Grim is decent without fetches. If you're fetchless and it's the first couple of matches with the deck, people auto kill him, leaving no answer to Eidolon, Goblin, or Devil. Devil will quickly be outclassed, so he is the first thing I side out. Eidolon is an auto 4, there's no competitive reason not to in mono-R.
Grim is decent without fetches. If you're fetchless and it's the first couple of matches with the deck, people auto kill him, leaving no answer to Eidolon, Goblin, or Devil. Devil will quickly be outclassed, so he is the first thing I side out. Eidolon is an auto 4, there's no competitive reason not to in mono-R.
Eh, I think it depends on your meta a bit. For instance, if I'm expecting a lot of Zoo and Merfolk, I might not run 4 (both decks can take advantage of the burn on us and their dudes outclass Eidolon). Same if I'm expecting a lot of Tron or Living End (it doesn't do much in those matchups). And I tend to side them out on the draw against Affinity and Pod, since both of those decks have likely played their smaller dudes by their turn 2, though it's solid in both matchups on the play. The matchups where it really shines are U/R Delver, U/R Twin, and UWR control (though it tends to get removed quickly in all of those, if they don't have a removal spell or have used it on a Guide it will cause massive problems) and of course it's downright unbeatable for Storm. I've also found it to be one of the most important cards in the mirror, where efficiency is king. If they have a Searing Blaze/Searing Blood for it, it's a lot worse, but if they have to waste a Bolt on it, you're WAY ahead on that exchange, and if they can't remove it it should just win you the game.
So in short I think how many you run depends on the metagame you expect. If you expect a lot of tempo-based decks, control decks, storm, or the mirror you might want 4 mainboard. If you're expecting creature-based aggro or ramp, 2 main 2 side or even just 1 main might be correct. It's really a card that has to be evaluated matchup by matchup - it's not a card that is great against certain archetypes and terrible against others, like, say, Searing Blaze. For instance, against combo decks: It's unbeatable vs Storm, great vs Twin, very good vs Ad Nauseum, ok vs Pod, and terrible vs Living End - it runs the gauntlet.
Went 7-1 at a modern GPT today. The whole day I only lost 2 games. In the finals I just went to a draw with the other guy so we split the prize. Searing Blaze was great for me, but I don't think I'd want to run more than 2. Here is my list
Tell me, why would you put a Eidolon of the Great Revel in a Burn deck? It's anti-burn. All the main burn spells cost 1-3, so yeah. Zap your opponent, and zap youself while you're doing it. Doesn't make sense to me.
Because as long as you burn your opponent faster than you burn out you'll win the match. It's the same reason Flame Rift gets played in burn.
Well I play modern, so cards like Flame Rift are not legal. A burn-player is likely to cast more spells than his or her opponent, due to the low casting cost, and will probably hit him or herself more than the opponent so it wouldn't pay off in the end. I personally wouldn't run it. If you can win in turn 4-5 without running Eidolon of the Great Revel, I see no reason to put him in. I'd rather play a Boros Charm.
You really misunderstand the point of Eidolon of the Great Revel. He'll almost always hurt us more than he hurts them, but we don't care - he'll kill them before he kills us. To illustrate this, imagine this card:
BURN TO DEATH 0 Instant
Target player loses 17 life. You lose 19 life.
Would burn run this card? Absolutely, as a 4-of staple. In fact, it would be banned immediately for being too powerful. Why? Because it doesn't matter if we're at 1 life if the opponent is at 0 life. With BURN TO DEATH, we'd win on turn 1 practically every game we have it in our opening hand: turn 1 bolt/spike, BURN TO DEATH, you lose. We could mulligan to 3 cards and still win turn 1 if those 3 cards are Mountain, Bolt, BURN TO DEATH. Despite the fact that it deals us more damage than it deals them, it also happens to win us the game, which is all that matters.
Eidolon is kind of the same concept on a much smaller scale. It is very likely to deal us more damage than it deals the opponent, but we don't care - our entire deck is designed to get the opponent from 20 to 0 as quickly as possible. We value efficiency over pure value, and Eidolon is incredibly efficient. Imagine a game where we land Eidolon, the opponent plays one spell that triggers Eidolon, we play 4 spells that trigger Eidolon, it gets one attack in, and then it dies to a removal spell, earning another trigger. In this game, it has read:
Eidolon of the Great Revel RR
Target player loses 6 life and one card (the removal spell they spent on Eidolon). You lose 8 life.
That's a great card for Burn for the same reason BURN TO DEATH, my hypothetical card, is a great card for burn. Given that the rest of our deck is direct damage spells and only the most efficient creatures, we care much more about the fact that the opponent lost 6 life than we lost 8. Only in certain matchups does the life we lost matter, as I posted above. Imagine it less as a creature and more as an incredibly efficient burn spell in the mold of Flame Rift, and you'll start to see why Burn values it so much.
Played this in an 8 round PTQ last weekend. Lost rnd 1 to games 1-2 Affinity nut draws (which I believe is likely the deck's most difficult matchup anyways) and then in round 7 to a Boros deck, who surprised me with Ball Lightnings, when I was light-landed. Eidolon was simply incredible. Most creature decks simply cannot beat it efficiently, while dealing with the rest of the burn spells in a timely manner. I have played Melira 4 times and none of the games have been particularly close. The deck is a very real threat in the metagame. Hopefully the successes it has been having will not lead people to play more Leyline of Sanctity, as that card is going to be a very difficult issue for it to deal with. Transitioning to a more-creature based deck is unlikely to work, as nearly every deck's creatures will outclass the ones Burn will want to play. I will definitely be playing this in the rest of the PTQs I attend this season. Have to figure what to put in for 1-2 of the Shard Volley, as they have been the worst card in the deck by far. Sideboard, the tempest of light's will probably come out as well, because Boggle just isn't a popular deck anymore.
I think i should give a try on 20 lands for not play only whit 2 lands all the game, and quit some 3 CMC cost that are hard to cast, Also i quit 2 CMC spells by replacing by 2 Shard Volley
The idea its have always 3 lands on play and can cast 1 cmc spell + 2 cmc spell at the same time doing 6-7 damage by turn insteand of 3
I think on Blood Moon too, i need to cast on Turn 3 for win, playing on turn 5 or 6 its not good enought
Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
So I've been playtesting my deck on cockatrice waiting for next monday to roll around (my normal playgroup meetup) when I realized: I have no target for Path to Exile. After great deliberation I made a Stomping Ground a Mountain. I havent been killed off by running 4x Eidolon of the Great Revel in a 3 color deck yet although I'm not running a huge compliment of fetches. What I can say is I'm getting super value out of the scars lands. I have yet to have one come in tapped. This is mainly due to the low land count, always dropping them ahead of shocks, and the fact that shard volley sacrifices off the extra lands.
All it takes is a lucky Tron into Wurmcoil to make things messy for us. I currently run 4/2 and regret nothing. It's easy to board out, and still does damage if there's no lifegain in game 1.
I was thinking about cutting black, replacing Bump with Vexing Devil, and Rakdos Charm with Smash to Smitherines. Tron is fairly common in my meta. The manabase hasn't been much of a problem, though if I drop black, I can easily cut revelry, but revelry is hard to cut. However, people haven't had much trouble with Mono-Red, which is perfectly fine for me. I can cut revelry for more artifact hate/sweepers/anything. Maybe even Satyr Firedancer?
Well, yesterday was my last Modern FNM. The store I frequent will no longer have them, even though it's his most popular format. Anyway, I did pretty crappy since I haven't played this deck since I last told you guys about a month ago. Lost to a Standard deck called BW Devotion. Rolled him over game one, flooded game 2, and sorta flooded but I'll blame my misplay of running my Eidolon and Guide into open mana and Mutavault. I saw it, felt like it didn't matter and he stabilized at 2 life with a top deck Blood Baron and had that 2/3 flier the following turn my Eidolon died. I mulled to 6 all 3 games though.
Next I lost to a UW Gifts deck with Tron lands. No counterspells , but if I had known that previously, I would have landed my Blood Moon game two and won with 2-0 against him. Instead he combo'd off games two and three on turn 3 with Iona with artifact mana acceleration. Both times just under 10 life for him.
I then won against a home brew and Mono U Tron. Rolled them both over 2-0. Fun times. It really should have been a 3-1 record for me last night, but that first game I set my night. I only won the dice roll with the Mono U Tron player, and in needed to play tightly as possible. The UW Gifts deck felt unwinnable. I knew I should have mulled to find my hate pieces, but I didn't want to chance it. Chance it I should have. I'll post the deck list after work today. Deuces!
I play tested this deck for no reason on cockatrice, and eidolon is one of those cards you don't realize you need until you do..I sided him out game 2 and I immediately missed him, and thought to myself damn what did burn players ever do without him?
He is truly the goblin electromancer of storm for the burn deck. It just makes the deck.
Random thought, is Harm's Way good enough to see RW decklists? Its essentially a 1 mana lightning helix for 2. I can see it being way too situational or too low impact. I just want to hear people's thoughts on it.
Opinions on thoughtseize sideboard going against combo decks (Twin / Pod) if we run black in our burn?
Vs Twin one card stands out the most in R/B Burn and thats Rakdos Charm. I run 2 main deck (also very good against Zoo, Elves, Merfok, Affinity, Tron, Dredge, etc) + 2 sideboard. They dont expect it.
Vs Melira Pod, Kiki Pod, heck any Pod, Twin, Soul Sisters and any decks running Enter the Battlefield stuff Torpor Orb is so good at slowing their game down. I run 4 in the side and always bring in all 4 against them.
Thoughtseize can be good vs Storm, Scapeshift, Pod and Twin but keep in mind that it vs Scapeshift and Twin it can get countered. Using Rakdos Charm Twin will most likely be tapped out by Kiki or Twin so unless a Pact of Negation pops your gonna win if they go off. Against Pod it can help but they can still hard cast their stuff where Torpor Orb will shut it down if it doesnt get hit by Qasali Pridemage where they usually run 2 and maybe 1 in the side and if they can use Pod because you killed it with Shattering Spree/Rakdos Charm/Smash to Smithereens then your set.
Bc as I've stated in the past, it's a thing of laziness that people have... but I actually just went back to copy and paste it but never mind the advise. I don't need it. I already got it set up. Thanks though.
Eh, I think it depends on your meta a bit. For instance, if I'm expecting a lot of Zoo and Merfolk, I might not run 4 (both decks can take advantage of the burn on us and their dudes outclass Eidolon). Same if I'm expecting a lot of Tron or Living End (it doesn't do much in those matchups). And I tend to side them out on the draw against Affinity and Pod, since both of those decks have likely played their smaller dudes by their turn 2, though it's solid in both matchups on the play. The matchups where it really shines are U/R Delver, U/R Twin, and UWR control (though it tends to get removed quickly in all of those, if they don't have a removal spell or have used it on a Guide it will cause massive problems) and of course it's downright unbeatable for Storm. I've also found it to be one of the most important cards in the mirror, where efficiency is king. If they have a Searing Blaze/Searing Blood for it, it's a lot worse, but if they have to waste a Bolt on it, you're WAY ahead on that exchange, and if they can't remove it it should just win you the game.
So in short I think how many you run depends on the metagame you expect. If you expect a lot of tempo-based decks, control decks, storm, or the mirror you might want 4 mainboard. If you're expecting creature-based aggro or ramp, 2 main 2 side or even just 1 main might be correct. It's really a card that has to be evaluated matchup by matchup - it's not a card that is great against certain archetypes and terrible against others, like, say, Searing Blaze. For instance, against combo decks: It's unbeatable vs Storm, great vs Twin, very good vs Ad Nauseum, ok vs Pod, and terrible vs Living End - it runs the gauntlet.
You really misunderstand the point of Eidolon of the Great Revel. He'll almost always hurt us more than he hurts them, but we don't care - he'll kill them before he kills us. To illustrate this, imagine this card:
BURN TO DEATH 0 Instant
Target player loses 17 life. You lose 19 life.
Would burn run this card? Absolutely, as a 4-of staple. In fact, it would be banned immediately for being too powerful. Why? Because it doesn't matter if we're at 1 life if the opponent is at 0 life. With BURN TO DEATH, we'd win on turn 1 practically every game we have it in our opening hand: turn 1 bolt/spike, BURN TO DEATH, you lose. We could mulligan to 3 cards and still win turn 1 if those 3 cards are Mountain, Bolt, BURN TO DEATH. Despite the fact that it deals us more damage than it deals them, it also happens to win us the game, which is all that matters.
Eidolon is kind of the same concept on a much smaller scale. It is very likely to deal us more damage than it deals the opponent, but we don't care - our entire deck is designed to get the opponent from 20 to 0 as quickly as possible. We value efficiency over pure value, and Eidolon is incredibly efficient. Imagine a game where we land Eidolon, the opponent plays one spell that triggers Eidolon, we play 4 spells that trigger Eidolon, it gets one attack in, and then it dies to a removal spell, earning another trigger. In this game, it has read:
Eidolon of the Great Revel RR
Target player loses 6 life and one card (the removal spell they spent on Eidolon). You lose 8 life.
That's a great card for Burn for the same reason BURN TO DEATH, my hypothetical card, is a great card for burn. Given that the rest of our deck is direct damage spells and only the most efficient creatures, we care much more about the fact that the opponent lost 6 life than we lost 8. Only in certain matchups does the life we lost matter, as I posted above. Imagine it less as a creature and more as an incredibly efficient burn spell in the mold of Flame Rift, and you'll start to see why Burn values it so much.
Standard: UUMono Blue DevotionUU
Modern:
RRBurnRRLooking for something new!Here is my list (RW Burn)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava spike
4 Skullcrack
4 Lightning Helix
4 Boros Charm
4 Rift Bolt
3 Shard Volley
3 Flames of the Bloodhand
3 Searing Blaze
4 Smash to Smithereens
3 Searing Blood
2 Tempest of Light (This is going to change soon)
2 Wear/Tear
2 Combust
2 Relic of Progenitus
Played this in an 8 round PTQ last weekend. Lost rnd 1 to games 1-2 Affinity nut draws (which I believe is likely the deck's most difficult matchup anyways) and then in round 7 to a Boros deck, who surprised me with Ball Lightnings, when I was light-landed. Eidolon was simply incredible. Most creature decks simply cannot beat it efficiently, while dealing with the rest of the burn spells in a timely manner. I have played Melira 4 times and none of the games have been particularly close. The deck is a very real threat in the metagame. Hopefully the successes it has been having will not lead people to play more Leyline of Sanctity, as that card is going to be a very difficult issue for it to deal with. Transitioning to a more-creature based deck is unlikely to work, as nearly every deck's creatures will outclass the ones Burn will want to play. I will definitely be playing this in the rest of the PTQs I attend this season. Have to figure what to put in for 1-2 of the Shard Volley, as they have been the worst card in the deck by far. Sideboard, the tempest of light's will probably come out as well, because Boggle just isn't a popular deck anymore.
- 2 Flames of the Blood Hand
- 2 Lightning Helix
+ 2 Mountain
+ 2 Shard Volley
I think i should give a try on 20 lands for not play only whit 2 lands all the game, and quit some 3 CMC cost that are hard to cast, Also i quit 2 CMC spells by replacing by 2 Shard Volley
The idea its have always 3 lands on play and can cast 1 cmc spell + 2 cmc spell at the same time doing 6-7 damage by turn insteand of 3
I think on Blood Moon too, i need to cast on Turn 3 for win, playing on turn 5 or 6 its not good enought
Any thougs?? Thanks!!
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer
Spells (26)
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
2 Shard Volley
2 Lightning Helix
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
2 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Clifftop Retreat
12 Mountain
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
//Creatures
4 Vexing Devil
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Goblin Guide
//Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Skullcrack
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Searing Blaze
2 Shard Volley
2 Magma Jet
//Sorcery
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
//Land
20 Mountain
So I've been playtesting my deck on cockatrice waiting for next monday to roll around (my normal playgroup meetup) when I realized: I have no target for Path to Exile. After great deliberation I made a Stomping Ground a Mountain. I havent been killed off by running 4x Eidolon of the Great Revel in a 3 color deck yet although I'm not running a huge compliment of fetches. What I can say is I'm getting super value out of the scars lands. I have yet to have one come in tapped. This is mainly due to the low land count, always dropping them ahead of shocks, and the fact that shard volley sacrifices off the extra lands.
4 Blood Crypt
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Stomping Ground
3 Arid Mesa
1 Mountain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Rift Bolt
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lava Spike
3 Shard Volley
2 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Searing Blaze
2 Shrine of Burning Rage
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Skullcrack
3 Dismember
2 Anger of the Gods
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
All it takes is a lucky Tron into Wurmcoil to make things messy for us. I currently run 4/2 and regret nothing. It's easy to board out, and still does damage if there's no lifegain in game 1.
Also, need some thoughts.
Here's my current deck:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Hellspark Elemental
//Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the Night
4 Rift Bolt
4 Shard Volley
4 Skullcrack
2 Flames of the Bloodhand
2 Searing Blaze
7 Mountians
4 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
3 Sulfurous Springs
3 Karplusian Forest
4 Rakdos Charm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Torpor Orb
2 Molten Rain
1 Spellskite
I was thinking about cutting black, replacing Bump with Vexing Devil, and Rakdos Charm with Smash to Smitherines. Tron is fairly common in my meta. The manabase hasn't been much of a problem, though if I drop black, I can easily cut revelry, but revelry is hard to cut. However, people haven't had much trouble with Mono-Red, which is perfectly fine for me. I can cut revelry for more artifact hate/sweepers/anything. Maybe even Satyr Firedancer?
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
Next I lost to a UW Gifts deck with Tron lands. No counterspells , but if I had known that previously, I would have landed my Blood Moon game two and won with 2-0 against him. Instead he combo'd off games two and three on turn 3 with Iona with artifact mana acceleration. Both times just under 10 life for him.
I then won against a home brew and Mono U Tron. Rolled them both over 2-0. Fun times. It really should have been a 3-1 record for me last night, but that first game I set my night. I only won the dice roll with the Mono U Tron player, and in needed to play tightly as possible. The UW Gifts deck felt unwinnable. I knew I should have mulled to find my hate pieces, but I didn't want to chance it. Chance it I should have. I'll post the deck list after work today. Deuces!
He is truly the goblin electromancer of storm for the burn deck. It just makes the deck.
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Can you post your deck list.
Vs Twin one card stands out the most in R/B Burn and thats Rakdos Charm. I run 2 main deck (also very good against Zoo, Elves, Merfok, Affinity, Tron, Dredge, etc) + 2 sideboard. They dont expect it.
Vs Melira Pod, Kiki Pod, heck any Pod, Twin, Soul Sisters and any decks running Enter the Battlefield stuff Torpor Orb is so good at slowing their game down. I run 4 in the side and always bring in all 4 against them.
Thoughtseize can be good vs Storm, Scapeshift, Pod and Twin but keep in mind that it vs Scapeshift and Twin it can get countered. Using Rakdos Charm Twin will most likely be tapped out by Kiki or Twin so unless a Pact of Negation pops your gonna win if they go off. Against Pod it can help but they can still hard cast their stuff where Torpor Orb will shut it down if it doesnt get hit by Qasali Pridemage where they usually run 2 and maybe 1 in the side and if they can use Pod because you killed it with Shattering Spree/Rakdos Charm/Smash to Smithereens then your set.
Please.