MTG Salvation

Quote from Ayiluss »

I don't thnik Abzan is bad deck but after playing a lot with both decks I think Jund is better deck overall. They both have their advantages and disadvantages though. I agree with Abzan being better against most midrange decks and control due to Lingering Souls which is great card against grindy decks (possibly the best one). It also has some great sb cards (Stony Silence) but overall Jund has more good sb options and Path to Exile which is good late game removal but 99% of the time Terminate is just as good so this isn't real advantages except for few matches (Tron for Wurmcoils, Grishoalbrand-it's better to exile their creatures than killing them,...). I don't agree with mana base not being less painful for Jund (Blackcleace Cliffs is huge bonus) and this is even more obvious against faster decks. It may have better late game than Jund but early game is the problem (I struggled a lot against faster deck with Abzan and felt quite a bit of times that I need a miracle to survive early turns but if I did I was usually in a good spot). Synergy of Lily with Lingering souls is great but I don't think she's better in Abzan than Jund because of that. Of course all that comes to personal preference as well but I had much more success with Jund than with Abzan but like I said Abzan isn't bad deck and there are metagames where it's better than Jund but most of the time I think Jund is better and if I was about to play in unknown metagame I think Jund would be safer bet by having more options and I think it's more flexible deck.

I still somewhat disagree. Jund is the better deck right now, yes. But I still think comparing them and coming up with Jund being "better overall" is simply a matter of timing and subjective analysis. When Junk is better, it's better. That time is just not right now. If the format slows down about half a turn, Junk is the better deck, hands down. Just because it's a little slower doesn't mean it can't run as smooth as the Jund lists. It just needs tuning. The list I was running at GP Boston 2014 had 25 lands, 4 Dark Confidant, and a varied suite of removal spells with a lower overall curve. I'm going to look to that list for inspiration going forward. Point is, that deck was tuned better than anything I've ever played. It just required work and months of testing/grinding to get it to that perfect point.

That said, Jund is looking more and more tempting. I will be testing it as well as soon as I get my hands on a pair of Kalitas.

--------

As for White having the "Best" sideboard cards, I wouldn't say that's a misnomer. Yes, Ancient Grudge is good and sometimes better than Stony Silence. Yes, green has good lifegain options now (finally). In the comparison between Jund/Junk, I don't think you're gaining that much in the board, and of course Lingering Souls is the big gain. But in certain scenarios, we still have an edge with SB options.

Thrun. I didn't mean to dis The Last Troll. He's still an absolute house in the mirror, especially against the Jund varieties. I just think he's a little less necessary in this deck at the moment. If we are losing to a big control deck, Thrun is not likely to get the job done as well as other options. Decks are going BIG right now, with lategames that involve Thopter/Sword, Ancestral Vision, Ulamog, and Worldbreakers. Thrun doesn't exactly go over the top of those decks. Once again, I think it's Sigarda or Sorin right now, not Thrun. We already have blockers for days.

In Jund, Thrun makes a lot more sense.

After writing all this, I'm really inspired to scratch the list I was working with (essentially Craig Krempels' build) and start all over with a renewed outlook on the deck. I'm going to focus on the following core and see what happens:

24-25 lands (possibly 2 Ghost Quarter. I'm coming around on it, especially with a full set of Paths)


4 Bob
4 Goyf
3 Scooze
2-3 Rhino/Tasigur

6-7 Discard
4 Path
1 Disfigure
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Pulse

4 Liliana
3 Lingering Souls

For reference, my GP Boston 2014 list, which went 6-3:

As the meta is constantly changing, we can be flexible to change to Jund and Abzan back and forth.

Quote from Ayiluss »

As you wish. From my experiences Jund is better deck overall and thus I stayed with it after I switched to it from Abzan but I'm fine if you feel different. That said they are both good decks with the same core just with different other cards making them good in different metagames.

So why are you posting here? Not trying to be prickish, just curious.

Quote from Ayiluss »

Because I still have Junk online and all the pieces in paper (I play it occasionally), still like the deck and can potentially switch if metagame changes.

I can stop posting here if you have anything against it though.

No no, I'm not trying to be a bully. I just think if you are continuing to post here you should keep it positive in support of this version. Even If Jund is objectively better right now, Abzan has its obvious strengths, namely in the mirror. Let's just try and keep the focus on that, rather than which deck is better or why white sideboard cards aren't actually a significant gain over red (I still think they are).

Speaking of, celestial purge is looking decent right now as a 1-of board card.

Purge is one of my favorite SB cards and it definitely has a slot in mine during this current meta.

Sideboard plan
vs Burn
Out: 4x Dark Confidant, 3x Thoughtseize
In: 1x Disfigure, 1x Duress, 1x Engineered Explosives, 3x Kitchen Finks, 1x Damnation

vs Infect
Out: 2x Maelstrom Pulse, 3x Scavenging Ooze
In: 1x Disfigure, 1x Duress, 1x Engineered Explosives, 2x Fulminator Mage

vs Affinity
Out: 4x Liliana of the Veil, 3x Scavenging Ooze
In: 1x Disfigure, 1x Engineered Explosives, 2x Fulminator Mage, 1x Pithing Needle, 2x Stony Silence

vs Jund
Out: 4x Inquisition of Kozilek, 3x Thoughtseize
In: 1x Damnation, 3x Kitchen Finks, 2x Fulminator Mage, 1x Painful Truths

vs Abzan Company
Out: 4x Inquisition of Kozilek, 4x Liliana of the Veil
In: 1x Damnation, 1x Disfigure, 1x Engineered Explosives, 2x Fulminator Mage, 2x Grafdigger's Cage, 1x Painful Truths

vs Tron
Out: 4x Abrupt Decay, 3x Scavenging Ooze
In: 1x Duress, 2x Fulminator Mage, 1x Painful Truths, 1x Pithing Needle, 2x Stony Silence

vs Jeskai Harbinger
Out: 4x Abrupt Decay, 1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Path to Exile
In: 1x Duress, 2x Kitchen Finks, 2x Fulminator Mage, 1x Painful Truths, 1x Pithing Needle

I've cut Siege Rhino from my 75 and replaced him with Dark Confidant, I feel that Siege Rhino is too slow for the current meta. After testing this build, the deck feels Jund-esque. The 2 Ghost Quarters and 2 Maelstrom Pulses in the mainboard is a concession to Tron and Jeskai Harbinger being pretty popular right now. Thoughts?

So, how many people run slaughter pact? I currently run 2 maelstrom pulse, 3 abrupt decay, and 4 path to exile. I know that 4 paths are a lot so i am thinking about cutting 1 for a pact. What do you guys think?

Quote from KoDiamonds »

So, how many people run slaughter pact? I currently run 2 maelstrom pulse, 3 abrupt decay, and 4 path to exile. I know that 4 paths are a lot so i am thinking about cutting 1 for a pact. What do you guys think?

the 4th path to exile is bad in my opinion. it's not good early game because we can accidentally ramp the opponent. 3 path to exile is good. slaughter pact is the best. but if you're not use to using it yet, you'll lose more games forgeting to pay for it. make sure to put a reminder, (dice) so you can't forget it.

Quote from docp3584 »

guitar90x's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Land (24) 1x Forest 2x Ghost Quarter 1x Godless Shrine 1x Hissing Quagmire 4x Marsh Flats 2x Overgrown Tomb 1x Plains 1x Shambling Vent 1x Stirring Wildwood 2x Swamp 1x Temple Garden 1x Twilight Mire 4x Verdant Catacombs 2x Windswept Heath	Sorcery (13) 4x Inquisition of Kozilek 4x Lingering Souls 2x Maelstrom Pulse 3x Thoughtseize Creature (11) 4x Dark Confidant 3x Scavenging Ooze 4x Tarmogoyf Instant (8) 4x Abrupt Decay 4x Path to Exile Planeswalker (4) 4x Liliana of the Veil	Sideboard (15) 1x Damnation 1x Disfigure 1x Duress 1x Engineered Explosives 2x Fulminator Mage 2x Grafdigger's Cage 3x Kitchen Finks 1x Painful Truths 1x Pithing Needle 2x Stony Silence

Sideboard plan
vs Burn
Out: 4x Dark Confidant, 3x Thoughtseize
In: 1x Disfigure, 1x Duress, 1x Engineered Explosives, 3x Kitchen Finks, 1x Damnation

vs Infect
Out: 2x Maelstrom Pulse, 3x Scavenging Ooze
In: 1x Disfigure, 1x Duress, 1x Engineered Explosives, 2x Fulminator Mage

vs Affinity
Out: 4x Liliana of the Veil, 3x Scavenging Ooze
In: 1x Disfigure, 1x Engineered Explosives, 2x Fulminator Mage, 1x Pithing Needle, 2x Stony Silence

vs Jund
Out: 4x Inquisition of Kozilek, 3x Thoughtseize
In: 1x Damnation, 3x Kitchen Finks, 2x Fulminator Mage, 1x Painful Truths

vs Abzan Company
Out: 4x Inquisition of Kozilek, 4x Liliana of the Veil
In: 1x Damnation, 1x Disfigure, 1x Engineered Explosives, 2x Fulminator Mage, 2x Grafdigger's Cage, 1x Painful Truths

vs Tron
Out: 4x Abrupt Decay, 3x Scavenging Ooze
In: 1x Duress, 2x Fulminator Mage, 1x Painful Truths, 1x Pithing Needle, 2x Stony Silence

vs Jeskai Harbinger
Out: 4x Abrupt Decay, 1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Path to Exile
In: 1x Duress, 2x Kitchen Finks, 2x Fulminator Mage, 1x Painful Truths, 1x Pithing Needle

I've cut Siege Rhino from my 75 and replaced him with Dark Confidant, I feel that Siege Rhino is too slow for the current meta. After testing this build, the deck feels Jund-esque. The 2 Ghost Quarters and 2 Maelstrom Pulses in the mainboard is a concession to Tron and Jeskai Harbinger being pretty popular right now. Thoughts?

I would take out duress or disfigure for a celestial purge. it's good against burn, blood moon and the new nahiri.

I was wondering in our primer we don't have a list of MB cards that are weak in certain match ups. I will greatly help us Sideboard and change Main Board to our LGS match ups. I'm not an expert in it but if we can get a list that would be great. for example:

Tron:
Abrupt Decay

Affinity:
Thoughtseize

• Batterskull
  
• Damnation
  
• Engineered Explosives
  
• 3 Fulminator Mage
  
• 2 Grafdigger's Cage
  
• Languish
  
• 2 Painful Truths
  
• 2 Stony Silence
  
• Thragtusk
  
• Zealous Persecution

This is a deck I found on mtgtop8 that recently won an MTGO tourney.
My question is this: Why the one of languish vs 2 true sweepers. Why Damnation over Wrath with nearly identical access to white and black (13w 15b). And why Thragtusk.
Trying to figure out the thought process for abzan.
Thanks guys

I'll take a swing at that SB:

Languish doesn't hit our fatties but can still sweep aggro builds just fine. Essentially looking for an asymmetrical wrath effect for 4.

Thragtusk has worked wonders for me against Burn and Zoo clogging up the ground and the ETB puts us ahead by a fair amount.

Batterskull was excellent in the grind. With K. Comm. and Affinity "seemingly" unrepresented enough to board the usual amount of hate, 'Skull looked like a better option.

My suggestions.

So in your opinion is it a pretty solid sideboard or is there something missing? I've heard a lot of people using purge recently
Is there any chance Kalitas has a place in the sideboard? Possibly in that thragstusk slot? Also good against burn and zoo, comes down a turn earlier, upside against chord and others?

I'd definitely add Purge.

Purge for 'Skull or Languish.

Other than that, these are sound SB choices.

So no Abzan midrange in the top32 of either GPLA and GPCharlotte...

BBD had the big kid version with 2 Archangel Avacyn in it which was cool, but I dont think it counts :/

Guess it was a bad showing for our deck this weekend guys.

where did you find the top 32?

Quote from anorgaasmicdeath »

So in your opinion is it a pretty solid sideboard or is there something missing? I've heard a lot of people using purge recently
Is there any chance Kalitas has a place in the sideboard? Possibly in that thragstusk slot? Also good against burn and zoo, comes down a turn earlier, upside against chord and others?

I don't think Kal would be a good addition to the SB because a good share of our removal is targeted exile effects.

I could be wrong and he does great in Abzan but I believe this is the reason why a majority of the time he has only appeared in Jund and essentially found a home there.

This is true.

Kal is excellent against heavy creature builds.

Albeit, he needs enough removal to facilitate his trigger.

Some spells Abzan can incorporate are S. Pact and Dismember.

Quote from Maadask »

Melira
Liliana of the veil
Discard

Uhh, drawing multiples of Thoughtseize to beat CoCo/Chord is the way to victory in this match up.