After you mentioned that about the Restos, I did a little retweaking, and found a list I think I might like better.
MD
-2 Restoration Angel
+1 Vendilion Clique
+1 Gideon Jura (found myself siding this in enough to MD it)
SD
-1 Sower of Temptation (with a lot of people switching from Abzan to Jund, myself included, I see this being less effective as a 2-of)
-1 Vendilion Clique
-1 Gideon Jura
+1 Stony Silence
+1 Celestial Purge
+1 Wrath of God (could be another Stony Silence depending on how much tron I see, *** seems useful in more matchups including Affinity)
I'm not really a fan of Sower, but it has its merits, and its often a very strong play. Celestial Purge is an excellent idea, and I may find myself adding another one if black becomes very prominent.
Gideon is really fun, and if you manage to stabilise against Burn, then land him, it's basically GG. The mainboard Clique is something I wholeheartedly agree with. It's great against Twin, great against those silly CoCo decks, and laughs at Tron when they're a turn away from landing a Karn. It's not great against Jund, but if it lands and instantly dies, it's a pretty good 3 mana Peek. Information is super important.
I noticed that many list don't have Anticipate in it but rather Think Twice. Is the consensus that this card is better?
Think Twice draws cards at instant speed, while Anticipate gives you a choice of cards at instant speed. Anticipate would be better because of this, however, Think Twice has flashback, not requiring a Snapcaster to get extra value out of it. Again, the flashback is at instant speed, so you can do it if you're not doing anything else.
At my local lgs burn have been one of the matchups which i haven't had too much problems with.
Sure game 1 is horrid, but spellskites, timely, negate, dispel and explosives sided in makes it a tad easier to actually survive and take over the game against burn.
I would use timely over sanctimony since its good in more matchups, and as said can be flashbacked for reuse.
At my local lgs burn have been one of the matchups which i haven't had too much problems with.
Sure game 1 is horrid, but spellskites, timely, negate, dispel and explosives sided in makes it a tad easier to actually survive and take over the game against burn.
I would use timely over sanctimony since its good in more matchups, and as said can be flashbacked for reuse.
I would even use Leyline over Sanctimony because it's better for my opponent for not do anything. Leyline is also good against fringe decks, like Storm and 8rack.
Flashfreeze is a great counterspell, which, if you have the choice, should put in your sideboard instead of Negate.
I would even use Leyline over Sanctimony because it's better for my opponent for not do anything. Leyline is also good against fringe decks, like Storm and 8rack.
Flashfreeze is a great counterspell, which, if you have the choice, should put in your sideboard instead of Negate.
leyline is actually pretty bad against storm, if they 'combo off' they'll just echoing truth the leyline before grapeshotting you for 100, they side an echoing truth every game 2, it very rarely stops them from winning. Besides that, storm tends to cut a grapeshot (if they run two) and bring in one or two empty the warrens in anticipation of us cutting our wraths, which we tend to do. I wouldn't even bother siding in leyline against storm if I had one in my board.
Flashfreeze is fine, it's pretty good actually but I really wouldn't suggest cutting a negate for it, negate is good in so many matchups, I bring it in against: junk, burn, delver, twin, titan just to name a few off the top of my head. I think that you want some number of really versatile answers in your board for times when you have a lot of dead cards, negate fills that role perfectly.
I haven't tweaked the main in quite some time: the sideboard is what gets most of my work. I have been contemplating upping the Revs to two in the main, probably removing an Ajani. Another change I have been contemplating would be 1x Shadow of Doubt, given all the the Company decks going around.
I would even use Leyline over Sanctimony because it's better for my opponent for not do anything. Leyline is also good against fringe decks, like Storm and 8rack.
Flashfreeze is a great counterspell, which, if you have the choice, should put in your sideboard instead of Negate.
leyline is actually pretty bad against storm, if they 'combo off' they'll just echoing truth the leyline before grapeshotting you for 100, they side an echoing truth every game 2, it very rarely stops them from winning. Besides that, storm tends to cut a grapeshot (if they run two) and bring in one or two empty the warrens in anticipation of us cutting our wraths, which we tend to do. I wouldn't even bother siding in leyline against storm if I had one in my board.
Flashfreeze is fine, it's pretty good actually but I really wouldn't suggest cutting a negate for it, negate is good in so many matchups, I bring it in against: junk, burn, delver, twin, titan just to name a few off the top of my head. I think that you want some number of really versatile answers in your board for times when you have a lot of dead cards, negate fills that role perfectly.
Leyline is not particularly great against storm, but it's better than other cards you've got, so you might as well. Flashfreeze is a hard counter for Prime Time, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Young Pyro, Collected Company, Kitchen Finks, Siege Rhino and Goyf. The versatility of a colour hoser which hits 2 popular colours is really strong. Negate hits noncreature spells, but you can't stop a Rhino, or Prime Time. Since you're playing a control deck, noncreature spells usually aren't what hurt you. Negate is just an average card, and not one which I would allocate a sideboard slot to. The amount of times I actually want a Negate is pretty low, because I can just Mana Leak the spells. Flashfreeze is never dead against red and green decks, but Negate is sometimes dead in the control mirror.
I haven't tweaked the main in quite some time: the sideboard is what gets most of my work. I have been contemplating upping the Revs to two in the main, probably removing an Ajani. Another change I have been contemplating would be 1x Shadow of Doubt, given all the the Company decks going around.
Shadow of Doubt doesn't directly stop CoCo, though. CoCo isn't searching (it's the green Dig Through Time). I wouldn't be going all in with the Cryptics, and 2 Ajani Vengeant seems a bit over the top. Gideon Jura would fill that role well.
Why the 3 Relics? Now that Cruise is banned, I've never needed more than 1.
I haven't tweaked the main in quite some time: the sideboard is what gets most of my work. I have been contemplating upping the Revs to two in the main, probably removing an Ajani. Another change I have been contemplating would be 1x Shadow of Doubt, given all the the Company decks going around.
Shadow of Doubt doesn't directly stop CoCo, though. CoCo isn't searching (it's the green Dig Through Time). I wouldn't be going all in with the Cryptics, and 2 Ajani Vengeant seems a bit over the top. Gideon Jura would fill that role well.
Why the 3 Relics? Now that Cruise is banned, I've never needed more than 1.
I'm aware that Shadow of Doubt doesn't block CoCo the card, but the Company decks also run Chord of Calling, which it DOES block.
I'm not sure that I have ever been sorry for running 4x Cryptic in the main... And I don't see that changing anytime soon.
I agree with you that 2x Ajani is a bit much now, which is why I'm thinking of trimming one for a second Rev.
Relics are still really good. An early Relic is great against Tarmogoyf, Tasigur, and Snapcasters. And since they cycle, they're never just dead draws. Being that a huge percentage of decks are running 1 or more of those cards, Relic is, in my book, pretty important... Hence 3.
Since you're going all-in on the burn plan, test out Narset and see how she fares. Maybe it'll be that that's just what we need to do to be T1. McLaren thought as such, but his mainboard had a couple problems.
Since you're going all-in on the burn plan, test out Narset and see how she fares. Maybe it'll be that that's just what we need to do to be T1. McLaren thought as such, but his mainboard had a couple problems.
I've tried her out on MTGO, and she was underwhelming. A 4 cmc sorcery, to me, needs to cause an instant impact, or it's just not where I want to be. FYI, McLaren isn't running her anymore either.
Just to be clear, I doubt UWR Control will EVER move to T1 at this point, and who really cares. It's just too difficult to play compared to so many other powerful decks. The tier system isn't really an indicator of how good a deck is as much as it's an indicator of how many people are playing with it... And I don't think that a deck that punishes even little misplays is really going to get there at this point.
I've tried her out on MTGO, and she was underwhelming. A 4 cmc sorcery, to me, needs to cause an instant impact, or it's just not where I want to be. FYI, McLaren isn't running her anymore either.
Just to be clear, I doubt UWR Control will EVER move to T1 at this point, and who really cares. It's just too difficult to play compared to so many other powerful decks. The tier system isn't really an indicator of how good a deck is as much as it's an indicator of how many people are playing with it... And I don't think that a deck that punishes even little misplays is really going to get there at this point.
That's unfortunately what I was expecting. I don't disagree that UWR Control will have a hard time because it's such a difficult deck, but like all challenging decks, if you're good enough at it, you can beat anything. Jon Finkel can beat basically anything with storm, why shouldn't we be able to beat anything with Control? It has the right elements to succeed, that has been proven, there just has to be a really skilled pilot.
Oh definitely UWR Control can win. Just like every deck, it has bad matchups, and good matchups. I will always play it, and I do well with it. The nice thing is, being Tier 2, people don't plan against your deck when creating side boards... I think UWR is positioned well. Just, a lot of people would rather play easier decks, so UWR Control won't be as popular. Doesn't mean it isn't as good.
A big issue is that I keep going to time. I was wondering if I should get another win con, or should I be able to close out games with my current list? Perhaps I could go to 25 lands, or cut shadow of doubt for Gideon Jura? Also, how is my sideboard? A lot of boggle players in my area.
Definitely go to 25x land. You should be at 25-26x generally.
