MD AV is worth, maybe, only in non-Harbinger builds.
Playing the deck i always hated to draw it after turn 2 and in many mulling decisions the hand would have been a keep with serum instead AV.
This deck simply doesn't need pure CA, snapcasters and electrolyze are simply enough.
Oh and you need to play always 4, because it sucks in every turn apart from the first.
If AV works for you against BGx decks good for you, but i would play it in the SB.
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
On AV vs Serum in Jeskai Harbinger: play both. But don't leave home without 4 copies of AV. The best card in the deck vs BGx, the most played archetype right now. But it's solid vs the vast majority of decks really. Turn 1 Vision usually resolves even vs the most aggressive decks. We run Path, Bolt, Helix, Snare, Remand/Leak. It's not like we're spending our first turns watching our opponent beating us down. We can delay them long enough for AV to resolve and that's usually the point where you win the game. I think up until now I've won more games with AV than with Nahiri.
Currently I'm on 4x AV, 3x Serum.
Would you mind sharing your list?
Are you playing mainboard Geist?
Ive been playing mainboard Geist as an alternative wincon and for added proactivity for the last month or so. Overall I like it - however its def a preference thing and likely not the 'optimal' build - whatever that is. I feel it gives the deck the opportunity to be fast - I always felt helpless against a number of decks (that go under us) prior to playing Geist main. I'm still not sure what to do about combo decks like Ad Nauseum, Living End and Tron - im basically writing them off..
4 Remand isn't something I like, I much prefer 2-2 split with Mana Leak, 3 spell Snare feels like 1 too many. I do not like the complete removal of Lightning Helix which feels like one of if not our best card.
I really like the main deck Anger.
Izzet Charm and Jace Beleren seem out of place.
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My modern Decks: GBRJundGBR URWJeskai NahiriURW My Legacy Deck: URBGrixis DelverURB My EDH Decks: GJarad, Golgari Lich LordB GRhys, The RedeemedW RWArchangel AvacynRW UWDragonlord OjutaiUW
From my experience playing Jeskai Control w/o Nahiri against Nahiri Jeskai, the Jace Beleren does make some sense. Often times, they run out of cards more quickly than me or have some useless cards in hand. Being able to dig deeper seems like something Nahiri Jeskai players would like, which also lines up with having 4 Remand. However, I also balk at completely cutting Lightning Helix and Mana Leak for more Remands and Izzet Charm. This feels like a deck that's all-in on fetching up spaghetti monsters more so than previous builds and that seems like an awful idea to me. On the other hand, I would argue Spell Snare is most likely the best counter magic in Modern right now. I'm even trying to find a way to add a third into my Jeskai deck.
In my opinion that’s not the case for this deck. I think the deck just needs to draw answers and that’s not equal to having lots of cards in hand (since having lands in hand is also card advantage). In any case it just probes we need the most 2-for-1 cards as possible main board.
either i am stupid or sth does not add up ^^ anyway what do you guys think?
I actually don't mind this build. I have said that I don't think Serum + AV in the main is correct, but this looks like the proper direction if you are doing so.
Added Jace Beleren for another PW threat. Curving Jace into Nahiri is a lot of pressure on the opponent.
2 Timely // 2 Anger split means he knows that he might be giving up some tempo due to Serum or AV and has these cards to catch up (or stave off death).
Cut down on Colonnades to increase odds of untapped mana in the early turns.
So even though I wouldn't personally play his build. I can see the thought process, and it outlines a clear strategy; which is paramount when creating a list. That said I would like to see some sweepers in the sideboard; leaning on those Angers too much might come back to bite you.
I have actually been thinking of adding a Cavern of Souls to the sideboard, so I am glad to see that others think along the same lines. Fortunately (or unfortunately) I don't play blue mirrors as much as in my twin days, so having tech for it isn't as useful.
On another note I would like to say that I have been really impressed with my singleton Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. It has been very useful as a 1-of that can take over a game if unchecked, provides virtual card advantage, and pairs quite well with Nahiri. Just have to be wary of the tempo loss if it gets hit with a 1 cmc removal spell. Abrupt Decay has really fallen off compared to when Twin was around, so I don't think having a < 3 cmc permanent is a liability anymore.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
either i am stupid or sth does not add up ^^ anyway what do you guys think?
That is 58 cards not 60. If the two missing cards are helix i like the list a lot, and like the idea of timely in the main
It's 60 cards. The headers quoted above just aren't correct. It should be 23 lands, 5 creatures, 32 spells (16 instants, 11 sorceries, 5 planeswalkers).
My modern Decks: GBRJundGBR URWJeskai NahiriURW My Legacy Deck: URBGrixis DelverURB My EDH Decks: GJarad, Golgari Lich LordB GRhys, The RedeemedW RWArchangel AvacynRW UWDragonlord OjutaiUW
Playing cliques instead of geists mainboard might do a lot against tron/scapeshift/ad nauseum, while not entirely depriving you of a clock.
Is it just me or is Ad Nauseum just unwinnable (it seems they get turn 1 Lotus every game)? I think we can get Tron occasionally by being super aggressive with turn 2 snap and everything to the face (and hoping there hand sux) - similar story with Scapeshift I guess..
How do we feel about Cascade Bluffs in this deck? I feel like a deck that wants to be casting Electrolyze/Anger on three and Cryptic on four wants it very badly.
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My modern Decks: GBRJundGBR URWJeskai NahiriURW My Legacy Deck: URBGrixis DelverURB My EDH Decks: GJarad, Golgari Lich LordB GRhys, The RedeemedW RWArchangel AvacynRW UWDragonlord OjutaiUW
I like bluffs much more in jeskai kiki, but I usually try to make room for one. Going from 1 blue source to cryptic mana in a single land drop is huge.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Hello guys! This is the list I've been piloting to a 30-18 record. I feel it's well tuned for my meta, but I'm open to any suggestions. So far, the roughest MUs have been: Ad Nauseam, Lantern, Mardu, Eldrazi, RG Tron and WG Tokens. Regarding my choices, I'm going back and forth between the 4th Tarn and the 2nd Mesa. Also, right now I'm trying the 2nd Clique over the 4th Colonnade, so far so good. No AV (better in Grixis IMO) and no filter lands (manabase is good).
Has relic of progenitus been sufficient graveyard hate for everyone? I know Rest in Peace is kind of terrible with our snapcaster mages, and if you draw emrakul when you have it out you can't combo (unless you v-clique yourself I guess). But relic doesn't really do anything against the dredge deck that has been popping up a lot more (for me anyways). Is being able to completely shut down graveyard decks worth shutting down our snapcaster?
Grixis control also has a hard time beating rest in peace, and I have had problems beating that deck as well.
My current decklist, trying to find room for relics in the sb. I have been considering just cutting the crumble to dusts and accepting my defeat against tron.
Currently Grixis is probably my biggest problem, especially because they're starting to play dreadbore now because of my deck.
The elspeth, sun's champion could easily be a second v-clique, I just like having something big and impactful in the sideboard (used to be keranos, but I have managed to bring myself to cut him).
Playing the deck i always hated to draw it after turn 2 and in many mulling decisions the hand would have been a keep with serum instead AV.
This deck simply doesn't need pure CA, snapcasters and electrolyze are simply enough.
Oh and you need to play always 4, because it sucks in every turn apart from the first.
If AV works for you against BGx decks good for you, but i would play it in the SB.
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Would you mind sharing your list?
Are you playing mainboard Geist?
//Mana
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Ghost Quarter
//Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
//Counters
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Logic Knot
1 Mana Leak
1 Cryptic Command
//Removal
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 Electrolyze
//Planeswalkers
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
//Other
4 Serum Visions
//Sideboard
SB: 2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Dispel
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Anger of the Gods
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Counterflux
SB: 1 Negate
SB: 1 Celestial Purge
SB: 1 Supreme Verdict
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
4 Remand isn't something I like, I much prefer 2-2 split with Mana Leak, 3 spell Snare feels like 1 too many. I do not like the complete removal of Lightning Helix which feels like one of if not our best card.
I really like the main deck Anger.
Izzet Charm and Jace Beleren seem out of place.
GBRJundGBR
URWJeskai NahiriURW
My Legacy Deck:
URBGrixis DelverURB
My EDH Decks:
GJarad, Golgari Lich LordB
GRhys, The RedeemedW
RWArchangel AvacynRW
UWDragonlord OjutaiUW
In my opinion that’s not the case for this deck. I think the deck just needs to draw answers and that’s not equal to having lots of cards in hand (since having lands in hand is also card advantage). In any case it just probes we need the most 2-for-1 cards as possible main board.
