so yea bg rock is the most popular/best deck in modern how do we beat it cuz I find the match up heavily in their favor which is going to destroy our presence in modern as compared to a couple months ago. Im running ur twin heres my list:
It's not a bye for Jund. They are probably better than 60% favored against UR and maybe 50-55% favored against RUG, but they still can lose to our tempo, mana denial, and Snapcaster + cryptic/bolt lategame. The best you can do is play everything possible at instant speed and walk them into a game state where you can burn them out with chip shots and bolts. Keranos and Batterskull are all stars and you should absolutely have at least 3 (total) in your board. Vedalken shackles, threads, and blood moon do good work too.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
It's not a bye for Jund. They are probably better than 60% favored against UR and maybe 50-55% favored against RUG, but they still can lose to our tempo, mana denial, and Snapcaster + cryptic/bolt lategame. The best you can do is play everything possible at instant speed and walk them into a game state where you can burn them out with chip shots and bolts. Keranos and Batterskull are all stars and you should absolutely have at least 3 (total) in your board. Vedalken shackles, threads, and blood moon do good work too.
Yeah, as a Jund player who is starting to pick up U/R, it is definitely true that UR is not a bye for Jund. Yes, Jund does a really good job of disrupting the combo with hand disruption and Abrupt Decay and will win Game 1 a lot on the back of just that. However, Snapcaster/Lightning Bolt with counterspell backup can definitely be enough to grind out to the long game vs. Jund.
In Games 2 and 3, the standard U/R sideboard strategy is to board out the combo vs. Jund and bring in the above mentioned haymakers (some combination of Shackles, Threads, Blood Moon, Batterskull, and Keranos). You only have so many Abrupt Decays and if one of those spell lands, it can be a rough match for Jund.
The one thing you could try doing is just cut down on being so heavy on the combo -- go down to just 2-3 Splinter Twins and just 3-4 Deceiver Exarchs. The extra card slots can be used for either more specific hate vs. Jund or general answers like Mana Leak. Basically, consider a build that is more like U/R control with Twin combo as an "oops, I win" back-up and not the main game plan.
So I tried spreading seas and I dont like it even thought its good with blood moon it belongs in the sideboard and I dont have room there. I found post board the blood moon and seas was OK against bg rock and OK against junk/melira pod but since those are the decks to beat right now ive tryed this sideboard:
2 Ancient Grudge
2 batterskull
2 relic
2 anger of the gods
2 dispel
2 blood moon
3 engineered explosives
the 3 explosives is better against the meta aka board wipe for tokens and good vs merfolk affinity ect.I find threads mediocre since it can be abrupt decayed. and as for blood moon its too good not to have a couple in the side against the meta. Ive lost the 2 negates in the side which kinda sucks seeing as though there good vs uwr, burn and combo. I really wish the side board could be more than 15 cards...
dickmans tempo twin list for 2013 is looking like the better version of twin now with rock pod and prob tron soon being at the top
Won the IQ (29 people showed). Still haven't made any changes to my last list, but I've been considering ways to fit a second dispel.
Can we get a brief tournament report? Also, where in general are you located? Just curious. You had mentioned possibly going to GP Boston/Worcester. I will be there, so let me know if you do happen to make it.
In other news, I will be testing Huntmaster again tomorrow night at the weekly Modern grind, but my hunch is that I'll be cutting it for the GP in favor of Vendilion Clique and either Thrun or more interaction. Will report back on my decisions.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I use scooze and clique. Both very good in some matchups but mediocre and sometimes bad in others. But they are the kind of niche threats that have performed well for me in the past. Clique is great against the combo and control decks but struggles against some midrange decks and aggro decks. Scooze is fantastic against pod as a disruptive element and hits other strategies. They are what I like and are what i am going to be playing in the future.
On a side note this link has a RUG twin deck that has Twisted image and some interesting creature and card choices while also top 8ing and PTQ. Is twisted image a card that could go into RUG twin? I have seen multiple lists with it.
I'm trying a configuration of 3 Spreading Seas and 3 Tectonic Edge in the mainboard for UR Twin. Have ditched the 2 Izzet Charm and 1 Desolate Lighthouse in the mainboard.
I'm loving it! Totally screws Jund, Tron, and UWR. Occassionally screws also mono colored decks especially if they have double to triple colored cc cards.
Something I haven't seen gone over in my time here(though it may well have been and I missed it), but for more tempo oriented variants, is there any level of thought that goes into when you play serum visions. This is to say, if it's in your opening hand against an unknown deck, do you all find that lead with it, or do you hold it until you know what you're up against and can reliably dig for what you know you want?
I can't answer that specifically, but one thing that helps in that regard is to keep a fetchland available if you're not sure what they're playing. That way if you scry a card to the top and it turns out to be bad in the matchup, you can change your mind and shuffle it away.
Often we are casting Visions on turn 1 due to mana efficiency, Goyf, and to fix our hand, regardless of what our opponent is playing. Sometimes you need more land, or a threat, or half the combo, or interaction. And you can always Snapcaster it later to find specific cards.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
How differently does RUG play than UR? Obviously adding the goyfs and green gives you more option, and I feel like Only win maybe 20% of my games of the combo anyways...and since I recently got my hands n some goyfs, I might want to try it for GP boston. However, I've been with UR tempo for about half a year now, and absolutely 0 experience with RUG....that said, the splash doesn't really add so much in terms of lines of play...i think. Should I go with what I know or try RUG? I feel like RUG would be better as it has more redundancy and ways to victory in a wide meta like a GP, considering I have no byes.
Hi guys. I plan on attending GP Boston this weekend. I am having some problems with the BGx matchup, which is notoriously good against this deck. Here is my list -2 cards:
I keep switching the 2 empty slots with 2x spreading seas or 2x twisted image. Twisted image is great vs affinity and pod, does nothing vs jund. Im pretty confident with my affinity and pod matchup, especially when I have the images but it does nothing vs Jund and other bg decks. Spreading seas can be nice against jund but is it worth the two slots when its still going to be a bad matchup?
My gameplan vs Jund is to largely forget about comboing off and let them damage themselves as much as they do and finish them off by hopefully drawing a bunch of bolts and snaps. Since Junk is becoming popular should one of these slots go to electrolyze? If so what should go in next? Thanks for any help, this weekend looks like it might be tough for a twin player.
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When people call for a ban on treasure cruise: "But I don't WANNA draw 3 cards!"
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1 Breeding Pool
4 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 tec edge
3 Sulfur Falls
1 desolate lighthouse
4 Deceiver Exarch
2 Pestermite
2 clique
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 dispel
2 electrolyze
2 flame slash
2 cryptic command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 peek
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
4 Splinter Twin
Sideboard
2 Ancient Grudge
2 anger of the gods
2 batterskull
2 relic
2 blood moon
2 negate
2 engineered explosives
1 dispel
maybe cut a negate for a keranos? any recommendations or is this match up pretty much a bye for them?
decks playing:
none
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Yeah, as a Jund player who is starting to pick up U/R, it is definitely true that UR is not a bye for Jund. Yes, Jund does a really good job of disrupting the combo with hand disruption and Abrupt Decay and will win Game 1 a lot on the back of just that. However, Snapcaster/Lightning Bolt with counterspell backup can definitely be enough to grind out to the long game vs. Jund.
In Games 2 and 3, the standard U/R sideboard strategy is to board out the combo vs. Jund and bring in the above mentioned haymakers (some combination of Shackles, Threads, Blood Moon, Batterskull, and Keranos). You only have so many Abrupt Decays and if one of those spell lands, it can be a rough match for Jund.
2 Ancient Grudge
2 batterskull
2 relic
2 anger of the gods
2 dispel
2 blood moon
3 engineered explosives
the 3 explosives is better against the meta aka board wipe for tokens and good vs merfolk affinity ect.I find threads mediocre since it can be abrupt decayed. and as for blood moon its too good not to have a couple in the side against the meta. Ive lost the 2 negates in the side which kinda sucks seeing as though there good vs uwr, burn and combo. I really wish the side board could be more than 15 cards...
dickmans tempo twin list for 2013 is looking like the better version of twin now with rock pod and prob tron soon being at the top
decks playing:
none
Can we get a brief tournament report? Also, where in general are you located? Just curious. You had mentioned possibly going to GP Boston/Worcester. I will be there, so let me know if you do happen to make it.
In other news, I will be testing Huntmaster again tomorrow night at the weekly Modern grind, but my hunch is that I'll be cutting it for the GP in favor of Vendilion Clique and either Thrun or more interaction. Will report back on my decisions.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Wondering what I should bring to the GP
On a side note this link has a RUG twin deck that has Twisted image and some interesting creature and card choices while also top 8ing and PTQ. Is twisted image a card that could go into RUG twin? I have seen multiple lists with it.
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
I'm loving it! Totally screws Jund, Tron, and UWR. Occassionally screws also mono colored decks especially if they have double to triple colored cc cards.
I'll post my decklist when I have the time.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
4 misty rainforest
3 sulfur falls
1 tectonic edge
1 desolate lighthouse
1 breeding pool
4 steam vents
1 mountain
4 island
4 serum visions
4 remand
2 cryptic command
2 dispel
4 splinter twin
4 lightning bolt
1 flame slash
2 spellskite
4 snapcaster mage
4 deciever exarch
2 pestermite
1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
2 blood moon
2 ancient grudge
2 batterskull
2 anger of the gods
1 counterflux
1 swan song
1 relic of progenitus
1 combust
1 threads of disloyalty
1 keranos, god of storms
1 echoing truth
I keep switching the 2 empty slots with 2x spreading seas or 2x twisted image. Twisted image is great vs affinity and pod, does nothing vs jund. Im pretty confident with my affinity and pod matchup, especially when I have the images but it does nothing vs Jund and other bg decks. Spreading seas can be nice against jund but is it worth the two slots when its still going to be a bad matchup?
My gameplan vs Jund is to largely forget about comboing off and let them damage themselves as much as they do and finish them off by hopefully drawing a bunch of bolts and snaps. Since Junk is becoming popular should one of these slots go to electrolyze? If so what should go in next? Thanks for any help, this weekend looks like it might be tough for a twin player.