Regarding going to time. The deck isn't the fastest for sure, but there is an art to knowing when to transition to Colonnade beatdown. Generally once you go on the offensive, the game should wrap up soon. Depending on matchup, it's sometimes right to just play aggressive like a burn deck. The point of the deck isn't to establish a sort of indefinite hard lock like with the old Standard Sphinx Rev decks. More so to control the early aggression, stymie combo attempts, and the transition to an aggressive stance when you smell blood.
So I was thinking about switching think twice for izzet charm. My rationale is twofold.
1. Is that the charm is more versatile having three modes of Spell Pierce, shock, and faithless looter. All useful.
2. While I understand that izzet charm is card disadvantage 3 to discard pile for only two cards. It seems to me in many match ups that we are playing to grab the few answers we have to all the different synergies in the format. So it seems a deeper filter that can have two other uses may be more valuable.
I am really curious to hear the other side here. I have been under the assumption that this must be the wrong direction as no one seems to include izzet charm. Just would like to hear if there is a theory why. I hate making deck decisions simply because "no one runs this card" instead of understanding why I am not including it.
Somehow every time I resolve the card, I win the game. Truth to be told, I mainly play the deck in the practice games on MTGO.
I know the card is expensive, 6 mana is a lot, but when she hits, you've pretty much won against quite a lot of decks.
I understand that the practice games are not the most competitive meta, but why is she not played? Is it that hard to stay alive until turn 6 to cast her and take over the board?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm not really a fan of Sower, but it has its merits, and its often a very strong play. Celestial Purge is an excellent idea, and I may find myself adding another one if black becomes very prominent.
Gideon is really fun, and if you manage to stabilise against Burn, then land him, it's basically GG. The mainboard Clique is something I wholeheartedly agree with. It's great against Twin, great against those silly CoCo decks, and laughs at Tron when they're a turn away from landing a Karn. It's not great against Jund, but if it lands and instantly dies, it's a pretty good 3 mana Peek. Information is super important.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Playing RIP and Snapcasters in the same deck is not strong.
Relic, on the other hand, is still a brilliant card. Play it.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Think Twice draws cards at instant speed, while Anticipate gives you a choice of cards at instant speed. Anticipate would be better because of this, however, Think Twice has flashback, not requiring a Snapcaster to get extra value out of it. Again, the flashback is at instant speed, so you can do it if you're not doing anything else.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Sure game 1 is horrid, but spellskites, timely, negate, dispel and explosives sided in makes it a tad easier to actually survive and take over the game against burn.
I would use timely over sanctimony since its good in more matchups, and as said can be flashbacked for reuse.
I would even use Leyline over Sanctimony because it's better for my opponent for not do anything. Leyline is also good against fringe decks, like Storm and 8rack.
Flashfreeze is a great counterspell, which, if you have the choice, should put in your sideboard instead of Negate.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
leyline is actually pretty bad against storm, if they 'combo off' they'll just echoing truth the leyline before grapeshotting you for 100, they side an echoing truth every game 2, it very rarely stops them from winning. Besides that, storm tends to cut a grapeshot (if they run two) and bring in one or two empty the warrens in anticipation of us cutting our wraths, which we tend to do. I wouldn't even bother siding in leyline against storm if I had one in my board.
Flashfreeze is fine, it's pretty good actually but I really wouldn't suggest cutting a negate for it, negate is good in so many matchups, I bring it in against: junk, burn, delver, twin, titan just to name a few off the top of my head. I think that you want some number of really versatile answers in your board for times when you have a lot of dead cards, negate fills that role perfectly.
2x Arid Mesa
4x Celestial Colonnade
3x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
3x Tectonic Edge
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
Plainswalkers (2):
2x Ajani Vengeant
Other Spells (28):
4x Cryptic Command
4x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
3x Path to Exile
3x Mana Leak
3x Remand
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Batterskull
1x Celestial Purge
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Dispel
1x Porphyry Nodes
3x Relic of Progenitus
1x Rending Volley
2x Stony Silence
1x Threads of Disloyalty
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Wear // Tear
1x Wrath of God
I haven't tweaked the main in quite some time: the sideboard is what gets most of my work. I have been contemplating upping the Revs to two in the main, probably removing an Ajani. Another change I have been contemplating would be 1x Shadow of Doubt, given all the the Company decks going around.
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Leyline is not particularly great against storm, but it's better than other cards you've got, so you might as well. Flashfreeze is a hard counter for Prime Time, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Young Pyro, Collected Company, Kitchen Finks, Siege Rhino and Goyf. The versatility of a colour hoser which hits 2 popular colours is really strong. Negate hits noncreature spells, but you can't stop a Rhino, or Prime Time. Since you're playing a control deck, noncreature spells usually aren't what hurt you. Negate is just an average card, and not one which I would allocate a sideboard slot to. The amount of times I actually want a Negate is pretty low, because I can just Mana Leak the spells. Flashfreeze is never dead against red and green decks, but Negate is sometimes dead in the control mirror.
Shadow of Doubt doesn't directly stop CoCo, though. CoCo isn't searching (it's the green Dig Through Time). I wouldn't be going all in with the Cryptics, and 2 Ajani Vengeant seems a bit over the top. Gideon Jura would fill that role well.
Why the 3 Relics? Now that Cruise is banned, I've never needed more than 1.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
I'm aware that Shadow of Doubt doesn't block CoCo the card, but the Company decks also run Chord of Calling, which it DOES block.
I'm not sure that I have ever been sorry for running 4x Cryptic in the main... And I don't see that changing anytime soon.
I agree with you that 2x Ajani is a bit much now, which is why I'm thinking of trimming one for a second Rev.
Relics are still really good. An early Relic is great against Tarmogoyf, Tasigur, and Snapcasters. And since they cycle, they're never just dead draws. Being that a huge percentage of decks are running 1 or more of those cards, Relic is, in my book, pretty important... Hence 3.
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
I've tried her out on MTGO, and she was underwhelming. A 4 cmc sorcery, to me, needs to cause an instant impact, or it's just not where I want to be. FYI, McLaren isn't running her anymore either.
Just to be clear, I doubt UWR Control will EVER move to T1 at this point, and who really cares. It's just too difficult to play compared to so many other powerful decks. The tier system isn't really an indicator of how good a deck is as much as it's an indicator of how many people are playing with it... And I don't think that a deck that punishes even little misplays is really going to get there at this point.
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
That's unfortunately what I was expecting. I don't disagree that UWR Control will have a hard time because it's such a difficult deck, but like all challenging decks, if you're good enough at it, you can beat anything. Jon Finkel can beat basically anything with storm, why shouldn't we be able to beat anything with Control? It has the right elements to succeed, that has been proven, there just has to be a really skilled pilot.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Tectonic Edge
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
1 Logic Knot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
3 Electrolyze
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Stony Silence
1 Celestial Purge
3 Molten Rain
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Wear // Tear
1 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Keranos, God of Storms
A big issue is that I keep going to time. I was wondering if I should get another win con, or should I be able to close out games with my current list? Perhaps I could go to 25 lands, or cut shadow of doubt for Gideon Jura? Also, how is my sideboard? A lot of boggle players in my area.
Regarding going to time. The deck isn't the fastest for sure, but there is an art to knowing when to transition to Colonnade beatdown. Generally once you go on the offensive, the game should wrap up soon. Depending on matchup, it's sometimes right to just play aggressive like a burn deck. The point of the deck isn't to establish a sort of indefinite hard lock like with the old Standard Sphinx Rev decks. More so to control the early aggression, stymie combo attempts, and the transition to an aggressive stance when you smell blood.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
1x Arid Mesa
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Desolate Lighthouse
3x Flooded Strand
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
Artifact (1)
1x Batterskull
Planeswalker (1)
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Keranos, God of Storms
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
Instant (24)
3x Cryptic Command
3x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
2x Mana Leak
1x Logic Knot
3x Path to Exile
2x Shadow of Doubt
2x Spell Snare
1x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Think Twice
Sorcery (2)
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Wrath of God
2x Celestial Purge
2x Counterflux
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Negate
2x Sowing Salt
1x Stony Silence
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Wear / Tear
So I was thinking about switching think twice for izzet charm. My rationale is twofold.
1. Is that the charm is more versatile having three modes of Spell Pierce, shock, and faithless looter. All useful.
2. While I understand that izzet charm is card disadvantage 3 to discard pile for only two cards. It seems to me in many match ups that we are playing to grab the few answers we have to all the different synergies in the format. So it seems a deeper filter that can have two other uses may be more valuable.
I am really curious to hear the other side here. I have been under the assumption that this must be the wrong direction as no one seems to include izzet charm. Just would like to hear if there is a theory why. I hate making deck decisions simply because "no one runs this card" instead of understanding why I am not including it.
Somehow every time I resolve the card, I win the game. Truth to be told, I mainly play the deck in the practice games on MTGO.
I know the card is expensive, 6 mana is a lot, but when she hits, you've pretty much won against quite a lot of decks.
I understand that the practice games are not the most competitive meta, but why is she not played? Is it that hard to stay alive until turn 6 to cast her and take over the board?