I just wanted to have some advices for the burn-jund matchup. There is a lot of Jund (many variations, but mostly the same) at my LGS. As I see it, Game 1 is a very easy game, but game 2 and 3 get pretty hard. I have a hard time to close the match and am likely to lose it.
Guys what do you think about mono red burn? Do you still think that it's okay to make a burn deck without the splashes
It's viable, but definitely not the best option. The splashes give you much more powerful spells than flying solo on Red. Black gives you Bump, White gives you Boros Charm and real sideboard cards, and Green gives you Atarka's Command and Destructive Revelry. You'd be doing yourself a disservice to not splash for any of those options.
Blood Moon seems terrible in most current burn lists. You don't want to run basic Plains or Forest, so you turn off your own ability to cast Boros Charm, Atarka's Command, Destructive Revelry, Lightning Helix, Path to Exile, and Kor Firewalker. Not that you are likely to run all those at once, but chances are you want some of them all the time and each of them some of the time.
any thoughts for sanctimony ? im considering it since I don't really want to crack double foundry for kor firewalks... thoughts?
It's no good and an opposing Destructive Revelry can easily deal with it. The good thing about Firewalker is that its a creature with protection, that can swing or block effectively against the mirror.
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Modern Decks:WRGThe Colors of FireGRW || CUBRAge of Ultron (Affinity - Under Construction)RBUC
Kor Firewalker is the best option in the mirror, by a long shot--not even close.
The problem of double cracking doesn't actually pan out in games that often. If we are in the mirror and have Firewalker in the opener, our game plan that game changes drastically. We have the long game, and therefore become the control deck. Unless they are on the play with Goblin Guide, it is not necessary to fetch untapped for the first white source.
I uave ad the deck for some time, buqt i haven't commitee to plying it for more than a few weeks in a row. With GP Pittsburgh coming up, I decided that I want burn as an option. Last night i went 3-1 (only losing to twin). I just have a few questions:
According to mtggoldfish, it looks like the Nacatl version is the accepted version now. Last night I ran the naya version and it felt good. Is the nacatl version the acceoted "best version" or are the numbers somewhat skewed?
I was considering trying out the straight RW version to have an edge in the mirror. Has anyone tried this with success?
Thanks!
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EDH RGOmnath, Locus of ManaRG URThe Locust godUR
Modern UWMiraclesUW
Legacy BGIce Station Zebra (Living Fins)BG UBRGrixis ControlUBR RGLandsRG
According to mtggoldfish, it looks like the Nacatl version is the accepted version now. Last night I ran the naya version and it felt good. Is the nacatl version the acceoted "best version" or are the numbers somewhat skewed?
Read over the last, I don't know, 30 pages and there's plenty of discussion of Nacatl.
Nacatl is the new hotness, certainly, and people are playing it online a lot. However, it's not a card that Burn really wants. It's a card for a creature heavy deck, which we are not. People are playing it, but it is not the accepted "best version" at all. Top deck Nacatl on T4 and you lose the game. Top deck a Burn spell and you win. You only want Nacatl on T1, and after that it's junk. You're likely paying 4-6 life to get a 3/3 that gets bolted/pathed/decayed before doing anything. It's not worth it. People are winning on MTGO with Nacatl Burn on the back of being Burn, not the back of Nacatl.
How do you Beat Burn? Once I got turn 1 Goblin guide, turn 2 Goblin guide + bump in the night, turn 3 Boros Charm and Lava Spike...
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I have not played competitive burn for a while but I have always favoured Vexing Devil over Goblin Guides. I have seen Guides lose close to as much as they have won with the free land draw for a player. I have no statistics but a single guide on the board seems weak.
Strength of vexing devil is that it usually does 4 straight away if the player does not have removal. If they do have removal it stays and they are forces to use it as it is a large threat.
T1 VD, T2 Swift spear and bolt is harder on a player than T1 GG T2 Swift spear and bolt.
Just my take. If price of goblin guide is too high and no reprint in BFZ, Vexing Devil is a valid replacement. Will get a reprint in MM 2017 for sure.
The thing is, goblin guide has the potential to be better than vexing devil. let's say they have a bolt or path for our turn one devil or guide but we are on the play. With guide we get 2 damage in and we get information on what deck they are playing that might be relevant. With devil, he sits there until their turn to bolt/path it w/o the devil doing anything but at least the goblin played the role of a shock unlike the devil. Now let's say that our devil/goblin is uncontested for 2-3 turns. The guide will get in a minimum of 4 damage and so will the devil but the guide stays on board and the devil is just fuel for lavamancer but it doesn't matter since you shouldn't be activating lavamancer that early ideally. In the end, we run guide because devil is just worse than goblin guide no matter if they hit a land or not.
I have not played competitive burn for a while but I have always favoured Vexing Devil over Goblin Guides. I have seen Guides lose close to as much as they have won with the free land draw for a player. I have no statistics but a single guide on the board seems weak.
Strength of vexing devil is that it usually does 4 straight away if the player does not have removal. If they do have removal it stays and they are forces to use it as it is a large threat.
T1 VD, T2 Swift spear and bolt is harder on a player than T1 GG T2 Swift spear and bolt.
Just my take. If price of goblin guide is too high and no reprint in BFZ, Vexing Devil is a valid replacement. Will get a reprint in MM 2017 for sure.
I favor Vexing Devil more then Swiftspear because the Devil plays better with Eidolon (but I usually Legacy.) I don't think Goblin Guide would be a major disadvantage, even in modern. Although I never liked the idea of playing 3 colors for burn and I wonder if 3 colors and playing fetchlands with shocklands increase the disadvantage. I've been reading modern burn (partly because I'm thinking of building a deck for the format) but I would think a mono red would work better or at least keep the deck with 2 colors (my opinion)
Sorry, I have doubts Goblin Guide is going to be reprinted. I also think once it's determined it will not be reprinted the price will increase for a second time. Then it might be reprinted in another Modern Masters set. (Ok I'm guessing but I think Goblin Guide and Swiftspear is too aggressive for standard, especially when the set seemed to be pimping 4cc+ creatures) [It might be smarter to get a playset now before they become Goyfs]
Could Vexing Devil replace Goblin Guide? I'm not sure and it depends on how you play the creature. I usually play my Vexing Devils on turn 3. [[Turn 1 is Goblin Guide or Rift Bolt. Turn 2 is Eidolon (if hes not in my hand, it's a bolt/searing card). ]]
If you guys knew the epic arguments over vexing devil versus goblin guide; you would be shocked. Don't expect to much help in that area of understanding as many have left with bad feelings over it.
Goblin guide is consistently better. Key word "consistently". Vexing devil gives your opponents an option which is usually bad for you. Red players don't give options besides scoop or play. Now if you play both, I guess it's fine, but other creatures should be considered over vexing devil. If you can't find goblin guide; go for the vexing question of whether you opponent will choose an outcome that favors you.
I think Twin recently made T8 in Legacy. The deck is crazy good, period. Personally, following that link, I think they are reading their own charts wrong. If the deck is still a decent portion of the format, less people are playing it and more people are making Day 2 w/it than decks higher up, then it should be above them. They're combining the online, paper and day 2 percentages and determining tiers by that and it doesn't really work quite that way. I would weight the Day 2 numbers more highly, since the first 2 categories are just who is showing up. The people in Day 2 have a chance at cash.
Specifically it is the U/R Twin that took a big nosedive. Everyone has jumped onto Grixis Twin b/c it is generally stronger and more versatile than the U/R variant. Temur Twin had a way better showing than U/R too. Combine the 3 and you have 9.5% of the meta, 8.7% online, 9% paper, 10.9% Day 2. Twin, as an overall archetype, beats the pants off every other archetype from that list.
It always amazes how the topic always tends to return to Vexing Devil. The card has never been good, does not turn up in high level lists, and yet still gets a lot of people wanting to try it. It's not as if it was printed last week with Origins. If Wizards intended to make a seductive trap card that in reality is unplayable, then they hit a home run with Vexing Devil.
I just wanted to have some advices for the burn-jund matchup. There is a lot of Jund (many variations, but mostly the same) at my LGS. As I see it, Game 1 is a very easy game, but game 2 and 3 get pretty hard. I have a hard time to close the match and am likely to lose it.
Also, i wanted you opinion on blood moon in burn?
Once answered, we can go back to our discussion wild nacatl.
Thanks
It's viable, but definitely not the best option. The splashes give you much more powerful spells than flying solo on Red. Black gives you Bump, White gives you Boros Charm and real sideboard cards, and Green gives you Atarka's Command and Destructive Revelry. You'd be doing yourself a disservice to not splash for any of those options.
It is viable but not that competitive. Without the color splashes, you won't have access to good sidebard cards found in either W or G or even B.
It's no good and an opposing Destructive Revelry can easily deal with it. The good thing about Firewalker is that its a creature with protection, that can swing or block effectively against the mirror.
The problem of double cracking doesn't actually pan out in games that often. If we are in the mirror and have Firewalker in the opener, our game plan that game changes drastically. We have the long game, and therefore become the control deck. Unless they are on the play with Goblin Guide, it is not necessary to fetch untapped for the first white source.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
I uave ad the deck for some time, buqt i haven't commitee to plying it for more than a few weeks in a row. With GP Pittsburgh coming up, I decided that I want burn as an option. Last night i went 3-1 (only losing to twin). I just have a few questions:
According to mtggoldfish, it looks like the Nacatl version is the accepted version now. Last night I ran the naya version and it felt good. Is the nacatl version the acceoted "best version" or are the numbers somewhat skewed?
I was considering trying out the straight RW version to have an edge in the mirror. Has anyone tried this with success?
Thanks!
RGOmnath, Locus of ManaRG
URThe Locust godUR
Modern
UWMiraclesUW
Legacy
BGIce Station Zebra (Living Fins)BG
UBRGrixis ControlUBR
RGLandsRG
Read over the last, I don't know, 30 pages and there's plenty of discussion of Nacatl.
Nacatl is the new hotness, certainly, and people are playing it online a lot. However, it's not a card that Burn really wants. It's a card for a creature heavy deck, which we are not. People are playing it, but it is not the accepted "best version" at all. Top deck Nacatl on T4 and you lose the game. Top deck a Burn spell and you win. You only want Nacatl on T1, and after that it's junk. You're likely paying 4-6 life to get a 3/3 that gets bolted/pathed/decayed before doing anything. It's not worth it. People are winning on MTGO with Nacatl Burn on the back of being Burn, not the back of Nacatl.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Also guys, according to Modern Nexus Twin is Tier 2 now. What do guys make of that?
http://modernnexus.com/topdecks/
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Strength of vexing devil is that it usually does 4 straight away if the player does not have removal. If they do have removal it stays and they are forces to use it as it is a large threat.
T1 VD, T2 Swift spear and bolt is harder on a player than T1 GG T2 Swift spear and bolt.
Just my take. If price of goblin guide is too high and no reprint in BFZ, Vexing Devil is a valid replacement. Will get a reprint in MM 2017 for sure.
I favor Vexing Devil more then Swiftspear because the Devil plays better with Eidolon (but I usually Legacy.) I don't think Goblin Guide would be a major disadvantage, even in modern. Although I never liked the idea of playing 3 colors for burn and I wonder if 3 colors and playing fetchlands with shocklands increase the disadvantage. I've been reading modern burn (partly because I'm thinking of building a deck for the format) but I would think a mono red would work better or at least keep the deck with 2 colors (my opinion)
Sorry, I have doubts Goblin Guide is going to be reprinted. I also think once it's determined it will not be reprinted the price will increase for a second time. Then it might be reprinted in another Modern Masters set. (Ok I'm guessing but I think Goblin Guide and Swiftspear is too aggressive for standard, especially when the set seemed to be pimping 4cc+ creatures) [It might be smarter to get a playset now before they become Goyfs]
Could Vexing Devil replace Goblin Guide? I'm not sure and it depends on how you play the creature. I usually play my Vexing Devils on turn 3. [[Turn 1 is Goblin Guide or Rift Bolt. Turn 2 is Eidolon (if hes not in my hand, it's a bolt/searing card). ]]
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Goblin guide is consistently better. Key word "consistently". Vexing devil gives your opponents an option which is usually bad for you. Red players don't give options besides scoop or play. Now if you play both, I guess it's fine, but other creatures should be considered over vexing devil. If you can't find goblin guide; go for the vexing question of whether you opponent will choose an outcome that favors you.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Specifically it is the U/R Twin that took a big nosedive. Everyone has jumped onto Grixis Twin b/c it is generally stronger and more versatile than the U/R variant. Temur Twin had a way better showing than U/R too. Combine the 3 and you have 9.5% of the meta, 8.7% online, 9% paper, 10.9% Day 2. Twin, as an overall archetype, beats the pants off every other archetype from that list.
lol
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)