Right now I’m trying this list:
3x Celestial Colonnade
4x Flooded Strand
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
2x Wooded Foothills
4x Nahiri, the Harbinger
Instant 22
2x Cryptic Command
1x Izzet Charm
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Mana Leak
4x Path to Exile
3x Remand
2x Spell Snare
Sorcery 6
2x Anger of the Gods
4x Serum Visions
Creature 5
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Bribery
1x Celestial Purge
2x Crumble to Dust
1x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Negate
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Spellskite
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Wear // Tear
1x Wrath of God
The deck definitely feels lighter and more capable after replacing the 2 electrolyze with the couple of anger main.
Oh and Yay! We got promoted! Congratulations to every pilot of this deck!
I actually don't mind this build. I have said that I don't think Serum + AV in the main is correct, but this looks like the proper direction if you are doing so.
Added Jace Beleren for another PW threat. Curving Jace into Nahiri is a lot of pressure on the opponent.
2 Timely // 2 Anger split means he knows that he might be giving up some tempo due to Serum or AV and has these cards to catch up (or stave off death).
Cut down on Colonnades to increase odds of untapped mana in the early turns.
So even though I wouldn't personally play his build. I can see the thought process, and it outlines a clear strategy; which is paramount when creating a list. That said I would like to see some sweepers in the sideboard; leaning on those Angers too much might come back to bite you.
I have actually been thinking of adding a Cavern of Souls to the sideboard, so I am glad to see that others think along the same lines. Fortunately (or unfortunately) I don't play blue mirrors as much as in my twin days, so having tech for it isn't as useful.
On another note I would like to say that I have been really impressed with my singleton Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. It has been very useful as a 1-of that can take over a game if unchecked, provides virtual card advantage, and pairs quite well with Nahiri. Just have to be wary of the tempo loss if it gets hit with a 1 cmc removal spell. Abrupt Decay has really fallen off compared to when Twin was around, so I don't think having a < 3 cmc permanent is a liability anymore.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)That is 58 cards not 60. If the two missing cards are helix i like the list a lot, and like the idea of timely in the main
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
It's 60 cards. The headers quoted above just aren't correct. It should be 23 lands, 5 creatures, 32 spells (16 instants, 11 sorceries, 5 planeswalkers).
GBRJundGBR
URWJeskai NahiriURW
My Legacy Deck:
URBGrixis DelverURB
My EDH Decks:
GJarad, Golgari Lich LordB
GRhys, The RedeemedW
RWArchangel AvacynRW
UWDragonlord OjutaiUW
The cost of the deck is extremely low, with 4 serum and 3 av to find lands and no cryptics, 23 lands is plenty for this build
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Is it just me or is Ad Nauseum just unwinnable (it seems they get turn 1 Lotus every game)? I think we can get Tron occasionally by being super aggressive with turn 2 snap and everything to the face (and hoping there hand sux) - similar story with Scapeshift I guess..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
GBRJundGBR
URWJeskai NahiriURW
My Legacy Deck:
URBGrixis DelverURB
My EDH Decks:
GJarad, Golgari Lich LordB
GRhys, The RedeemedW
RWArchangel AvacynRW
UWDragonlord OjutaiUW
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
4 Path to Exile
3 Remand
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Desolate Lighthouse
4 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Stony Silence
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wear // Tear
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Grixis control also has a hard time beating rest in peace, and I have had problems beating that deck as well.
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Desolate Lighthouse
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
Creatures(6)
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Vendilion Clique
4x Nahiri, the Harbinger
Instants (21)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
3x Lightning Helix
2x Electrolyze
2x Mana Leak
2x Remand
2x Spell Snare
2x Cryptic Command
Sorcery(5)
4x Serum Visions
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Celestial Purge
2x Crumble to Dust
1x dispel
2x negate
1x elspeth, sun's champion
1x Wrath of God
1x izzet staticaster
2x stony silence
1x timely reinforcements
1x wear/tear
My current decklist, trying to find room for relics in the sb. I have been considering just cutting the crumble to dusts and accepting my defeat against tron.
Currently Grixis is probably my biggest problem, especially because they're starting to play dreadbore now because of my deck.
The elspeth, sun's champion could easily be a second v-clique, I just like having something big and impactful in the sideboard (used to be keranos, but I have managed to bring myself to cut him).
GWU Eldrazi
BRG Living End
WBG JunkFit