2 seems fine depending on the meta. In the end I think it will be a meta call. If your local meta is all fast aggro then you are better off with more removal IMO.
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I've got a bad gut feeling that Myth Realized has more impact faster. In testing with a UWR Control-like build with 4 MRs (I can't quite recommend such a build, by the way), a Turn 1 MR actually deals enough damage to RG Tron that Tron can't fully stabilize afterwards and dies to burn with a dash of Celestial Colonnades. I can't see a Turn 2 Luminarch Ascension killing RG Tron fast enough.
LA, like MR, dies to Abrupt Decay and can take a while to get active. About LA's only perk vs. MR is that it doesn't die to creature removal. Frankly, Mastery of the Unseen feels like LA if it got going significantly earlier but it produced worse guys. (In testing of MotU in full UWR Control, MotU was actually a decent cheap finisher but was rather slow to get going and was stuck on continuous chump-blocking duty surprisingly often.)
...Then again, in UWR Control mirrors, MR likely dies to double Bolt, while...oh, who am I kidding? Any UWR Control opponent will be flinging burn at your face in regular intervals, thus really slowing down LA (but not MotU).
Counterfux's have been high performers. Hindering Light is currently being tested and not likely to stay at 4'of. Other candidates for that slot are Negate, Dispel, Azorious Charm, or a mix.
I've been meaning to ask this for a while now, but how exactly does the Ghost Quarter + Crucible of Worlds sideboard plan work? Against what kinds of decks do we bring that in? Grindy matchups like Abzan or Control mirror? Tron definitely but I'm confused at what other applications it has.
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Most decks don't run many basics. So if you are killing a land every turn, you are going to run them out of basics fairly quickly (especially with paths). Once they are out, you are just killing a land every turn at that point.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Most decks don't run many basics. So if you are killing a land every turn, you are going to run them out of basics fairly quickly (especially with paths). Once they are out, you are just killing a land every turn at that point.
I get the game plan, but vs what decks do we board it in? Where is it most potent?
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My problem with Crucible was that in the matchups you wanted it in it had to be drawn with Tectonic Edge to be of huge value and even then they didn't need so many lands to operate. It would take a ton of turns to get them down to 3 if they had 8 or so out when it was online.
My problem with Crucible was that in the matchups you wanted it in it had to be drawn with Tectonic Edge to be of huge value and even then they didn't need so many lands to operate. It would take a ton of turns to get them down to 3 if they had 8 or so out when it was online.
Yeah, Crucible seems sweet, but super slow and odds of drawing the 1-of by turn 6 (not including any dig cards like Anticipate) along with a Ghost Quarter is pretty low.
Worked out the hypergeometric distribution and it's like 9.54% to have both having seen 12 cards.
Lots of funky one-ofs in the side considering the large and unknown meta. I'm mostly looking for a second wincon that I can safely play against Twin; Jace, Architect of Thought has been rather underwhelming to me, being bad against many popular decks. Similarly, I'm really not sure about Sphinx Rev. Once you hit 6 lands it's insane, but so many decks win on turn 4 right now it just seems too slow. Being able to move Wrath of God to mainboard might also be a good idea, but I wouldn't know what to cut; Anticipate seems like either a 4-of or a 0-of, with little in between.
Lots of funky one-ofs in the side considering the large and unknown meta. I'm mostly looking for a second wincon that I can safely play against Twin; Jace, Architect of Thought has been rather underwhelming to me, being bad against many popular decks. Similarly, I'm really not sure about Sphinx Rev. Once you hit 6 lands it's insane, but so many decks win on turn 4 right now it just seems too slow. Being able to move Wrath of God to mainboard might also be a good idea, but I wouldn't know what to cut; Anticipate seems like either a 4-of or a 0-of, with little in between.
I like your list, and the only thing I would change, would be to trim the 3rd snare for the 4th cryptic and maybe add in a second verdict or the 4th anticiapte. its a great card, but having multiple board wipes is important, also need 3 islands, as having 3 island to bounce a moon or such with cryptic matters some times, I would cut the 4th tarn to squeeze it in.
SB looks to be good, covering alot of matches, perhaps dispel over second negate.
I agree that it's a bit slow. I like the interaction but don't use it myself. I've had it work pretty well against me in the control mirror. He dropped it turn 3 and didn't see 4th land but was able to keep playing fetches from the yard. Then locked me on 3 lands with his tec edge. I don't think it's good in the current meta though
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
1st out of 46 is a pretty solid finish for a UW deck. Anything we can learn from this?
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1st out of 46 is a pretty solid finish for a UW deck. Anything we can learn from this?
He probably should have been running even more fatties. Playing powerful planeswalkers and other 4 drops is very good in Modern; Soorani has been getting people with this sort of midrange/control hybrid for some time, now. I think in UWR, you're better off if the expensive permanents synergize with Bolt -> Snapcaster -> Bolt, kill you from double digits. Gideon and baby Elspeth help that, though Elspeth dies to anything. Thundermaw is something else I've considered.
I tried Shackles, even have the foil. The card was never worth it. You need a way to sac their creature and keep it moving. If it only takes 1 creature it's just a Control Magic with a million "ifs".
I know Wafo played Sun's Champion in his Esper build. I don't get the card. It's only good against Junk, and Gideon is great there, as well.
@Lordgrimpow: Myth Realized is a trap IMHO. Other than that, way too few lands. You should have 25-26 for this deck. I'd also want to find room for 1x Sphinx's Rev.
Just would like to share my experience against Burn matches; Monastery Siege. I know, it is not Leyline of Sanctity but is cheaper and is able to 'defend' itself (in Dragons mode).
If you are able to untap with the Siege in game it is a nice tempo advantage.
In my experience I've found Sphinx's revelation to be too slow. If I draw it early it's just a dead card in my hand until I have enough mana to make it worth while. And if I don't draw it early, I'll probably never see it because games typically end by turn 4-5 anyway. I would honestly rather run Anticipate before I ever consider Sphinx's Revelation.
I've been liking Myth Realized in what little testing I've done so far. I've tested against Abzan so far because that's my other Modern deck. I'll be testing it more against other match ups soon. Then I'll find out if I want any. I do really want it to be good, because I really like the card. It dodges counter magic fairly easily, as well as Lightning Bolt and my own sweepers. So I'll keep testing it for now. If not, I'll probably add some number of Anticipate and Lightning Helix.
I'll try to find room for a 25th land and see what kind of difference it makes.
@wilsonvida, I do like that as an alternative. It's nice because it also has flexibility in multiples unlike the Leyline. It's also decent in other matchups besides Burn and Scapeshift as well which I also like. Leyline does at least have the advantage of dodging counterspells though, so that's something to consider.
In my experience I've found Sphinx's revelation to be too slow. If I draw it early it's just a dead card in my hand until I have enough mana to make it worth while. And if I don't draw it early, I'll probably never see it because games typically end by turn 4-5 anyway. I would honestly rather run Anticipate before I ever consider Sphinx's Revelation.
I've been liking Myth Realized in what little testing I've done so far. I've tested against Abzan so far because that's my other Modern deck. I'll be testing it more against other match ups soon. Then I'll find out if I want any. I do really want it to be good, because I really like the card. So I'll keep testing it for now. If not, I'll probably add some number of Anticipate and Lightning Helix.
I'll try to find room for a 25th land and see what kind of difference it makes.
@wilsonvida, I do like that as an alternative. It's nice because it also has flexibility in multiples unlike the Leyline. It's also decent in other matchups besides Burn and Scapeshift as well which I also like. Leyline does at least have the advantage of dodging counterspells though, so that's something to consider.
Check out my above list for a way to really abuse Myth Realized here.
I'm not really trying to abuse Myth Realized per say. I simply want to test it as a viable threat.
Aside from that, I really have to disagree with a lot of what your list is doing.
I don't like Hindering Light because it's so narrow. Sure it can protect you from burn and your permanents from non Abrupt Decay removal. I'd rather have a Remand/Mana Leak/Spell Snare in that slot. Spell Snare is equally good against burn, but better in other matchups.
I don't like Counterflux main because, aside from Cryptic Command which has versatility, I don't like 3+ cc counterspells in the main deck. Better to have spell snares or mana leaks.
3 Supreme Verdict main also feels like too many unless your meta is filled with creature-based aggro. In an unknown meta, I'd run 2 MD and possibly 1 in the SB. Between 2 Verdict, 4 Path, 4 Bolt, 2-4 Helix, 1-3 Electrolyze, and several counterspells that can counter creatures, I feel like the deck has plenty of MD ways to deal with creatures that 3 Verdicts is just too many. And if you still want 4 Verdicts in the 75, then I also feel like 3 Ghostly Prison is way too much hedging against creature aggro unless that is the only thing you ever expect to play against.
I would run minimum 3 islands in case of Blood Moon.
Finally, you really need to diversify your side board more. In an unknown meta of a diverse format like this, you'd be seriously under prepared otherwise.
@Grim - Well in fairness you suffer from the 3cc counterspells are bad myopia that plagues this forum which completely undermines anything else you might say. Also I specifically stated I was just testing Hindering Light, its good here btw, but there's no need for a full playset. This makes me question whether or not you read the description at all. The counterflux's are amazing - its a no questions asked answer at 3cc, instant maelstrom pulse if you will. You want lots of counters here cuz even if they dont cast anything you pump up the myth realized, even more added value. Myth Realized gives the draw go place style free added value in general.
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I've got a bad gut feeling that Myth Realized has more impact faster. In testing with a UWR Control-like build with 4 MRs (I can't quite recommend such a build, by the way), a Turn 1 MR actually deals enough damage to RG Tron that Tron can't fully stabilize afterwards and dies to burn with a dash of Celestial Colonnades. I can't see a Turn 2 Luminarch Ascension killing RG Tron fast enough.
LA, like MR, dies to Abrupt Decay and can take a while to get active. About LA's only perk vs. MR is that it doesn't die to creature removal. Frankly, Mastery of the Unseen feels like LA if it got going significantly earlier but it produced worse guys. (In testing of MotU in full UWR Control, MotU was actually a decent cheap finisher but was rather slow to get going and was stuck on continuous chump-blocking duty surprisingly often.)
...Then again, in UWR Control mirrors, MR likely dies to double Bolt, while...oh, who am I kidding? Any UWR Control opponent will be flinging burn at your face in regular intervals, thus really slowing down LA (but not MotU).
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Seachrome Coast
3 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
4 Path to Exile
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Cryptic Command
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Counterflux
4 Lightning Helix
4 Hindering Light
2 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Pithing Needle
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Negate
Counterfux's have been high performers. Hindering Light is currently being tested and not likely to stay at 4'of. Other candidates for that slot are Negate, Dispel, Azorious Charm, or a mix.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
I get the game plan, but vs what decks do we board it in? Where is it most potent?
Yeah, Crucible seems sweet, but super slow and odds of drawing the 1-of by turn 6 (not including any dig cards like Anticipate) along with a Ghost Quarter is pretty low.
Worked out the hypergeometric distribution and it's like 9.54% to have both having seen 12 cards.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Path to Exile
4 Anticipate
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
3 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
1 Gideon Jura
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Batterskull
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Wrath of God
1 Wear // Tear
2 Stony Silence
2 Negate
1 Pulse of the Fields
2 Celestial Purge
2 Rending Volley
1 Celestial Flare
1 Sowing Salt
Lots of funky one-ofs in the side considering the large and unknown meta. I'm mostly looking for a second wincon that I can safely play against Twin; Jace, Architect of Thought has been rather underwhelming to me, being bad against many popular decks. Similarly, I'm really not sure about Sphinx Rev. Once you hit 6 lands it's insane, but so many decks win on turn 4 right now it just seems too slow. Being able to move Wrath of God to mainboard might also be a good idea, but I wouldn't know what to cut; Anticipate seems like either a 4-of or a 0-of, with little in between.
I like your list, and the only thing I would change, would be to trim the 3rd snare for the 4th cryptic and maybe add in a second verdict or the 4th anticiapte. its a great card, but having multiple board wipes is important, also need 3 islands, as having 3 island to bounce a moon or such with cryptic matters some times, I would cut the 4th tarn to squeeze it in.
SB looks to be good, covering alot of matches, perhaps dispel over second negate.
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Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
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1st out of 46 is a pretty solid finish for a UW deck. Anything we can learn from this?
He probably should have been running even more fatties. Playing powerful planeswalkers and other 4 drops is very good in Modern; Soorani has been getting people with this sort of midrange/control hybrid for some time, now. I think in UWR, you're better off if the expensive permanents synergize with Bolt -> Snapcaster -> Bolt, kill you from double digits. Gideon and baby Elspeth help that, though Elspeth dies to anything. Thundermaw is something else I've considered.
I tried Shackles, even have the foil. The card was never worth it. You need a way to sac their creature and keep it moving. If it only takes 1 creature it's just a Control Magic with a million "ifs".
I know Wafo played Sun's Champion in his Esper build. I don't get the card. It's only good against Junk, and Gideon is great there, as well.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Myth Realized
Instant (22)
2 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
3 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
3 Spell Snare
Sorcery (6)
4 Lingering Souls
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
5 Island
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Batterskull
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Counterflux
2 Negate
1 Rending Volley
1 Wear // Tear
2 Stony Silence
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
If you are able to untap with the Siege in game it is a nice tempo advantage.
I've been liking Myth Realized in what little testing I've done so far. I've tested against Abzan so far because that's my other Modern deck. I'll be testing it more against other match ups soon. Then I'll find out if I want any. I do really want it to be good, because I really like the card. It dodges counter magic fairly easily, as well as Lightning Bolt and my own sweepers. So I'll keep testing it for now. If not, I'll probably add some number of Anticipate and Lightning Helix.
I'll try to find room for a 25th land and see what kind of difference it makes.
@wilsonvida, I do like that as an alternative. It's nice because it also has flexibility in multiples unlike the Leyline. It's also decent in other matchups besides Burn and Scapeshift as well which I also like. Leyline does at least have the advantage of dodging counterspells though, so that's something to consider.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Check out my above list for a way to really abuse Myth Realized here.
I'm not really trying to abuse Myth Realized per say. I simply want to test it as a viable threat.
Aside from that, I really have to disagree with a lot of what your list is doing.
I don't like Hindering Light because it's so narrow. Sure it can protect you from burn and your permanents from non Abrupt Decay removal. I'd rather have a Remand/Mana Leak/Spell Snare in that slot. Spell Snare is equally good against burn, but better in other matchups.
I don't like Counterflux main because, aside from Cryptic Command which has versatility, I don't like 3+ cc counterspells in the main deck. Better to have spell snares or mana leaks.
3 Supreme Verdict main also feels like too many unless your meta is filled with creature-based aggro. In an unknown meta, I'd run 2 MD and possibly 1 in the SB. Between 2 Verdict, 4 Path, 4 Bolt, 2-4 Helix, 1-3 Electrolyze, and several counterspells that can counter creatures, I feel like the deck has plenty of MD ways to deal with creatures that 3 Verdicts is just too many. And if you still want 4 Verdicts in the 75, then I also feel like 3 Ghostly Prison is way too much hedging against creature aggro unless that is the only thing you ever expect to play against.
I would run minimum 3 islands in case of Blood Moon.
Finally, you really need to diversify your side board more. In an unknown meta of a diverse format like this, you'd be seriously under prepared otherwise.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW