add a 4th beast within, without land destruction your not going to end up mana denying you opponent from casting threats, but atleast with beast within you gunna be able to knock off what ever they play.
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I have been away from modern for a while now and trying to get my list back together for Pax South. Curious what people are using for land bases now days.
I used to run Mirridon fast lands, Some forbidden orchard to generate targets, And some rainbow lands like gemstone since it was not a bad thing for them to die since they allowed my fast lands to come in untapped on turn 4. I think I had a few catacombs and minimal basics and shocks that were fetchable with the land cyclers, because life loss was pretty relevant when I was playing the list, lots of burn floating around combined with my street wraiths.
Is the format still seeing a lot of mono red decks, and does it make sense to play rainbow lands over fetch bases anymore now that Khans provided all the fetches? That list in the past rarely ever had color issues so I am wondering if it makes sense to bother changing it at all.
If Bloodbraid Elf where to come back, does anyone think it would be worth playing?
Some people tried it out while it was still legal, and the answer is "not really." It introduces inconsistency to your cascades, which is extremely hurtful to the deck's game plan; when I cast a spell with cascade, I want to be 100% certain that it will hit Living End.
even free fulminator, free cascade into a cascade, free beast within, free SSG? why is this all that bad? its not like we have to cast the cascaded spell we flip into? if anything it looks like it dings into useful stuff in our deck.
When I cascade I want to know I am cascading into Living End. Sometimes I need that 3 mana wrath of good and I want to know I am getting it and not a 2/2 bear.
Hey, so I've been thinking of swapping out Fearie Macabre for Bojuka Bog, since Bog is uncounterable, helps control Delve, is uncounterable, and doesn't get shot out of the air by Deadshot Minotaur.
Anyone tried this out?
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Hey, so I've been thinking of swapping out Fearie Macabre for Bojuka Bog, since Bog is uncounterable, helps control Delve, is uncounterable, and doesn't get shot out of the air by Deadshot Minotaur.
Anyone tried this out?
If you think you can live with your land coming into play tapped, then go for it.
Hey, so I've been thinking of swapping out Fearie Macabre for Bojuka Bog, since Bog is uncounterable, helps control Delve, is uncounterable, and doesn't get shot out of the air by Deadshot Minotaur.
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Hey, so I've been thinking of swapping out Fearie Macabre for Bojuka Bog, since Bog is uncounterable, helps control Delve, is uncounterable, and doesn't get shot out of the air by Deadshot Minotaur.
Deadshot Minotaur is the best one-mana cycler we have. You'd trade that for a Boltable body that's also hit by artifact removal? (I consider Architects' ability to be on par with Deadshot's).
I love how we're suddenly talking about the "shoot-your-own faerie" situation as though it's the reason Living End loses all of its games. Just run Jund Charm if it bugs you that much. No one will make fun of you, I promise.
The issue I see with bog is the sorcery speed. I very often need to knock those things out of the yard NOW and waiting for your next main phase can be lethal. Too much gifts ungiven running around for me to feel safe with bog.
The issue I see with bog is the sorcery speed. I very often need to knock those things out of the yard NOW and waiting for your next main phase can be lethal. Too much gifts ungiven running around for me to feel safe with bog.
Very good point. I failed to mention it because I had a brain fart and couldn't come up with examples outside of Snapcaster Mage.
I love how we're suddenly talking about the "shoot-your-own faerie" situation as though it's the reason Living End loses all of its games. Just run Jund Charm if it bugs you that much. No one will make fun of you, I promise.
1 i completely forgot all about jund charm, 2 I think flyers such as faerie are really strong right now against pod and other green black decks.
I normally rail against architects of will however with the popularity of siege rhino I was changing my view some what to adjust with the times, creature size is an issue, architects might be bolts size, deadshot was not more than a dead man walking even at 3/4 size, but architects can atleast spot a rhino on the horizon and seal it down the deck for a 1 or 2 turns turns. post LE tarmogoyf might also be 4/x so given the cheap efficientcy of those two creatures and how every deck is running them, I'm leaning towards flying being a solution to the problem.
my problem with siege rhino is its also a turn 4 creature and we are a turn 3 deck. popping LE on turn 3 has always been our most valuable move to start the beat down, siege rhino match ups buy our opponent time and a solid blocker against most of our creatures if they land it on turn 4. this use to be particularly POD who could chain into multiple rhinos giving them strong defensive line to our creatures. Now that POD is banned this late game situation of our opponents pulling there asses out of the fire that living end set them on, will never happen unless they top deck rhino and other creatures like a miracle consecutively.
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[quote from="WyvernSlayer »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/220258-living-end?comment=2607"]I normally rail against architects of will however with the popularity of siege rhino I was changing my view some what to adjust with the times, creature size is an issue, architects might be bolts size, deadshot was not more than a dead man walking even at 3/4 size, but architects can atleast spot a rhino on the horizon and seal it down the deck for a 1 or 2 turns turns.
And Deadshot Minotaur can kill Vendilion Clique, Pestermite, Vault Skirge, and Ornithopter. Both cards' triggered abilities are useful in different situations. That's why I called that comparison a wash and focused on the bodies. Show of hands, who would rather have a 3/3 artifact instead of a 3/4 nonartifact?
my problem with siege rhino is its also a turn 4 creature and we are a turn 3 deck. popping LE on turn 3 has always been our most valuable move to start the beat down.
We are most certainly NOT a turn 3 deck. Unless you're facing lethal on that turn, it is almost always a bad play to run out the cascade spell as soon as you hit three lands. If we were a turn three deck we wouldn't be wasting time with Fulminator Mage/Avalanche Riders - the deck would be packed to the gills with 0-1 mana cyclers instead of LD spells. The deck plays more like a late-game control deck with a combo finish.
[quote from="WyvernSlayer »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/220258-living-end?comment=2607"]I normally rail against architects of will however with the popularity of siege rhino I was changing my view some what to adjust with the times, creature size is an issue, architects might be bolts size, deadshot was not more than a dead man walking even at 3/4 size, but architects can atleast spot a rhino on the horizon and seal it down the deck for a 1 or 2 turns turns.
1. And Deadshot Minotaur can kill Vendilion Clique, Pestermite, Vault Skirge, and Ornithopter. Both cards' triggered abilities are useful in different situations. That's why I called that comparison a wash and focused on the bodies. Show of hands, who would rather have a 3/3 artifact instead of a 3/4 nonartifact?
my problem with siege rhino is its also a turn 4 creature and we are a turn 3 deck. popping LE on turn 3 has always been our most valuable move to start the beat down.
2. We are most certainly NOT a turn 3 deck. Unless you're facing lethal on that turn, it is almost always a bad play to run out the cascade spell as soon as you hit three lands. If we were a turn three deck we wouldn't be wasting time with Fulminator Mage/Avalanche Riders - the deck would be packed to the gills with 0-1 mana cyclers instead of LD spells. The deck plays more like a late-game control deck with a combo finish.
siege rhino match ups buy our opponent time and a solid blocker against most of our creatures if they land it on turn 4.
3. Call me crazy, but I am substantially less fearful of Siege Rhino if there's no Pod around to tutor them up.
</blockquote>
1. non of those creatures are very relevant for deadshot's ability unless the game has turned into a long one and your hard casting deadshot. most of them should die and say dead to Living end the first time it resolved. in theory they would die as chump blockers to carabid and the other cyclers, only 1 from the list you made that would trade with architects is vendilion clique for its 3/1. one would hope Faerie macabre or any other graveyard would keep such creatures from coming back from the graveyard by the time you play a 2nd LE, if necessary.
2. depends on the match up.
3. i was kind of pointing out the same thing at the bottom of my original post.
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We're definitely not a turn three deck against pod. We can wait to pull the trigger against these midrange decks that don't punish us for waiting by just spamming damage.
Well I cant wait to play against GGT with turn one Leyline. Jund/Junk will rise up again, how is that match up for us? I played against it once before they dropped off from popularity. It wasn't much of a game when I dropped Blood Moon on them, and Beast Within Lily.
If you have Fulminators, Jund is generally a pretty easy matchup once you cut them off of at least one color (green hurts them the most). You also get to fire off Living End without having to worry about counter-magic, and we're pretty solid against hand disruption with all the cycling.
Well I cant wait to play against GGT with turn one Leyline. Jund/Junk will rise up again, how is that match up for us? I played against it once before they dropped off from popularity. It wasn't much of a game when I dropped Blood Moon on them, and Beast Within Lily.
From my experience playing pod, probably not all that tough. Only hard part will be anafenza, but as long as you can cycle a significant yard before she hits she can't really stop you from winning.
Well I cant wait to play against GGT with turn one Leyline. Jund/Junk will rise up again, how is that match up for us? I played against it once before they dropped off from popularity. It wasn't much of a game when I dropped Blood Moon on them, and Beast Within Lily.
From my experience playing pod, probably not all that tough. Only hard part will be anafenza, but as long as you can cycle a significant yard before she hits she can't really stop you from winning.
Do Junk decks even play Anafenza? I can see how she'd be pretty good against us, but I haven't had to stare one down yet outside of Standard. (Pardon my ignorance - my local meta is all over the place)
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Street Wraith
4 Pale Recluse
3 Jungle Weaver
2 Architects of Will
1 Shriekmaw
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Twisted Abomination
4 Violent Outburst
4 Demonic Dread
3 Beast Within
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Raging Ravine
So a pretty stock list, minus my lack of Fulminators. Eventually my fetchland mix will be a playset of Verdant Catacombs and as such I'll change my Sacred Foundry back to a Godless Shrine. Sideboard is pretty standard- Anger of the Gods, Gnaw to the Bone, Ingot Chewer, Sin Collector, fourth LE, Leyline of the Void.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
add a 4th beast within, without land destruction your not going to end up mana denying you opponent from casting threats, but atleast with beast within you gunna be able to knock off what ever they play.
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I used to run Mirridon fast lands, Some forbidden orchard to generate targets, And some rainbow lands like gemstone since it was not a bad thing for them to die since they allowed my fast lands to come in untapped on turn 4. I think I had a few catacombs and minimal basics and shocks that were fetchable with the land cyclers, because life loss was pretty relevant when I was playing the list, lots of burn floating around combined with my street wraiths.
Is the format still seeing a lot of mono red decks, and does it make sense to play rainbow lands over fetch bases anymore now that Khans provided all the fetches? That list in the past rarely ever had color issues so I am wondering if it makes sense to bother changing it at all.
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When I cascade I want to know I am cascading into Living End. Sometimes I need that 3 mana wrath of good and I want to know I am getting it and not a 2/2 bear.
Anyone tried this out?
If you think you can live with your land coming into play tapped, then go for it.
this is totally going in another direction, but you could drop deadshot minotaur for full set of architects of will and/or faerie macabre as needed to fill the slots minotaur would leave.
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Deadshot Minotaur is the best one-mana cycler we have. You'd trade that for a Boltable body that's also hit by artifact removal? (I consider Architects' ability to be on par with Deadshot's).
I love how we're suddenly talking about the "shoot-your-own faerie" situation as though it's the reason Living End loses all of its games. Just run Jund Charm if it bugs you that much. No one will make fun of you, I promise.
Very good point. I failed to mention it because I had a brain fart and couldn't come up with examples outside of Snapcaster Mage.
1 i completely forgot all about jund charm, 2 I think flyers such as faerie are really strong right now against pod and other green black decks.
I normally rail against architects of will however with the popularity of siege rhino I was changing my view some what to adjust with the times, creature size is an issue, architects might be bolts size, deadshot was not more than a dead man walking even at 3/4 size, but architects can atleast spot a rhino on the horizon and seal it down the deck for a 1 or 2 turns turns. post LE tarmogoyf might also be 4/x so given the cheap efficientcy of those two creatures and how every deck is running them, I'm leaning towards flying being a solution to the problem.
my problem with siege rhino is its also a turn 4 creature and we are a turn 3 deck. popping LE on turn 3 has always been our most valuable move to start the beat down, siege rhino match ups buy our opponent time and a solid blocker against most of our creatures if they land it on turn 4. this use to be particularly POD who could chain into multiple rhinos giving them strong defensive line to our creatures. Now that POD is banned this late game situation of our opponents pulling there asses out of the fire that living end set them on, will never happen unless they top deck rhino and other creatures like a miracle consecutively.
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And Deadshot Minotaur can kill Vendilion Clique, Pestermite, Vault Skirge, and Ornithopter. Both cards' triggered abilities are useful in different situations. That's why I called that comparison a wash and focused on the bodies. Show of hands, who would rather have a 3/3 artifact instead of a 3/4 nonartifact?
We are most certainly NOT a turn 3 deck. Unless you're facing lethal on that turn, it is almost always a bad play to run out the cascade spell as soon as you hit three lands. If we were a turn three deck we wouldn't be wasting time with Fulminator Mage/Avalanche Riders - the deck would be packed to the gills with 0-1 mana cyclers instead of LD spells. The deck plays more like a late-game control deck with a combo finish.
Call me crazy, but I am substantially less fearful of Siege Rhino if there's no Pod around to tutor them up.
1. non of those creatures are very relevant for deadshot's ability unless the game has turned into a long one and your hard casting deadshot. most of them should die and say dead to Living end the first time it resolved. in theory they would die as chump blockers to carabid and the other cyclers, only 1 from the list you made that would trade with architects is vendilion clique for its 3/1. one would hope Faerie macabre or any other graveyard would keep such creatures from coming back from the graveyard by the time you play a 2nd LE, if necessary.
2. depends on the match up.
3. i was kind of pointing out the same thing at the bottom of my original post.
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From my experience playing pod, probably not all that tough. Only hard part will be anafenza, but as long as you can cycle a significant yard before she hits she can't really stop you from winning.
Do Junk decks even play Anafenza? I can see how she'd be pretty good against us, but I haven't had to stare one down yet outside of Standard. (Pardon my ignorance - my local meta is all over the place)