I am inclined to agree on the hand disruption and I think this is a path, if not the path, that pod will lean towards from here out. with the intro of rhinos, we now have huge swings in our favor to give us the final push through many situations. adding more hand disruption, saying going up to 3 TS, main one and siding one sin collector and also maining or siding an entomber exarch gives us a huge advantage. one this that i have never liked about the thune/feeder combo is that it is just too clunky. the feeder does nothing to give us an advantage while it is on the field and even removes a 3 drop from our pod chain if we are trying to keep it on board to combo. further, adding in cards like sin collector or entomber give us value right away while positioning for the next rung of the pod ladder. they do their job on ETB effect and then can move on. or, we can resto them and then move on. they give a huge advantage in ways that the feeder cannot. and thune is good. but not great. it has to survive two turns to be of any use without the feeder on board. it basically telegraphs what we are going to do. i dont like it. twin can usually get away with telegraphing a little bit because they threaten combo so early. our combo is already midrange, why disrupt a midrange deck to throw in an unnecessary combo piece?
Little off topic but has anyone looked at the spoilers? I may be way off but that 5drop 4/4 elemental seems pretty strong. Great anti wrath card and getting a free creature every turn is awesome. Not to mention like 50% of our deck is creatures and they all gain the ability to morph for their cmc. Flipping up silver bullets as we need then seems good. It's like a top of the curve card that I feel really seals up the game. If it resolves you get another 6 power on board and you aren't worried about a anger or wrath effect.
The elemental would be really good in a Melira build using Viscera Seer. You could sacrifice/scry, make sure you hit, then get yourself a 2/2. Then Reveillark the saced guys back into play. I think that in the end it's a little too cute though.
Not a fan! you are still worried about anger and wrath effects. if they anger, we lose our psuedo card advantage. yes it starts over again next turn, but we lose the ability to bring back key pieces with E Wit or with reveillark. I dont like the idea at all. and this isnt the only deck dreaming of using the whisperwood elemental. I have played against too many decks that run anger for me to like this route at all. yes our deck has a huge advantage to be tapped here if this card is allowed to resolve and the board goes unhindered, but that is not likely in a format that is so centered around board control and creature removal. I see all of those 2/2 vanillas dying before we can morph them. or being exiled with anger and then we lose a lot of potential threats for a mediocre field advantage. and they arent even good pod targets, the 2/2 can only get us a 1 CMC card (birds or hierarch {or viscera if youre playing melira}) but, this is often not what we need. and the creature has to survive through their turn in order to morph it normally. yes it gives us a psuedo card draw that can turn into field advantage but I don't see it being what this deck needs. and its a 5 drop, our 5s are pretty solid as is with shrikmaw, thune (if you run combo), reveillark. I dont think there is enough advantage there. too gimmicky.
and thune is good. but not great. it has to survive two turns to be of any use without the feeder on board. it basically telegraphs what we are going to do
You're being severe here. Lark was already a good beater, Thune appears to be a better one. Feeder and it's Township effect is what makes the angel an even better card. That's why we play her and not BSA. Thune stays the strongest 5-drop for Junk Pod. Thune telegraphs she's going to win the game slow and sure.
The elemental looks like an insane CA engine :
- at 5 mana, you don't need more mana, so any topdeck land is a free 2/2;
- it puts uncounterable threats otb;
- it's bolt-proof, decay-proof;
- every ETB creature is instant speed
- anti-wrath effect.
I don't know if it fits to Pod or anywhere in the competitive pool, but it's a very sexy card on paper.
I think you're refering to the ability being uncounterable in your argument? This is true, and the threat of something nasty flipping is always there but I don't see it as our newest 5 CMC. And I'm still not sold on Thune as the strongest 5 CMC. It is very strong with feeder. but there is still that second part, with feeder. yes the lifelink is awesome and its a good blocker against delver and you can even chump a goyf and still get use out of its ability but we have so many other threats that Thune still feels win-more to me. Even the combo is usually not played unless necessary. I have removed it all together. I'm not sold on Thune. I was never sold on melira. I just dont think pod needs a combo. Its already super powerful. Look at the top 8 from madrid, no combo in #1.
The articles in Spanish, but the image worries me a bit. I translated it on chrome, and it says that they've already announced it, so it's probably BS, but I'd still like your input.
The articles in Spanish, but the image worries me a bit. I translated it on chrome, and it says that they've already announced it, so it's probably BS, but I'd still like your input.
Dec 27 Dec 28 is essentially another April Fools day over there. The article is a joke.
The articles in Spanish, but the image worries me a bit. I translated it on chrome, and it says that they've already announced it, so it's probably BS, but I'd still like your input.
sure hope thats BS...geez...modern without Pod is like peanut butter without Jelly...besides Treasure Cruise and Dig don't bother me much..only seems to make Modern more fun imho.
The elemental looks like an insane CA engine :
- every ETB creature is instant speed
I don't know if it fits to Pod or anywhere in the competitive pool, but it's a very sexy card on paper.
Actually it's a nonbo with ETB. They enter as generic 2/2s and when you flip them over the abilities don't trigger because they aren't entering. They're already there, ust turning face up. The creatures Pod plays get a lot worse when you can't get the ETB effect off them, especially against midrange matches where you are looking to grind off advantage with them. The free 2/2s are card advantage, but still seem awkward at best.
Little off topic but has anyone looked at the spoilers? I may be way off but that 5drop 4/4 elemental seems pretty strong. Great anti wrath card and getting a free creature every turn is awesome. Not to mention like 50% of our deck is creatures and they all gain the ability to morph for their cmc. Flipping up silver bullets as we need then seems good. It's like a top of the curve card that I feel really seals up the game. If it resolves you get another 6 power on board and you aren't worried about a anger or wrath effect.
The worst part about Whisperwood Elemental is that there's a huge half-turn window where it can get booted at instant speed for no value for you. And it's not even a 5+/X or a Trampler to compensate.
It seems to me like Whisperwood needs Viscera Seer to really generate value. Coincidentally enough the manifests pod into Seer. It would be a totally new build to take advantage of it though.
The elemental looks like an insane CA engine :
- every ETB creature is instant speed
I don't know if it fits to Pod or anywhere in the competitive pool, but it's a very sexy card on paper.
Actually it's a nonbo with ETB. They enter as generic 2/2s and when you flip them over the abilities don't trigger because they aren't entering. They're already there, ust turning face up. The creatures Pod plays get a lot worse when you can't get the ETB effect off them, especially against midrange matches where you are looking to grind off advantage with them. The free 2/2s are card advantage, but still seem awkward at best.
This needs to be highlighted. The elemental is garbage. You know how fun it is to play under Torpor Orb? You know how people have been playing two or even three Resto Angels to capitalise on the high concentration of EtB guys? I'm sure there's some other CA engine at 4-5 mana already printed that doesn't require as much investment of mana and/or topdeck babysitting to be useful.
Yep, my bad. Was late, took somebody else's misread as fact.
For some reason I considered for a sec manifested creatures would see them themselves add "when it's turned face-up, trigger their ETB". Which is absolutely not the case.
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Alright, played in a huge 18 man last night (that's alot for my area :)). Took second, and never got to play the guy who took first because everything turned out very strangely.
Round 1: Burn. 1-2.
Yep, I lost round 1 and still managed second. Game 1 I kept one land and Birds on the draw, and never drew a second land. He also turn 2 bolted my Birds, so I obviously lost. You can't always have it all. Game 2 I Chaliced for 1 turn 2, then Finks folowed by Rhino to prompt an auto scoop. Game 3 I am convinced my opponent was somehow cheating, and a spectator reports this may have been the case. I landed Chalice for 1. Next turn I played a Finks, which was met with a Skullcrack. He plays guys that are effectively acting as Chump blockers for my incoming wave of voice tokens, then two turns later (turn 4?) end of turn, double Skullcracks me, putting me to 2. He has no cards in hand, and is also at 2. I have almost a full grip, a Chalice on 1, and lethal on board. He does some weird maneuver with his deck, acting like he is straightening it out, but it was just very strange looking, and lo and behold, top decks the 4th Skullcrack. I was pretty devastated. All 4 Scullcracks. Not worried about the loss, as it was the result of super rare heavy mana screw game 1 and otherworldly draws game 3, which still almost weren't enough.
0-1.
Round 2: Scapeshift.
I sit down and almost cry when I see that I am about to go 0-2 haha. It turns out if you play correctly you can not only win, but do so easily. I was on the play, and had birds into wall into Rhino turn 3, end of turn Resto the Rhino and then Thoughtseize his Scapeshift after baiting a counter with the second Rhino. He never recovered. Game 2 I turn 1 dork, Turn 2 Sieze his Shift. Draw another Sieze, play it, baiting Remand. Play it again baiting Cryptic, then I Choke him, sealing the game off easily. I boarded in and never saw or needed Slaughter Games. Sieze and Disruption plus Choke may actually be enough. I do realize I drew pretty well though.
1-1.
Round 3: American Control. Love playing this kid. He dreads playing against me, so I sit down and crack a few boisterous jokes all the time and that unsettles him and gets him quakin a little bit, haha. I 2-0 him after getting Sigarda into play after he let a Redcap resolve, after which I baited a counter with Voice and played a Pod. He had already used his one of Supreme Verdict on me and 3 Snaps, and I had a Gavony out, so I just won with haste. Game 2 I ramped hard, turn 2 Finks, turn 3 Rhino, followed by double Seize. He only had two nonlands, and his draw was a useless bolt. He scooped.
2-1.
Round 4: Eternal Command. This is the best kid at the tournament, but Decay decks eat decks like his for breakfast usually. I turn 2 Finks, which he can't at all deal with. He eventually has to bounce it with Cryptic, but then I thoughtseize his mana leak away and just replay it. Eventually I get a Scooze on board and, in the clear, kick it up to 4 toughness. He scoops. Game 2 I ramped, Thoughtseized, Choked when he tapped out, then played Lingering Souls and dropped Gavony to speed it up. Was over in 3 minutes.
3-1.
I got second due to how strange the tiebreaker points were. Also the guy who beat me round 1 dropped at some point. Some terrible Polymorph deck got first.
Lessons and thoughts:
I played a grand total of one Pod all night, and while it was obviously fantastic, this just goes to show how strong the deck is Podless. I never even cared that I didn't have it.
Played Sigarda once, granted, in the one match it was epic. She won me a game, but it's hard to conclude that she is worth it main over a Baneslayer or a cheaper card. Needs further testing.
Be careful playing burn. Chalice and Finks are the best options you have. Don't be afraid to slam Chalice for 2 if you already have one set to 1. It's not terrible to bring in Spike Feeder by the way.
I'm having second thoughts about Slaughter Games now. I'm just not sure it is needed to beat Scapeshift. We have lifegain, fast clocks, land D if needed, Thoughtseize and a host of disruptive creatures, as well as Choke. Other decks like Living End, Tron, and Twin can also be combated without it. May actually axe it. Might give it one more run though.
I don't understand why you think whisper wood is better in an empty board than wing mate. Can you explain?
The only way playing Wingmate Roc on an empty board gives you 2 Flying 3/4's is if your board wasn't empty at the start of your turn, you attacked with at least one creature, and all your creatures traded with opposing creatures or died to removal. If both boards were empty at the start of your turn, an uninterrupted Whisperwood Elemental gives you 6 power by the start of their turn.
From my experience with Timely Hordemate, Raid is surprisingly bad in this deck. The guy you attacked with often died getting blocked by something bigger, traded with something, or died to removal. In essence, too often, you lose a guy to gain a guy later.
So, your argument is assuming that all creatures on the board traded and that there was 0 power shown on the board to begin with. I will take your assumptions and still argue wingmate as the better creature. Wingmate would give you two 3/4 fliers, therefore and equivalent 6 power to the power of whisperwood plus the manifested top card. however, roc also has a more resilient toughness and will survive to more of the removal in the format (anger of the gods and pyroclasm). if you assume you are playing a deck with removal, abrupt decay will not hit either. but it will hit the token. this limits the post removal board states to a singular 3/4 flier or a 4/4 with no evasion and no real advantage. the token you created died and left you with the potential to have lost a much needed creature draw or removal draw if you run whisperwood. on the other hand, losing the token from roc only means that next turn you only stand to gain 1 life instead of two. the evasion is a huge component here and I would much rather have the roc than a card that forces me to play cards from the top of my deck in a manner that completely negates my game plan. you have to effectively allow the card to be manifested, then resto it or let it die and e wit it to get any use out of the manifested card. further, it forces pod to play a strange sort of in between jack in the box game where we have to leave mana up to potentially flip the card to save it or cause a trade on a blocked attack. the only time pod leaves up mana is for removal, resto, or gavony. having to split our mana to make sure we can flip something that won't even give us an ETB is useless. It is a waste of time and no card advantage at all. Pod's advantage comes from the ETBs that you take away by playing elemental. And, on its own it is an underwhelming 5 drop.
as for its second ability, I can see very few, or even no scenario where I would want to put all my eggs in that basket. yes it has the potential to draw several cards if they board wipe, but I would not play a 5 drop just for that purpose. I would much rather play something like shriekmaw which will immediately effect their board or thune and bring the combo back in. its too finnicky and situation to be a useful card and it's potential to be effective in this build is negligibl due to a useless first ability.
I think Lectrys just said a single Roc was no better than Elemental + 2/2. Not sure it needs further debate. You're actually speaking of 2 cards that don't make the cut in Pod anyway.
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You're being severe here. Lark was already a good beater, Thune appears to be a better one. Feeder and it's Township effect is what makes the angel an even better card. That's why we play her and not BSA. Thune stays the strongest 5-drop for Junk Pod. Thune telegraphs she's going to win the game slow and sure.
The elemental looks like an insane CA engine :
- at 5 mana, you don't need more mana, so any topdeck land is a free 2/2;
- it puts uncounterable threats otb;
- it's bolt-proof, decay-proof;
- every ETB creature is instant speed
- anti-wrath effect.
I don't know if it fits to Pod or anywhere in the competitive pool, but it's a very sexy card on paper.
http://www.rebellion.es/magicrebel/articulo.php?idNoticia=3499
The articles in Spanish, but the image worries me a bit. I translated it on chrome, and it says that they've already announced it, so it's probably BS, but I'd still like your input.
Dec 27 Dec 28 is essentially another April Fools day over there. The article is a joke.
sure hope thats BS...geez...modern without Pod is like peanut butter without Jelly...besides Treasure Cruise and Dig don't bother me much..only seems to make Modern more fun imho.
Actually it's a nonbo with ETB. They enter as generic 2/2s and when you flip them over the abilities don't trigger because they aren't entering. They're already there, ust turning face up. The creatures Pod plays get a lot worse when you can't get the ETB effect off them, especially against midrange matches where you are looking to grind off advantage with them. The free 2/2s are card advantage, but still seem awkward at best.
The worst part about Whisperwood Elemental is that there's a huge half-turn window where it can get booted at instant speed for no value for you. And it's not even a 5+/X or a Trampler to compensate.
Oh well, at least it's better when you cast it into an empty board than Wingmate Roc or arguably Archangel of Thune is...and it's got that Dauntless Escort impression...
If you're in a removal-light meta, though, Whisperwood takes over the board faster than stuff like Thragtusk does.
This needs to be highlighted. The elemental is garbage. You know how fun it is to play under Torpor Orb? You know how people have been playing two or even three Resto Angels to capitalise on the high concentration of EtB guys? I'm sure there's some other CA engine at 4-5 mana already printed that doesn't require as much investment of mana and/or topdeck babysitting to be useful.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Yep, my bad. Was late, took somebody else's misread as fact.
For some reason I considered for a sec manifested creatures would see them themselves add "when it's turned face-up, trigger their ETB". Which is absolutely not the case.
Round 1: Burn. 1-2.
Yep, I lost round 1 and still managed second. Game 1 I kept one land and Birds on the draw, and never drew a second land. He also turn 2 bolted my Birds, so I obviously lost. You can't always have it all. Game 2 I Chaliced for 1 turn 2, then Finks folowed by Rhino to prompt an auto scoop. Game 3 I am convinced my opponent was somehow cheating, and a spectator reports this may have been the case. I landed Chalice for 1. Next turn I played a Finks, which was met with a Skullcrack. He plays guys that are effectively acting as Chump blockers for my incoming wave of voice tokens, then two turns later (turn 4?) end of turn, double Skullcracks me, putting me to 2. He has no cards in hand, and is also at 2. I have almost a full grip, a Chalice on 1, and lethal on board. He does some weird maneuver with his deck, acting like he is straightening it out, but it was just very strange looking, and lo and behold, top decks the 4th Skullcrack. I was pretty devastated. All 4 Scullcracks. Not worried about the loss, as it was the result of super rare heavy mana screw game 1 and otherworldly draws game 3, which still almost weren't enough.
0-1.
Round 2: Scapeshift.
I sit down and almost cry when I see that I am about to go 0-2 haha. It turns out if you play correctly you can not only win, but do so easily. I was on the play, and had birds into wall into Rhino turn 3, end of turn Resto the Rhino and then Thoughtseize his Scapeshift after baiting a counter with the second Rhino. He never recovered. Game 2 I turn 1 dork, Turn 2 Sieze his Shift. Draw another Sieze, play it, baiting Remand. Play it again baiting Cryptic, then I Choke him, sealing the game off easily. I boarded in and never saw or needed Slaughter Games. Sieze and Disruption plus Choke may actually be enough. I do realize I drew pretty well though.
1-1.
Round 3: American Control. Love playing this kid. He dreads playing against me, so I sit down and crack a few boisterous jokes all the time and that unsettles him and gets him quakin a little bit, haha. I 2-0 him after getting Sigarda into play after he let a Redcap resolve, after which I baited a counter with Voice and played a Pod. He had already used his one of Supreme Verdict on me and 3 Snaps, and I had a Gavony out, so I just won with haste. Game 2 I ramped hard, turn 2 Finks, turn 3 Rhino, followed by double Seize. He only had two nonlands, and his draw was a useless bolt. He scooped.
2-1.
Round 4: Eternal Command. This is the best kid at the tournament, but Decay decks eat decks like his for breakfast usually. I turn 2 Finks, which he can't at all deal with. He eventually has to bounce it with Cryptic, but then I thoughtseize his mana leak away and just replay it. Eventually I get a Scooze on board and, in the clear, kick it up to 4 toughness. He scoops. Game 2 I ramped, Thoughtseized, Choked when he tapped out, then played Lingering Souls and dropped Gavony to speed it up. Was over in 3 minutes.
3-1.
I got second due to how strange the tiebreaker points were. Also the guy who beat me round 1 dropped at some point. Some terrible Polymorph deck got first.
Lessons and thoughts:
I played a grand total of one Pod all night, and while it was obviously fantastic, this just goes to show how strong the deck is Podless. I never even cared that I didn't have it.
Played Sigarda once, granted, in the one match it was epic. She won me a game, but it's hard to conclude that she is worth it main over a Baneslayer or a cheaper card. Needs further testing.
Be careful playing burn. Chalice and Finks are the best options you have. Don't be afraid to slam Chalice for 2 if you already have one set to 1. It's not terrible to bring in Spike Feeder by the way.
I'm having second thoughts about Slaughter Games now. I'm just not sure it is needed to beat Scapeshift. We have lifegain, fast clocks, land D if needed, Thoughtseize and a host of disruptive creatures, as well as Choke. Other decks like Living End, Tron, and Twin can also be combated without it. May actually axe it. Might give it one more run though.
Thughtseize main is sweet.
The only way playing Wingmate Roc on an empty board gives you 2 Flying 3/4's is if your board wasn't empty at the start of your turn, you attacked with at least one creature, and all your creatures traded with opposing creatures or died to removal. If both boards were empty at the start of your turn, an uninterrupted Whisperwood Elemental gives you 6 power by the start of their turn.
From my experience with Timely Hordemate, Raid is surprisingly bad in this deck. The guy you attacked with often died getting blocked by something bigger, traded with something, or died to removal. In essence, too often, you lose a guy to gain a guy later.
as for its second ability, I can see very few, or even no scenario where I would want to put all my eggs in that basket. yes it has the potential to draw several cards if they board wipe, but I would not play a 5 drop just for that purpose. I would much rather play something like shriekmaw which will immediately effect their board or thune and bring the combo back in. its too finnicky and situation to be a useful card and it's potential to be effective in this build is negligibl due to a useless first ability.