I'm in the same boat. I run 4x Blackcleave Cliffs, 2x Blooming Marsh and 2x Grove of the Burnwillows as my nonbasic, nonfetch and nonshock suite. Also, the Grove helps you live the dream of killing that 1/1 Death's Shadow just by floating a green.
Side note: at my last PPTQ tune up last night, I opted to take out the Archfiends and run a third Beast Within, and a singleton Faerie Macabre mainboard, while adding back Kessig Wolf Run as my 19th land. I think the deck functioned better overall, and I'm really enjoying running singleton 'sideboard cards' main (1x Shriekmaw, 1x Faerie, and 1x Kolaghan's Command). It definitely helps the 8x Leyline plan out of the board.
I suppose I should include Lost Legacy over Slaughter Games just since it can come out when most effective. Good call, I'll jam 2 into the board.
In this current meta, I find that lost legacy is a very powerful card. Titanshift, ad naus, storm, and even the various company combo decks are all popular choices that have "lynchpin" pieces that a single resolved lost legacy can cripple enough to buy ample time to do our thing.
In reality most of what people talk about are changing the 2-8 flex slots.
Discussion over cyclers is like asking someone what their Serum Visions / Sleight of Hand split is, except we run 25 of them. In the end they are all about the same spell. Fulminators are like running mana leak in the same list. Some people cut it, others are horrified at the idea. Beast Within is removal which some people cut for more dig, like in any combo list.
Every once and awhile someone will play with the colors, like in any combo deck.
If you look at most people's lists they vary only about as much as any twin list did.
-Also list get a lot more consistent with every deck right after a big tournament. But the longer you go without the Pros playing the more wild lists tend to get.
there is also sideboard to help remedy problematic matchup.
list differs from player to player but i think that is it, this deck is pretty much solved.
I really like desert cerodon due to its stats; its HUGE! and ends games quickly. He can be the difference between a turn 4 lethal or a turn 5 lethal which can be the deciding factor in who wins that particular game. However I've had situations where I couldn't cycle them due to their strict cycling cost when I was stuck on lands that only produce Take that with a grain of salt considering I generally have bad luck
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard // nRG Aggro
Modern // Burn (main) and Living End (secondary) now Jund.
For fun check out my janky combo primer: Turn 3 Grixis Combo
"Can't beat em' Jund em'!"
I suppose I should include Lost Legacy over Slaughter Games just since it can come out when most effective. Good call, I'll jam 2 into the board.
This got me thinking, I had Slaughter Games because there was a RUG Scapeshift in my meta, but the double black in Lost Legacy does count. I did a quick (and I hope, somehow correct) calculations for the chances of having the right mana for LL and SG in turns 3 and 4 (12 and 13 draws). I also did it for LL in turn 4, just to compare it to turn 4 SG. The charts are in function of the amount of Black mana for Lost Legacy, and for Slaughter games the odds of having a R source and a B source at the same time (quite high for turn 4, if you ask me). As a simplification, I assumed that the deck has the same amount of R and B sources
But I also need to take into account the fact that I need 4 lands to cast Slaughter Games, and only 3 for Lost Legacy (with 19 in the deck). The numbers are:
-3 lands after 12 draws (turn 3 Lost Legacy): 81.40%
-3 lands after 13 draws (turn 4 Lost Legacy): 86.30%
-4 lands after 13 draws (turn 4 Slaughter Games): 65.30%
Changing the charts with those probabilities, I now have to look at a manabase and see the different chances of casting either with the amount of colored lands there. For example, for this list the chances are:
-turn 3 Lost Legacy: 68.29%
-turn 4 Lost Legacy: 75.51%
-turn 4 Slaughter Games: 62.71%
Of course, all of this assuming you actually draw Lost Legacy/Slaughter Games
edit: also, Simian Spirit Guide does modify the numbers, I think it favors Slaughter Games slightly
The manabase is probably the part where we could most easily reach a consensus.
Stock manabase for people playing with blood moon, stock manabase for people playing without.
Probably also one of the areas most worth improving, being able to cycle everything on time and easily makes everything much smoother, lets you draw your other cards, and generally just makes the deck faster.
For the BM manabase this is what I have:
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Shocklands (1 of each)
3 Basics (1 of each)
5 Fastlands/Grove (4 B, 4 R, 2 G)
1 flex slot (Dryad Arbor, Kessig Wolf Run, Gemstone Caverns, or another random land you feel like running)
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
Thank you for running the numbers! I think it might just come down to a gut call whether I got for the potentially faster Lost Legacy vs the uncounterable Slaughter Games. I may lean towards SG because it has such brutal art.
Well the upside of slaughter games is the uncounterable clause but that's not really an issue in modern. Most decks running counterspells aren't combo decks (RUG scapeshift is pretty dated) that require a lynchpin piece taken out. Most are tempo/control based decks that don't exactly suffer from a single surgicalish effect.
The other upside for me was the easier cost, regarding colors. Getting R and B at the same time is easier than BB. If SG were 1RB, it would be better than LL. The downside is obviously the cmc in a low land count deck like Living End, getting the fourth land by turn 4 is not an easy task, even when you cycle. That's why I did the numbers, maybe someone using Lost Legacy couldn't cast it in time because of the double color requirement.
Regarding the manabase, without Blood Moon I would run something like:
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Shocklands
8 Fastlands/Grove (5 B, 7 R, 4 G)
If you want to cut the Mire for some utility land, I would adjust the fastlands/grove accordingly
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
The other upside for me was the easier cost, regarding colors. Getting R and B at the same time is easier than BB. If SG were 1RB, it would be better than LL. The downside is obviously the cmc in a low land count deck like Living End, getting the fourth land by turn 4 is not an easy task, even when you cycle. That's why I did the numbers, maybe someone using Lost Legacy couldn't cast it in time because of the double color requirement.
Regarding the manabase, without Blood Moon I would run something like:
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Shocklands
8 Fastlands/Grove (5 B, 7 R, 4 G)
If you want to cut the Mire for some utility land, I would adjust the fastlands/grove accordingly
I run that exact configuration except with a Kessig Wolf Run instead of Bloodstained Mire... and I do run Blood Moon. But that is where my singleton Pale Recluse and Twisted Abomination come into play.
When you have 3 mana available, you would rather cast a cascade spell? Well yeah, probably.
But that could be said for pretty much any support spell you choose to use. You would rather be casting LE than beast within.
Except that sometimes you dont have a cascade spell, or no target for a cascade spell, or there is something like a thalia in play, or chalice of the void, or open mana for stubborn denial, or graveyard hate, or anything else that can stop you from just playing a cascade spell for profit.
He is open to lots of forms of removal? He is immune to fatal push and abrupt decay, and survives bolt. People dont main deck that much artifact removal, and will not side it in just for him. So the "it dies to removal" argument is even weaker here than it usually is.
Vs death's shadow it is indeed a bit small to compete.
But then again, vs things like burn, or death and taxes, it can come down early enough to be relevant, without being hit by thalia or eidolon, and it blocks well.
Vs control it is a cheap threat.
Death's shadow is really the only deck where it is not good, with K- Command and bigger creatures, but even there it can lead to things like them missing on inquisition, etc.
You can keep playing the card but I don't see the benefits to playing it. In terms of open to remove it was in reference to outside the normal remove that hits Living End creatures. Living End creatures should meet certain criteria like being immune to those spells you listed.
At the end of the day I don't know what you cut for this guy.
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Shocklands (1 of each)
3 Basics (1 of each)
5 Fastlands/Grove (4 B, 4 R, 2 G)
1 flex slot (Dryad Arbor, Kessig Wolf Run, Gemstone Caverns, or another random land you feel like running)
It looked great on paper, but playing with it, it was really painful.
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
Flamed out at the PPTQ (3-3). Lost to TitanShift in round 1 and then Dredge in round 2. Rallied to beat Eldrazi Tron, U/W Flash Monument, and Eldrazi Tron before losing to Thopter Foundry Eggs in round 6. Breakers were horrible because of the early losses so I finished 26 out of 54.
I'm thinking about playing blood moon for the first time for SCG Syracuse. Anyone have experience with blood moon specifically against blue based shadow decks (esper, grixis)? Is it overkill to have blood moon, white leyline, and ricochet traps or is the blood moon something to side out for post board games?
Also what is a decent starting manabase to accommodate blood moon?
I'm in the same boat. I run 4x Blackcleave Cliffs, 2x Blooming Marsh and 2x Grove of the Burnwillows as my nonbasic, nonfetch and nonshock suite. Also, the Grove helps you live the dream of killing that 1/1 Death's Shadow just by floating a green.
Side note: at my last PPTQ tune up last night, I opted to take out the Archfiends and run a third Beast Within, and a singleton Faerie Macabre mainboard, while adding back Kessig Wolf Run as my 19th land. I think the deck functioned better overall, and I'm really enjoying running singleton 'sideboard cards' main (1x Shriekmaw, 1x Faerie, and 1x Kolaghan's Command). It definitely helps the 8x Leyline plan out of the board.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
In this current meta, I find that lost legacy is a very powerful card. Titanshift, ad naus, storm, and even the various company combo decks are all popular choices that have "lynchpin" pieces that a single resolved lost legacy can cripple enough to buy ample time to do our thing.
Why is our list one of the few that varies so greatly?
Burn, GDS, eTron, Affinity - all have a core 50-56 cards that never really change.
Why isn't our deck tuned that much? It's practically the oldest deck in the format!
@Robo_Memer on Twitter, Twitch, Reddit, and YouTube
Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
Discussion over cyclers is like asking someone what their Serum Visions / Sleight of Hand split is, except we run 25 of them. In the end they are all about the same spell.
Fulminators are like running mana leak in the same list. Some people cut it, others are horrified at the idea.
Beast Within is removal which some people cut for more dig, like in any combo list.
Every once and awhile someone will play with the colors, like in any combo deck.
If you look at most people's lists they vary only about as much as any twin list did.
-Also list get a lot more consistent with every deck right after a big tournament. But the longer you go without the Pros playing the more wild lists tend to get.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
3 living end
4 violent outburst
4 demonic dread or 3 demonic dread + 1 kari zev's expertise
4 fulminator mage (this has become one of our signature card)
16-18 cyclers (4 street wraith is a must)
18-19 lands (4-5 fetches, 4-8 fastland (blackcleave cliffs, copperline gorge, blooming marsh), shock land (the number depends on how many colors you play))
the rest are flex slots that can be modified according to your metagame.
the usual suspect are:
simian spirit guide
beast within
faerie macabre
blood moon
there is also sideboard to help remedy problematic matchup.
list differs from player to player but i think that is it, this deck is pretty much solved.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
Modern // Burn (main) and Living End (secondary) now Jund.
For fun check out my janky combo primer: Turn 3 Grixis Combo
"Can't beat em' Jund em'!"
This got me thinking, I had Slaughter Games because there was a RUG Scapeshift in my meta, but the double black in Lost Legacy does count. I did a quick (and I hope, somehow correct) calculations for the chances of having the right mana for LL and SG in turns 3 and 4 (12 and 13 draws). I also did it for LL in turn 4, just to compare it to turn 4 SG. The charts are in function of the amount of Black mana for Lost Legacy, and for Slaughter games the odds of having a R source and a B source at the same time (quite high for turn 4, if you ask me). As a simplification, I assumed that the deck has the same amount of R and B sources
But I also need to take into account the fact that I need 4 lands to cast Slaughter Games, and only 3 for Lost Legacy (with 19 in the deck). The numbers are:
-3 lands after 12 draws (turn 3 Lost Legacy): 81.40%
-3 lands after 13 draws (turn 4 Lost Legacy): 86.30%
-4 lands after 13 draws (turn 4 Slaughter Games): 65.30%
Changing the charts with those probabilities, I now have to look at a manabase and see the different chances of casting either with the amount of colored lands there. For example, for this list the chances are:
-turn 3 Lost Legacy: 68.29%
-turn 4 Lost Legacy: 75.51%
-turn 4 Slaughter Games: 62.71%
Of course, all of this assuming you actually draw Lost Legacy/Slaughter Games
edit: also, Simian Spirit Guide does modify the numbers, I think it favors Slaughter Games slightly
For the BM manabase this is what I have:
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Shocklands (1 of each)
3 Basics (1 of each)
5 Fastlands/Grove (4 B, 4 R, 2 G)
1 flex slot (Dryad Arbor, Kessig Wolf Run, Gemstone Caverns, or another random land you feel like running)
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
Regarding the manabase, without Blood Moon I would run something like:
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Shocklands
8 Fastlands/Grove (5 B, 7 R, 4 G)
If you want to cut the Mire for some utility land, I would adjust the fastlands/grove accordingly
I run that exact configuration except with a Kessig Wolf Run instead of Bloodstained Mire... and I do run Blood Moon. But that is where my singleton Pale Recluse and Twisted Abomination come into play.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
You never know if enemy counter spell decks is packing up Spell Pierce or Negate, so it is a good insure.
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
@Robo_Memer on Twitter, Twitch, Reddit, and YouTube
Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
You can keep playing the card but I don't see the benefits to playing it. In terms of open to remove it was in reference to outside the normal remove that hits Living End creatures. Living End creatures should meet certain criteria like being immune to those spells you listed.
At the end of the day I don't know what you cut for this guy.
Keep in mind that is was for Blood Moon in the maindeck
@Robo_Memer on Twitter, Twitch, Reddit, and YouTube
Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
Back to the drawing board...
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
Also what is a decent starting manabase to accommodate blood moon?