I've been working toward putting a list together that I'm calling Bitter Abzan. I have only gotten a match in thus far, but I'm looking for thoughts on the more token-oriented strategy as well as what Abzan really looks to sideboard. I want to find a slot for Anguished Unmaking somewhere in the 75, but I'm not sure yet.
Cool brew! It's a bit different from what the rest of us are doing here, but I do like the idea. I might consider a few changes though. Nissa doesn't seem that amazing, and The Eternal Witnesses and Ajani Mentor seem a little out of place. I think if you really want to do a full tokens theme, you should commit more fully to generating tokens and support them with cards like Intangible virtue or Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. But either way, it looks fun.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
My logic for the Eternal Witness is that it allows me to garner card advantage by grabbing spells back. Ajani Mentor has actually been quite decent in testing, so I think he'll stay in the shell.
I've now played 13 matches, but I'm a bit inexperienced with GBx, and I think that has affected my results, as I'm 6-8 in matches with a 15-18 game record. I think that the 17-19 shows that the deck has potential, but it needs those last few pieces of tinkering to get it up to stuff.
My full record looks like this (deck/match record/match win %/game record/game win %)
My logic for the Eternal Witness is that it allows me to garner card advantage by grabbing spells back. Ajani Mentor has actually been quite decent in testing, so I think he'll stay in the shell.
I've now played 13 matches, but I'm a bit inexperienced with GBx, and I think that has affected my results, as I'm 5-8 in matches with a 15-18 game record. I think that the 15-18 shows that the deck has potential, but it needs those last few pieces of tinkering to get it up to stuff.
My full record looks like this (deck/match record/match win %/game record/game win %)
I really need some help with the sideboard, and I'll consider somethings for the E Witness slot.
Yeah I think E-witness is good, but it strikes me as clunky with what you're trying to do. It's also clunky in regular Abzan, which is why we don't play it. If you had a few more spells that generate tokens, like say Spectral Procession or whatever, Witness might make some more sense, but I still think it's unnecessary.
Also I hate to point out the obvious, but where's the Tarmogoyfs? I realize it's a brew, but you still have enough of the classic BG/x shell to make me wonder why no Goyfs. He still presents the best early threat, which would allow you time to set up your late game engines. Also, sometimes they just win by themselves.
If you are cutting Goyf, I'm not sure you should also still be playing the Rhinos and Scoozes either necessarily. Rhino seems a little out of place, as you should be able to get more value from your planeswalkers in a true tokens shell. Sorin, Lord of Innistrad strikes me as a good 1-2 of as a way to produce emblems and still gain life, and I'm sure there are other tokens-related cards in the 4-drop slot that could jive better.
Anyway, sorry to ramble. It's a cool deck, but definitely different from the regular BGx shell. I think you still have one foot in classic Abzan, but one foot in the tokens camp, and I just wonder if you can find a more synergistic shell that's more fully devoted to tokens.
This list just placed at a random SCG event, and it's actually pretty interesting looking:
I was just last night thinking about Oath of Nissa and how powerful it could be in a Goyf deck. This build is basically exactly what I had in mind. I'm still not in love with Abzan Charm, but I'll have to test it. Aside from that, this list still has everything I want in an Abzan deck. I'm curious to see if Oath of Nissa ends up being good enough in general, as whiffing would be horrendous, but having 5/6 Goyfs sure is swell.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I think it was mentioned here before, has anyone tried big Ajani mentor in side. played him some yesterday and give souls plus 1 for win was pretty cool, choose zoo in tournie but after playing with Junk, feel i should of played it instead.
Hey all,
I'm currently putting together a 'modern box' with various BWx Archetypes, but hopefully focussing on Abzan. To this end, I have a few questions for you guys:
1) How necessary are Goyf and Bob? I would prefer to build without them if possible, but if they are essential I might bite the bullet and get some. I might get Bobs anyway for the other decks in the box but would still like to know how essential he is.
2) What utility lands are most favoured? I was going to run some mixture of Ghost Quarter and Shambling Vent, is this reasonable?
3) What does a typical Abzan curve look like?
4) should I be running mana dorks?
5) How many, and which, Planeswalkers does Abzan run?
+1 Dismember
+1-2 Nihil Spellbomb or Grafdigger's Cage
or
1 Spellbomb, 1 Dismember and 1 Surgical Extraction?
Also considering to cut Curse of Death's Hold for a Zealous Persecution.
I would be real careful about cutting artifact hate. 3 Stony is a lot, but that number serves to make sure you can find one when it counts, early and often. Both Affinity and Lanterns fold to it, and you probably still bring in 1-3 against Thopters, depending on what you think they'll do postboard. Creeping Corrosion is a little less necessary, but I'd still keep it as a hail mary against all those decks, specifically Affinity.
People might think we have a "good" matchup against AFfinity because Souls, but we don't. We are still a dog anytime we draw a clunky hand or they have a fast start. Choose wisely.
I'm not sure why people are so obsessed with Graveyard hate right now. Are there really that many decks you are playing against that need the Sideboard space? Griselbrand and Living End are rarely played in my meta and on the national average, and aside from that I can't think of why you'd want GY hate at all. There are plenty of other decks where it's technically useful, but I think it's too low impact far too often to justify sideboard space. If anything, a single Surgical seems good against the combo decks while still hedging slightly against certain GY strategies, but I really wouldn't cut Artifact hate for GY hate unless your expected meta is upside down. You will see Affinity on average once or twice per tournament, if not more. You will see a single crazy combo/GY deck maybe once or less per tournament. I'd keep the Corrosion and Silences if I were you.
If you want space for other Sideboard cards (GY hate or anything else) in that list, I'd look at Feed the Clan, Painful Truths, and Disfigure as flex slots. Maybe EE too.
Cutting Curse for Persecution is fine. I'm still going to test Curse for now but it is slow. Persecution is the obvious replacement.
As for Ajani, Mentor of Heroes, he's great and all, but I think we have better ways to spend 5 mana in this deck on a threat (Sigarda). Ajani is just very slow and requires you to have another creature in play to use his first +1 properly. Finding threats is great, but I'd rather just have him BE the threat. Also, you can easily whiff on his second +1, which isn't ideal. I think he's a bit better in a deck that actually floods the board with dudes, rather than our 20/20/20 configuration.
@nawhillih, also here is another example, which we've been discussing.
Those are basically the stock lists, with a few variations. But if you invest in that core, you will have a Tier 1 deck. The variations in manlands isn't critical, I'd probably not run more than 1 Ghost Quarter right now, and yes you only really need 4 Liliana and a couple Sorin as planeswalkers( but you could always build your list to accommodate more of them).
Goyf is necessary to be Tier 1, but you can build Abzan without him too.
You really make me doubt now, haha. I thought the changes were going to be good!
If I keep it simple, I guess a 1-1 Disfigure/Dismember split would add diversity. I'm not sure if feed the clan can be that hail mary card vs burn, or what else it could be.
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Yea disfigure is good vs affinity. Dismember covers other bases. Not sure you want both in the board though.
Feed the clan is a good mix card. It's not solo: you have 2 finks as well. It's just more impactful against specifically burn, while finks works elsewhere.
Affinity is always a problem. Beating them takes work. Other matchups can be won on skill and tight play, but we fold to burn and affinity decks without a good sideboard plan and some lucky draws.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Yeah I have Slaughter Pact main, just to get people. Disfigure in the board. But it's hard to justify paying 4 life these days for Dismember, especially before maxing out on Decays and Paths. I'm staying away from that one for now.
Sleeved up the board for this weekend/next week, whenever I get to play next. Decided to make some changes from my theorycrafting ideas. Here's what I tuned up:
3 Cards for burn because that deck is an issue. EE and Disfigure also fill in there. 4 actual hate cards, plus another ~4 splash cards for Affinity because screw losing to Affinity. 3 Sweepers of various flavors. 1 Extra removal for fast decks. 1 Extra seize for actual combo. 1 Miser Surgical for said combo, as well as any actual "GY" decks. I'm not playing more GY hate until it's proven necessary, but Surgical seems the most impactful as a solo card. Fulminator because lands still kill us (Colonnade, Urza, Scapeshift). And that's basically a wrap. Once I find out what meta I'm expecting, I'll tune as necessary. It's definitely lacking some grindfest cards, and is geared toward faster metas, but I think it's a well rounded board. I stole most of it from Krempels anyway.
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I'm not gonna be nice about the Primer, sorry whoever created it.
It sucks. It's ridiculously diverse, spreading across a large number of strategies. Smallpox/Treefolk may be in these colors, but it's not the deck that this is in T2 on mtgsalvation for. Neither are a lot of those options. You bring up a lot of less common choices, and even mention a few as being great or normal when they almost never show up, like Dark Confidant. I would expect a Primer to be based on the best/most common card choices. I came here to read about the normal Abzan Midrange lists that are popular, not fringe decks like Smallpox or Treefolk. A lot of information on it is out of date, such as still have Amulet Bloom and Twin matchups on the primer, and you called Abzan Company revived Pod. Although there was information that I wanted to read, there was so much fluff in the primer that most of it wasn't really relevant.
Essentially, focus the primer on one deck, let the other decks get their own primers if they haven't already, try to keep it slightly more up to date (yes, I realize it takes time), and declutter the primer (which would happen if you updated it).
Sorry about how blunt and rude that was. As always, it's a bad idea to write at 2 AM.
Good cards, Lingering Souls, yada yada yada, Bitterblossom.
Bitterblossom is a test card. Initially it was Hangarback Walker, but Bitterblossom is likely better in most scenarios. Hangarback Walker can get bigger which can be very relevant, but is harder to convert to tokens and is vulnerable to Path to Exile. Hangarback Walker was in over Kitchen Finks, which is better against aggressive decks. I built the deck with Jund in mind, which definitely affected this card choice, as well as having the fourth Lingering Souls.
I recognized that most of Modern doesn't have ways to deal with repetitive flyers. These are essentially lingering souls 5-6 except they cost less mana and more life.
Realistically, this should be 2 Kitchen Finks, but until I do some more testing I'm gonna play with Bitterblossom. Finks may come in over something else instead.
I have 2 Gavony Township mainboard which also interacts well with Bitterblossom. I prefer Township over Vault of the Archangel since Vault tends to be a lot more defensive, and if you can activate that card and you're still on defense, you have a problem. It also breaks stalemates better than vault, and vault doesn't save your creatures.
Card's sweet. Great attacker, great defender. I was playing against a Jund player with at least two of these (probably 3, maybe 4) and it was amazing. It was a removal spell that could also beat down. With the playing I've done with it, I really like it. This is also partially skewed by how much I was thinking about Jund while building this deck. Realistically, it should be more Shambling Vents/Stirring Wildwood. This is not mentioned in a very broad primer which was surprising.
It creates a lot of advantage. It makes your creatures bigger, kills something of theirs, can stop Bolts and other burn spells (that mode is frequently forgotten and really good), occasionally does stuff against the odd Enchantment. The spell is generally REactive against any deck with Lightning Bolt, like Jund, Burn, or Jeskai control. It interacts well with Kitchen Finks and the now removed Hangarback Walker. I am surprised that I didn't see it in the very broad primer. If it was there, it's more proof that you need to listen to the top part of this post.
Very popular choice right now as a 1-2 of. It's card draw in the mirror, essentially mimicing/replacing Bob. It's good, Patrick Chapin played it in legacy and it's great in standard. I didn't see it in the primer which is really astounding.
I agree the primer could be better, but definitely tone down the criticism just a bit. Have you ever written a primer? It's harder than you think. Also just because he has a diverse primer, doesn't mean he's going to remember every relevant card. The reason cards like Painful Truths and Hissing Quagmire are missing though is that the OP hasn't been updated since March.
That said, I do agree that the primer should focus on the Tier 1-2 BGx core variations, and leave the Smallpox and Treefolk version to the other threads. Micah, if you want to rewrite the primer, feel free to offer. Maybe Mastodon is ready to hand it over.
Anyway, I'm not sold on Bitterblossom, especially as a 2-of. I don't like Kitchen Finks main either, unless Burn is half your meta. Blossom doesn't immediately impact the board, and is really slow unless you get it on turn 2. Having a couple Townships to synergize with it isn't really enough support in my opinion, as the card really wants you to be pumping tokens or countering spells with Faeries to truly get full value. Souls is good because it works with Lili, punches through counters, and helps smooth our mana curve while providing immediate pressure or relief. Blossom is much less reliable for all of the above.
Dromoka's Command is definitely a card, though I don't think I'd maindeck it right now. Again, in a Burn infested meta, maybe. Outside of that, I think it's a little clunky and is better off in the board.
Painful Truths is a known quantity. So is Quagmire. I do agree they should be added to the primer, along with all the other recent innovations (Oath of Nissa comes to mind). But let's try and get that to happen in a more constructive and less critical way. 2AM posts need not be borderline flaming.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Bitterblossom can run away with the game during a grind but with Abzan's manabase it's essentially too suicidal and if the game stretches for too long it'll dig it's player into a sizeable hole.
I can see Finks MB if 'Blossom is something one is interested in testing.
I agree D. Comm. radiates value and is such a great card since it's relevant in a number of MU's. That said, I've only ever seen it in the side -- as it should be -- unless one understands the meta one will be attending in some tourney.
I agree the primer could be better, but definitely tone down the criticism just a bit. Have you ever written a primer? It's harder than you think. Also just because he has a diverse primer, doesn't mean he's going to remember every relevant card. The reason cards like Painful Truths and Hissing Quagmire are missing though is that the OP hasn't been updated since March.
That said, I do agree that the primer should focus on the Tier 1-2 BGx core variations, and leave the Smallpox and Treefolk version to the other threads. Micah, if you want to rewrite the primer, feel free to offer. Maybe Mastodon is ready to hand it over.
Anyway, I'm not sold on Bitterblossom, especially as a 2-of. I don't like Kitchen Finks main either, unless Burn is half your meta. Blossom doesn't immediately impact the board, and is really slow unless you get it on turn 2. Having a couple Townships to synergize with it isn't really enough support in my opinion, as the card really wants you to be pumping tokens or countering spells with Faeries to truly get full value. Souls is good because it works with Lili, punches through counters, and helps smooth our mana curve while providing immediate pressure or relief. Blossom is much less reliable for all of the above.
Dromoka's Command is definitely a card, though I don't think I'd maindeck it right now. Again, in a Burn infested meta, maybe. Outside of that, I think it's a little clunky and is better off in the board.
Painful Truths is a known quantity. So is Quagmire. I do agree they should be added to the primer, along with all the other recent innovations (Oath of Nissa comes to mind). But let's try and get that to happen in a more constructive and less critical way. 2AM posts need not be borderline flaming.
Yeah, I've written primers, although not for MTG. It's awful and it took me a while to figure out how to keep them up to date.
On Bitterblossom, as I said, I was testing it. Flyers are a beating in a lot of matches. Lifeloss is a beating in others. Townships sorta synergize with the whole deck. It makes your creatures bigger and line up better vs other BGx decks, which the deck is mostly set up to handle. Bitterblossom is slow, I admit. If you are using all your mana each turn though, only investing 2 mana is really useful.
Mainboard Finks is fairly popular atm. It's a good beater with extra applications and resiliency.
Courser of Kruphix may be better than Finks with Bitterblossom. Just a random thought.
D. Command has been nice. I don't know if it should be more removal/discard, but the card tends to act as a removal spell with upside.
EDIT: Also, is Auriok Champion a passable Sideboard card? The mana may be too rough, which feels stupid to say in Modern, but it could be true.
So I played a handful of games. Bitterblossom is super underwhelming on paper and while playing it.
It also quietly won me several games, I never lost a game where I landed it, it's a better lategame draw than I thought, and it's pretty handy.
There were also times where I wished there was more removal in the deck.
It also fogged creatures repeatedly which was sweet.
I didn't play a game where I drew it and didn't like it. I was sad facing down opposing Siege Rhinos with it, but I tended to have enough other creatures for me to not care.
I'm also undefeated with my list still. Don't have a ton of games in yet, but I beat the B/g/x Mirror 3-0, and various takes on Jeskai Control 2-0 each time. I also played against a smattering of homebrews.
To reiterate, it's super underwhelming to play, but wins you games. If we had Terminate, I'd play that instead.
Can leyline of sanctity help against valakut/gift decks? I know cryptic command is a thing, but still seems good. Also, graveyard hate still seems like a good idea with collected company combo decks and thopter sword decks running around.
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Cool brew! It's a bit different from what the rest of us are doing here, but I do like the idea. I might consider a few changes though. Nissa doesn't seem that amazing, and The Eternal Witnesses and Ajani Mentor seem a little out of place. I think if you really want to do a full tokens theme, you should commit more fully to generating tokens and support them with cards like Intangible virtue or Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. But either way, it looks fun.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
My logic for the Eternal Witness is that it allows me to garner card advantage by grabbing spells back. Ajani Mentor has actually been quite decent in testing, so I think he'll stay in the shell.
I've now played 13 matches, but I'm a bit inexperienced with GBx, and I think that has affected my results, as I'm 6-8 in matches with a 15-18 game record. I think that the 17-19 shows that the deck has potential, but it needs those last few pieces of tinkering to get it up to stuff.
My full record looks like this (deck/match record/match win %/game record/game win %)
Grixis Control (1-0) 100 (2-1) 66.7
Lantern Control (1-0) 100 (2-0) 100
Jeskai Control (1-0) 100 (2-0) 100
Abzan Company (0-2) 0 (0-4) 0
Scapeshift (0-1) 0 (0-2) 0
Affinity (1-0) 100 (2-1) 66.7
UR Storm (0-1) 0 (1-2) 33.3
Bant Tempo (0-1) 0 (1-2) 33.3
BUG Mid (0-1) 0 (1-2) 33.3
UB Tezzerator (0-2) 0 (2-4) 33.3
Merfolk (1-0) 100 (2-1) 66.7
Jank-Midrange (1-0) 100 (2-0) 100
The Jank midrange was a Jund Blue shell. He had pretty bad top decks, and I had fairly aggressive hands.
My matches against Affinity, UWR Control, and Affinity along with a deck tech can be found here for reference: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqIBNYk7e0Nw77AjJp01sylQtlXwSaEsx
I really need some help with the sideboard, and I'll consider somethings for the E Witness slot.
Legacy: ANT, Death and Taxes
EDH: Jori En, Ruin Diver Fast Combo
Pauper: Affinity
Yeah I think E-witness is good, but it strikes me as clunky with what you're trying to do. It's also clunky in regular Abzan, which is why we don't play it. If you had a few more spells that generate tokens, like say Spectral Procession or whatever, Witness might make some more sense, but I still think it's unnecessary.
Also I hate to point out the obvious, but where's the Tarmogoyfs? I realize it's a brew, but you still have enough of the classic BG/x shell to make me wonder why no Goyfs. He still presents the best early threat, which would allow you time to set up your late game engines. Also, sometimes they just win by themselves.
If you are cutting Goyf, I'm not sure you should also still be playing the Rhinos and Scoozes either necessarily. Rhino seems a little out of place, as you should be able to get more value from your planeswalkers in a true tokens shell. Sorin, Lord of Innistrad strikes me as a good 1-2 of as a way to produce emblems and still gain life, and I'm sure there are other tokens-related cards in the 4-drop slot that could jive better.
Anyway, sorry to ramble. It's a cool deck, but definitely different from the regular BGx shell. I think you still have one foot in classic Abzan, but one foot in the tokens camp, and I just wonder if you can find a more synergistic shell that's more fully devoted to tokens.
This list just placed at a random SCG event, and it's actually pretty interesting looking:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=102657
I was just last night thinking about Oath of Nissa and how powerful it could be in a Goyf deck. This build is basically exactly what I had in mind. I'm still not in love with Abzan Charm, but I'll have to test it. Aside from that, this list still has everything I want in an Abzan deck. I'm curious to see if Oath of Nissa ends up being good enough in general, as whiffing would be horrendous, but having 5/6 Goyfs sure is swell.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Here is the stock list I'm using: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=101053
I thought that maybe it's too heavy on artifact hate?
I was thinking about doing
-1 Stony Silence
-1 Creeping Corrosion
-1 Disfigure
+1 Dismember
+1-2 Nihil Spellbomb or Grafdigger's Cage
or
1 Spellbomb, 1 Dismember and 1 Surgical Extraction?
Also considering to cut Curse of Death's Hold for a Zealous Persecution.
GBR Jund Midrange
GWU Bant Eldrazi
UG UG Infect
IMO, It's always good to diversify GY hate.
Also, our Souls and Grafdigger's Cage is a nombo.
Zealous Persecution is an underplayed yet excellent card. Pushes damage, puts goyf battles in our favor and makes Souls more than just chumps.
BGW ABZAN WGB
BGR JUND RGB
I'm currently putting together a 'modern box' with various BWx Archetypes, but hopefully focussing on Abzan. To this end, I have a few questions for you guys:
1) How necessary are Goyf and Bob? I would prefer to build without them if possible, but if they are essential I might bite the bullet and get some. I might get Bobs anyway for the other decks in the box but would still like to know how essential he is.
2) What utility lands are most favoured? I was going to run some mixture of Ghost Quarter and Shambling Vent, is this reasonable?
3) What does a typical Abzan curve look like?
4) should I be running mana dorks?
5) How many, and which, Planeswalkers does Abzan run?
Thanks in advance
I would be real careful about cutting artifact hate. 3 Stony is a lot, but that number serves to make sure you can find one when it counts, early and often. Both Affinity and Lanterns fold to it, and you probably still bring in 1-3 against Thopters, depending on what you think they'll do postboard. Creeping Corrosion is a little less necessary, but I'd still keep it as a hail mary against all those decks, specifically Affinity.
People might think we have a "good" matchup against AFfinity because Souls, but we don't. We are still a dog anytime we draw a clunky hand or they have a fast start. Choose wisely.
I'm not sure why people are so obsessed with Graveyard hate right now. Are there really that many decks you are playing against that need the Sideboard space? Griselbrand and Living End are rarely played in my meta and on the national average, and aside from that I can't think of why you'd want GY hate at all. There are plenty of other decks where it's technically useful, but I think it's too low impact far too often to justify sideboard space. If anything, a single Surgical seems good against the combo decks while still hedging slightly against certain GY strategies, but I really wouldn't cut Artifact hate for GY hate unless your expected meta is upside down. You will see Affinity on average once or twice per tournament, if not more. You will see a single crazy combo/GY deck maybe once or less per tournament. I'd keep the Corrosion and Silences if I were you.
If you want space for other Sideboard cards (GY hate or anything else) in that list, I'd look at Feed the Clan, Painful Truths, and Disfigure as flex slots. Maybe EE too.
Cutting Curse for Persecution is fine. I'm still going to test Curse for now but it is slow. Persecution is the obvious replacement.
As for Ajani, Mentor of Heroes, he's great and all, but I think we have better ways to spend 5 mana in this deck on a threat (Sigarda). Ajani is just very slow and requires you to have another creature in play to use his first +1 properly. Finding threats is great, but I'd rather just have him BE the threat. Also, you can easily whiff on his second +1, which isn't ideal. I think he's a bit better in a deck that actually floods the board with dudes, rather than our 20/20/20 configuration.
@nawhillih, also here is another example, which we've been discussing.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=101053
Those are basically the stock lists, with a few variations. But if you invest in that core, you will have a Tier 1 deck. The variations in manlands isn't critical, I'd probably not run more than 1 Ghost Quarter right now, and yes you only really need 4 Liliana and a couple Sorin as planeswalkers( but you could always build your list to accommodate more of them).
Goyf is necessary to be Tier 1, but you can build Abzan without him too.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
There are some cheaper alternatives I purchased before I was financially stable for a playset:
Goyf replacement, Vinelasher Kudzu.
BGW ABZAN WGB
BGR JUND RGB
If I keep it simple, I guess a 1-1 Disfigure/Dismember split would add diversity. I'm not sure if feed the clan can be that hail mary card vs burn, or what else it could be.
GBR Jund Midrange
GWU Bant Eldrazi
UG UG Infect
Feed the clan is a good mix card. It's not solo: you have 2 finks as well. It's just more impactful against specifically burn, while finks works elsewhere.
Affinity is always a problem. Beating them takes work. Other matchups can be won on skill and tight play, but we fold to burn and affinity decks without a good sideboard plan and some lucky draws.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
GBR Jund Midrange
GWU Bant Eldrazi
UG UG Infect
Sleeved up the board for this weekend/next week, whenever I get to play next. Decided to make some changes from my theorycrafting ideas. Here's what I tuned up:
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Feed the Clan
3 Stony Silence
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Disfigure
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Thoughtseize
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Cards for burn because that deck is an issue. EE and Disfigure also fill in there. 4 actual hate cards, plus another ~4 splash cards for Affinity because screw losing to Affinity. 3 Sweepers of various flavors. 1 Extra removal for fast decks. 1 Extra seize for actual combo. 1 Miser Surgical for said combo, as well as any actual "GY" decks. I'm not playing more GY hate until it's proven necessary, but Surgical seems the most impactful as a solo card. Fulminator because lands still kill us (Colonnade, Urza, Scapeshift). And that's basically a wrap. Once I find out what meta I'm expecting, I'll tune as necessary. It's definitely lacking some grindfest cards, and is geared toward faster metas, but I think it's a well rounded board. I stole most of it from Krempels anyway.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
It sucks. It's ridiculously diverse, spreading across a large number of strategies. Smallpox/Treefolk may be in these colors, but it's not the deck that this is in T2 on mtgsalvation for. Neither are a lot of those options. You bring up a lot of less common choices, and even mention a few as being great or normal when they almost never show up, like Dark Confidant. I would expect a Primer to be based on the best/most common card choices. I came here to read about the normal Abzan Midrange lists that are popular, not fringe decks like Smallpox or Treefolk. A lot of information on it is out of date, such as still have Amulet Bloom and Twin matchups on the primer, and you called Abzan Company revived Pod. Although there was information that I wanted to read, there was so much fluff in the primer that most of it wasn't really relevant.
Essentially, focus the primer on one deck, let the other decks get their own primers if they haven't already, try to keep it slightly more up to date (yes, I realize it takes time), and declutter the primer (which would happen if you updated it).
Sorry about how blunt and rude that was. As always, it's a bad idea to write at 2 AM.
Onto actual deck talks, my list is here: http://deckbox.org/sets/1409910
Good cards, Lingering Souls, yada yada yada, Bitterblossom.
Bitterblossom is a test card. Initially it was Hangarback Walker, but Bitterblossom is likely better in most scenarios. Hangarback Walker can get bigger which can be very relevant, but is harder to convert to tokens and is vulnerable to Path to Exile. Hangarback Walker was in over Kitchen Finks, which is better against aggressive decks. I built the deck with Jund in mind, which definitely affected this card choice, as well as having the fourth Lingering Souls.
I recognized that most of Modern doesn't have ways to deal with repetitive flyers. These are essentially lingering souls 5-6 except they cost less mana and more life.
Realistically, this should be 2 Kitchen Finks, but until I do some more testing I'm gonna play with Bitterblossom. Finks may come in over something else instead.
Gavony Township
I have 2 Gavony Township mainboard which also interacts well with Bitterblossom. I prefer Township over Vault of the Archangel since Vault tends to be a lot more defensive, and if you can activate that card and you're still on defense, you have a problem. It also breaks stalemates better than vault, and vault doesn't save your creatures.
Hissing Quagmire
Card's sweet. Great attacker, great defender. I was playing against a Jund player with at least two of these (probably 3, maybe 4) and it was amazing. It was a removal spell that could also beat down. With the playing I've done with it, I really like it. This is also partially skewed by how much I was thinking about Jund while building this deck. Realistically, it should be more Shambling Vents/Stirring Wildwood. This is not mentioned in a very broad primer which was surprising.
Dromoka's Command
It creates a lot of advantage. It makes your creatures bigger, kills something of theirs, can stop Bolts and other burn spells (that mode is frequently forgotten and really good), occasionally does stuff against the odd Enchantment. The spell is generally REactive against any deck with Lightning Bolt, like Jund, Burn, or Jeskai control. It interacts well with Kitchen Finks and the now removed Hangarback Walker. I am surprised that I didn't see it in the very broad primer. If it was there, it's more proof that you need to listen to the top part of this post.
Painful Truths
Very popular choice right now as a 1-2 of. It's card draw in the mirror, essentially mimicing/replacing Bob. It's good, Patrick Chapin played it in legacy and it's great in standard. I didn't see it in the primer which is really astounding.
That said, I do agree that the primer should focus on the Tier 1-2 BGx core variations, and leave the Smallpox and Treefolk version to the other threads. Micah, if you want to rewrite the primer, feel free to offer. Maybe Mastodon is ready to hand it over.
Anyway, I'm not sold on Bitterblossom, especially as a 2-of. I don't like Kitchen Finks main either, unless Burn is half your meta. Blossom doesn't immediately impact the board, and is really slow unless you get it on turn 2. Having a couple Townships to synergize with it isn't really enough support in my opinion, as the card really wants you to be pumping tokens or countering spells with Faeries to truly get full value. Souls is good because it works with Lili, punches through counters, and helps smooth our mana curve while providing immediate pressure or relief. Blossom is much less reliable for all of the above.
Dromoka's Command is definitely a card, though I don't think I'd maindeck it right now. Again, in a Burn infested meta, maybe. Outside of that, I think it's a little clunky and is better off in the board.
Painful Truths is a known quantity. So is Quagmire. I do agree they should be added to the primer, along with all the other recent innovations (Oath of Nissa comes to mind). But let's try and get that to happen in a more constructive and less critical way. 2AM posts need not be borderline flaming.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I can see Finks MB if 'Blossom is something one is interested in testing.
I agree D. Comm. radiates value and is such a great card since it's relevant in a number of MU's. That said, I've only ever seen it in the side -- as it should be -- unless one understands the meta one will be attending in some tourney.
BGW ABZAN WGB
BGR JUND RGB
Yeah, I've written primers, although not for MTG. It's awful and it took me a while to figure out how to keep them up to date.
On Bitterblossom, as I said, I was testing it. Flyers are a beating in a lot of matches. Lifeloss is a beating in others. Townships sorta synergize with the whole deck. It makes your creatures bigger and line up better vs other BGx decks, which the deck is mostly set up to handle. Bitterblossom is slow, I admit. If you are using all your mana each turn though, only investing 2 mana is really useful.
Mainboard Finks is fairly popular atm. It's a good beater with extra applications and resiliency.
Courser of Kruphix may be better than Finks with Bitterblossom. Just a random thought.
D. Command has been nice. I don't know if it should be more removal/discard, but the card tends to act as a removal spell with upside.
EDIT: Also, is Auriok Champion a passable Sideboard card? The mana may be too rough, which feels stupid to say in Modern, but it could be true.
Rather, it's her ability and stats that make her underwhelming in our build.
BGW ABZAN WGB
BGR JUND RGB
It also quietly won me several games, I never lost a game where I landed it, it's a better lategame draw than I thought, and it's pretty handy.
There were also times where I wished there was more removal in the deck.
It also fogged creatures repeatedly which was sweet.
I didn't play a game where I drew it and didn't like it. I was sad facing down opposing Siege Rhinos with it, but I tended to have enough other creatures for me to not care.
I'm also undefeated with my list still.
To reiterate, it's super underwhelming to play, but wins you games. If we had Terminate, I'd play that instead.