Hi guys. I'm not really a modern player, but I have a legacy burn deck and I was wondering if it could work when ported into a more creature heavy Boros burn deck in modern. Something like this:
I added a couple of creatures to make up for the loss of a couple of bolts, and replaced the bolts that can only burn the opponent into cards that can act as removal so the creatures can connect. Would it be better to max out on burn, though? Like add Lava Spike and lose the Ash Zealot? I don't really want to add black because I want to keep it at two colors if possible.
"Creature heavy burn list" is called an RDW. If you're going this route, check Boros Deck Wins threads for advice.
If you want to play burn, lose the creatures and add the extra bolts.
Thanks for the advice. The first post mentioned creature heavy lists twice, though, which is why I originally posted here. Also the boros thread seems to be all midrange.
Shard Volley is a relly great card and sould be a 4-of. The main problem is that burn players are afraid of running this because they don't know how to use it. It is a little bit like Fireblast in Legacy. It is a finisher and when you playing this you either have minimal risk of getting it countered or you are in need of 3 damage (for example against Infect). In both cases you won't care about loosing a land.
I run 4 in a 19 land deck and never had problems with it.
I consider shard volley as a auto 4-of
the only scenarios where it's drawback is a problem is when you are forced to use it (say is the only card in your hand and the opponents does +1 on his liliana) and those scenarios don't happend too often
Possibly, but if you have added white to your deck, you already have access to Hide/Seek which is probably better, especially against Tron's Wurmcoils.
Standard: RWUJeskai Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers Legacy: RBurn EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders) Current decklists are posted here
Possibly, but if you have added white to your deck, you already have access to Hide/Seek which is probably better, especially against Tron's Wurmcoils.
Wear//Tear does have the advantage of always hitting Splinter Twin instead of Spellskite in Tear mode.
Standard: RWUJeskai Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers Legacy: RBurn EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders) Current decklists are posted here
I'm definetly going tro try it instead of [card]Leave no Trace[/quote] I'm actually running (not that I am not satisfied, it's just for the sake of testing)
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I think the thing is self-explainatory, the wrath is only in for testing purposes.
Thoughts?
Did you predict lots of aggro and affinity? It seem your MD and your SB are all geared in improving those MU where you have no outs against control and combo list and limited defense to life-gain.
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1. Not sure about Lavamancers and Shamans. They basically fill the same role--I'm just trying them out together to see their comparative advantages. Usually they don't get in for much, but what they do get in for is critical. Considering cutting one or the other out entirely for the fourth and two more mountains. Opinions? (Read the thread above; arguments for DRS seems stronger to me... disagree?)
- 1.5 Ninja Edit: Put in the 4th DRS and the 4th Boros Charm... seemed ridiculous to run W and not maximize this card.
2. Main deck molten rain sounds like good times these days. Maybe over the shamans/mancers?
3. SCD: Is Vexing Devil really worth it in this kind of build? He seems lousy late game, but really w/ this deck if you are in late game you are losing anyway...
4. I considered 4 Torpor Orb, 4 leyline of punsihment, or 4 molten rain in my remaining slots. Hide//Seek sounds worthwhile. I don't have a good sense of the M/Us yet, tho, other than some generalities. Help editing/finishing the SB would be greatly appreciated.
Hey everyone. I'm fairly new to modern but I've been testing out this deck as I really want to start playing red again. Quick question: how do we combat Splinter Twin? I've found that unless I can win game 1 and then surprise them with Rakdos Charm in game 2, it's pretty much a lost cause. It could be my play skill as I'm fairly new to mtg (twin was rotating out of standard when I started) but it's tough to play around when they have a mitt full of counters like Dispel and Spell Pierce. Any suggestions?
Thanks for the suggestions! Another issue I'm looking at right now is whether or not it is worthwhile to board cards for the lifegain matchup and for Leyline of Sanctity. Right now I have 6 slots occupied by Rain of Gore and Kami of Ancient Law but I feel like there are tons of great options to improve other matchups where I stand a better chance of winning. I haven't played the Soul Sisters matchup yet but I feel like it's a lost cause. Our deck can handle moderate lifegain with Skullcrack and/or Flames of the Bloodhand. If I had to prioritize right now, I'm more inclined to board cards for Leyline but at the same time, 3 or 4 cards in the board to counter one card that is more or less an auto-loss seems counter-productive. Any thoughts?
*edit* If I want to run 18 land, can I get by with only 1 basic mountain? I'm concerned that I won't have lands to pull from Path to Exile. At 19 lands, I was running 2 mountains but I found I was flooding some games when I needed more gas. That said, I'm running the singleton Stomping Ground for the Deathrite Shaman - is it worth it? The lifegain won me a game I would have otherwise lost yesterday. It also seems good vs reanimator.
Thanks for the suggestions! Another issue I'm looking at right now is whether or not it is worthwhile to board cards for the lifegain matchup and for Leyline of Sanctity. Right now I have 6 slots occupied by Rain of Gore and Kami of Ancient Law but I feel like there are tons of great options to improve other matchups where I stand a better chance of winning. I haven't played the Soul Sisters matchup yet but I feel like it's a lost cause. Our deck can handle moderate lifegain with Skullcrack and/or Flames of the Bloodhand. If I had to prioritize right now, I'm more inclined to board cards for Leyline but at the same time, 3 or 4 cards in the board to counter one card that is more or less an auto-loss seems counter-productive. Any thoughts?
*edit* If I want to run 18 land, can I get by with only 1 basic mountain? I'm concerned that I won't have lands to pull from Path to Exile. At 19 lands, I was running 2 mountains but I found I was flooding some games when I needed more gas. That said, I'm running the singleton Stomping Ground for the Deathrite Shaman - is it worth it? The lifegain won me a game I would have otherwise lost yesterday. It also seems good vs reanimator.
Can you post your deck-list? as a burn player Leyline of Sanctity tend to be auto-loss so you'll need an out vs them, which is why I use Duergar Hedge-Mage I can get more value from him against other deck list as well.
Soul Sisters is another auto-loss which is why you'll need an answer I use to run Gore charm but I swapped it out for Torpor Orb it stops the sister trigger effect and it come in against MANY other decklists unlike Gore Charm (it hoses twin which you mention is an issue as well)....
My original decklist which I posted here was great when things curved-out hell I won a few Daily Events without practicing with the deck but I had a number of moments where I'll mull down to 6 or 5 and where I would just never see my third or second land and just out right lose.
If your OK with your shuffling skills and with mulling down quite a bit and sure go down to 18 lands.
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Can you post your deck-list? as a burn player Leyline of Sanctity tend to be auto-loss so you'll need an out vs them, which is why I use Duergar Hedge-Mage I can get more value from him against other deck list as well.
Soul Sisters is another auto-loss which is why you'll need an answer I use to run Gore charm but I swapped it out for Torpor Orb it stops the sister trigger effect and it come in against MANY other decklists unlike Gore Charm (it hoses twin which you mention is an issue as well)....
My original decklist which I posted here was great when things curved-out hell I won a few Daily Events without practicing with the deck but I had a number of moments where I'll mull down to 6 or 5 and where I would just never see my third or second land and just out right lose.
If your OK with your shuffling skills and with mulling down quite a bit and sure go down to 18 lands.
Sure thing! Thanks for your response. Here is what I'm working with right now but I don't have a whole lot of testing under my belt just yet.
I only recently went down to 18 land. Prior to this list, I was running 1 less Searing Blaze for another mountain. When I can trigger landfall and the opponent has a creature, blaze is a beating but otherwise it can be a dead draw. With only one mountain, I definitely run the risk of not having a basic land to pull for multiple Path to Exiles. I think the selection of burn is pretty standard apart from 4 maindeck Searing Blaze. I would also like to fit in a third Shard Volley if I can find space somewhere.
I tried to cover as much ground as possible in the sideboard and as such am concerned that it's a little thin. If we accept Soul Sisters and Leyline as losses from the get-go, I can free up 6 slots in the board and still have Torpor Orb available to help with the triggered lifegain. Volcanic Fallout tested very well with 19 land in the deck against any type of creature based deck. I also like the idea of doing some damage in addition to clearing the board of tokens or Geist of Saint Traft. Cards I would like to fit in: Shattering Spree/Smash to Smithereens, a 4th Rakdos Charm and Dragon's Claw. I know there will be at least one person playing a similar list in my meta. Alternatives to existing cards that I'm considering include: Erase, Back to Nature and maybe Sudden Shock for certain matchups.
1st round: against GW auras, lost the first game cause of his elf with rancor and like 3 other enchantment who killed me in 3 strikes. Second easly won after a leave no trace that destroyed all his enchantments leaving him with 2 cards in hand. Third game He didn't draw so well so was pretty slow and I killed him before he could've killed me.
Won 2-1
2nd round: Jund. Close game, 1-1, on G3 he drew 4 consecutive lands with his confidant. We were both with no cards in hand,he was at 1 and he had bob and tarmo on the board (tarmo 5/6), I drew grim lavamancer who got istant killed by liliana, and a land on my last useful turn. Close game anyway, could have won that easly if the draw was anything but land or grim (i sided out guides btw)
Lost 1-2
3rd round: GW hatebears variant with lingering and Wilt-lief Liege. I won without big problems, lost a game anyway to a double lingering followed by liege who killed me in 2 turns.
Won 2-1
4th round: another GW, I managed to get around his swords of war and peace and spellskite thanks to rakdos charm and smash to smithereens.
Won 2-0
5th round: UW tron. Interesting version of tron, with counters, Gifts ungiven to reanimate iona or elesh norn. Lost first game, won second after sb. Time ended before the end of the last game (when I drew like 12 lands, and he was surely going to win given time)
Draw 1-1
6th round: decisive round; if I won I would get very close to top8. I get UWR control and I wasn't really happy. I was even less after 2 games in which I drew lotd of lands and he kept gaining life and shooting to my lavamancers.
Lost 0-2
7th round: last round, I'm already out of top8, another UWR control, another loss in both games. I simply can't control a sphinx's revelation followed by a skullcrack who got countered. he simply kept going to 3 or 4 with my hand empty and gaining with Helix and Sphinx. Both games played not thinking too much, anyway.
Lost 0-2
Overall:
3-3-1
I'm pretty satisfied of my deck. Personally I will play another Sacred Foundry. I lost my foundry sometimes to ghost quarter or tectonic edge and got totally screwed up.
I think I can get around a lot of decks after sideboarding, but not UWR. I don't really know what to do against them. They counter every spell who can stop them gaining life and they follow that with a revelation with X=4 or 5 that destroys me totally. Maybe Rain of Gore in sideboard? or Defense Grid? I'm open to suggestions.
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The Father of Machines will free these creatures from the shackles of their imperfect flesh. All glory to Phyrexia!
How important is Spellskite really... thinking about letting it go for +1 on each SB card except of Spree.
What are your thoughts on Lightning Helix over Searing Blaze? Is it because your only running 18 lands or because searing is a dead card against the control/combo list?
I personally don't like Spellskite and would easily take another Rakdos Charm over it and some other 2 random choices.
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4 Goblin Guide
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Vexing Devil
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Ash Zealot
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Lightning Helix
4 Boros Charm
4 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
11 Mountain
1 Plains
I added a couple of creatures to make up for the loss of a couple of bolts, and replaced the bolts that can only burn the opponent into cards that can act as removal so the creatures can connect. Would it be better to max out on burn, though? Like add Lava Spike and lose the Ash Zealot? I don't really want to add black because I want to keep it at two colors if possible.
If you want to play burn, lose the creatures and add the extra bolts.
Modern: RWB Burn G Infect B Infect BR Nivmiseit
Standard: R Red Deck Wins
Thanks for the advice. The first post mentioned creature heavy lists twice, though, which is why I originally posted here. Also the boros thread seems to be all midrange.
Awful in this deck.
Burn aims to be close to creatureless.
Many creatures in burn decks never attack, they just tap.
(Grim Lavamancer, Deathrite shaman)
The few creatures burn plays are removal magnets anyways.
Teetering Peaks comes in tapped and can be a tempo loss in burn where you use your resources very carefully.
I consider shard volley as a auto 4-of
the only scenarios where it's drawback is a problem is when you are forced to use it (say is the only card in your hand and the opponents does +1 on his liliana) and those scenarios don't happend too often
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MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
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Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers
Legacy: RBurn
EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here
Wear//Tear does have the advantage of always hitting Splinter Twin instead of Spellskite in Tear mode.
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MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers
Legacy: RBurn
EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here
Level 2 Judge
Did you predict lots of aggro and affinity? It seem your MD and your SB are all geared in improving those MU where you have no outs against control and combo list and limited defense to life-gain.
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
4 Arid Mesa
4 Teetering Peaks
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Rugged Praire
2 Mountain
2 Battlefield Forge
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
Creatures 12
4 Goblin Guide
4 Ash Zealot
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Boros Charm
3 Magma Jet
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Skullcrack
4 Shattering Spree
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Skullcrack
5 Slots
1. Not sure about Lavamancers and Shamans. They basically fill the same role--I'm just trying them out together to see their comparative advantages. Usually they don't get in for much, but what they do get in for is critical. Considering cutting one or the other out entirely for the fourth and two more mountains. Opinions? (Read the thread above; arguments for DRS seems stronger to me... disagree?)
- 1.5 Ninja Edit: Put in the 4th DRS and the 4th Boros Charm... seemed ridiculous to run W and not maximize this card.
2. Main deck molten rain sounds like good times these days. Maybe over the shamans/mancers?
3. SCD: Is Vexing Devil really worth it in this kind of build? He seems lousy late game, but really w/ this deck if you are in late game you are losing anyway...
4. I considered 4 Torpor Orb, 4 leyline of punsihment, or 4 molten rain in my remaining slots. Hide//Seek sounds worthwhile. I don't have a good sense of the M/Us yet, tho, other than some generalities. Help editing/finishing the SB would be greatly appreciated.
5. Rakdos Charm MD or 3x Shard Volley?
6. Teetering Peaks--I understand it's a no-no, but it does give blistering starts... I suppose I'll have to get over my infatuation
7. Ash Zealot doesn't seem to be in many lists... any reason why? Vexing Devils over Zealots? Opinions?
8. Did I miss anything?
Thanks in advance.
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Modern: UWR UWR Control
EDH: WBR Kaalia of the Vast
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*edit* If I want to run 18 land, can I get by with only 1 basic mountain? I'm concerned that I won't have lands to pull from Path to Exile. At 19 lands, I was running 2 mountains but I found I was flooding some games when I needed more gas. That said, I'm running the singleton Stomping Ground for the Deathrite Shaman - is it worth it? The lifegain won me a game I would have otherwise lost yesterday. It also seems good vs reanimator.
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Modern: UWR UWR Control
EDH: WBR Kaalia of the Vast
Can you post your deck-list? as a burn player Leyline of Sanctity tend to be auto-loss so you'll need an out vs them, which is why I use Duergar Hedge-Mage I can get more value from him against other deck list as well.
Soul Sisters is another auto-loss which is why you'll need an answer I use to run Gore charm but I swapped it out for Torpor Orb it stops the sister trigger effect and it come in against MANY other decklists unlike Gore Charm (it hoses twin which you mention is an issue as well)....
My original decklist which I posted here was great when things curved-out hell I won a few Daily Events without practicing with the deck but I had a number of moments where I'll mull down to 6 or 5 and where I would just never see my third or second land and just out right lose.
If your OK with your shuffling skills and with mulling down quite a bit and sure go down to 18 lands.
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
Sure thing! Thanks for your response. Here is what I'm working with right now but I don't have a whole lot of testing under my belt just yet.
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Mountain
Creatures (12):
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
2 Shard Volley
Sorceries (12):
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
3 Torpor Orb
3 Kami of Ancient Law
3 Rain of Gore
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Volcanic Fallout
I only recently went down to 18 land. Prior to this list, I was running 1 less Searing Blaze for another mountain. When I can trigger landfall and the opponent has a creature, blaze is a beating but otherwise it can be a dead draw. With only one mountain, I definitely run the risk of not having a basic land to pull for multiple Path to Exiles. I think the selection of burn is pretty standard apart from 4 maindeck Searing Blaze. I would also like to fit in a third Shard Volley if I can find space somewhere.
I tried to cover as much ground as possible in the sideboard and as such am concerned that it's a little thin. If we accept Soul Sisters and Leyline as losses from the get-go, I can free up 6 slots in the board and still have Torpor Orb available to help with the triggered lifegain. Volcanic Fallout tested very well with 19 land in the deck against any type of creature based deck. I also like the idea of doing some damage in addition to clearing the board of tokens or Geist of Saint Traft. Cards I would like to fit in: Shattering Spree/Smash to Smithereens, a 4th Rakdos Charm and Dragon's Claw. I know there will be at least one person playing a similar list in my meta. Alternatives to existing cards that I'm considering include: Erase, Back to Nature and maybe Sudden Shock for certain matchups.
Thanks for your help!
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Modern: UWR UWR Control
EDH: WBR Kaalia of the Vast
Here's my decklist and report:
Land (19)
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
Creatures (8)
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
Sorceries:
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the night
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Skullcrack
2 Lightning Helix
2 Flames of the Blood Hand
3 Shard Volley
2 Searing Blaze
4 Boros Charm
1 Lightning Helix
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Leave no Trace
2 Molten Rain
4 Rakdos Charm
2 Smash to smithereens
Aaand the report:
1st round: against GW auras, lost the first game cause of his elf with rancor and like 3 other enchantment who killed me in 3 strikes. Second easly won after a leave no trace that destroyed all his enchantments leaving him with 2 cards in hand. Third game He didn't draw so well so was pretty slow and I killed him before he could've killed me.
Won 2-1
2nd round: Jund. Close game, 1-1, on G3 he drew 4 consecutive lands with his confidant. We were both with no cards in hand,he was at 1 and he had bob and tarmo on the board (tarmo 5/6), I drew grim lavamancer who got istant killed by liliana, and a land on my last useful turn. Close game anyway, could have won that easly if the draw was anything but land or grim (i sided out guides btw)
Lost 1-2
3rd round: GW hatebears variant with lingering and Wilt-lief Liege. I won without big problems, lost a game anyway to a double lingering followed by liege who killed me in 2 turns.
Won 2-1
4th round: another GW, I managed to get around his swords of war and peace and spellskite thanks to rakdos charm and smash to smithereens.
Won 2-0
5th round: UW tron. Interesting version of tron, with counters, Gifts ungiven to reanimate iona or elesh norn. Lost first game, won second after sb. Time ended before the end of the last game (when I drew like 12 lands, and he was surely going to win given time)
Draw 1-1
6th round: decisive round; if I won I would get very close to top8. I get UWR control and I wasn't really happy. I was even less after 2 games in which I drew lotd of lands and he kept gaining life and shooting to my lavamancers.
Lost 0-2
7th round: last round, I'm already out of top8, another UWR control, another loss in both games. I simply can't control a sphinx's revelation followed by a skullcrack who got countered. he simply kept going to 3 or 4 with my hand empty and gaining with Helix and Sphinx. Both games played not thinking too much, anyway.
Lost 0-2
Overall:
3-3-1
I'm pretty satisfied of my deck. Personally I will play another Sacred Foundry. I lost my foundry sometimes to ghost quarter or tectonic edge and got totally screwed up.
I think I can get around a lot of decks after sideboarding, but not UWR. I don't really know what to do against them. They counter every spell who can stop them gaining life and they follow that with a revelation with X=4 or 5 that destroys me totally. Maybe Rain of Gore in sideboard? or Defense Grid? I'm open to suggestions.
Level 2 Judge
What are your thoughts on Lightning Helix over Searing Blaze? Is it because your only running 18 lands or because searing is a dead card against the control/combo list?
I personally don't like Spellskite and would easily take another Rakdos Charm over it and some other 2 random choices.
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here