Firstly, MoW is 3U. Secondly, we can make an exception for playing an expensive creature like Master of Waves because it drastically improves our board in an immediate, explosive fashion, and even outside the tokens it makes it's a decent threat itself. Thirdly, we actually don't run "a bunch" of 3CMC creatures, nor can we afford to. Merrow Reejerey (and sometimes Kira, Great Glass-Spinner) is the exception because once again, it improves our board (what with being a lord), and its second ability allows us to make very big, very explosive plays. Even then, it was relegated to two-or-three-of in most lists until Harbinger of the Tides made the synergy too good to pass up.
Master of Waves is awesome, he has synergy with mutavault and all the lords (being a merfolk) and he creates a ton of 2/1 creatures which either win us the game or secure attrition long enough to cast Spreading Seas and attack for lethal unblocked. Probably a lot more to say about him too, I'm no expert. I would never argue against MoW. He costs 4 mana but its of course worth it.
Cold-Eyed Selkiecosts 1UU therefore adding two to your blue devotion, compared to Merrow Reejery or Wake Thrasher with only one devotion. Not really a big deal just a small point I was making. Selkie is not a great merfolk I'd probably just want to try out 2 in the deck to be able to draw a bunch of cards midgame and ramp up quick. Of all the merfolk I have researched he seems to have the most potential. Top decking is probably not really even an issue .. Merfolk just somehow compete in long games I don't really understand how it all works but I've held out for crazy long times while top decking with half or less mana than my opponent. The only games I have lost so far are against burn/elves where they just outrace me, even then its often close and a lot of time it's 1-2. I'ts especially fun when I get one land and a vial and then no more lands for several draws but somehow I still win.
I dont really think there's anything major to improve this deck. Harbinger is so awesome and I have been using him constantly. Sometimes I pull Tidebinder out of the SB, and its somewhat useful but Harbinger is just so great. Bounce a creature tapped by reejery, bounce an attacking creature (through vial or if you have 4 mana), bounce a creature that attacked before your turn. I had someone remand my lord and man was it annoying. It gave me a feel for how annoying it is to play against this deck. I have been playing 4 snag 4 Harbinger and that delay causes so much havoc on opponents. Snag of course is a really cool way to pull up your own creatures before they get removed as well, and harbinger is a 2/2 body for lords to boost up - even in matches against few creatures they still maintain a lot of value and never feel dead. Unfortunately I haven't quite gotten the hang of how to outrace other fast decks. One thing I'm learning is that you HAVE to mulligan if you don't have two mana or at least a mana and a vial, way to risky to get stuck with one mana.
In terms of siding in Relic of Progenitus - not sure I haven't done that yet. So far any deck that plays of their graveyard hasn't been able to keep up with me anyway.
It looks like coralhelm commander has fallen completely out of favour recently.
Is he too slow in the meta as 1 or 2 off atm?
Flying is a good ability for midgame (spirit tokens, affinity flyers, blinkmoths etc.) and he can morph into another lord with a big body as a finisher late game.
I found that on turn 5+ I usually sit with unused mana very often and he could act as an efficient mana sink...
I am playing GW D&T at a local PPTQ this weekend and the meta there has a ton of fish. What cards in Green and White give Merfolk the hardest time? Choke? I know you guys play a ton of lands that aren't islands and you have vial so that doesn't seem great. Worship? Seems awesome vs. Merfolk but may be too narrow (Good vs. Zoo, Affinity and Burn?... Sort of?)
Don't name Elvish Archdruid or Nettle Sentinel with Pithing Needle either. Archdruid has a static ability and a mana ability, so it's impervious to Needle. Sentinel has a triggered ability, so Needle is useless there too. The only reasonable target is Ezuri.
I played against Elves last night. Pithing Needle on Ezuri, Renegade Leader seems right. I had the Pithing Needle in hand but decided to tap out and play two Master of Waves (one off of Aether Vial) and load up the board instead of playing Pithing Needle and naming Ezuri that turn. I lost that game on that turn. But fortunately I won the match. In my notes it clearly says - Pithing Needle Azuri asap!
Not sure your creature suite, but Beast Within to turn off Spreading Seas for Islandwalk if you think you can hold a torch in combat. Also go easy on the Artifact hate against us. Find a lot of players over committing to killing our vial.
So is phantasmal imagine a good idea in the current meta? Im currently maindecking 2 but it could easily be replaced by a 4th reejery and a 3rd harbinger
I like Phantasmal Image in the main. It seems with a lot of deck lists it is falling out of favor, but I find it it usually very relevant. The only time I am not happy to see it is when I have no other creatures that I want to copy. I have had very good results with it. I was planning on not playing with it this week, but couldn't resist keeping it in.
I mentioned in the past week where I recently copied a Wurmcoil Engine that helped me win a Tron match. Last night, I almost had an even better one. My opponent cheated in Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. I can't remember the red card he used to get it from his hand to the battlefield, but it required him to exile Emrakul at the end of his turn. I had two Phantasmals in the main. I had Aether Vial on two untapped. If I had one of those Phantasmals in my hand, I would have been able to vial it in and copy the Emrakul. The result would have been I got to keep my Emrakul copy and he did not. Unfortunately, I didn't have it in hand. It made for great post-game conversation though.
The most disappointing I have had happen to me with it is when my opponent plays an 'enter the battlefield' ability and targets it. Such as when Pestermite enters the field and my opponent chooses Phantasmal Image to tap down. It is instead sacrificed. So it can feel a little fragile sometimes. I am still learning how to play it with some skill. I think with more experience, it can really add a lot of value against a wide range of opponents. I also think it could be a very good card in the mirror match.
One thing I'm learning is that you HAVE to mulligan if you don't have two mana or at least a mana and a vial, way to risky to get stuck with one mana.
I completely agree on this point. I have been making this my habit the last few weeks. I find with two land I can even pull back into it after starting with only five cards, particularly on the draw.
I am playing GW D&T at a local PPTQ this weekend and the meta there has a ton of fish. What cards in Green and White give Merfolk the hardest time? Choke?
I have had opponents tell me they are avoiding using choke against me after I use Spreading Seas on them. Merrow Reejerey gives me a chance to untap them which my opponent can't do. I also run some non-island lands as well. Based on the feedback from opponent's, I am even thinking about running a few Sea's Claim to try out.
Choke is a trap card against merfolk. I also play Jund/Abzan and I would never side in choke against the fish. Many times you can get blown out by Spreading Seas and most fish players have a lot of non-island blue sources. The D&T deck does not have enough removal to hang with the fish; the only hope they have is for Wrath Of God and hope they can reset faster than us.
I do play Sea's Claim over cards like Tectonic Edge which makes choke a death sentence for the deck that plays it against me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
I used it at one time, it was nice having twelve cantrips in the deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
He must have mispoke. Harbinger is a powerful weapon.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
I'll agree that the LSV list is very front-loaded and clunky. Merfolk wants to resolve three+ 2 mana spells more than two 3 mana spells, the lack of interaction in the main isn't that much a of a problem...I wouldn't play it but it isn't uncommon to play aggro pre-board and then become more controlling once you know what you are playing again. His sideboard however does not reflect that, he would be taking out creatures he has excess of to bring in control cards rather than just run them in the main. 4 reej is very clunky, I like 4 Harbingers personally but I still don't know if I would run 3 or 4 in a final list for a large event. Jamming all those creatures doesn't make the deck win any faster, if anything it might slow it down with a bunch of 3 and 4 mana dorks in your hands...
Coralhelm is okay, it is just he requires too much invest and still just dies without impacting much. Him being only 2 mana is his biggest strength over other chioces for cards.
I will probably do a few test games with sea's claim, I've lost to choke and boil only because I have had terrible luck only drawing islands when I only run 9 or 10 of them
Harbinger is not useful in every situation. If your opponent doesn't have creatures for example. In that case so is Tidebinder, not really sure what an alternate would be. I do board out a couple Harbinger when I'm playing a deck with few creatures, but it feels like hes extremely useful for gaining tempo in about 90% of the games I've played so far.
I keep 2 Reejery as well, hate drawing him when I'm at 2 vial 2 mana, but a 10 lord deck is better than an 8 lord deck. I understand the concept of 4 reejery 4 Harbinger though as they work awesome with each other. I see a lot of opponents afraid to attack for the rest of the rounds after I have dropped a Harbinger on them. This fear of attacking we can instill in our opponent is a powerful mind game and probably a big factor pushing the deck to Tier1.
I think that Harbinger took Coralhelms spot. If you could squeeze him in, most are choosing Phantasmal Image instead. He would have a lot of use in games such as stalling out the Insectile Aberration or when you're up against a Hushwing Gryff that got SB in or if you want to turn Swan Song into a nearly-painless one mana counterspell. Hes a bit more aggro since he can utilize the extra mana we're saving with vial to become a 4/4 lord (which often will be a 6/6+ lord) which can put a lot of pressure on our opponent. I think hes sweet, I really want to try him out more, but being a flat 2/2 that has no effect on the board when cast is really limiting him.
Like I said, I'll try to take some notes of the matches to see if I learn anything interesting. I'm sticking with the Siege's for now despite literally everyone advising me not to. They really hurt a lot of decks and they survive wraths to continue protection from being one-for-one'd afterward. I haven't played Modern at this store before so unfortunately I can't tune my sb to the meta, hence why I'm keeping recall in for now. I have really liked having the 3x Image mainboard. Even when he gets blown up the next turn, being able to have lords 5-8 for any give one, or another harbinger, or another master of the waves, I've even one games because it served as more silvergills and gave me the carddraw I needed to hit more gas. There was actually one game against mono-blue tron where I image'd a Platinum angel to survive until I drew snag to bounce his Platinum angel (we were both in the negative.) That last one wasn't so much a reason to run it as it was a cool story. Anyway, wish me luck tonight.
Monastery Siege is a great card, serves a role similar to Kira in our deck. Also has the option of letting us outgrind someone with the looting mode.
Good luck SaintRileyJ, may Thassa bless you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
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Master of Waves is awesome, he has synergy with mutavault and all the lords (being a merfolk) and he creates a ton of 2/1 creatures which either win us the game or secure attrition long enough to cast Spreading Seas and attack for lethal unblocked. Probably a lot more to say about him too, I'm no expert. I would never argue against MoW. He costs 4 mana but its of course worth it.
Cold-Eyed Selkie costs 1UU therefore adding two to your blue devotion, compared to Merrow Reejery or Wake Thrasher with only one devotion. Not really a big deal just a small point I was making. Selkie is not a great merfolk I'd probably just want to try out 2 in the deck to be able to draw a bunch of cards midgame and ramp up quick. Of all the merfolk I have researched he seems to have the most potential. Top decking is probably not really even an issue .. Merfolk just somehow compete in long games I don't really understand how it all works but I've held out for crazy long times while top decking with half or less mana than my opponent. The only games I have lost so far are against burn/elves where they just outrace me, even then its often close and a lot of time it's 1-2. I'ts especially fun when I get one land and a vial and then no more lands for several draws but somehow I still win.
I dont really think there's anything major to improve this deck. Harbinger is so awesome and I have been using him constantly. Sometimes I pull Tidebinder out of the SB, and its somewhat useful but Harbinger is just so great. Bounce a creature tapped by reejery, bounce an attacking creature (through vial or if you have 4 mana), bounce a creature that attacked before your turn. I had someone remand my lord and man was it annoying. It gave me a feel for how annoying it is to play against this deck. I have been playing 4 snag 4 Harbinger and that delay causes so much havoc on opponents. Snag of course is a really cool way to pull up your own creatures before they get removed as well, and harbinger is a 2/2 body for lords to boost up - even in matches against few creatures they still maintain a lot of value and never feel dead. Unfortunately I haven't quite gotten the hang of how to outrace other fast decks. One thing I'm learning is that you HAVE to mulligan if you don't have two mana or at least a mana and a vial, way to risky to get stuck with one mana.
In terms of siding in Relic of Progenitus - not sure I haven't done that yet. So far any deck that plays of their graveyard hasn't been able to keep up with me anyway.
It looks like coralhelm commander has fallen completely out of favour recently.
Is he too slow in the meta as 1 or 2 off atm?
Flying is a good ability for midgame (spirit tokens, affinity flyers, blinkmoths etc.) and he can morph into another lord with a big body as a finisher late game.
I found that on turn 5+ I usually sit with unused mana very often and he could act as an efficient mana sink...
Thinking of a 26 creature package:
16 core (lords, silvergills, curse catchers)
3 Harbringers
3 Reejereys
2 MoW
2 Commanders
With
3 Tidebinders
1 MoW
in the side.
Is this too greedy?
Thanks
M
But he is ok if you find the space.
I played against Elves last night. Pithing Needle on Ezuri, Renegade Leader seems right. I had the Pithing Needle in hand but decided to tap out and play two Master of Waves (one off of Aether Vial) and load up the board instead of playing Pithing Needle and naming Ezuri that turn. I lost that game on that turn. But fortunately I won the match. In my notes it clearly says - Pithing Needle Azuri asap!
I like Phantasmal Image in the main. It seems with a lot of deck lists it is falling out of favor, but I find it it usually very relevant. The only time I am not happy to see it is when I have no other creatures that I want to copy. I have had very good results with it. I was planning on not playing with it this week, but couldn't resist keeping it in.
I mentioned in the past week where I recently copied a Wurmcoil Engine that helped me win a Tron match. Last night, I almost had an even better one. My opponent cheated in Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. I can't remember the red card he used to get it from his hand to the battlefield, but it required him to exile Emrakul at the end of his turn. I had two Phantasmals in the main. I had Aether Vial on two untapped. If I had one of those Phantasmals in my hand, I would have been able to vial it in and copy the Emrakul. The result would have been I got to keep my Emrakul copy and he did not. Unfortunately, I didn't have it in hand. It made for great post-game conversation though.
The most disappointing I have had happen to me with it is when my opponent plays an 'enter the battlefield' ability and targets it. Such as when Pestermite enters the field and my opponent chooses Phantasmal Image to tap down. It is instead sacrificed. So it can feel a little fragile sometimes. I am still learning how to play it with some skill. I think with more experience, it can really add a lot of value against a wide range of opponents. I also think it could be a very good card in the mirror match.
I completely agree on this point. I have been making this my habit the last few weeks. I find with two land I can even pull back into it after starting with only five cards, particularly on the draw.
I have had opponents tell me they are avoiding using choke against me after I use Spreading Seas on them. Merrow Reejerey gives me a chance to untap them which my opponent can't do. I also run some non-island lands as well. Based on the feedback from opponent's, I am even thinking about running a few Sea's Claim to try out.
I do play Sea's Claim over cards like Tectonic Edge which makes choke a death sentence for the deck that plays it against me.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
You might consider Aquitect's Will also. It cantrips, and triggers Reejerey.
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
are you for real?
U
WUBRGPeopleGRBUW
U Turbo Turns U
UB Fae BU
WBG Aristocrats GBW
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Coralhelm is okay, it is just he requires too much invest and still just dies without impacting much. Him being only 2 mana is his biggest strength over other chioces for cards.
I will probably do a few test games with sea's claim, I've lost to choke and boil only because I have had terrible luck only drawing islands when I only run 9 or 10 of them
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
I keep 2 Reejery as well, hate drawing him when I'm at 2 vial 2 mana, but a 10 lord deck is better than an 8 lord deck. I understand the concept of 4 reejery 4 Harbinger though as they work awesome with each other. I see a lot of opponents afraid to attack for the rest of the rounds after I have dropped a Harbinger on them. This fear of attacking we can instill in our opponent is a powerful mind game and probably a big factor pushing the deck to Tier1.
I think that Harbinger took Coralhelms spot. If you could squeeze him in, most are choosing Phantasmal Image instead. He would have a lot of use in games such as stalling out the Insectile Aberration or when you're up against a Hushwing Gryff that got SB in or if you want to turn Swan Song into a nearly-painless one mana counterspell. Hes a bit more aggro since he can utilize the extra mana we're saving with vial to become a 4/4 lord (which often will be a 6/6+ lord) which can put a lot of pressure on our opponent. I think hes sweet, I really want to try him out more, but being a flat 2/2 that has no effect on the board when cast is really limiting him.
4x Master of the Pearl Trident
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Merrow Reejery
4x Silvergill Adept
2x Harbinger of the Tides
4x Cursecatcher
2x Master of Waves
3x Phantasmal Image
4x Aether Vial
4x Spreading Seas
2x Sea's Claim
2x Vapor Snag
2x Spell Pierce
Land
4x Mutavault
4x Wanderwine Hub
3x Caver of Souls
8x Island
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Hibernation
2x Spell Pierce
2x Dismember
2x Spellskite
2x Monastery Siege
2x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Master of Waves
Like I said, I'll try to take some notes of the matches to see if I learn anything interesting. I'm sticking with the Siege's for now despite literally everyone advising me not to. They really hurt a lot of decks and they survive wraths to continue protection from being one-for-one'd afterward. I haven't played Modern at this store before so unfortunately I can't tune my sb to the meta, hence why I'm keeping recall in for now. I have really liked having the 3x Image mainboard. Even when he gets blown up the next turn, being able to have lords 5-8 for any give one, or another harbinger, or another master of the waves, I've even one games because it served as more silvergills and gave me the carddraw I needed to hit more gas. There was actually one game against mono-blue tron where I image'd a Platinum angel to survive until I drew snag to bounce his Platinum angel (we were both in the negative.) That last one wasn't so much a reason to run it as it was a cool story. Anyway, wish me luck tonight.
Good luck SaintRileyJ, may Thassa bless you.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas