The Seek part will rarely be used against the enchantment actually. and you can't fuse hide//seek.
here's why I'd play it:
- It can also Hide a wurmcoil engine, opponent won't get his 3/3's
- Hide any bothersome enchantment, most of all white leylines
- the fact that it get's put on bottom or shuffled back in rarely matters: they won't draw it again next turn (or not very likely) so it's basically Exile.
- Seek can get combo pieces (unburial rites, reanimation targets, bullet cards such as pyrite spellbomb in eggs)
- Seek can get you some life instant speed to buy you 1 extra turn/draw step. it's rarely used, but your opponent will never see it coming
basically: it's one of the most versatile cards besides rakdos charm for our deck.
as for rain of Gore:
I play 3 lighnting helix MD, 2 rain SB and 1 skullcrack SB. so that's any easy switch for lifegain decks.
vs decks that rely on lifegain purely from baloths/kitchen finks if they play any other CITP cards, I use the 2 Torpor orb instead of the Rain of gore. but rain of gore is a concession to the existence of Soulsisters and the white token deck with auriok champions.
Hmm... I didn't think of it that way. I may run to the game store and try to pick those cards up with my 25% off coupon.
Thanks for clarifying as to why they are good cards to have.
Really guys, when I see all of your decklists not running 4 copies of Shard Volley, I think you deserve not to topdeck the last 3 damage you need.
Why on earth would you all miss out on another Lightning Bolt. I run 18(!!) Lands and am still happy if I end up with 2 of it. You cant take your lands to game 2
I do see it as another lightning bolt, but the cost of a land can end up being a bad idea. My fear is the opponent destroying my last land and thus leave me open to whatever they have. I am still going to buy it and play test it, because its like what 25 cents at the local store?
The Rain of Gore sounds interesting though as a sideboard. I am still up in the air on it though, since I already possess the Leyline of Punishments.
As for Hide // Seek I am thinking of removing Vexing Susher and replace it with a set of 3 of this card and still keep Wear//Tear in my sideboard as well. I want to increase my odds of unleashing leyline of sanctity hate. The card got between me and the top 5 at the last Modern tournament at my LGS. I was so annoyed that I had no way of responding to it.
Since I cannot afford the fetch lands (and they haven't helped as much as I thought they would during play testing), I decided to configure my final iteration as this for now:
Sideboard:15 May Switch to this:
3 Wear // Tear Same
3 Rakdos Charm Same
3 Torpor Orb Same
3 Vexing Shusher 3 Hide // Seek
3 Leyline of Punishment 3 Rain of Gore
Really guys, when I see all of your decklists not running 4 copies of Shard Volley, I think you deserve not to topdeck the last 3 damage you need.
Why on earth would you all miss out on another Lightning Bolt. I run 18(!!) Lands and am still happy if I end up with 2 of it. You cant take your lands to game 2
If you feel they are so good, could you please suggest something for me to cut? I've spent almost as much time as I could trying to figure out how to make the list better and with school starting on Tuesday, I don't have a whole lot left.
Since I cannot afford the fetch lands (and they haven't helped as much as I thought they would during play testing)
I've found that there are a bunch of cards that never seem to do as much as is advertised, yet they are required for the most optimal build, like that single Odious Trow in my Legacy SI deck (does everything and nothing at the same time). Fortunately, we know you aren't going for that perfect build right now so I guess this doesn't matter too much to you. I suppose this is something for us all to think about more than anything. Sure, let's go with that.
The "GP" deck you are referring to is actually the GPT deck. It's the one I took to the trial and am trying to fix. I think I'll try it without the Vexing Devils since I still need the Rakdos Charms somewhere.
EDIT: So the Volleys were required literally the first game I used them in.
You might want to run the Searing Blazes mainboard.
How many of them? - I don't know. I am currently testing 2 Searing Blazes and 1 Thunderous Wrath for the lulz but might return to 3 Blazes for my GP deck.
Somehow I want the one Wrath in my deck because it allows you to instantly kill your opponent much faster if you miracle topdeck it.
I know the numbers that it is more likely not to see it and it sucks on your starting hand but somehow Standard runs 20 Lands with 4 Hellriders and still succeeds.
I will test this out on tomorrows Modern Tournament, then I will probably cut it.
Let me know how the Tournament goes. There are no Modern Tournaments in my area that I am aware of because the only 1 I'm close to stopped getting people when they found out about EDH tournaments on the same day.
I don't know if Searing Blaze or Rakdos Charm is better MB since I don't know how creature heavy the GP meta is. Rakdos Charm seems to do almost as well as Searing Blaze in the matchups where we want Searing Blaze but perhaps that comes from a fairly limited perspective.
Before the tournament I want to ask y'all about the necessity of something like Rain of Gore or Leyline of Punishment as maybe a 2 of in the sideboard against the current meta full of oozes and Deathrite Shamans and Kitchen Finks. I playtested a ton now against decks running all 3 of them and my playset Skullcrack mainboard cant handle it.
Ideas?
So, there are two options. One is to play catchalls that have some marginal help versus lifegain and are also good versus a variety of other strategies. A good example of this would be Torpor Orb. Torpor orb is good versus splinter twin, pod, finks, obstinate baloth, and helps your own vexing devils. The other option is to overload against a certain deck with targeted sb cards. Because the modern meta is so diverse, I recommend the former.
While torpor orb is essential because of all the tier 1 etbs, It does nothing to stop deathrite, scavenging ooze or wurmcoil. Personally I think that 4x searing blaze is enough to stop the first two, and wurmcoil really only sees play in tron. Sometimes tron has a t3 wurmcoil and you lose. I still dont think its worth siding in anything just for tron besides some molten rains that you want in board for scapeshift and uwr anyways.
Rain of gore is a pretty fantastic card. It stuffs deathrite, finks, baloth, lightning helix, ajani and sphinx's rev. You will never ever play more than 4 rounds without seeing multiples of those cards. If you can find room in your board i would definitely play the rain of gore, but keep in mind that torpor orb is probably slightly more important.
My main sb advice is to load up on cards that are good against the largest range of decks
My current sb looks like this:
4x Rakdos Charm (the quintessential catchall. Good vs. twin, pod. affinity, living end, tin fin etc.)
3x molten rain (scapeshift, tron, colonade, jund with bad mana/manlands)
2x Torpor Orb (finks, pod, splintertwin)
2x lightning helix (all aggro)
2x warpriest of thune (theres lots of leylines in my meta)
1x Tempest of Light (boggle, leylines)
1x volcanic Fallout (GosT, ok versus twin/pod.)
I would like more rain of gore, helixes (theres lots of aggro around) and/or artifact hate (esp shattering spree for affinity). I think that I can cut the volcanic fallout as I havent seen the geists around lately. I also currently play 4x searing blaze main, but that's just for local meta. I might not do that at a GP/PTQ.
While thunderous wrath + magma jet is pretty cool, thunderous wrath in your opener is basically a mulligan. We aim to kill on turn 4-5, so that means we see 7 cards in our opener and 4-5 cards drawn over the course of the game (and if you're on the draw you draw a card before you have a land out). By this logic, the thunderous wrath is more likely to give you a virtual mulligan than to net you +2 damage over a comparable 1 mana 3 damage spell.
I've really liked searing blaze main. With the demise of Eggs, there are now 0 creatureless decks in the format (though many play 4-8 targettable creatures, scapesift plays sakura and titan) so every matchup lets searing blaze be a searing spear to the dome with a land drop. Lands are the most common card in our deck, so the landfall aspect really isnt a problem. Sometimes you have to mainphase a searing blaze when you would rather leave up a skullcrack. Far more often searing blaze is a walking 2 for 1 that buys you time while lowering your opponents life total. I highly recommend 2-4 main with the rest in the board. Searing blaze is the best card in your deck versus other aggro.
@ Kitten: Rakdos charm is a fantastic sb card, but its very much a sb card. It is dead against a fairly large portion of the metagame (scapeshift, not great vs. UWR) while being fantastic against another portion of the metagame. We can't afford to play dead cards. which makes Rakdos Charm a quintessential SB card.
On a side note, there are quite a few trans people that game frequently in Portland OR. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more of yall on MTGSalvation than you think.
Update: The list I would take to a gp (not what I play for my local meta(semi budget mana base, I don't have the tarns)):
YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
There aren't alot of GosT in the meta currently so I suggest you gut the volcanic fallout. That being said, the law of karmic probability states that as soon as you cut the Fallout you'll play against GosT, so you should probably leave them in just so you dont play against it.
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YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
There aren't alot of GosT in the meta currently so I suggest you gut the volcanic fallout. That being said, the law of karmic probability states that as soon as you cut the Fallout you'll play against GosT, so you should probably leave them in just so you dont play against it.
What do you guys think about the new "hull breach" at istant speed who gives them 2 damage?
Yea, it's green, but most of us play 4 shamans and a stomping, and this card can deal with enchantments as well as artifact (although worst than Smash to Smithereens) and that, to me, is a big thing, since it can free space for other cards in SB...
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The Father of Machines will free these creatures from the shackles of their imperfect flesh. All glory to Phyrexia!
What do you guys think about the new "hull breach" at istant speed who gives them 2 damage?
Yea, it's green, but most of us play 4 shamans and a stomping, and this card can deal with enchantments as well as artifact (although worst than Smash to Smithereens) and that, to me, is a big thing, since it can free space for other cards in SB...
Against leyline I like it, however, against Boggle, I would much prefer to have a Back to Nature. I think it's better to have a catch all card as opposed to one that is rather specific. Other than that I completely agree with what you say about speed, damage and colours.
Yeah you guys are right, but I have a point (I think). This card actually does DAMAGE destroying his or her leyline, none of our spells actually does dmg while destroying enchantments. Furthermore, it's true that Hide//Seek can do something even without artifacts or enchantments on the board, but this card can turn an artifact in damage and a leyline in damage, which, I believe, is quite good in our deck, since a turn without damage (even used well, to destroy the leyline or the plaque) is a "lost" turn
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The Father of Machines will free these creatures from the shackles of their imperfect flesh. All glory to Phyrexia!
The true power of the new card will be seen in playtesting. As for now I am convinced that Hide (Hide/Seek) is the better alternative since it can be used for many different things AND is the only good solution that can handle Wurmcoil Engine.
Totally agree, I'm just saying that the card deserves playtesting Then, we'll see if it's effective or not
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The Father of Machines will free these creatures from the shackles of their imperfect flesh. All glory to Phyrexia!
The issue here is the question how many such cards do you run? I think keeping the land count as low as possible is the right way to avoid having bad top decks.
As for the 2 Searing Blazes I run, I can tell that I also won games with the one damage mode and also tend to keep Land cards unplayed on my hand, once I reached about 3 landdrops. This is also good to avoid nasty discard effects, just like the one from Liliana of the Veil.
It important to keep in mind that you don't need to scry land to get value even if you just scry away one of your own creature on turn 3+ your saving yourself a turn where you would of done nothing.
I'll be testing 2x Magma Jet in an 18 land list so I'll tell you how it goes when I'm done. (18 lands = 30% of the deck, 12 creatures = 20% of the deck, thus you have >50% chance of gaining value from Magma Jet)
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Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
Havn't you been reading the thread? The current preferred choice seems to be Hide // Seek , I like to use 2x Hide // Seek and 1x Back to Nature only because Boogles is a deck on MTGO...
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Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
Havn't you been reading the thread? The current preferred choice seems to be Hide // Seek , I like to use 2x Hide // Seek and 1x Back to Nature only because Boogles is a deck on MTGO...
Hmm... I didn't think of it that way. I may run to the game store and try to pick those cards up with my 25% off coupon.
Thanks for clarifying as to why they are good cards to have.
I do see it as another lightning bolt, but the cost of a land can end up being a bad idea. My fear is the opponent destroying my last land and thus leave me open to whatever they have. I am still going to buy it and play test it, because its like what 25 cents at the local store?
The Rain of Gore sounds interesting though as a sideboard. I am still up in the air on it though, since I already possess the Leyline of Punishments.
As for Hide // Seek I am thinking of removing Vexing Susher and replace it with a set of 3 of this card and still keep Wear//Tear in my sideboard as well. I want to increase my odds of unleashing leyline of sanctity hate. The card got between me and the top 5 at the last Modern tournament at my LGS. I was so annoyed that I had no way of responding to it.
Since I cannot afford the fetch lands (and they haven't helped as much as I thought they would during play testing), I decided to configure my final iteration as this for now:
Creatures:12
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
Spells:28
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Helix -> may switch to 4 Shard Volley
4 Skullcrack
4 Rift Bolt
Lands:20
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Dragonskull Summit
2 Clifftop Retreat
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sacred Foundry
Sideboard:15 May Switch to this:
3 Wear // Tear Same
3 Rakdos Charm Same
3 Torpor Orb Same
3 Vexing Shusher 3 Hide // Seek
3 Leyline of Punishment 3 Rain of Gore
If you feel they are so good, could you please suggest something for me to cut? I've spent almost as much time as I could trying to figure out how to make the list better and with school starting on Tuesday, I don't have a whole lot left.
EDIT:
I've found that there are a bunch of cards that never seem to do as much as is advertised, yet they are required for the most optimal build, like that single Odious Trow in my Legacy SI deck (does everything and nothing at the same time). Fortunately, we know you aren't going for that perfect build right now so I guess this doesn't matter too much to you. I suppose this is something for us all to think about more than anything. Sure, let's go with that.
EDH
Maelstrom Wanderer
The "GP" deck you are referring to is actually the GPT deck. It's the one I took to the trial and am trying to fix. I think I'll try it without the Vexing Devils since I still need the Rakdos Charms somewhere.
EDIT: So the Volleys were required literally the first game I used them in.
EDH
Maelstrom Wanderer
Let me know how the Tournament goes. There are no Modern Tournaments in my area that I am aware of because the only 1 I'm close to stopped getting people when they found out about EDH tournaments on the same day.
I don't know if Searing Blaze or Rakdos Charm is better MB since I don't know how creature heavy the GP meta is. Rakdos Charm seems to do almost as well as Searing Blaze in the matchups where we want Searing Blaze but perhaps that comes from a fairly limited perspective.
Also, thanks for the help.
EDH
Maelstrom Wanderer
So, there are two options. One is to play catchalls that have some marginal help versus lifegain and are also good versus a variety of other strategies. A good example of this would be Torpor Orb. Torpor orb is good versus splinter twin, pod, finks, obstinate baloth, and helps your own vexing devils. The other option is to overload against a certain deck with targeted sb cards. Because the modern meta is so diverse, I recommend the former.
While torpor orb is essential because of all the tier 1 etbs, It does nothing to stop deathrite, scavenging ooze or wurmcoil. Personally I think that 4x searing blaze is enough to stop the first two, and wurmcoil really only sees play in tron. Sometimes tron has a t3 wurmcoil and you lose. I still dont think its worth siding in anything just for tron besides some molten rains that you want in board for scapeshift and uwr anyways.
Rain of gore is a pretty fantastic card. It stuffs deathrite, finks, baloth, lightning helix, ajani and sphinx's rev. You will never ever play more than 4 rounds without seeing multiples of those cards. If you can find room in your board i would definitely play the rain of gore, but keep in mind that torpor orb is probably slightly more important.
My main sb advice is to load up on cards that are good against the largest range of decks
My current sb looks like this:
4x Rakdos Charm (the quintessential catchall. Good vs. twin, pod. affinity, living end, tin fin etc.)
3x molten rain (scapeshift, tron, colonade, jund with bad mana/manlands)
2x Torpor Orb (finks, pod, splintertwin)
2x lightning helix (all aggro)
2x warpriest of thune (theres lots of leylines in my meta)
1x Tempest of Light (boggle, leylines)
1x volcanic Fallout (GosT, ok versus twin/pod.)
I would like more rain of gore, helixes (theres lots of aggro around) and/or artifact hate (esp shattering spree for affinity). I think that I can cut the volcanic fallout as I havent seen the geists around lately. I also currently play 4x searing blaze main, but that's just for local meta. I might not do that at a GP/PTQ.
While thunderous wrath + magma jet is pretty cool, thunderous wrath in your opener is basically a mulligan. We aim to kill on turn 4-5, so that means we see 7 cards in our opener and 4-5 cards drawn over the course of the game (and if you're on the draw you draw a card before you have a land out). By this logic, the thunderous wrath is more likely to give you a virtual mulligan than to net you +2 damage over a comparable 1 mana 3 damage spell.
I've really liked searing blaze main. With the demise of Eggs, there are now 0 creatureless decks in the format (though many play 4-8 targettable creatures, scapesift plays sakura and titan) so every matchup lets searing blaze be a searing spear to the dome with a land drop. Lands are the most common card in our deck, so the landfall aspect really isnt a problem. Sometimes you have to mainphase a searing blaze when you would rather leave up a skullcrack. Far more often searing blaze is a walking 2 for 1 that buys you time while lowering your opponents life total. I highly recommend 2-4 main with the rest in the board. Searing blaze is the best card in your deck versus other aggro.
@ Kitten: Rakdos charm is a fantastic sb card, but its very much a sb card. It is dead against a fairly large portion of the metagame (scapeshift, not great vs. UWR) while being fantastic against another portion of the metagame. We can't afford to play dead cards. which makes Rakdos Charm a quintessential SB card.
On a side note, there are quite a few trans people that game frequently in Portland OR. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more of yall on MTGSalvation than you think.
Update: The list I would take to a gp (not what I play for my local meta(semi budget mana base, I don't have the tarns)):
4x deathrite Shaman
4x vexing devil
4x lightning bolt
4x bump in the night
4x lava spike
4x rift bolt
2x Shard Volley
4x skullcrack
4x boros charm
3x searing blaze
1x Lightning helix
2x blood crypt
2x sacred foundry
4x arid mesa
1x scalding tarn
1x marsh flats
1x city of Brass
1x gemstone mine
2x mountain
60 cards
3x molten rain
2x Torpor Orb
2x Rain of Gore
1x Searing Blaze
1x lightning helix
1x war priest of thune
1x Tempest of Light
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
MTGO is full of delver decks now.
Yea, it's green, but most of us play 4 shamans and a stomping, and this card can deal with enchantments as well as artifact (although worst than Smash to Smithereens) and that, to me, is a big thing, since it can free space for other cards in SB...
Level 2 Judge
Against leyline I like it, however, against Boggle, I would much prefer to have a Back to Nature. I think it's better to have a catch all card as opposed to one that is rather specific. Other than that I completely agree with what you say about speed, damage and colours.
EDH
Maelstrom Wanderer
Level 2 Judge
Totally agree, I'm just saying that the card deserves playtesting
Level 2 Judge
04x Goblin Guide
04x Death Rite Shaman
00x Searing Blaze
00x Lands
2x Magma Jet could do wonders for the top-deck
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
It important to keep in mind that you don't need to scry land to get value even if you just scry away one of your own creature on turn 3+ your saving yourself a turn where you would of done nothing.
I'll be testing 2x Magma Jet in an 18 land list so I'll tell you how it goes when I'm done. (18 lands = 30% of the deck, 12 creatures = 20% of the deck, thus you have >50% chance of gaining value from Magma Jet)
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
Havn't you been reading the thread? The current preferred choice seems to be Hide // Seek , I like to use 2x Hide // Seek and 1x Back to Nature only because Boogles is a deck on MTGO...
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
RIP Eggs
My Trade Thread
Thanks. What if I'm only in Red?
Level 2 Judge
What about 4 city of brass run main - enchantment removal sideboard. Or should I just ignore it.