Ya as much as I like this card, it really has no place in modern. We already don't play dshpere to not open us up to abrupt decay, and this is the same story.
Mystical Teachings is just too slow and not enough of a worthwhile effect to be worth much. It's good in Grixis mostly because they can take advantage of it as a card for Liliana to eat. The addition of black for teachings isn't a problem because you can still get face value easily and it's not needed until t6 at the earliest. Terminate requires a more color intense requirement early and murderous cut also wants its mana early. UWR already has access to quite possibly the best removal as it is. Bolt, Path, Snapcaster, Helix, Verdict do well enough without turning aggro matchups worse.
So I'm currently running a pretty similar list to the one that got 4th at SCG Baltimore a few weeks back, but have a Tasigur, the Golden Fang instead of the Mystical Teachings. My question to you all, is Tasigur worth it for you? I haven't had the opportunity to test much yet, but in theory he seems nice and he can shrink goyfs. On the other hand, he's easily removed by a path. But he's a great topdeck during a grind. However, would a second Sphinx's Revelation just be better? I've got the 1-1 split between them right now but I'm worried that Tasigur won't secure a game as well as Rev.
Also running 2 Shadow of Doubt. Is that card a meta-call? What is it good against? What does it fall short against? I'm leaning towards more Mana Leak or Lightning Helix in their place but I haven't actually gotten to use the card and see how good/bad it is. I mean, worst case scenario its a cantrip?
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Also running 2 Shadow of Doubt. Is that card a meta-call? What is it good against? What does it fall short against? I'm leaning towards more Mana Leak or Lightning Helix in their place but I haven't actually gotten to use the card and see how good/bad it is. I mean, worst case scenario its a cantrip?
I like shadow of doubt if you have access to it, but it can be a tad hard to find. It is really great in a lot of fringe matchups like tron and scapeshift, plus just being very good vs fetches.
I guarantee if you catch an abzan player off guard and mess up their lands not only will it give you an advantage it will alter their play in the coming games.
And honestly when its at its worst, it acts as a bad think twice and can just smooth your draws.
What do you guys think of a singleton Echoing Truth in the MD? It answers problematic permanents if it was not possible to counter them (Blood Moon, Lingering Souls, Shackles, etc)
I'm pretty sure it also stops the Splinter Twin combo if used correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Thanks
Yesterday I played in a 'Road to Vegas' and I'd like to report my experience with UWR Control. I've been playing with the deck for more than one year now and went 0-3 before dropping...
- 1st match was an U/G brew with a few Mana Leaks and some flash creatures. I won game 1 with Resto beatdown but lost games 2 and 3 due my Cryptic Commands being countered by Dispels....
- 2nd match was an U/G Infect. My opponent played in the last Pro Tour so it was a very skilled guy. I got completely destroyed in the first game.
After SB, the second game was a lot closer and after cleaning the board with Verdicts and Paths, he was able to draw a Glistener Elf kill me after I deployed an Engineered Explosives but didn't have the mana to activate it.
- 3rd match - Abzan. In this match I could see (in my opinion) the current weakness of the UWR Control. Both games started with Inquisition of Kozilek followed by Thoughtseizes removing all my wraths and counters. I had some good draws but after the hand disruption I was always behind.
I live in Brazil and I believe the current metagame here is too 'creature based' making very hard to play any type of Control specially with the current hand disruption available.
I'm switching to UWR Midrange to check if it is better suited for an agressive meta. I will also try some changes in my current Control list (more Wall of Omens and maybe a few Detention Spheres to slow down my opponent).
I think rather than try to play the midrange version I would rather go farther on the control end of the spectrum of the deck. I played the flash creature version of UWR with restoration angel, vendilion clique and snapcaster mage for quite sometime, and before that I played the geist of saint traft version. I don't think jamming more creatures into a field already full of creatures is the solution. I went to the flash version because the midrange version of the deck gets absolutely wrecked by hand disruption. With all the liliana of the veil, thoughtseize and siege rhino's running around the last thing I want to be doing is trying to jam geists through combat.
Now that the flash creatures fail pretty miserably in the format (clique and mindcensor are trumped by souls/Resto is rather embarrassing when compared to rhino) I feel we need to go in a different direction with the deck. I am a huge fan of the lingering souls version of the deck. Souls shores up a lot of the problems in the deck, it is a great defensive option. It can be used to pressure planeswalkers, it is great vs lili and has added benefits of being very good in many common matchups like affinity and so forth. If you really feel the need to jam more creatures into boards already full of creatures be my guest but it isn't the way I would go in this meta.
I think rather than try to play the midrange version I would rather go farther on the control end of the spectrum of the deck. I played the flash creature version of UWR with restoration angel, vendilion clique and snapcaster mage for quite sometime, and before that I played the geist of saint traft version. I don't think jamming more creatures into a field already full of creatures is the solution. I went to the flash version because the midrange version of the deck gets absolutely wrecked by hand disruption. With all the liliana of the veil, thoughtseize and siege rhino's running around the last thing I want to be doing is trying to jam geists through combat.
Now that the flash creatures fail pretty miserably in the format (clique and mindcensor are trumped by souls/Resto is rather embarrassing when compared to rhino) I feel we need to go in a different direction with the deck. I am a huge fan of the lingering souls version of the deck. Souls shores up a lot of the problems in the deck, it is a great defensive option. It can be used to pressure planeswalkers, it is great vs lili and has added benefits of being very good in many common matchups like affinity and so forth. If you really feel the need to jam more creatures into boards already full of creatures be my guest but it isn't the way I would go in this meta.
Hey f1oyd3, thanks for answering.
I think I'll follow your advice and give one more try adding the Lingering Souls to the deck. Let's see if it works.
What do you think about Serum Visions? When I play UWR Control 50% of my games are "mana screw" - I have no needed lands or I have too much lands (no lands situation is more often). I really sense lack of card advantage with only Electrolyze, Cryptic Command and Sphinx's Revelation and in my meta I can't really play Remand (Hatebears & Slivers with Aether Vial and Cavern of Souls, Scapeshift with Boseiju, Burn, only works well versus RG Tron). I tried 2 Think Twice and 1 Shadow of Doubt but it still no relevant.
I seem to have to post this in every control thread on every site:
anticipation vs telling time:
case 1: good card, good card, good card--telling time better
case 2: good card, bad card, good card--telling time better
case 3: good card, bad card, bad card--telling time worse
case 4: bad card, bad card, bad card--telling time worse.
Telling time is only better in the situations you were already well-off in, anticipation is better when you were in trouble. Hence anticipation gets the nod. Unless you need the top-setting effect (miracle cards?) you should generally prefer the card that is better when you're under pressure or in trouble, and that's anticipation. If you have one or two outs, anticipation digs you deeper anyway, so it's also better in that regard.
Four cases: Bad card, bad card, bad card--telling time is worse because you have to draw one of the three bad cards
Second case: Bad card, Bad card, Good card--Telling time is worse, you have to still draw a bad card.
Third case: Good card, Good card, bad card--telling time is marginally better, you draw two good cards.
Fourth case: Good card, Good card, Good card--Telling time is better, you draw two good cards.
Here's the thing--telling time is better only in cases where you were already coming out OK.
Compare to think twice:
Raw card draw is important, but it costs a ton of mana. Selection for the same cost clearly is in favor of our new impulse. I'd rather have selection and not be dependent on drawing my outs, I'd rather dig harder for them so I can actually cast them when I find them.
We saw Gerard Fabiano use serum visions to sculpt his draws when he played bug at scgbalt. However his deck was very sorcery based, and in UWR we really want to be keeping our mana up til end of turn to represent threats, so tapping out on main phase for visions is bad and having to snap it back on our main is even worse.
I played two think twice for awhile, and while it is a great mana sink I believe the card selection will be more important as mentioned above. I toyed with the idea of azorius charm for awhile but quickly gave up on it. It was just too hard to cast and the other text on the card was more or less irrelevant in many crucial matchups besides maybe infect, which we are already well set up for.
Right now I'm playing one copy of forbidden alchemy with the souls version of the deck. I wouldn't play more than one, but it does a good job of finding what you need while also feeding your snapcasters and dumping more souls in the yard.
I am pretty excited to try out some number of anticipate in the deck, probably 2 copies to start. I think the card could fill the holes we have talked about, I just wish it had more synergy with fetches.
That's a pretty biased analysis, the deck plays around 7 fetches and every time you get to cast Telling Time with an uncracked fetch it's certainly better than Anticipate. Moreover, saying that there are 2 good cards in the top means that you are in a good position is a huge fallacy: what's in the top of your deck has nothing to do with how you are handling the board. If you are behind and there are 2 good cards on top, your chances of coming back are immensely better with Telling Time than with Anticipate. All that "Telling time is only better in the situations you were already well-off in" makes absolutely no sense because you don't know what cards are in the top of your library. I repeat, how good are the cards on top do not affect your position in the game if you are tossing them away.
The only argument that could be made in favor of Anticipate being better is, IMO, proving that the "Good card - Bad card - Bad card" and "Bad card - Bad card - Bad card" configurations are the most probable ones, which is probably the case in a deck as reactive as this. Think about it with examples: against Burn, your only really good cards are Helix, Spell Snare somewhat, and Batterskull/Revelation if you are pretty stabilized (and if you are running them). So that's quite few, and the chances of 2 or more of them being at the top is pretty smaller than the chances of finding one or none. Against Scapeshift, you'll only really want Vendilion, Cryptic and Remand, and again that's around ~10 cards, so the probability of 2 or more of them being at the top is another time smaller than the chances of finding one or none. These are just examples, and this might be the reason why you could consider Anticipate better than Telling Time IN THIS KIND OF DECK. It has nothing to do with if you are already doing good or you are behind.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/599460-myth-realized-mana-deprived-official-spoiler
I don't like it at all. We don't need more win conditions, especially ones that are this bad.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=298966
On Thunderous Wrath
Keon on MODO
Ya as much as I like this card, it really has no place in modern. We already don't play dshpere to not open us up to abrupt decay, and this is the same story.
Modern
TasitwinURB
UWRb ControlUWRB
Death and TaxesWW
Legacy
Death and TaxesWW
Also running 2 Shadow of Doubt. Is that card a meta-call? What is it good against? What does it fall short against? I'm leaning towards more Mana Leak or Lightning Helix in their place but I haven't actually gotten to use the card and see how good/bad it is. I mean, worst case scenario its a cantrip?
I like shadow of doubt if you have access to it, but it can be a tad hard to find. It is really great in a lot of fringe matchups like tron and scapeshift, plus just being very good vs fetches.
I guarantee if you catch an abzan player off guard and mess up their lands not only will it give you an advantage it will alter their play in the coming games.
And honestly when its at its worst, it acts as a bad think twice and can just smooth your draws.
Modern
TasitwinURB
UWRb ControlUWRB
Death and TaxesWW
Legacy
Death and TaxesWW
I'm pretty sure it also stops the Splinter Twin combo if used correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Thanks
- 1st match was an U/G brew with a few Mana Leaks and some flash creatures. I won game 1 with Resto beatdown but lost games 2 and 3 due my Cryptic Commands being countered by Dispels....
- 2nd match was an U/G Infect. My opponent played in the last Pro Tour so it was a very skilled guy. I got completely destroyed in the first game.
After SB, the second game was a lot closer and after cleaning the board with Verdicts and Paths, he was able to draw a Glistener Elf kill me after I deployed an Engineered Explosives but didn't have the mana to activate it.
- 3rd match - Abzan. In this match I could see (in my opinion) the current weakness of the UWR Control. Both games started with Inquisition of Kozilek followed by Thoughtseizes removing all my wraths and counters. I had some good draws but after the hand disruption I was always behind.
I live in Brazil and I believe the current metagame here is too 'creature based' making very hard to play any type of Control specially with the current hand disruption available.
I'm switching to UWR Midrange to check if it is better suited for an agressive meta. I will also try some changes in my current Control list (more Wall of Omens and maybe a few Detention Spheres to slow down my opponent).
Now that the flash creatures fail pretty miserably in the format (clique and mindcensor are trumped by souls/Resto is rather embarrassing when compared to rhino) I feel we need to go in a different direction with the deck. I am a huge fan of the lingering souls version of the deck. Souls shores up a lot of the problems in the deck, it is a great defensive option. It can be used to pressure planeswalkers, it is great vs lili and has added benefits of being very good in many common matchups like affinity and so forth. If you really feel the need to jam more creatures into boards already full of creatures be my guest but it isn't the way I would go in this meta.
Modern
TasitwinURB
UWRb ControlUWRB
Death and TaxesWW
Legacy
Death and TaxesWW
Hey f1oyd3, thanks for answering.
I think I'll follow your advice and give one more try adding the Lingering Souls to the deck. Let's see if it works.
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Electrolyze
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Remand
2 Lightning Helix
1 Steam Vents
4 Flooded Strand
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Mana Leak
1 Spell Snare
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Godless Shrine
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Cryptic Command
1 Electrolyze
3 Island
1 Steam Vents
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Plains
3 Restoration Angel
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Wear // Tear
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Wrath of God
2 Stony Silence
1 Negate
2 Pyroclasm
1 Counterflux
1 Batterskull
1 Celestial Purge
We already have Telling Time. For what do we need this crappy analog?
Because its far better than Telling Time
To quote:
I played two think twice for awhile, and while it is a great mana sink I believe the card selection will be more important as mentioned above. I toyed with the idea of azorius charm for awhile but quickly gave up on it. It was just too hard to cast and the other text on the card was more or less irrelevant in many crucial matchups besides maybe infect, which we are already well set up for.
Right now I'm playing one copy of forbidden alchemy with the souls version of the deck. I wouldn't play more than one, but it does a good job of finding what you need while also feeding your snapcasters and dumping more souls in the yard.
I am pretty excited to try out some number of anticipate in the deck, probably 2 copies to start. I think the card could fill the holes we have talked about, I just wish it had more synergy with fetches.
Modern
TasitwinURB
UWRb ControlUWRB
Death and TaxesWW
Legacy
Death and TaxesWW
The only argument that could be made in favor of Anticipate being better is, IMO, proving that the "Good card - Bad card - Bad card" and "Bad card - Bad card - Bad card" configurations are the most probable ones, which is probably the case in a deck as reactive as this. Think about it with examples: against Burn, your only really good cards are Helix, Spell Snare somewhat, and Batterskull/Revelation if you are pretty stabilized (and if you are running them). So that's quite few, and the chances of 2 or more of them being at the top is pretty smaller than the chances of finding one or none. Against Scapeshift, you'll only really want Vendilion, Cryptic and Remand, and again that's around ~10 cards, so the probability of 2 or more of them being at the top is another time smaller than the chances of finding one or none. These are just examples, and this might be the reason why you could consider Anticipate better than Telling Time IN THIS KIND OF DECK. It has nothing to do with if you are already doing good or you are behind.
This is my decklist:
4 flooded strand
3 arid mesa
1 scalding tarn
2 steam vents
2 hallowed fountain
1 sacred foundry
1 watery grave
1 sulfur falls
2 tectonic edge
2 island
1 plain
1 mountain
1 keranos, god of the storms
3 lingering souls
4 mana leak
3 remand
2 spell snare
2 cryptic command
4 lightning bolt
4 path to exile
3 lightning helix
2 electrolyze
2 supreme verdict
2 sphinx's revelation
what do u think about Lingering Souls?
twitter.com/toffino
MODERN
GRIXIS FAERIES
FISH
NAYA BURN
STANDARD
RABBLE RED
E D H
OCEAN MASTER LORTHOS
Daretti's House of Artifacts AND LAND DESTRUCTION
SIDISI VALUE
There is one that did well in a MTGO Daily event
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/270184#online
4 Snapcaster Mage
Spells
3 Cryptic Command
1 Devour Flesh
4 Electrolyze
4 Esper Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
2 Mystical Teachings
2 Path to Exile
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
Lands
1 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Watery Grave
1 Path to Exile
1 Batterskull
1 Celestial Purge
1 Dispel
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Negate
2 Rest for the Weary
1 Stony Silence
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Thoughtseize
1 Wear // Tear
EDIT: Fixed the sideboard. There were some cards missing there