite against the CoCo decks, but it really depends on your build of Abzan. Grim flayers with delirium are usually a great clock against them that lets you dig into the more sparse removal in Abzan. In fact the variant of Abzan that struggles the most against CoCo decks in my opinion are the ones that cut back on oozes and play more Tasigurs/Siege Rhinos that clunk up their draws. Overall BG/x should have a slight edge in the matchup with discard, a big note is that I have had to leave in my some LotV's in this matchup, whereas when I was on Jund I could've easily taken her out for Angers. It helps that they board out some dorks so her edict isn't as useless, but she's still pretty bad in the matchup, but Abzan will take what removal it has in this matchup.
Despite no access to Blood Moon, I think Junk has a better matchup overall vs Jund as lingering souls can just steal games if you save path to exile for their reality smashers. However this also depends on your variant of Abzan (lately there's been a lot of dissension within the group about Nobles/flayers/tasigurs/# of pushes, etc.). I've had much better luck on Noble Abzan vs Bant Eldrazi than the 23/24 land variants that play Tasigurs and Siege Rhinos. Rhinos are actively bad vs them since they get outclassed by Drowners and Smashers, whereas the faster clock of Noble Abzan and exalted triggers to power up a goyf or Flayer to get through has made a huge difference. Also Nobles powering out a T2 Liliana of the Veil or Fulminator Mage has been backbreaking to disrupt their land drops, which is how I got both of my wins vs bant eldrazi at GP Dallas. You cannot match their creatures or their inevitability with Eldrazi Displacer, which is why Jund without Blood Moon loses topdeck wars vs them, and so the only option is to go under them with faster clock and disruption, which Noble Abzan has delivered.
Strong post content to name correlation.
The Noble list is better if you have a lot of linear combo and big mana decks in your meta. If there's a lot of Jund, Abzan, or Grixis I would recommend you try a grindier list or a list with Dark Confidantes. Specifically it's impossible to say whether or not Abzan or Jund is better than each other globally and whoever says so probably doesn't know what their talking about. If your meta requires a deck thats heavier on removal, and needs to be more controlling with its sideboard, than go with Jund. If the meta needs you to play more to the board then play Abzan, from what you described it just seems like there is more linear aggro/combo lists in your meta, so Noble Abzan is actually what I would play there. It's faster than most bg/x lists in terms of its clock despite the lack of bolts, but you are a dog to anyone else with a bg/x list suited for the mirror (ie mainboard coursers/siege rhinos/tasigurs). It also just seems like you had unfortunate variance at the classic - if you are still most comfortable with Jund at your next comp/pro REL event, then stick with that.
I'm typically a very aggressive aggro player, but I have always been drawn to green black control for some reason. It's probably due to the synergy between the creatures and support cards. Plus, black and green have gotten some new great cards so I figured it was time to join the ranks of Golgari Control.
Below is my take on the deck. Please take a look and let me know where I can make improvements.
CREATURE: 24
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Boneyard Wurm
OR
4x Grim Flayer
4x Gnarlwood Dryad
4x Narnam Renegade
4x Experiment One
4x Mana Dork
SUPPORT: 16
4x Lillian of the Veil
4x Collected Brutality
4x IoK
4x Fatal Push
RESOURCES: 20
- Other
- Fast
- Fetch
- Overgrown Tomb
- Swamp
- Forest
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
This forum post needs a moderator so badly...