I've been playing 2 Blood Moon in my sideboard for a while and I think they've earned their spot. My issue with Terrarion is that it's countered by a Chalice on 1, giving us 12 artifacts that are affected. I want the Gemstone Caverns but they have spiked...
I have been fiddling with this deck for some time. After looking at the Shadows over Innistrad spoilers i have noticed that Explosive Apparatus and Expose Evil should be considered after the set comes out.
Also, as the Eldrazi threat is inevitable due to no emergency bannings Dispense Justice should be considered too to survive until the combo turn.
Let me know what You think about these suggestions.
I think Explosive Apparatus is too risky compared to the spellbomb win con.
I saw that list as well and wonder if it's more tuned the meta on MTGO as it has some interesting card choices. The lack of any cantrips and Codex Shredder is interesting. The pilot may have wanted the deck to go off as soon as possible with Edlrazi being rampant and cantrips like Thoughtcast or Serum Visions slow the deck down a bit. That's the only reason I can think of for cutting out the cantrips and the Shredder.
Also 3 Nihil Spellbomb and 4 Defense Grid seems like too much in my opinion.
It seems like more and more people are running Blue Sun's Zenith as the big win-con. I still think Banefire is better here since it is a more viable win-con in the off chance that you fizzle. I've fizzled enough times even with a KCI on board that I would much rather Banefire for 15 than have to BSZ for 45+. Also, against some greedier mana bases, you can try to rush a quick Banefire kill without relying on fully comboing. I get that BSZ will just shuffle itself back in and you can go again later, but I think the kill potential is far better with Banefire.
Why play either when you can play Codex Shredder instead? Then early on in your combo you can stop trying to continue comboing off (risk of fizzle) and just describe a loop with shredder. Remember, that shredder could have been a banefire or BSZ, but now its a full loop. Then you use your words to say "I make infinite mana and draw my deck, and finally mill you infinitely."
Part of it is that people often don't understand what we're doing and explaining the loop 10+ times gets frustrating at large tournaments. Also the uncounterable clause can be relevant. Finally, graveyard hate is a very real thing.
I like banefire because they can't be countered cause is very real. Plus with people fetch/shocking themselves down to 13 or less you don't need to fully combo. Though lately Emrakul has won me more games.
How is "Can't be countered" relevant? They could just counter any other piece, like that FR or OtV. If you use shredder instead of banefire, and shredder gets countered, it can be revived with OtV.
Explaining the loop takes a literal 30 seconds. As you sac everything you say "I have 9+ mana, i use 5 for shredder and 4 for the FR, this loops okay?", then you say "and i'll draw my deck looping this single star", and finally "then i'll use bauble to to loop FR instead, got it? mill you for 1... and again... youre dead." If explaining an obscure deck/loop is a deterent from playing it at competitive REL such that you want an easier win-con, i dont think thats a good enough reason imo.
Graveyard hate turns off the whole "combo" regardless of if we use shredder or banefire. I think the odds of them having the hate you cant deal with and you having the perfect KCI + banefire to kill them with enough damage is less likely than us benefiting from looping with shredder.
Hey everybody. I'm the pilot of those modern league 5-0s. I can't talk that much about all the card choices right now since I have a final essay to finish (edit: should have known better), but I'll make a few quick points now and go more in depth with a tournament report for the MOCS Monthly this Saturday.
On a general note, gn6me is correct that I'm eschewing cantrips for speed right now, since racing matchups are more common than interactive matchups online. I began with 3 Thoughtcasts maindeck, and I strongly dislike them, because they're too often divination when you're stuck on 2 mana and you don't need them when you're comboing. I do intend to test Serum Visions at some point.
On wincons: I experimented briefly with Emrakul, and had Codex Shredder in for 3-4 leagues. As you can see I currently have just a single BSZ as the kill. I like that it beats infinite life (unlike banefire) and the Codex Shredder/Pyrite Spellbomb kills take too many seconds online, where you can't use loops. However, the biggest advantage to it is being able to fire it at yourself for a modest 4-8ish cards when you have mana but no sunrise effects (or even for 2-4 at the end of their turn in slower more disruptive matchups). That's the reason I'd play it over shredder even in paper. Counterspells aren't much of a concern for a finisher since opponents will usually use them on KCI/sunrise effects much earlier in the turn (as they should). One interaction that comes up is vs Living End, where they can side in Ricochet Trap, but you can beat that by drawing your deck, using Conjurer's Bauble to loop Faith's Reward, and Ghost Quartering them to 0 land. They'll float mana, but you can just go to your postcombat main phase and kill them with Bauble+Reward+BSZ. This requires either that you start with a Ghost Quarter in play or a free land drop, which isn't too hard. Similar tactics work vs counters in game 1 or vs Angel's Grace (vs Grace is pretty tricky, since they'll draw triple SSG+Lightning Storm+some blue Pacts off your BSZ, but if you're careful to have 4 Reward's in your hand before you BSZ them and you don't do anything until they try to Storm you still win). My largest issue with the wincon suite right now is vs Eldrazi, where if you're unlucky enough to get it Thought-Knot Seered you just lose. That's what the Pyrite Spellbomb in the board is for, although I'm thinking of swapping it for a Nephalia Drownyard.
Terrarion: Terrarion is pretty awful to return to a sunrise effect when you don't have a KCI, but it's one of your best cards when you do (along with Wellspring and Star). As a 1 cmc artifact it helps make your Opals more consistent, which is pretty important for racing people with turn 3 kills. That said, it's the worst card in the deck along with Elsewhere Flask and Alchemist's Vial, so those are the 6 slots I usually look to sideboard out (though not all 6).
4 Grid was two many -- I cut 2 for one more Needle, which was overperforming, and 1 Pact of Negation, which is a test card that I don't expect to stay. I also cut the sided Thoughtcast for an Ensnaring Bridge, which is a test card that I'm more optimistic about since you can reshape for it and it buys a lot of time vs certain decks.
3 Nihil I've actually been very happy with. I have them because Living End was big online (to fight Eldrazi), but I'm been happy having them vs other random GY based decks since they don't disrupt your ability to cycle through your deck much.
Finally, the manabase: Seachrome Coast is purely for budget reasons. It is not competitively correct, and I'll have 0 for the MOCS, instead running some combination of Adarkar Wastes, Flooded Strand, and Glimervoid (which makes B for Nihil).
Edit: I went to 18 land when I only had two Opals, but I prefer 17 with 4. Radiant Fountain has been pretty decent, so I think I'm likely to keep it as a 1 of.
Edit 2: Unfortunately, as a result of said final paper, it seems quite unlikely that I'll actually get to play in the MOCS. I will be grinding some leagues over spring break though, and I'll provide some reports for those. As far as SOI, I intend to test 1-2 Vessel of Volatility as a way to go off quicker, though I don't have high hopes.
Hey gogghi. Just wanted to let you know that I saw your comment and I plan to include what my 7 was, whether I kept, and (if interesting) why, in any league reports I do. I'm too busy binging Daredevil with the family to talk much about mulliganimg in in the abstract at the moment, but if you have any specific hands that you thought were interesting I'd be happy to share my thoughts.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Well, KCI, Faith, 5 basics is terrible. KCI, Faith, Citadel, Citadel, Quarter, Quarter, Glimmervoid is about the best you can do with KCI Faith and 5 land, but is also not good enough against pretty much anyone.
But something like KCI, Faith, 2xBloom, Citadel, Quarter, Reshape is a fine hand, since you have a good shot of going off on turn 4.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
I personally run both codex shredder and Banefire because both help cover different situations. Some times I establish the loop and everything is peachy. But other times I can just straitup cast Banefire for 20 and not risk digging for the loop. A 1-of Banefire doesn't affect too much besides having more wincons.
I've been playing around with this deck a little bit and I'm surprised that Laboratory Maniac hasn't been seen much play as a victory condition. It beats infinite life, seems faster to execute online than Pyrite Spellbomb, and dodges most commonly-played cards that stop other win conditions (Leyline, Bridge, etc), can be recurred with Codex Shredder if they counter it, and you can win without ever giving them priority with Chromatic Sphere--as Sphere is a mana ability that cannot be responded to.
I think Explosive Apparatus is too risky compared to the spellbomb win con.
What in the world? Is it killing by decking the other person?
Yes and I love it.
EDIT: I'm just bad, got it I think
I just feel like if you're going to run the lands you should just play Tron. It's more fun when you win the other way too.
Also 3 Nihil Spellbomb and 4 Defense Grid seems like too much in my opinion.
Explaining the loop takes a literal 30 seconds. As you sac everything you say "I have 9+ mana, i use 5 for shredder and 4 for the FR, this loops okay?", then you say "and i'll draw my deck looping this single star", and finally "then i'll use bauble to to loop FR instead, got it? mill you for 1... and again... youre dead." If explaining an obscure deck/loop is a deterent from playing it at competitive REL such that you want an easier win-con, i dont think thats a good enough reason imo.
Graveyard hate turns off the whole "combo" regardless of if we use shredder or banefire. I think the odds of them having the hate you cant deal with and you having the perfect KCI + banefire to kill them with enough damage is less likely than us benefiting from looping with shredder.
On a general note, gn6me is correct that I'm eschewing cantrips for speed right now, since racing matchups are more common than interactive matchups online. I began with 3 Thoughtcasts maindeck, and I strongly dislike them, because they're too often divination when you're stuck on 2 mana and you don't need them when you're comboing. I do intend to test Serum Visions at some point.
On wincons: I experimented briefly with Emrakul, and had Codex Shredder in for 3-4 leagues. As you can see I currently have just a single BSZ as the kill. I like that it beats infinite life (unlike banefire) and the Codex Shredder/Pyrite Spellbomb kills take too many seconds online, where you can't use loops. However, the biggest advantage to it is being able to fire it at yourself for a modest 4-8ish cards when you have mana but no sunrise effects (or even for 2-4 at the end of their turn in slower more disruptive matchups). That's the reason I'd play it over shredder even in paper. Counterspells aren't much of a concern for a finisher since opponents will usually use them on KCI/sunrise effects much earlier in the turn (as they should). One interaction that comes up is vs Living End, where they can side in Ricochet Trap, but you can beat that by drawing your deck, using Conjurer's Bauble to loop Faith's Reward, and Ghost Quartering them to 0 land. They'll float mana, but you can just go to your postcombat main phase and kill them with Bauble+Reward+BSZ. This requires either that you start with a Ghost Quarter in play or a free land drop, which isn't too hard. Similar tactics work vs counters in game 1 or vs Angel's Grace (vs Grace is pretty tricky, since they'll draw triple SSG+Lightning Storm+some blue Pacts off your BSZ, but if you're careful to have 4 Reward's in your hand before you BSZ them and you don't do anything until they try to Storm you still win). My largest issue with the wincon suite right now is vs Eldrazi, where if you're unlucky enough to get it Thought-Knot Seered you just lose. That's what the Pyrite Spellbomb in the board is for, although I'm thinking of swapping it for a Nephalia Drownyard.
Terrarion: Terrarion is pretty awful to return to a sunrise effect when you don't have a KCI, but it's one of your best cards when you do (along with Wellspring and Star). As a 1 cmc artifact it helps make your Opals more consistent, which is pretty important for racing people with turn 3 kills. That said, it's the worst card in the deck along with Elsewhere Flask and Alchemist's Vial, so those are the 6 slots I usually look to sideboard out (though not all 6).
4 Grid was two many -- I cut 2 for one more Needle, which was overperforming, and 1 Pact of Negation, which is a test card that I don't expect to stay. I also cut the sided Thoughtcast for an Ensnaring Bridge, which is a test card that I'm more optimistic about since you can reshape for it and it buys a lot of time vs certain decks.
3 Nihil I've actually been very happy with. I have them because Living End was big online (to fight Eldrazi), but I'm been happy having them vs other random GY based decks since they don't disrupt your ability to cycle through your deck much.
Finally, the manabase: Seachrome Coast is purely for budget reasons. It is not competitively correct, and I'll have 0 for the MOCS, instead running some combination of Adarkar Wastes, Flooded Strand, and Glimervoid (which makes B for Nihil).
Edit: I went to 18 land when I only had two Opals, but I prefer 17 with 4. Radiant Fountain has been pretty decent, so I think I'm likely to keep it as a 1 of.
Edit 2: Unfortunately, as a result of said final paper, it seems quite unlikely that I'll actually get to play in the MOCS. I will be grinding some leagues over spring break though, and I'll provide some reports for those. As far as SOI, I intend to test 1-2 Vessel of Volatility as a way to go off quicker, though I don't have high hopes.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
But something like KCI, Faith, 2xBloom, Citadel, Quarter, Reshape is a fine hand, since you have a good shot of going off on turn 4.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
My cube thread!
You can always draw your whole deck and find Echoing Truth for whatever hate cards they have. Hate should target the setup, not the wincon.