I'm liking Nikachu's thinking that the 20th land is actually more of a spell, so a Tec-Edge or Ghost Quarter main deck is not a bad idea, especially if you are on 8Seas/mana denial. Obvious Tec-Edge is better in that case.
how many run 19 lands VS 20, i dropped to 19, and boy did got mana screwed. In my mind i am thinking it was the change, but it seems so many good players and pros play 19x. I am playing the 8seas version. so any pros over 19 vs 20
I´ve always been strict at playing 20 lands but I am currently trying out a 19 land build. However, I only do that because I play two mainboard relics so I have ten cantrips to help me get to my required amount of lands. Also, if you do play 19 lands, the commonly sideboarded Tectonic Edges become even more of a must since you can not expect to be able to support three and four drops with a 19 land deck if you board out vials.
The statistical difference between 19 and 20 lands is very minor and you will only be able to find a significant difference after like a hundred games. It´s a common saying of pro players that the averave deck builder plays 1.5 lands less than they should, so I prefer to stay on the safe side and play 20 lands.
I won so many tournaments with 20 land that 19 was never in contention. No reason to change what works.
I could see myself side out a land against Path decks, for obv reasons.
The best Merfolk results in Modern were with 20 lands, someone corrects me if I am wrong (all GP top8, all RPtq (except Greece) and Wmcq wins...).
It is funny that my Legacy Merfolk has 21 lands without 4-drops and with free spells, so that makes me even less inclined to play 19 in Modern.
Is there any hope that we get an updated primer soon?
Can't believe that we don't have a merfolk player who is skilled enough both in playing and in writing. Or maybe there is a problem in access to the first post in the thread to correct it?
It's just so sad that one of the most hot threads has an awfully out of date primer
I'd be willing to take a stab at writing the primer. I've played merfolk for about three years now and am a frequent poster in this thread.
And of course, writing the primer should be a group effort. I could write up the first version and then people can comment on what should be added or changed.
It would be great!
Nikachu, what do you think about it?
A fresh primer would also answer some basic questions (on card choices, strategies, etc.) that are inevitably and repeatedly asked by newbs in merfolk (like me), and so the thread would be much more efficient!
I won so many tournaments with 20 land that 19 was never in contention. No reason to change what works. I could see myself side out a land against Path decks, for obv reasons. The best Merfolk results in Modern were with 20 lands, someone corrects me if I am wrong (all GP top8, all RPtq (except Greece) and Wmcq wins...).
It is funny that my Legacy Merfolk has 21 lands without 4-drops and with free spells, so that makes me even less inclined to play 19 in Modern.
Heyyyyy, maybe that means Path should be our secret tech for the mirror match
Do we need updated Primer?
I mean, our opponents can gain all the knowledge in concise form from it while they will not "waste" time reading 400 pages.
At the same time new Merfolk players will find this board somewhat entertaining to read and learn all the changes that went through lists.
A new primer isn't THAT necessary but it has some bad information right now (nothing on Harbinger of the Tides, dated matchup analysis and Nikachu should definitely get mentioned in video coverage). The big issue is mostly that the post owner isn't active anymore so updates aren't possible
I actually tried the Cryptic Command builds when I first picked up the deck since the card was the reason I wanted to play modern at all and the textless ones have a merfolk hand XD. It works if you include Nykthos, but just makes everything else seem so clunky.
Do we need updated Primer?
I mean, our opponents can gain all the knowledge in concise form from it while they will not "waste" time reading 400 pages.
At the same time new Merfolk players will find this board somewhat entertaining to read and learn all the changes that went through lists.
It is funny that my Legacy Merfolk has 21 lands without 4-drops and with free spells, so that makes me even less inclined to play 19 in Modern.
That might be because of the importance of TNN
It is, as much as Waves in Modern. All the more reason to not play 19 lands and 4 4-drops.
I agree with this. As much as I can see it, I don't think I'd go below 20 lands in modern simply because getting the 4th land for Master on time is pretty important (Hell, even the Double Lord play).
Spell snare is actually a very strong card against loam pox, and its a reasonable card to sideboard in fish. Otherwise, you have to just vomit out as many fish as you possibly can and hope it gets there. Countering an early loam, vortex, or souls/blocker is ideal in that it might give us a turn or two to win. Ideally we'll have/keep a fast enough hand that bother raven's crime and flame jab are mediocre against us, but its not always possible. Its a fairly tough matchup, especially when you have little disruption.
Thoughts on Adaptive Automaton ? Blocks etched champion, acts as another lord (though at 3 cmc), and can be cast with brown mana, or vialed in. It also become a fish, benefiting from other lords. It does give extra targets for Kolaghan's Command.
Ok, i want opinions. NOW so I am a strong Dismember supporter, before 8seas i ran 3x main, 1x in side, and 2x snag. now with 8seas I play 2x dis and 1x snag. thinking though since i am mana denial. would yo move 3x dismember to side and run 3x vapor snag main, to bounce and mana screw them. decks with 2-3x colors would hurt bad IMO. would love your say as i am taking 8seas back to FNM for the first time since mid October.
Thoughts on Adaptive Automaton ? Blocks etched champion, acts as another lord (though at 3 cmc), and can be cast with brown mana, or vialed in. It also become a fish, benefiting from other lords. It does give extra targets for Kolaghan's Command.
In addition to the reasons above, it doesn't even provide devotion for Master of Waves. This thing is terrible.
UUUGH, alright. Can someone send me an example of what the primer should look like? If I happen to make this primer, should we start a new thread if we cannot replace that abomination in the beginning?
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
The merfolk assassin seems a little narrow in the sideboard for the last two lists. I guess they were expecting a ton of Merfolk? But even then it doesn't kill a lord unless they have a second one.
I´ve always been strict at playing 20 lands but I am currently trying out a 19 land build. However, I only do that because I play two mainboard relics so I have ten cantrips to help me get to my required amount of lands. Also, if you do play 19 lands, the commonly sideboarded Tectonic Edges become even more of a must since you can not expect to be able to support three and four drops with a 19 land deck if you board out vials.
The statistical difference between 19 and 20 lands is very minor and you will only be able to find a significant difference after like a hundred games. It´s a common saying of pro players that the averave deck builder plays 1.5 lands less than they should, so I prefer to stay on the safe side and play 20 lands.
I could see myself side out a land against Path decks, for obv reasons.
The best Merfolk results in Modern were with 20 lands, someone corrects me if I am wrong (all GP top8, all RPtq (except Greece) and Wmcq wins...).
It is funny that my Legacy Merfolk has 21 lands without 4-drops and with free spells, so that makes me even less inclined to play 19 in Modern.
Can't believe that we don't have a merfolk player who is skilled enough both in playing and in writing. Or maybe there is a problem in access to the first post in the thread to correct it?
It's just so sad that one of the most hot threads has an awfully out of date primer
And of course, writing the primer should be a group effort. I could write up the first version and then people can comment on what should be added or changed.
Nikachu, what do you think about it?
A fresh primer would also answer some basic questions (on card choices, strategies, etc.) that are inevitably and repeatedly asked by newbs in merfolk (like me), and so the thread would be much more efficient!
Heyyyyy, maybe that means Path should be our secret tech for the mirror match
I mean, our opponents can gain all the knowledge in concise form from it while they will not "waste" time reading 400 pages.
At the same time new Merfolk players will find this board somewhat entertaining to read and learn all the changes that went through lists.
It is, as much as Waves in Modern. All the more reason to not play 19 lands and 4 4-drops.
I actually tried the Cryptic Command builds when I first picked up the deck since the card was the reason I wanted to play modern at all and the textless ones have a merfolk hand XD. It works if you include Nykthos, but just makes everything else seem so clunky.
I agree with this. As much as I can see it, I don't think I'd go below 20 lands in modern simply because getting the 4th land for Master on time is pretty important (Hell, even the Double Lord play).
Modern UMerfolkU
Legacy UMerfolkU
Standard XWhatever's GoodX
In addition to the reasons above, it doesn't even provide devotion for Master of Waves. This thing is terrible.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/rptq-top-8-decklists/oath-of-the-gatewatch-rptq-sao-paulo-2015-11-07 - GUILHERME F ALVES - 7TH PLACE - 69 attendance
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/rptq-top-8-decklists/oath-of-the-gatewatch-rptq-madrid-2015-11-07 - AURELIANO BERNARDO - 1ST PLACE - 113 attendance
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/rptq-top-8-decklists/oath-of-the-gatewatch-rptq-stockholm-2015-11-07 - TORE JOHAN SØRUM - 1ST PLACE, MATEUSZ LISSOWSKI - 2ND PLACE - 50 attendance
Solid lists as well, nothing awkward.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
The merfolk assassin seems a little narrow in the sideboard for the last two lists. I guess they were expecting a ton of Merfolk? But even then it doesn't kill a lord unless they have a second one.