Ok so I read all of the primer and bought most of the core of the deck except fulminator mages, kind of hoping modern masters 2 makes them affordable. I have a pretty good understanding of the deck except the random cycling cards. Would like to hear people's opinions on Jungle Weaver vs. Twisted Abomination vs. Pale Recluse. It seems like I would want more creatures that can punch through Siege Rhino and Tasigur since they seem to be on the rise. How relevant is the swanpcycling and regenerate on the abomination?
I've read about a dozen or so pages of the most recent posts. I was wondering if people still play Simian Spirit Guide, like how relevant is this card? And how clunky/useful is Avalanche Riders? Is it reasonable to just play 4 and try to learn the deck while I wait for modern masters? And if I am running a playset does SSG make riders a lot better?
How necessary is having white dual lands in the deck? I'm going to be borrowing most of the lands and if white dual lands aren't extremely necessary I'd like to forego them.
Ok so I read all of the primer and bought most of the core of the deck except fulminator mages, kind of hoping modern masters 2 makes them affordable. I have a pretty good understanding of the deck except the random cycling cards. Would like to hear people's opinions on Jungle Weaver vs. Twisted Abomination vs. Pale Recluse. It seems like I would want more creatures that can punch through Siege Rhino and Tasigur since they seem to be on the rise. How relevant is the swanpcycling and regenerate on the abomination?
I've read about a dozen or so pages of the most recent posts. I was wondering if people still play Simian Spirit Guide, like how relevant is this card? And how clunky/useful is Avalanche Riders? Is it reasonable to just play 4 and try to learn the deck while I wait for modern masters? And if I am running a playset does SSG make riders a lot better?
How necessary is having white dual lands in the deck? I'm going to be borrowing most of the lands and if white dual lands aren't extremely necessary I'd like to forego them.
In order asked:
1. I personally run 2 jungle weaver and 4 pale recluse. I haven't yet found tasigur to be a problem, but if it is a big problem in your area A-bomb might be better. It's really just landcycling that's relevant, you can structure your duals so it works, and regen is crucial. Otherwise he dies to bolt.
2. I play a 2/2 split for simian between main and sideboard. Personally, I like that, simian gives you faster mana in matchups where that can be crucial (counterspell decks, tron, combo).
3. White duals are mostly necessary if you run the full four recluse. If you're more on A-bomb and big weaves, you don't really need it.
Ok so I read all of the primer and bought most of the core of the deck except fulminator mages, kind of hoping modern masters 2 makes them affordable. I have a pretty good understanding of the deck except the random cycling cards. Would like to hear people's opinions on Jungle Weaver vs. Twisted Abomination vs. Pale Recluse. It seems like I would want more creatures that can punch through Siege Rhino and Tasigur since they seem to be on the rise. How relevant is the swanpcycling and regenerate on the abomination?
I've read about a dozen or so pages of the most recent posts. I was wondering if people still play Simian Spirit Guide, like how relevant is this card? And how clunky/useful is Avalanche Riders? Is it reasonable to just play 4 and try to learn the deck while I wait for modern masters? And if I am running a playset does SSG make riders a lot better?
How necessary is having white dual lands in the deck? I'm going to be borrowing most of the lands and if white dual lands aren't extremely necessary I'd like to forego them.
You need 4 fulminator mages In your main to compete.
Twisted abomination is great vs the mirror or removal/sweeper heavy decks, run 1.
SSG is a necessity vs burn, affinity, aggro, infect. It gets sided out a lot IMO.
I cut pale recluse in favor of the splinter twin package. I would never go back. He was a filler card in my eyes anyway. Jungle Weaver is so good, so is drawing cards.
I play tested vs u tron tonight and won both matches. He didn't know whether to counter deceiver, fulminator or living end. Won another game splinter twin enchanting a fulminator mage.
Yup, Played Living End with Domri.. so bad... The only match I won was with Tasigur, however I don't think I will keep him in just yet.
I suffered with Finks because NONE of the burn players showed up at FNM - Brindle Boar relegated to the sideboard and Simian Spirit Guide back into main.
I will be going back to the stock standard Land Destruction plan from now on, but the Fulminators will need to take a back seat for Riders for now.
I was able to get some licks in against Esper Delve and can confirm that Tasigur, the Golden Fang is not a problem for us. He blocks Deadshot Minotaur and Monstrous Carabid well enough, but can't take down any of the spiders. Street Wraith is fantastic in that matchup, as well. Just keep your usual game plan against countermagic and it's not a difficult matchup in the slightest.
Amulet Bloom, on the other hand... I played against that too, and got absolutely crushed. Hive Mind is the ultimate Living End hoser.
Pale Recluse is consistently excellent. Being able to cycle for two different land types really opens up its ability to grab exactly the colors you need. In the event your list has 3+ Recluses, I recommend the inclusion of one W/x shockland.
Twisted Abomination isn't really as vulnerable as people are making it out to be. As long as you treat it as a 7-drop when hardcasting it, you're pretty much in the clear. Swampcycling is marginally worse than the forest/plainscycling on the Recluse, but it's still good enough to get Blood Crypt and Overgrown Tomb (and Godless Shrine, if you have a white splash). The only thing you really open yourself up to with A-Bomb is Lightning Bolt, so if your meta doesn't have many Bolts flying around, you'll appreciate the extra point of power.
Jungle Weaver is in kind of a weird spot, at least for me. I like starting a couple, but they're typically the first things I cut when sideboarding. Four landcyclers has been perfect for me (full set of Recluses), so having extra cantrips in my cycler base has been welcome. They love to eat Path to Exile, though.
The addition of splinter twin made me come back and give this deck a second look. I remember the ridiculous power of Twin-Blade when it was in standard ... having two uniquely powerful angles of attack has always been excellent in my experience. It is part of why TarmoTwin was so good ... deal with my goyfs? No problem got splinter twin. Putting the combo in this deck makes it more ... flexibly proactive? Basically, I'd rather just have cards that win me the game in a vaccum than try and answer specific threats my opponent might have (maindeck shriekmaws, macabres, etc). While dropping beast within will decrease the amount of time you can LD, I feel like just winning is an acceptable tradeoff.
I'll report back in after I try this monster in a tournament tonight. Going to run this in a local gamestore's SCG event. Usually 16+ players with representation from all the major tier 1 archetypes.
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Standard : BR Zombies Modern :
- Playing : Burn | Living End | Bant Eldrazi
- In Queue : ???
- Building : Death's Shadow |
- Sidelined : RUG Scapeshift | Lantern Control | GR Tron | Ad Nauseam | UWR Control | Dredge | Eldrazi Tron | UB Whir Tezzerator
TWoo picking up on living twin with a decklist on facebook. He's using kiki and resto angel. RA is actually real good even if you don't twin it, blinking avalanche riders, shriekmaw, deadshot, etc.
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I mean I guess it will work. But the game plan of cranking out a t2 fulminator mage (twoo is playing 2) or tapping something down with exarch to buy tempo or stave off counters/aggro seems much better. I'm assuming he'll be streaming his version asap?
TWoo picking up on living twin with a decklist on facebook. He's using kiki and resto angel. RA is actually real good even if you don't twin it, blinking avalanche riders, shriekmaw, deadshot, etc.
I will never understand Trav's fixation with Restoration Angel. And Twinning a Resto doesn't win the game anyway (though you can Kiki it).
He's not using twin, but kiki. So Kiki/resto is the combo just like it would be in the RWU builds. I think he likes resto angel because it recreates ETB effects, so if you have something like shriekmaw in play you can kill again. Same for avalanche riders. His comments indicate a plan to discard both angel and kiki then cascade them both back out. In that regard this build would have 4 potential lines of play. Classic LE, cascade to kiki/resto, hard cast kiki/resto, hardcast fat dudes.
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I think you're right about that. I'm not sure it makes his insight/ideas any less valuable. At least as much as one values it already.
restoration angel in living end makes me relive memories of last year..... or was that 2 years ago? I don't think Woo offers much innovation for following. But he is still a recognizable name, if he picks up "Living Twin" and its concept i'm sure others will take notice. Take that for what it is. my concern that has me yelling at comp screen at Woo is, "your blowing the lid on all the top secret Living end tech!" (kidding)".
fundamentally I don't see restoration angel as being effecient for the combo because it doesn't bring that tempo ability to the table like deceiver exarch/pestermite does. Which as I explained in my thoughts in earlier posts was the underlying strength of the splinter twin splash into the deck.
-Woo's argument for Angel back in the day was it was a solid attacker and ETB trigger for using Hard casting as the sole back up plan for "reguluar" living end.
- Plus woo doing it with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, obviously leaves the combo open to lightning bolt
What's the point in running a basic mountain? If they have blood moon it's not like you're going to be fetching mountains right?
it can go both ways, you have blood moon or they have blood moon!
my opinion is basic forest and swamp and you should be solid, no matter who brings the blood moon. Just fetch accordingly to play through or around it, or land it. Furthermore in my opinion that goes along with this, verdant catacombs is the ideal fetch for playing with blood moon as well.
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I read the primer, but was wondering if anyone had any tips/tricks/improvements before I go to my first modern tournament. I'm not sure what to sideboard out in the various match-ups, but I know my sideboard will consist of Ricochet Trap, Ingot Chewer, Damping Matrix, and something for burn.
What's the generally accepted number of fetches this deck needs? 4 Verdant Catacombs is a given. Do we need more? I'm thinking maybe 2 more Wooded Foothills or Bloodstained Mires, but 4 feels kinda overkill. I mean, the life loss from them and shocklands feels like it could be a problem, especially in matches vs aggro or burn. As the primer said, to make the deck work, we only need a few mana sources, and having 8 fetches feels like a bit much. Of course, having extras could simply mean we have a better chance of pulling them early on when needed, but there's the danger of getting them later on when we don't and getting flooded.
Against burn, I run a combination of Brindle Boar and Gnaw to the Bone in sideboard, and would side out street wraith. I haven't tested this solution, but I think it will work. Burn is most vulnerable when it has run out of gas and would have a hard time winning the game when it needs to topdeck a burn spell or two to win.
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Modern: | C Affinity | RWG Burn |
EDH: | UBG Tasigur / Damia V-Wealth | WU Brago, Flicker and Value | WB Teysa's Orzhov Aristocrats | RG Omnath, Landfall of Rage | RC Daretti |
I read the primer, but was wondering if anyone had any tips/tricks/improvements before I go to my first modern tournament. I'm not sure what to sideboard out in the various match-ups, but I know my sideboard will consist of Ricochet Trap, Ingot Chewer, Damping Matrix, and something for burn.
Jungle Weaver is usually the first to go when cutting for sideboard cards. Obviously Fulminator comes out against decks with a mostly-basic manabase. You can usually shave a Beast Within if you're still looking for space, as well.
What's the generally accepted number of fetches this deck needs? 4 Verdant Catacombs is a given. Do we need more? I'm thinking maybe 2 more Wooded Foothills or Bloodstained Mires, but 4 feels kinda overkill. I mean, the life loss from them and shocklands feels like it could be a problem, especially in matches vs aggro or burn. As the primer said, to make the deck work, we only need a few mana sources, and having 8 fetches feels like a bit much. Of course, having extras could simply mean we have a better chance of pulling them early on when needed, but there's the danger of getting them later on when we don't and getting flooded.
Four fetches has always felt like a good number. We're one of those odd decks that actually appreciates the fastlands (Blackcleave Cliffs, Copperline Gorge, so the need for extra shocks (and by extension, fetches) is diminished.
I've read about a dozen or so pages of the most recent posts. I was wondering if people still play Simian Spirit Guide, like how relevant is this card? And how clunky/useful is Avalanche Riders? Is it reasonable to just play 4 and try to learn the deck while I wait for modern masters? And if I am running a playset does SSG make riders a lot better?
How necessary is having white dual lands in the deck? I'm going to be borrowing most of the lands and if white dual lands aren't extremely necessary I'd like to forego them.
In order asked:
1. I personally run 2 jungle weaver and 4 pale recluse. I haven't yet found tasigur to be a problem, but if it is a big problem in your area A-bomb might be better. It's really just landcycling that's relevant, you can structure your duals so it works, and regen is crucial. Otherwise he dies to bolt.
2. I play a 2/2 split for simian between main and sideboard. Personally, I like that, simian gives you faster mana in matchups where that can be crucial (counterspell decks, tron, combo).
3. White duals are mostly necessary if you run the full four recluse. If you're more on A-bomb and big weaves, you don't really need it.
You need 4 fulminator mages In your main to compete.
Twisted abomination is great vs the mirror or removal/sweeper heavy decks, run 1.
SSG is a necessity vs burn, affinity, aggro, infect. It gets sided out a lot IMO.
I cut pale recluse in favor of the splinter twin package. I would never go back. He was a filler card in my eyes anyway. Jungle Weaver is so good, so is drawing cards.
I play tested vs u tron tonight and won both matches. He didn't know whether to counter deceiver, fulminator or living end. Won another game splinter twin enchanting a fulminator mage.
I suffered with Finks because NONE of the burn players showed up at FNM - Brindle Boar relegated to the sideboard and Simian Spirit Guide back into main.
I will be going back to the stock standard Land Destruction plan from now on, but the Fulminators will need to take a back seat for Riders for now.
Here is what I'll be running next.
Lands:
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Street Wraith
1 Twisted Abomination
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Avalanche Riders
3 Jungle Weaver
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Monstrous Carabid
Non-creature Spells:
3 Living End
4 Beast Within
3 Demonic Dread
4 Violent Outburst
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Brindle Boar
1 Dismember
4 Ingot Chewer
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Ricochet Trap
BUT I'd really love to get on the Splinter Twin bandwagon myself. Seems cool!
Amulet Bloom, on the other hand... I played against that too, and got absolutely crushed. Hive Mind is the ultimate Living End hoser.
RE: Landcyclers and Jungle Weaver
Pale Recluse is consistently excellent. Being able to cycle for two different land types really opens up its ability to grab exactly the colors you need. In the event your list has 3+ Recluses, I recommend the inclusion of one W/x shockland.
Twisted Abomination isn't really as vulnerable as people are making it out to be. As long as you treat it as a 7-drop when hardcasting it, you're pretty much in the clear. Swampcycling is marginally worse than the forest/plainscycling on the Recluse, but it's still good enough to get Blood Crypt and Overgrown Tomb (and Godless Shrine, if you have a white splash). The only thing you really open yourself up to with A-Bomb is Lightning Bolt, so if your meta doesn't have many Bolts flying around, you'll appreciate the extra point of power.
Jungle Weaver is in kind of a weird spot, at least for me. I like starting a couple, but they're typically the first things I cut when sideboarding. Four landcyclers has been perfect for me (full set of Recluses), so having extra cantrips in my cycler base has been welcome. They love to eat Path to Exile, though.
I'll report back in after I try this monster in a tournament tonight. Going to run this in a local gamestore's SCG event. Usually 16+ players with representation from all the major tier 1 archetypes.
Modern :
- Playing : Burn | Living End | Bant Eldrazi
- In Queue : ???
- Building : Death's Shadow |
- Sidelined : RUG Scapeshift | Lantern Control | GR Tron | Ad Nauseam | UWR Control | Dredge | Eldrazi Tron | UB Whir Tezzerator
EDH : Active Decks
BUGrimgrin Tribal ZombiesBU | WGRUril, the MiststalkerWGR | XKozilek, Butcher of TruthX
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I will never understand Trav's fixation with Restoration Angel. And Twinning a Resto doesn't win the game anyway (though you can Kiki it).
UB Tezzerator
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Path to exile, and can save you life versus burn
restoration angel in living end makes me relive memories of last year..... or was that 2 years ago? I don't think Woo offers much innovation for following. But he is still a recognizable name, if he picks up "Living Twin" and its concept i'm sure others will take notice. Take that for what it is. my concern that has me yelling at comp screen at Woo is, "your blowing the lid on all the top secret Living end tech!" (kidding)".
fundamentally I don't see restoration angel as being effecient for the combo because it doesn't bring that tempo ability to the table like deceiver exarch/pestermite does. Which as I explained in my thoughts in earlier posts was the underlying strength of the splinter twin splash into the deck.
-Woo's argument for Angel back in the day was it was a solid attacker and ETB trigger for using Hard casting as the sole back up plan for "reguluar" living end.
- Plus woo doing it with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, obviously leaves the combo open to lightning bolt
it can go both ways, you have blood moon or they have blood moon!
my opinion is basic forest and swamp and you should be solid, no matter who brings the blood moon. Just fetch accordingly to play through or around it, or land it. Furthermore in my opinion that goes along with this, verdant catacombs is the ideal fetch for playing with blood moon as well.
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Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Godless Shrine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Forest
2 Forbidden Orchard
2 Copperline Gorge
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Demonic Dread
4 Violent Outburst
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Beast Within
4 Street Wraith
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Pale Recluse
4 Jungle Weaver
4 Fulminator Mage
I read the primer, but was wondering if anyone had any tips/tricks/improvements before I go to my first modern tournament. I'm not sure what to sideboard out in the various match-ups, but I know my sideboard will consist of Ricochet Trap, Ingot Chewer, Damping Matrix, and something for burn.
| C Affinity | RWG Burn |
EDH:
| UBG Tasigur / Damia V-Wealth | WU Brago, Flicker and Value | WB Teysa's Orzhov Aristocrats | RG Omnath, Landfall of Rage | RC Daretti |
Jungle Weaver is usually the first to go when cutting for sideboard cards. Obviously Fulminator comes out against decks with a mostly-basic manabase. You can usually shave a Beast Within if you're still looking for space, as well.
And never cut landcyclers.
Four fetches has always felt like a good number. We're one of those odd decks that actually appreciates the fastlands (Blackcleave Cliffs, Copperline Gorge, so the need for extra shocks (and by extension, fetches) is diminished.
I currently run a 3-1 split of Verdant Catacombs and Wooded Foothills. (Hurray for fetchable basic Mountains!)