Not really relevant, but I want to play my bobs again . Wonder how long it'll take for them to be viable again.
Well you can play Jund with it's lower curve. According to ktkenshinx it will probably join the Tier 1 section today.
Should you be one of those persons who cares about such labels
This is the last list I ran. I think the changes that I would make to the list after playing last time would be:
-1 Liliana in the main for +1 Siege Rhino
-1 Duress in the main for +1 Thoughtseize
-1 Drown in Sorrow in the board for +1 Damnation
-2 Kitchen Finks in the board for +1 Dromaka's Command and +1 Liliana
@Stephen. I switch Birds for Heirarchs in a heartbeat. You're really not utilizing equipment with them so that devalues the flying and the only real reason for BB on T2 is Liliana. I think it's just a strict upgrade. The third path I'd switch for likely Murderous Cut. The fourth Thoughtseize I'd cut for the second Ooze.
I'm a bit concerned with your mana base too. The double utility lands are surprisingly taxing as you only have 15 green sources, 15 black sources and 14 white sources (not counting birds). I think I'd prefer a third manland over the second utility land. I think I'd like to find a room to add another black source because you're surprisingly black heavy. Not sure the best way to do it though. Maybe just 2 heirarchs 1 bird -1 forest for the third GW manland and -1 utility land for +1 fetchland.
There's nothing truly "at major fault" that I see other than the triple Path because the ramp Path gives is often quite relevant.
I've had a bunch of good experience with Curse of Death's Hold. It's really strong for the mirror as it shuts down opposing Souls and just generally turns everything into your favor. It's also the best way to stabilize against both Affinity and Infect because pretty much all of their creatures die and you can just chump/remove any specific threats once you reach that point. I also tend to bring it in against Twin because they're win conditions tend to drop to being: Burn you out, Keranos or Batterskull. Keranos is the best of those, but Batterskull becomes far less relevant because you can race it better and it kills far less than what it normally would. Plus, their key threats (Snap/Vendilion/Pestermite) all become spells instead of spells with bodies. It's also obviously good for the other various creature decks (Little Kid Luck, BW tokens, etc.). Otherwise though I let it be. I think of it as Wrath #1 or 2 (dependent) generally. Otherwise it's too slow/ineffective against most burn lists (save maybe Goblins), Zoo, Tron, UWR, etc. I do however bring it in for the Pyromancer/Mentor type decks as it's effectively a 1-sided wrath and goes exceptionally well with Disfigure.
That said, Maadask I'm surprised that one of the Path's isn't Pact of Negation if for no other reason than the x3 Confidant. I'd probably cut 1 Zealous in your board too because it pretty much overlaps with a bunch of other things you already have.
@Stephen. I switch Birds for Heirarchs in a heartbeat. You're really not utilizing equipment with them so that devalues the flying and the only real reason for BB on T2 is Liliana. I think it's just a strict upgrade. The third path I'd switch for likely Murderous Cut. The fourth Thoughtseize I'd cut for the second Ooze.
I'm a bit concerned with your mana base too. The double utility lands are surprisingly taxing as you only have 15 green sources, 15 black sources and 14 white sources (not counting birds). I think I'd prefer a third manland over the second utility land. I think I'd like to find a room to add another black source because you're surprisingly black heavy. Not sure the best way to do it though. Maybe just 2 heirarchs 1 bird -1 forest for the third GW manland and -1 utility land for +1 fetchland.
There's nothing truly "at major fault" that I see other than the triple Path because the ramp Path gives is often quite relevant.
Thanks for the feedback, I don't have hierarchs yet so that's why I use Birds, but I do have 3 boxes of MM2 on pre-order maybe ill get good luck and open some lol. But I think I will try removing 1 path and the land switch up, but not sure if I would do cut seeing how I run tasigurs as well, maybe ill try out a slaughter pact not sure. But again thank you I have been running the deck for basically the two or so months lol and still learning. For what people call a goodstuff deck it has a lot of lines of play and things to use so I think that makes it challenging.
I've been playing G/B Rock and Junk for quite some time and I'd like to interject a couple things into the conversation.
It might be blasphemous, but I think Liliana is really bad right now. There are very few matches where I want her in, so she has been relegated to the board (or left out all together). Boggles she is an all-star. She's not bad in infect, but again that relies on them not having inkmoth early and/or you not having path). I'm as big a Liliana fan as anyone (I play legacy pox, after all), but she just seems "meh" whenever I cast her.
I've been experimenting with Monastery Mentor and it seems pretty strong. Most of our issues seem to come when we can't 1-for-1 our opponents. I've found that this helps keep up on board when I'm busy abrupt decaying or pathing creatures. It also gives me a decent fighting chance against burn (although I feel that match is much more reliant on siege rhino). If nothing else, it forces the burn to hit the creature instead of my face.
I played about 10 games yesterday against the Junk Collected Company (new pod) deck and the constant 2-for1's ran me out of the game. That is a hard matchup, to the point that I almost feel like cage has to go back in the board. I've also been experimenting w/ Teeg in the board against Tron (I currently don't have fulminator Mages). They at least keep Karn and Ugin at bay, then my big worries are wurmcoil, which I can hold path for. It turns out if you make collected company play fair, they just lose.
That said, Maadask I'm surprised that one of the Path's isn't Pact of Negation if for no other reason than the x3 Confidant. I'd probably cut 1 Zealous in your board too because it pretty much overlaps with a bunch of other things you already have.
As I said, i'm not a big fan of Pact of negation at the moment. It allows to stabilize the game but at the expense of losing one turn, so it is not as useful in the most situations. Why do you think zealous overlaps? It is thought against affinity, boogles, tokens, podless pod and specially infect
That said, Maadask I'm surprised that one of the Path's isn't Pact of Negation if for no other reason than the x3 Confidant. I'd probably cut 1 Zealous in your board too because it pretty much overlaps with a bunch of other things you already have.
As I said, i'm not a big fan of Pact of negation at the moment. It allows to stabilize the game but at the expense of losing one turn, so it is not as useful in the most situations. Why do you think zealous overlaps? It is thought against affinity, boogles, tokens, podless pod and specially infect
I got my Pacts confused. Guess I've sold too many parts of my soul and I need to pay up a bit. While Pact of Negation does get significantly better in Junk if you're running Heirarchs, I still don't recommend it anywhere in the 75
I got my Pacts confused. Guess I've sold too many parts of my soul and I need to pay up a bit. While Pact of Negation does get significantly better in Junk if you're running Heirarchs, I still don't recommend it anywhere in the 75
Just wanna share to you my recent list. Just entered a local GPT tourney and ended up being 2nd at the end of the 6th round. For the play offs, we decided to split the prizes amongst ourselves. My match up are as follows:
Round 1 vs UR Twin (1-0) - Goyfs and Dark Confidant let me win my 1st game. In the 2nd game, I was able to play Choke at the right time, a turn earlier before he plays his blood moon.
Round 2 vs Junk Collected Company (2-0) - 1st game I was beaten down to death by small creatures. Siege Rhino and lingering souls were my trump cards during my 2nd and 3rd games. He was not able to pull off his combo due to me constantly attacking him.
Round 3 vs UWR aggros (2-1) - 1st game I won with being aggressive. 2nd game, he won with his geists and burn spells. In the 3rd game, I made several errors in play, causing me to lose. I should have played Liliana of the Veil several turns earlier instead of being afraid of his counters... Oh well, charge it to experience I guess
Round 4 vs RG Tron (3-1) - 1st game scoop against Ugin planeswalker. 2nd games, I was able to pull of a quick win with my Goyf and early disruption courtesy of Thoughtseize x2. For our final game, a turn 1 Thoughtseize and turn 2 Stony Silence made me stay a while longer. He was able to destroy my Stony silence and complete his Tron lands but a well timed Thoughtseize courtesy of Mr Bob gave me a thoughtseize and discarding his Karn for next turn sealed the deal.
Round 5 vs RG Tron (4-1) - Early disruption with bob and lingering souls won me the 1st game. He was not able to draw a pyroclasm. Game 2, a turn 1 Thoughtseize and Turn 2 Stony Silence gave me some time. He was able to go online with his lands and put down two Wurmcoil engines via Eye of Ugin. Bob gave me Liliana of the veil and Path to exile. I was able to let him sacrifice his first engine then I destroyed his deathtouch token with Dismember leaving him with 1 lifelink wurm token and Wurmcoil engine. Path to Exile opened the way for me to attack freely.
Round 6 vs BRG Burn (4-1-1) - ID, but I think im gonna lose to this guy. His Atarka's command coupled with Monastery Swiftspears scares the heck out of me!
Conclusion: I still like using Dark Confidants on this deck. They are very good against Tron which are one of our saddest match up. I wanted to tweak my sideboards better against Burn and Tron which really gives me a hard time. Anyway, here is my list. Constructive criticisms are welcome. Thanks in advance!
Some of the cards I was thinking to replace:
1x Zealous persecution to 1x Golgari Charm
2x Back to Nature to 2x Kitchen Finks
1x Thrun, The Last Troll to 1x Batterskull
1x Gaze of Granite to 1x Engineered Explosives
How in the world do you beat burn ever? Ive been grinding junk and UR twin trying to figure out which im going to bring to charlotte, I have an IQ next sat to test in a semi competitive environment and I cannot beat burn, the mathup feels 80-20 in there favor no matter what I do.
Your decklist looks fine. I would just encourage you to be patient. The reason BG/x decks are so good is because we have very few "bad" matchups. With that being said, we have very few "easy" matchups as well. This deck will reward you for knowing it, as well as your meta, and the modern meta in general. Keep grinding and the wins will start to come together for you
How in the world do you beat burn ever? Ive been grinding junk and UR twin trying to figure out which im going to bring to charlotte, I have an IQ next sat to test in a semi competitive environment and I cannot beat burn, the mathup feels 80-20 in there favor no matter what I do.
Burn is not an easy matchup for us. Leyline of sanctity and feed the clan do a lot of work if you can stick early blockers. It's very draw dependent but it is winnable.
As a general rule, I don't fetch shock thoughtseize unless I know I'm playing against tron. In the burn match up I feel like if you can thoughtseize/IOK into goyf, you're usually good for at least a race--especially if they don't have any early guides. Kill the eidelon unless you're low on life or holding a rhino. I dunno, I feel like the match up is very 50/50 unless you're losing a lot game 2 on the play and never draw any of your hate.
My meta is a lot of burn, but I don't really feel like I need to dedicate much hate except for some leylines, timely reinforcements, feed the clans. I switch up the hate often, but am always running 3-4 pieces. Batterskull comes in too, but I don't consider it dedicated hate--as it has much more application in slower matchups.
Had a quick question on burn side tech, I know Timely Reinforcements and Feed the Clan are the main go-to's as of late, but often I find I play Feed for its 5 life instead of the 10 if I can find an early time when a burn player taps out (always play around Atarka's Command and Skullcrack). Is Feed that much better than Rest for the Weary where you can pull off the second mode much more easily?
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Well you can play Jund with it's lower curve. According to ktkenshinx it will probably join the Tier 1 section today.
Should you be one of those persons who cares about such labels
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Sorceries: 10
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
4 Lingering Souls
Instants: 8
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Path to Exile
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Murderous Cut
Planeswalkers: 4
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Batterskull
Lands: 23
3 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Murmuring Bosk
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Treetop Village
1 Gavony Township
1 Golgari Charm
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Darkblast
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Spellskite
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Choke
1 Curse of Death's Hold
This is the last list I ran. I think the changes that I would make to the list after playing last time would be:
-1 Liliana in the main for +1 Siege Rhino
-1 Duress in the main for +1 Thoughtseize
-1 Drown in Sorrow in the board for +1 Damnation
-2 Kitchen Finks in the board for +1 Dromaka's Command and +1 Liliana
2 Tasigur, the golden fang
3 Siege rhino
3 Birds of Paradise
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering souls
3 Path to Exile
1 Maelstrom pulse
4 Abrupt decay
1 Dismember
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sorin, solemn visitor
2 godless shrine
1 temple garden
4 verdant catacombs
3 marsh flats
1 windswept heath
2 stirring wildwood
2 swamp
2 forest
1 plains
1 vault of the archangel
1 gavony township
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth[/cards]
Let me know what you all think. I have been going 3-1/4-0/3-0-1 most times for last two-three months.
DECKS:
MODERN:
BUILT:
WBGJunkWBG
BURGrixis ControlBUR
BUILDING:
BGEldraziBG
I'm a bit concerned with your mana base too. The double utility lands are surprisingly taxing as you only have 15 green sources, 15 black sources and 14 white sources (not counting birds). I think I'd prefer a third manland over the second utility land. I think I'd like to find a room to add another black source because you're surprisingly black heavy. Not sure the best way to do it though. Maybe just 2 heirarchs 1 bird -1 forest for the third GW manland and -1 utility land for +1 fetchland.
There's nothing truly "at major fault" that I see other than the triple Path because the ramp Path gives is often quite relevant.
Thanks for the feedback, I don't have hierarchs yet so that's why I use Birds, but I do have 3 boxes of MM2 on pre-order maybe ill get good luck and open some lol. But I think I will try removing 1 path and the land switch up, but not sure if I would do cut seeing how I run tasigurs as well, maybe ill try out a slaughter pact not sure. But again thank you I have been running the deck for basically the two or so months lol and still learning. For what people call a goodstuff deck it has a lot of lines of play and things to use so I think that makes it challenging.
DECKS:
MODERN:
BUILT:
WBGJunkWBG
BURGrixis ControlBUR
BUILDING:
BGEldraziBG
It might be blasphemous, but I think Liliana is really bad right now. There are very few matches where I want her in, so she has been relegated to the board (or left out all together). Boggles she is an all-star. She's not bad in infect, but again that relies on them not having inkmoth early and/or you not having path). I'm as big a Liliana fan as anyone (I play legacy pox, after all), but she just seems "meh" whenever I cast her.
I've been experimenting with Monastery Mentor and it seems pretty strong. Most of our issues seem to come when we can't 1-for-1 our opponents. I've found that this helps keep up on board when I'm busy abrupt decaying or pathing creatures. It also gives me a decent fighting chance against burn (although I feel that match is much more reliant on siege rhino). If nothing else, it forces the burn to hit the creature instead of my face.
I played about 10 games yesterday against the Junk Collected Company (new pod) deck and the constant 2-for1's ran me out of the game. That is a hard matchup, to the point that I almost feel like cage has to go back in the board. I've also been experimenting w/ Teeg in the board against Tron (I currently don't have fulminator Mages). They at least keep Karn and Ugin at bay, then my big worries are wurmcoil, which I can hold path for. It turns out if you make collected company play fair, they just lose.
Thoughts?
Shawn
I'm sooo confused?
Pact Of Negation ????
Probably meant Slaughter Pact.
There is something really wrong if you are playing Pact of Negation in your Abzan list
Or you can play Sundial of the Infinite
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Just wanna share to you my recent list. Just entered a local GPT tourney and ended up being 2nd at the end of the 6th round. For the play offs, we decided to split the prizes amongst ourselves. My match up are as follows:
Round 1 vs UR Twin (1-0) - Goyfs and Dark Confidant let me win my 1st game. In the 2nd game, I was able to play Choke at the right time, a turn earlier before he plays his blood moon.
Round 2 vs Junk Collected Company (2-0) - 1st game I was beaten down to death by small creatures. Siege Rhino and lingering souls were my trump cards during my 2nd and 3rd games. He was not able to pull off his combo due to me constantly attacking him.
Round 3 vs UWR aggros (2-1) - 1st game I won with being aggressive. 2nd game, he won with his geists and burn spells. In the 3rd game, I made several errors in play, causing me to lose. I should have played Liliana of the Veil several turns earlier instead of being afraid of his counters... Oh well, charge it to experience I guess
Round 4 vs RG Tron (3-1) - 1st game scoop against Ugin planeswalker. 2nd games, I was able to pull of a quick win with my Goyf and early disruption courtesy of Thoughtseize x2. For our final game, a turn 1 Thoughtseize and turn 2 Stony Silence made me stay a while longer. He was able to destroy my Stony silence and complete his Tron lands but a well timed Thoughtseize courtesy of Mr Bob gave me a thoughtseize and discarding his Karn for next turn sealed the deal.
Round 5 vs RG Tron (4-1) - Early disruption with bob and lingering souls won me the 1st game. He was not able to draw a pyroclasm. Game 2, a turn 1 Thoughtseize and Turn 2 Stony Silence gave me some time. He was able to go online with his lands and put down two Wurmcoil engines via Eye of Ugin. Bob gave me Liliana of the veil and Path to exile. I was able to let him sacrifice his first engine then I destroyed his deathtouch token with Dismember leaving him with 1 lifelink wurm token and Wurmcoil engine. Path to Exile opened the way for me to attack freely.
Round 6 vs BRG Burn (4-1-1) - ID, but I think im gonna lose to this guy. His Atarka's command coupled with Monastery Swiftspears scares the heck out of me!
Conclusion: I still like using Dark Confidants on this deck. They are very good against Tron which are one of our saddest match up. I wanted to tweak my sideboards better against Burn and Tron which really gives me a hard time. Anyway, here is my list. Constructive criticisms are welcome. Thanks in advance!
Some of the cards I was thinking to replace:
1x Zealous persecution to 1x Golgari Charm
2x Back to Nature to 2x Kitchen Finks
1x Thrun, The Last Troll to 1x Batterskull
1x Gaze of Granite to 1x Engineered Explosives
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Dark Confidant
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Siege Rhino
Spells: 22
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Path to Exile
4x Abrupt Decay
1x Zealous persecution
1x Dismember
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Liliana of the Veil
2x Lingering Souls
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Temple Garden
1x Godless Shrine
1x Horizon Canopy
3x Treetop Village
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Tectonic Edge
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Forest
3x Stony Silence
1x Creeping Corrosion
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Thrun, The Last Troll
1x Choke
3x Back to Nature
1x Gaze of Granite
2x Illness in the Ranks
WBG Abzan's Junk WBG
BRG Jund BRG
BRG Living End BRG
BGU Sultai BGU
EDH
R Purphoros, God of the Forge R
Pauper
RBGU Affinity RBGU
We will rebuild.
Burn is not an easy matchup for us. Leyline of sanctity and feed the clan do a lot of work if you can stick early blockers. It's very draw dependent but it is winnable.
WURMiraclesRWU
UBRCruel ControlRBU
If you're having fun, I'm not.
My meta is a lot of burn, but I don't really feel like I need to dedicate much hate except for some leylines, timely reinforcements, feed the clans. I switch up the hate often, but am always running 3-4 pieces. Batterskull comes in too, but I don't consider it dedicated hate--as it has much more application in slower matchups.
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR