I'll go all out. Lead with the shrine untapped and seize some thoughts. Play a goyf and start beating.
That being said, in the current meta game, playing the fetch and passing would be a wiser choice. Grab a black producing land and seize them turn 2 playing the shrine tapped. Then drop Lili or goyf based on the information you have.
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Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
T1 fetch for overgrown then seize is better than dropping the shrine for seize. It means you don't have to fetch for a shock t2. Unless the fetch is verdant and you grab basic forest t2.
T1 fetch for overgrown then seize is better than dropping the shrine for seize. It means you don't have to fetch for a shock t2. Unless the fetch is verdant and you grab basic forest t2.
Better hope that you are not playing against Burn then
I would personally drop the shrine and seize.
The kicker here is that you have a turn 2 play with Goyf. Without it I would just play the fetch or the shrine tapped and pass and seize on turn 2.
My thoughts exactly. I never like taking a Lightning Axe to the face on turn one.
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Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
T1 fetch for overgrown then seize is better than dropping the shrine for seize. It means you don't have to fetch for a shock t2. Unless the fetch is verdant and you grab basic forest t2.
Better hope that you are not playing against Burn then
I would personally drop the shrine and seize.
The kicker here is that you have a turn 2 play with Goyf. Without it I would just play the fetch or the shrine tapped and pass and seize on turn 2.
but that's exactly what I'm talking about. If the fetch is marsh flats then to play goyf t2 you have to fetch an untapped overgrown. So it's better to fetch it T1 for discard then play the plains in hand t2 for goyf. My way lose 3 life on lands. Your way lose 5 life on lands.
T1 fetch for overgrown then seize is better than dropping the shrine for seize. It means you don't have to fetch for a shock t2. Unless the fetch is verdant and you grab basic forest t2.
Better hope that you are not playing against Burn then
I would personally drop the shrine and seize.
The kicker here is that you have a turn 2 play with Goyf. Without it I would just play the fetch or the shrine tapped and pass and seize on turn 2.
but that's exactly what I'm talking about. If the fetch is marsh flats then to play goyf t2 you have to fetch an untapped overgrown. So it's better to fetch it T1 for discard then play the plains in hand t2 for goyf. My way lose 3 life on lands. Your way lose 5 life on lands.
T1 fetch for overgrown then seize is better than dropping the shrine for seize. It means you don't have to fetch for a shock t2. Unless the fetch is verdant and you grab basic forest t2.
Better hope that you are not playing against Burn then
I would personally drop the shrine and seize.
The kicker here is that you have a turn 2 play with Goyf. Without it I would just play the fetch or the shrine tapped and pass and seize on turn 2.
but that's exactly what I'm talking about. If the fetch is marsh flats then to play goyf t2 you have to fetch an untapped overgrown. So it's better to fetch it T1 for discard then play the plains in hand t2 for goyf. My way lose 3 life on lands. Your way lose 5 life on lands.
they do but if you fetch for basic forest then you're not guaranteed double black for the Lili in hand. On the play against unknown opponent with that hand I think it's best to fetch for overgrown T1. That gives you best combo for hitting your discard goyf Lili curve and preserving as much life as you can and giving you the ability to adapt your plan on the fly.
In some builds yes. I ran it for a long time and she is great, a win con, utility, etc. Just don't view her as goyf-lite because she isn't. Lots of players choose not to run her in this because she is slow and other things are just better more often than not, making space for Knight difficult to find. In a fair format with grindy decks she shines and can pull off great combat tricks. In a fast/aggressive meta she is not what you typically want.
I would run knight as a 2 of alongside 4 goyfs. I was thinking that activating vault turn 5 against aggressive decks would be good, activating tectonic edge turn 4 against Tron and Amulet would be good, and grabbing manlands, utility lands, and tec. Edges every turn against the mirror would be awesome.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I would run knight as a 2 of alongside 4 goyfs. I was thinking that activating vault turn 5 against aggressive decks would be good, activating tectonic edge turn 4 against Tron and Amulet would be good, and grabbing manlands, utility lands, and tec. Edges every turn against the mirror would be awesome.
Dude if you want edges every turn in the mirror try life from the loam. That is one of the best tec cards I've found. I could see running knights but they might dilute our gameplan too much? I'm in the camp explodingwaffle mentioned where I think she is too slow and I would prefer running more removal in her place.
edit: also post 151! That's a bit deal apparently.
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Find something, Live For it, Fight for it, Die for it. Then it might get passed on the the next generation.
Sorry for not keeping up lately but I have a few comments on the above topics.
1: on the thoughtseize question it really depends on the fetch land (as stated above ) and whas for turn 2 what you draw. i would go ballsout.fetching the appropriate shock turn one.I feel like information and preparation are paramount in our early turns.
2:on the knight. I think she is bad ass.I would have trouble finding the room though. right now I love all of my turn 3 plays.Lillian is amazing. souls is almost always good. (I run the courser because it helps to mitigate some of the early damage done by the opponent and myself in the early stages of the game. having a 4 toughness when it drops and the ability to gain me some life go a long way in this deck for me.the "card advantage " is helpful as well I replaced bob with a 25 land and 3 courser.I live a lot longer now and don't stress about early aggro burn or doing some damage to myself in the first few turns to rip important pieces from my opponent's hand..
3:I can back up the claim that a one of loam in the board is great ni run 2x ghost quarter main and a third in the side with loam. it is just to strong against strong against tron scape,infect, decks that have already fetched out a bunch of basics and a few others.
I am going to preemptive strike against ghost quarter naysayers. It is just to good against a large portion of the field to run edge instead of quarter. If you haven't tested it against tron, affinity, infect, bloom,infect you should give it a try. running it along side path is pretty funny against greedy decks. sometimes they wiff and don't have a basic to pull after getting hit by a few of these
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Decks: standard
N/A
Modern
Dredge vine
4 color gifts
Junk midrange
Daga control
Rb burn
Soul sisters
If you're running path and ghost quarter MB you may want to try running Aven mindcensor MB. I know, it's another 3 drop. What do people think of running 3 lily MB and 3 souls MB, with one of each in the side, in order to cut down on the number of 3 drops?
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I'm really happy with the way the list has turned out and the sideboarding plans I have for every match-up. It really operates like a well-oiled machine. However, I'm at work at the moment. So, rather than going into detail about the list, I'll just pop in and answer any inquiries that you folks might have.
Let's talk strategy. I'm often not sure how suicidal I should allow myself to be on turn 1.
It's G1, you don't know your opponent's deck, you're on the play. You mull to six and start with fetchland, Godless Shrine, Plains, Thoughtseize, Goyf, Liliana. When do you Thoughtseize?
In the current meta i play the godless shrine tapped and pass. Too likely to be burn and twin running around to goto 15 for a TS with that hand.
t2 is thoughtseize then play a land.
Its important to play the godless shrine first and not the fetchland. 1. they might put you on the wrong deck 2. Thoughtseize might reveal a blood moon so you'd want to be able to get a basic forest 3. you might draw a manland so you'd rather play that t2 then sac the verdant for a swamp t3 for lily.
To get a big goyf out t2 with that hand you either go to 13 or choose to not play liliana t2. Both of which you will lose the game vs most of the meta. Therefore I like throsts line. The fetch shock thoughtseize days are in the past.
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Find something, Live For it, Fight for it, Die for it. Then it might get passed on the the next generation.
Hey guys, so i haven't been playing Modern at all since Burn was rampant (switched to legacy), but i stumbled upon some decklists and i realized A LOT of changes
And why do we run Path to Exile and Noble Hierarchs? has the meta really increased in that much speed? up to the point where we look more like an aggro deck rather than midrange as well as abandoning the resource denial thing we had going on
Hey guys, so i haven't been playing Modern at all since Burn was rampant (switched to legacy), but i stumbled upon some decklists and i realized A LOT of changes
And why do we run Path to Exile and Noble Hierarchs? has the meta really increased in that much speed? up to the point where we look more like an aggro deck rather than midrange as well as abandoning the resource denial thing we had going on
It's still very much based on preference, and I for one am still not a fan of Hierarch, but I understand why people play it. The Hierarch version wants it's mana even more than usual, and it uses the land flex slots for Gavony Township for mirror-breaking purposes, and to help use the extra mana from Hierarch later in the game. But for the rest of your questions, here's the jist:
Path because Rhino, and a lesser extent because Twin, Titan, Wurm, etc. Rhino mirrors involve many 4/5s now, and over half of them can't be Decayed or Pacted, so Path steps in. Also, with Burn so popular, it's better than Dismember and other "3-drop" removal. Once you bring in Path, Tec Edge plan gets a bit worse, and also we generally want all our lands now, more than before, because Rhino + Tasigur is huge. We also graduated up to Stirring Wildwood over Treetop, so more mana needed there too.
Once you make Tec Edge a little worse, and you need more colored sources because Rhino, it makes less sense to have as many of them, so most folks shave down to 1-2 copies and either run more colorful lands, or utility lands like Gavony/Vault, or more manlands, or just shave a land down to 24. I still like Tec Edge, but I've been considering a single Vault and more manlands myself. It's just not as good as it once was, and we are more color committed than BG/w Souls used to be.
I still don't play Hierarch though.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
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That being said, in the current meta game, playing the fetch and passing would be a wiser choice. Grab a black producing land and seize them turn 2 playing the shrine tapped. Then drop Lili or goyf based on the information you have.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Better hope that you are not playing against Burn then
I would personally drop the shrine and seize.
The kicker here is that you have a turn 2 play with Goyf. Without it I would just play the fetch or the shrine tapped and pass and seize on turn 2.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Yeah it obviously depends on what fetchland you have. With a Verdant Catacombs or Windswept Heath things look differently.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Dude if you want edges every turn in the mirror try life from the loam. That is one of the best tec cards I've found. I could see running knights but they might dilute our gameplan too much? I'm in the camp explodingwaffle mentioned where I think she is too slow and I would prefer running more removal in her place.
edit: also post 151! That's a bit deal apparently.
1: on the thoughtseize question it really depends on the fetch land (as stated above ) and whas for turn 2 what you draw. i would go ballsout.fetching the appropriate shock turn one.I feel like information and preparation are paramount in our early turns.
2:on the knight. I think she is bad ass.I would have trouble finding the room though. right now I love all of my turn 3 plays.Lillian is amazing. souls is almost always good. (I run the courser because it helps to mitigate some of the early damage done by the opponent and myself in the early stages of the game. having a 4 toughness when it drops and the ability to gain me some life go a long way in this deck for me.the "card advantage " is helpful as well I replaced bob with a 25 land and 3 courser.I live a lot longer now and don't stress about early aggro burn or doing some damage to myself in the first few turns to rip important pieces from my opponent's hand..
3:I can back up the claim that a one of loam in the board is great ni run 2x ghost quarter main and a third in the side with loam. it is just to strong against strong against tron scape,infect, decks that have already fetched out a bunch of basics and a few others.
I am going to preemptive strike against ghost quarter naysayers. It is just to good against a large portion of the field to run edge instead of quarter. If you haven't tested it against tron, affinity, infect, bloom,infect you should give it a try. running it along side path is pretty funny against greedy decks. sometimes they wiff and don't have a basic to pull after getting hit by a few of these
N/A
Modern
Dredge vine
4 color gifts
Junk midrange
Daga control
Rb burn
Soul sisters
Legacy
The gate
Zombie bombardment
Burn
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Siege Rhino
4 Lingering Souls
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Removal/Disruption: 14
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Zealous Persecution
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
2 Twilight Mire
1 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Duress
2 Disfigure
2 Feed the Clan
2 Stony Silence
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Thragtusk
I'm really happy with the way the list has turned out and the sideboarding plans I have for every match-up. It really operates like a well-oiled machine. However, I'm at work at the moment. So, rather than going into detail about the list, I'll just pop in and answer any inquiries that you folks might have.
Toodle-pip!
Modern Decks:
Grixis Twin
Abzan/Junk Midrange
N/A
Modern
Dredge vine
4 color gifts
Junk midrange
Daga control
Rb burn
Soul sisters
Legacy
The gate
Zombie bombardment
Burn
In the current meta i play the godless shrine tapped and pass. Too likely to be burn and twin running around to goto 15 for a TS with that hand.
t2 is thoughtseize then play a land.
Its important to play the godless shrine first and not the fetchland. 1. they might put you on the wrong deck 2. Thoughtseize might reveal a blood moon so you'd want to be able to get a basic forest 3. you might draw a manland so you'd rather play that t2 then sac the verdant for a swamp t3 for lily.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Mind if i ask some questions?
Why dont we run Tectonic Edges?
And why do we run Path to Exile and Noble Hierarchs? has the meta really increased in that much speed? up to the point where we look more like an aggro deck rather than midrange as well as abandoning the resource denial thing we had going on
It's still very much based on preference, and I for one am still not a fan of Hierarch, but I understand why people play it. The Hierarch version wants it's mana even more than usual, and it uses the land flex slots for Gavony Township for mirror-breaking purposes, and to help use the extra mana from Hierarch later in the game. But for the rest of your questions, here's the jist:
Path because Rhino, and a lesser extent because Twin, Titan, Wurm, etc. Rhino mirrors involve many 4/5s now, and over half of them can't be Decayed or Pacted, so Path steps in. Also, with Burn so popular, it's better than Dismember and other "3-drop" removal. Once you bring in Path, Tec Edge plan gets a bit worse, and also we generally want all our lands now, more than before, because Rhino + Tasigur is huge. We also graduated up to Stirring Wildwood over Treetop, so more mana needed there too.
Once you make Tec Edge a little worse, and you need more colored sources because Rhino, it makes less sense to have as many of them, so most folks shave down to 1-2 copies and either run more colorful lands, or utility lands like Gavony/Vault, or more manlands, or just shave a land down to 24. I still like Tec Edge, but I've been considering a single Vault and more manlands myself. It's just not as good as it once was, and we are more color committed than BG/w Souls used to be.
I still don't play Hierarch though.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB