Does Thundermaw Hellkite have a place in Modern decklists? I am debating building a standard RDW decklist but want to be able to use the big money cards in other builds other then standard to extend my dollar.
Does Thundermaw Hellkite have a place in Modern decklists? I am debating building a standard RDW decklist but want to be able to use the big money cards in other builds other then standard to extend my dollar.
I wouldn't think so, he is way too slow if you wanna play him try build a deck that is more midrangey and works better later game. He has no real business in a deck as aggressive as Rdw.
Large creatures also blow in your opening hand, though, and they can mean not killing by Turn 3-4 with stunning regularity. Some Modern decks, like UR Storm and Affinity, can pressure you into winning by Turn 4 or else.
I've been play testing this deck a ton on cockatrice and feel confident enough to begin to foil it out for when modern becomes a option for FNM. This is similar to rakdos aggro.
Similar Builds have been 4-0ing on MTGO. Just a quick word on two cards.
Deathrite Shaman is such a house, it gives you everything you want from Grim lavamancer but more; a bigger butt, mana acceleration and the ability to hit their dome for 2 all the while removing key cards from their grave yard and in a mirror match that 4-6 life gain swing makes all the difference.
Thunderous Wrath, yes getting an open grip with one or both of these isn't ideal, but when you go into top deck mode (which is often) they're a luxury every red mage can afford.
Thunderous Wrath...I'll break it down in the simplest way possible.
Average game you want to kill in 4 turns. You start with 7 cards. Meaning it's a dead card over twice as often as you will draw it. And a dead card in RDW...means you likely lose, since every card counts. And sends you into topdeck(bad) mode more often.
And when you ARE in topdeck mode, the 1cmc doesn't really matter. You could afford 3+ mana if thats your whole turn.
Does Rakdos Pit Dragon have any place in a red aggro that curves up to Thundermaw Hellkite? With a clear field, it seems like Dubstriker Pit Dragon + Thundermaw = GG. We could also have Vexing Shusher to push our threats through...
Can someone explain to me the Vexing Devil love in Modern? The card is awful in Standard and tends to make decks that play it lose lol. Is it just purely a speed thing here?
Can someone explain to me the Vexing Devil love in Modern? The card is awful in Standard and tends to make decks that play it lose lol. Is it just purely a speed thing here?
The simple fact that standard RDW is weaker means that if they take the 4 early, you've given up your board position(standard is more creatures), and you won't have the burn to finish them. In modern you have the tools to take advantage no matter which way they go, in standard you only want it to be a creature. The burn early does very little for you.
Modern:
1. Vex deals 4
2. Vex deals 4, bolt for 3
3. bolt, bolt, bolt for 9
(not too much a stretch, given you have 16 bolts in the deck)
Standard:
1. Vex deals 4
2. Vex deals 4, cackler
3. Cackler, Chain-walker?
So you are left with a weak field, not very threatening. You've given up your first turn and a half to lose some cards and have nothing on board to show for it. So you're fighting an uphill battle with a few weak creatures and no hand to speak of.
Vexing Devil still isn't as awful in standard as most people say. Most just draw a false allegory to Browbeat.
Can someone explain to me the Vexing Devil love in Modern? The card is awful in Standard and tends to make decks that play it lose lol. Is it just purely a speed thing here?
Vexing Devil is better in Modern and Legacy because their RDW/Burn decks are significantly faster. A lot of the time, the correct choice for the opponent is to just take the 4 damage, and when I'm playing RDW/Burn, I'm happy with that outcome.
Modern and Legacy RDW/Burn depends a lot on its opening hand and not a lot on the fewer cards it topdecks. Vexing Devil is powerful enough in the opening hand (or at least the first 2 turns of the game) that I'll take 4 of him.
Vexing Devil is better in Modern and Legacy because their RDW/Burn decks are significantly faster. A lot of the time, the correct choice for the opponent is to just take the 4 damage, and when I'm playing RDW/Burn, I'm happy with that outcome.
Modern and Legacy RDW/Burn depends a lot on its opening hand and not a lot on the fewer cards it topdecks. Vexing Devil is powerful enough in the opening hand (or at least the first 2 turns of the game) that I'll take 4 of him.
Im still curious though as to the cutting of Ball Lightning. Which used to be a staple in the deck. Despite more removal and more first strike than currently exist.
The reason for the molten rains mb is because there is a lot of tron in my meta but generally I agree.
Why so many rain of gores in sb? And dragons claw for the mirror?
I appolagize I don't mean to come off rude. So please don't take offense
No worries. Unless you play against more than any other deck though, I'd still keep them in the SB. Remember, you want to build good habits for bigger tournaments too, where Tron will only be a small percentage of the field.
The decklist I used above was one I found online from the recent MODO success stories. I made a few quick changes to it before posting it, which is why there is an extra Searing Blaze. Personally, I'd probably play 3-4 Searing Blaze main, and none in the board. Unless the meta shifts, you almost always will have a target.
Dragon's Claw probably isn't necessary in real life, but online RDW is relatively popular, so being prepared for the mirror is important. I'm not sure what exactly I'd run for a SB in paper form, but it most likely would have less Dragon's Claws and Rain of Gores. Almost everyone has Rain of Gore though, so it must be important against Tron and other Batterskulls, not to mention opposing Deathrites.
@Draek: I do agree 18 lands is pretty light, 20 is probably a bit safer. A friend also suggested running a single Stomping Ground, which makes Deathrite much more powerful in the mirror, and allows you to run Naturalize in the board when necessary. But you definitely need 20 lands (all 8 fetches) to support the 3rd color. Not a huge fan of Magma Jet though.
I wouldn't think so, he is way too slow if you wanna play him try build a deck that is more midrangey and works better later game. He has no real business in a deck as aggressive as Rdw.
URBURB
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Ash Zealot
4 Keldon Marauders
2 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Magma Jet
3 Bump in the Night
4 Shrine of Burning Rage
Lands:
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
15 Mountains
I don't see why people say no to large creatures. There is nothing worse than running out of gas by turn 5.
The Boros-based version seems to be doing well in all tournaments.
This card used to be a staple in RDW. Even in formats that held much more removal than current Modern. Why has it been cut from so many lists?
I get it, it dies to removal. I also get that its crushed by first strike. But its had these flaws forever and still seen play. So why not in Modern?
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Goblin Guide
3 Hellspark Elemental
4 Spark Elemental
4 Vexing Devil
Spells 24
2 Flames of the blood hand
2 Thunderous Wrath
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Sulfurous Springs
3 Blood Crypt
3 Teetering Peaks
4 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
2 Combust
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Rain of Gore
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Blood Moon
2 Smash to Smithereens
Similar Builds have been 4-0ing on MTGO. Just a quick word on two cards.
Deathrite Shaman is such a house, it gives you everything you want from Grim lavamancer but more; a bigger butt, mana acceleration and the ability to hit their dome for 2 all the while removing key cards from their grave yard and in a mirror match that 4-6 life gain swing makes all the difference.
Thunderous Wrath, yes getting an open grip with one or both of these isn't ideal, but when you go into top deck mode (which is often) they're a luxury every red mage can afford.
Average game you want to kill in 4 turns. You start with 7 cards. Meaning it's a dead card over twice as often as you will draw it. And a dead card in RDW...means you likely lose, since every card counts. And sends you into topdeck(bad) mode more often.
And when you ARE in topdeck mode, the 1cmc doesn't really matter. You could afford 3+ mana if thats your whole turn.
I personally hate it in RDW.
The simple fact that standard RDW is weaker means that if they take the 4 early, you've given up your board position(standard is more creatures), and you won't have the burn to finish them. In modern you have the tools to take advantage no matter which way they go, in standard you only want it to be a creature. The burn early does very little for you.
Modern:
1. Vex deals 4
2. Vex deals 4, bolt for 3
3. bolt, bolt, bolt for 9
(not too much a stretch, given you have 16 bolts in the deck)
Standard:
1. Vex deals 4
2. Vex deals 4, cackler
3. Cackler, Chain-walker?
So you are left with a weak field, not very threatening. You've given up your first turn and a half to lose some cards and have nothing on board to show for it. So you're fighting an uphill battle with a few weak creatures and no hand to speak of.
Vexing Devil still isn't as awful in standard as most people say. Most just draw a false allegory to Browbeat.
Vexing Devil is better in Modern and Legacy because their RDW/Burn decks are significantly faster. A lot of the time, the correct choice for the opponent is to just take the 4 damage, and when I'm playing RDW/Burn, I'm happy with that outcome.
Modern and Legacy RDW/Burn depends a lot on its opening hand and not a lot on the fewer cards it topdecks. Vexing Devil is powerful enough in the opening hand (or at least the first 2 turns of the game) that I'll take 4 of him.
Im still curious though as to the cutting of Ball Lightning. Which used to be a staple in the deck. Despite more removal and more first strike than currently exist.
Also Lectrys, do you play every modern deck lol?
Yup, I've tried out every prominent Modern deck on Cockatrice and quite a few brews, too.
Unfortunately, I don't have very much time to play against others (I usually play more against opponents when I'm on break).
Any advice would be nice.
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Teetering Peaks
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Hellspark Elemental
4 Vexing Devil
2 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
2 Shard Volley
2 Dragon's Claw
3 Rain of Gore
3 Rakdos Charm
1 Searing Blaze
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Sudden Shock
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
The reason for the molten rains mb is because there is a lot of tron in my meta but generally I agree.
Why so many rain of gores in sb? And dragons claw for the mirror?
I appolagize I don't mean to come off rude. So please don't take offense
No worries. Unless you play against more than any other deck though, I'd still keep them in the SB. Remember, you want to build good habits for bigger tournaments too, where Tron will only be a small percentage of the field.
The decklist I used above was one I found online from the recent MODO success stories. I made a few quick changes to it before posting it, which is why there is an extra Searing Blaze. Personally, I'd probably play 3-4 Searing Blaze main, and none in the board. Unless the meta shifts, you almost always will have a target.
Dragon's Claw probably isn't necessary in real life, but online RDW is relatively popular, so being prepared for the mirror is important. I'm not sure what exactly I'd run for a SB in paper form, but it most likely would have less Dragon's Claws and Rain of Gores. Almost everyone has Rain of Gore though, so it must be important against Tron and other Batterskulls, not to mention opposing Deathrites.
@Draek: I do agree 18 lands is pretty light, 20 is probably a bit safer. A friend also suggested running a single Stomping Ground, which makes Deathrite much more powerful in the mirror, and allows you to run Naturalize in the board when necessary. But you definitely need 20 lands (all 8 fetches) to support the 3rd color. Not a huge fan of Magma Jet though.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB