Pit Keeper is still on trial, I had good success with it the last time I played but I need more than a couple good runs with the card. The Finks I want to keep because of Affinity and Burn being decks in the meta, Decay just has too many targets. Maybe I'll drop to 6 1 drop mana dorks.
If you drop to only 6 1 mana dorks I'd suggest another wall of roots. Cutting a finks is probably a good idea. I was hesitant to do it but did end up benefitting from it.
Finally reorganized the primer and adjusted the top description! Hate bears are now categorized, and within each category, they are ordered from most to least relevant in the current meta. Decklists are also categorized.
How do you guys usually board against Twin? Specifically, what do you board out? Do you take out things like Rec Sage, Shriekmaw, and Redcap?
Since Twin is turning into a fair deck with an endgame trump (much like us if we focused a bit more on the combo), I'd leave Shriekmaw and definitely Redcap in. I'd leave Rec Sage in if I saw Spellskite/Vedalken Shackles/equipment not named Batterskull and take it out if the only thing it can try to kill is Splinter Twin. I definitely leave/board Linvala in, leave/board Qasali Pridemage in, leave/board Spellskite in, board in creature removal, board in targeted discard, board out combo pieces (I might board out the entire combo)...it's tough figuring out what the next least relevant creatures are in the deck that you can board out, though. I might have to board out Kitchen Finks because the only guy it trades with or kills is Snapcaster Mage, and they don't care as much about 2 life as they do about needing to telegraph Exarchs.
About Qasali I agree with tempest but still have one question here. Let's say you're playing both (qasali + sage). Is that worth since it means you have two dead cards in your deck if come across a deck which doesn't run any artifact or enchantment. I have pretty stock list. I don't see other way than removing one of my restoration angel for sage but is that worth?
Little bit late, but if you don't see any artifacts or enchantments G1, you will see them G2 because people are going to have stuff in their sideboard for one of the big decks of the format. They're never dead cards once you think in terms of matches and not individual games. There are also enough decks that are reliant on artifacts/enchantments (Affinity, Tron, Twin, Bogles, B/W Tokens, enemy Pod decks, etc.) that having one card to counter hate and one to counter a key card is worthwhile. Generally, you have one main - Pridemage if you value the beatdown, Sage if you value preserving the Pod chain - and bring in the other against decks where you could use the Disenchant G1.
I sadly cut Grave Titan, after realizing one simple fact: I was mostly using it with Reveillark, and then sac'ing Reveillark to Pod for it for ultimate value. But there is no harm in waiting for your opponent to deal with Reveillark most of the time, and in all games where I Was able to durdle this hard, I would have probably won with or without the Titan. Trying a Sigarda/Baneslayer in the main.
Thank you. I felt like nobody in favor of the Grave Titan understood what I was writing a few pages ago. Finally, anybody who tries a 6-drop in Pod comes to the same conclusion : 5-drops are great in the format, 6-drops are no better, all data considered.
Sigarda is beast. Thrun turn 3-4 is an absolute winner in the MUs where some players would love to play a Titan.
Stretching here, that's also why Goyf ain't played. It's a better clock than Voice, Wall of Roots or Finks, but these are definitely better cards in the deck than Goyf. The thought process is led by a maze of data : Pod, curve, metagame, tempo, chains, etc... In most MUs, our kill is : Pod into value. If we don't get that in the first place, well we play cards like Goyf and Titans because one thinks he needs an extra win con. But actually Siege Rhino is a kill that works with Pod, and a pretty decent alternate win con. Thrun/Sigarda are "unkillable" top-curve win cons. No need to look further.
Back to that list : http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=8779&d=250122&f=MO.
Pretty interesting commitment.
-1 Redcap, -1 Witness, -1 Collector;
He plays 3 Rhinos, 2 Restos, 4 Voices and 3 Geists, a very (heavy) agressive build ! He keeps the combo, so leaves interactive creatures (no TS MD either). He plays 3 Pods only, well this is a mistake imo. He probably thought his midrange plan commitment would be enough no to suffer games without Pod in this particular event, which might have been the case since he ended up 2nd. But I'd be interested to see how he lost his finals, since his MD is well set up to beat Delver.
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I've actually seen several players drop collectors and witness. I don't run collector and I initially pulled wit for a third finks. But my list is super beat down heavy. I went back to blade splicer to boost my board state and make a new resto target. Now I have redcaps, splicers, rhinos, finks, rec sage, witness, exarch, spike feeder and pontiff as resto targets. And 8 of them pod into resto.
Ascendancy and Scapeshift are popular right now, and decks like Twin and Tron still destroy us game 1.
From there, do you want 2 TS MD (+ other disruptive creatures) to give yourself a chance game 1, or do you just concede game 1 for more creatures (which helps winning game 1 in other MUs) ?
Personnally I like playing TS MD and try to steal game 1 in bad MUs. But I know I change my mind every 2 weeks so...
Know that there's almost no downside playing TS overall. It's always good when you play it in the early turns.
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Are you running "grindy" or more combo oriented list? I am going for a more beatdown list but I still see the need for TS MD. I just don't really have cards that I want to cut lol. Since I built the list without them, it is a problem. If I had engineered the list with the TS already, I would not have an issue here. It just looking at the creatures I've chosen and why and how they fit the game plan, the only ones I can see that don't 100% boost the plan are wall of roots. But, its only a one of and its still good for the extra mana so I can pod it the turn it comes out or I can cast another creature. I don't know what to take out. I would only use 2 MB I think. Ill post my list in a bit. What do ya'll think of Woodland Cemetaryand Supetal Grovein the landbase?
So I've seen the discussion for Grave Titan on here several times, and after you posted this I suggested another Khans card, Wingmate Roc. It is still in the bounds of our normal pod chain in that it does not stretch us to that sixth mana if we have roc in our hand and it has a similar effect to Titan.
>Cons:
1) Only 6 power
2) Only two creatures
3) No deathtouch
Grave Titan
>Pros:
1) Huge body
2) 3 bodies when it enters
3) Deathtouch
>Cons:
1) High CMC
2) Not worth podding away a combo piece (usually)
3) "Win-harder"...If you are casting 6 drops or podding away angel for it then you are probably just showing off at that point.
Both can be considered "Win-more" cards. I favor the Roc because of its ability to gain us life and therefore trigger with Thune if it is on the board as well. I don't think that either Titan or Wingmate are necessary, but they add flavor to a deck that can often lack originality in a format where it is played by so many people. I applaud your choice of cards, I do not find it to be a poor one. Just thought to toss my two cents in.
Aven Mindcensor MD could be sthg I want in the current metagame, full of Pods and Scapeshift.
However I don't see how to help you about what slots to cut. I think you don't need 4 Finks in any Pod deck, maybe that's a cut you haven't done yet ?
Both can be considered "Win-more" cards.
Well, Roc is a very good card. But I think you better compare it to Archangel of Thune. They both have comparable qualities : lifegain, flying beater, 5-drop, 3/4 body.
I have close to no experience with Roc in modern, hard to figure out if it's better than Thune in a certain build.
What do ya'll think of Woodland Cemetaryand Supetal Grovein the landbase?
i run 3 thickets and still have room for petal. idk how my lands ended up that way. I still havent posted the list. Ill get to that tomorrow as my time is limited now. I never said Roc instead of Thune and did not mean to give that impression. I actually am thinking about maining it with thune. I think I would rather have the life triggers than the deathtouch from GT. I am currently only running 2 finks but i also went 30 creatures. most lists i see hover between 27-8 creatures so that is where i lost my TS MD. But, based on the style of play I want to achieve, the extra creatures gives me a more solid deck list and more flex spots in games two and three. IDK ill have to play test more. Thank you for the reply. I am also considering mindcensor MD and will let you know if I go that route and what success/drawbacks I find.
Well, got 4 rounds in with my list, and I tried to take lines that would maximize using all the cards I was testing, that probably cost me some percentage points but it was in an extremely tough field (lots of very good players, several play the SCG Invitational each quarter) and I wanted to evaluate the cards. I made a bunch of mid round notes on my life pad but I seem to have misplaced it.
Round 1 - URw Delver
I started game 1 on a mulligan to 5 on the draw and kept a no lander. I forget the exact hand but it was something like Birds of Paradise, Kitchen Finks, Eternal Witness, Thragtusk, Reclamation Sage. I didn't know what my opponent was on and this hand had potential if I could hit green mana. In the end I simply felt it was better than going to 4. The initial 7 was 5 green cards backed by Swamp/Plains as my lands and 6 was double Gavony Township with lots of colored needs like Voice. I missed my first land drop while my opponent went Mountain, Swiftspear and I thought the game was over but kept playing it out. Hit the second land drop with a green land (Temple Garden I think), played the Birds, and went from there. My opponent got stuck on two land while I went on to hit a pod and 5 lands. I needed a really fortunate sequence of plays to win the game but smart attacks and blocks eventually got me there. Most notable for me in this game was I tried to build up to Grave Titan but my opponent bolted the Thragtusk in response to the lifegain trigger just before I could pod it. This was the first of many attempted Grave Titans. Pod is just ridiculous, I was on a mulligan to 5, my opponent got 3 Treasure Cruises, and I still managed to win that game. As I said in the past (now several pages back) this deck grinds advantage... there is no other deck in the format that can be down 11 cards and still be in the game. The key play was my double board wipe. I played Pontiff, wiped my opponents board (2 unflipped Delvers, Pyromancer, token), then next turn my opponent played another Pyromancer and Delver, I podded Pontiff to Redcap, haunted his Swiftspear, shot Swiftspear with Redcap, and triggered another wipe. Plays like this are why Redcap is my bro over Rhino #2.
In game 2 I got to keep 7, my opponent hit all of his pod hate with double Stony Silence and flipped a Wear // Tear to Delver. I never hit a pod and just played a fair midrange game. I ended up stabilizing at 4 life, then bounced up and down between 4 and 5 with Ooze for several turns. There were two key plays in this game. The winning play was baiting a counterspell, then flashing in a Restoration Angel on his attack, eating a Delver, blinking my Finks, and then untapping into Gavony Township.
My opponent and I had a pretty long discussion after the round, it was one of the best rounds of Magic either of us has played in awhile. In the end he said it all came down to me simply outplaying him. I'm not sure if that's true or not but one of the other decks I have built in paper is UR Delver and I play the match a ton so I'm very familiar with it. He on the other hand hadn't played against pod in 4 or 5 months. Knowing everything about a matchup can be so valuable in winning.
1-0
Round 2 - Jund
On the subject of knowing matchups, I don't know the Jund match very well. I play against Jund every 2-3 months and it's always against this guy, but he plays against pod a lot. In game 1 his deck just doesn't do anything I care about while I go on to Gavony into a whole bunch of guys, then Thragtusk. He scoops to podding Thragtusk into Grave Titan, then on his EOT me flashing in Restoration Angel to blink the Grave Titan while he's at 6 life with no board to speak of.
In game 2 my opponent made an error. I knew he would be on 4 Angers while my hand was all Finks and Voices. On turn 3 I had double birds on two lands, he played a Liliana and -2'ed. That indicated to me that he didn't have the Anger and I was able to play out double Voice into some other stuff. The line could have lost to his topdeck, but he didn't hit it. Eventually he lost to Gavony advantage.
2-0
Round 3 - Soul Sisters
The guy playing Soul Sisters has been playing it for about 3 years now, he knows his deck very well. We had a good game 1 but I eventually lost because I left myself open to a topdecked Path to clear my blocker for his 20/20 Pridemate. I punted game 2 by playing a T2 pod without making sure I could get value out of it, had I been more patient I could have set up a solid Orzhov Pontiff blowout and I would have almost certainly won. Instead I played it on turn 2 or 3, took 2 damage without using it, then it ate a Sundering Growth that got the populate.
2-1
Round 4 - Living End
I figured I would be a huge dog in game 1 but again, pod just grinds out value. My strategy for game 1 involved Abrupt Decay on my own guys and generous podding. I managed to grind through double Living End, just off of pod value, the game eventually ended with me around 40 life. In game 2 my opponent slow played me, I brought in Slaughter Games and my opponent did a Living End on turn 3 (he knew about them from a conversation earlier in the night). I ended up having a double Slaughter Games hand but bringing them in didn't really work all that well, we went to turns and I lost to exacties via Street Wraith pumped by double Violent Outburst. A lot went wrong that game for me to lose it, from my opponent knowing about the Slaughter Games to being very free with my life total due to how game 1 played out. I'm pretty sure I would have easily won game 3 but time didn't cooperate.
2-1-1
So my impressions of the things I tried:
More Hierarchs/Fewer Birds - Tonight reinforced this notion for me even more. Exalted is amazing in a deck that's trying to attack and block and most of our creatures are right at the size that we always want an Exalted trigger. For example Finks gets so much better when it can smash through an X/4 and Siege Rhino with exalted is dumb. And if you want to think about the mirror, Linvala, Rhino, and Thune all beat the opposing copy of those cards if you've got Exalted.
8 dorks - I ran with 61 and I'm still looking for the cut, I lean towards a dork but at the same time I'm hesitant about cutting a 1 drop accelerant. I should probably go with 3 Birds/3 Hierarch but I just really like the 2 Birds/4 Hierarch route... until I hit a match where the Birds can block.
Slaughter Games - It had it's uses and if you can get the opponent with it by surprise it's pretty solid, however the Stomping Ground cost me life in every round and nearly every single game. I think that if I want to continue with this strategy the Stomping Ground needs to goto the sideboard.
Pit Keeper - He didn't see play once the entire night. I attribute this atleast in part to me focusing on trying to always pod up the chain to hit Grave Titan. But another part is that my graveyard just couldn't grow. Jund had Oozes eating my stuff, Soul Sisters had Paths, and Living End flipped the gy a lot. I was never in a position to pod for him, and the time I drew him he couldn't trigger. This is a large contrast to previous experiences with it.
No combo - I was fine with this, even though I know I don't have a real combo outside of Archangel/Ooze my opponents don't know that and they have to respect the cards I'm not running but might have.
Thragtusk at 5 - Thragtusk overperformed, I was so impressed that after just one night he's now a permanent fixture for me at 5. Most of the games I won were because of Tusk and most of what I lost was nearly turned around by it.
Grave Titan at 6 - I think it's just too slow. Pod is very good at getting out 3 and 4 drops and ok at 5 drops. The 6 drops are just too slow though, I kept track of things and in every game I could cast a 6 drop well before I could pod to it.
My MVP of the night was Gavony Township, I think one could make a good case that it's even better than Pod. I know a lot of people have been cutting to 2 Gavony lately based on it being mana intensive and colorless in a color heavy deck but I just don't agree with that at all. An active Gavony gives you an on board plan against so many decks. It's powerful and it dodges almost all of the hate people typically bring in against us. Plus with our acceleration we can get it up and running (with the ability to do other things) pretty quickly.
Good report. Makes me want to consider the 3rd Gavony, actually.
I agree that Slaughter Games is too taxing unless you move the Stomping Ground to the board. But even then, you have to ask yourself, "how willing am I to dilute the effectiveness of my SB in order to possibly win one to two games of (essentially) one match?". Probably not worth it unless you are regularly facing SKILLED Scapeshift players. Something like Choke or Acidic Slime is probably just better.
I notice that you absolutely loved Thragtusk, but also, you played against mostly fair decks where it could have mattered, and mattered severely. I'd reconsider your stance when thinking about the meta as a whole, however.
I agree that more Hierarchs is probably correct. 3/3 I think.
Updates on my end. Tournament Monday, going to be testing a Baneslayer main and a third MB Thoughtseize, as well as the third Gavony, and a slightly change in my mana dork split to 3/3/2.
Are you running "grindy" or more combo oriented list? I am going for a more beatdown list but I still see the need for TS MD. I just don't really have cards that I want to cut lol. Since I built the list without them, it is a problem. If I had engineered the list with the TS already, I would not have an issue here. It just looking at the creatures I've chosen and why and how they fit the game plan, the only ones I can see that don't 100% boost the plan are wall of roots. But, its only a one of and its still good for the extra mana so I can pod it the turn it comes out or I can cast another creature. I don't know what to take out. I would only use 2 MB I think. Ill post my list in a bit. What do ya'll think of Woodland Cemetaryand Supetal Grovein the landbase?
Stay away from checklands, they'll come in tapped way more than you would think and in this deck you need to consistently hit T1 green or black (especially green). If I had to pick a single checkland to use I would use Isolated Chapel that way it doesn't interfere with your T1 green plays.
I agree that Slaughter Games is too taxing unless you move the Stomping Ground to the board. But even then, you have to ask yourself, "how willing am I to dilute the effectiveness of my SB in order to possibly win one to two games of (essentially) one match?". Probably not worth it unless you are regularly facing SKILLED Scapeshift players. Something like Choke or Acidic Slime is probably just better.
I was thinking for a bit about what I wanted to Slaughter Games. It's obviously good against Scapeshift, it's good against Living End (provided they don't know and pull the trigger early... then again that seems to be the best line for their deck in the match), in hindsight it's actually pretty good against Soul Sisters or Martyr/Proc, it's good against Splinter Twin, it could give us a chance against RG Tron, it's good against Storm, and it's good against a couple others. That said it's definitely a meta call. I ran 4 and given that I also need to run sideboard lands to support it I don't want to drop below 4. So that's a lot of space taken up.
I notice that you absolutely loved Thragtusk, but also, you played against mostly fair decks where it could have mattered, and mattered severely. I'd reconsider your stance when thinking about the meta as a whole, however.
What would you suggest instead? Sigarda? That's my next choice. Right now I have 3 5 drops, they're Archangel of Thune (with no Spike Feeder, just Ooze), Thragtusk, and Shriekmaw.
Honestly I'm not sure a 5 drop is necessary, but you don't run the full combo so something beefier in that cc slot may be useful. I think acidic gives us a decent advantage in both removal on ETB effect and as a death toucher to trade with an oversized goyf or some other absurd creature. You still lose life but it can clear an opposing rhino too.
It's obviously good against Scapeshift, it's good against Living End [...] against Soul Sisters or Martyr/Proc, Splinter Twin, it could give us a chance against RG Tron, it's good against Storm
Aside Scapeshift, none of these decks demand the uncounterable clause : Memoricide and Stain the Mind do the job without a splash. It's also good VS Ascendancy, Ad Nauseam, Through the Breach, well... every combo deck.
Splinter Twin is specific because, if they play counterspells (4 untapped lands needed though), well you disrupt their combo with removal spells in the first place.
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Honestly I'm not sure a 5 drop is necessary, but you don't run the full combo so something beefier in that cc slot may be useful. I think acidic gives us a decent advantage in both removal on ETB effect and as a death toucher to trade with an oversized goyf or some other absurd creature. You still lose life but it can clear an opposing rhino too.
5 drops are pretty good, 6 drops are a lot more questionable. If you want to kill an oversized Goyf you already have Shriekmaw in the same cmc, and it has evasion to actually present a clock. The best answer to Rhino honestly is to have you own rhinos, with exalted you win the race and keep them on a clock.
It's obviously good against Scapeshift, it's good against Living End [...] against Soul Sisters or Martyr/Proc, Splinter Twin, it could give us a chance against RG Tron, it's good against Storm
Aside Scapeshift, none of these decks demand the uncounterable clause : Memoricide and Stain the Mind do the job without a splash. It's also good VS Ascendancy, Ad Nauseam, Through the Breach, well... every combo deck.
Splinter Twin is specific because, if they play counterspells (4 untapped lands needed though), well you disrupt their combo with removal spells in the first place.
That's a fair point, Memoricide could just be better for us, but I'm going to give Slaughter Games one more tournament since I can find the sideboard space. I'm pretty sure we don't want Stain the Mind, if the goal is a t3 spell with acceleration, Stain requires a 1 drop and 2 drop where Memoricide only requires a 1 drop.
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If you drop to only 6 1 mana dorks I'd suggest another wall of roots. Cutting a finks is probably a good idea. I was hesitant to do it but did end up benefitting from it.
Since Twin is turning into a fair deck with an endgame trump (much like us if we focused a bit more on the combo), I'd leave Shriekmaw and definitely Redcap in. I'd leave Rec Sage in if I saw Spellskite/Vedalken Shackles/equipment not named Batterskull and take it out if the only thing it can try to kill is Splinter Twin. I definitely leave/board Linvala in, leave/board Qasali Pridemage in, leave/board Spellskite in, board in creature removal, board in targeted discard, board out combo pieces (I might board out the entire combo)...it's tough figuring out what the next least relevant creatures are in the deck that you can board out, though. I might have to board out Kitchen Finks because the only guy it trades with or kills is Snapcaster Mage, and they don't care as much about 2 life as they do about needing to telegraph Exarchs.
Little bit late, but if you don't see any artifacts or enchantments G1, you will see them G2 because people are going to have stuff in their sideboard for one of the big decks of the format. They're never dead cards once you think in terms of matches and not individual games. There are also enough decks that are reliant on artifacts/enchantments (Affinity, Tron, Twin, Bogles, B/W Tokens, enemy Pod decks, etc.) that having one card to counter hate and one to counter a key card is worthwhile. Generally, you have one main - Pridemage if you value the beatdown, Sage if you value preserving the Pod chain - and bring in the other against decks where you could use the Disenchant G1.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Thank you. I felt like nobody in favor of the Grave Titan understood what I was writing a few pages ago. Finally, anybody who tries a 6-drop in Pod comes to the same conclusion : 5-drops are great in the format, 6-drops are no better, all data considered.
Sigarda is beast. Thrun turn 3-4 is an absolute winner in the MUs where some players would love to play a Titan.
Stretching here, that's also why Goyf ain't played. It's a better clock than Voice, Wall of Roots or Finks, but these are definitely better cards in the deck than Goyf. The thought process is led by a maze of data : Pod, curve, metagame, tempo, chains, etc... In most MUs, our kill is : Pod into value. If we don't get that in the first place, well we play cards like Goyf and Titans because one thinks he needs an extra win con. But actually Siege Rhino is a kill that works with Pod, and a pretty decent alternate win con. Thrun/Sigarda are "unkillable" top-curve win cons. No need to look further.
Back to that list : http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=8779&d=250122&f=MO.
Pretty interesting commitment.
-1 Redcap, -1 Witness, -1 Collector;
He plays 3 Rhinos, 2 Restos, 4 Voices and 3 Geists, a very (heavy) agressive build ! He keeps the combo, so leaves interactive creatures (no TS MD either). He plays 3 Pods only, well this is a mistake imo. He probably thought his midrange plan commitment would be enough no to suffer games without Pod in this particular event, which might have been the case since he ended up 2nd. But I'd be interested to see how he lost his finals, since his MD is well set up to beat Delver.
For me, sometimes if don't have a birds of paradise / noble hierarch you can easily pod for reclamation sage to destroy some artifacts/enchantments.
From there, do you want 2 TS MD (+ other disruptive creatures) to give yourself a chance game 1, or do you just concede game 1 for more creatures (which helps winning game 1 in other MUs) ?
Personnally I like playing TS MD and try to steal game 1 in bad MUs. But I know I change my mind every 2 weeks so...
Know that there's almost no downside playing TS overall. It's always good when you play it in the early turns.
Wingmate Roc
>Pros:
1) Evasion
2) 5 CMC
3) 2 decently sized bodies
>Cons:
1) Only 6 power
2) Only two creatures
3) No deathtouch
Grave Titan
>Pros:
1) Huge body
2) 3 bodies when it enters
3) Deathtouch
>Cons:
1) High CMC
2) Not worth podding away a combo piece (usually)
3) "Win-harder"...If you are casting 6 drops or podding away angel for it then you are probably just showing off at that point.
Both can be considered "Win-more" cards. I favor the Roc because of its ability to gain us life and therefore trigger with Thune if it is on the board as well. I don't think that either Titan or Wingmate are necessary, but they add flavor to a deck that can often lack originality in a format where it is played by so many people. I applaud your choice of cards, I do not find it to be a poor one. Just thought to toss my two cents in.
I run the Thune combo, been playing it for nearly a year now. Here's a list among those I play :
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Temple Garden
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
3 Razorverge Thicket
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Gavony Township
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Wall of Roots
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Spike Feeder
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Restoration Angel
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Siege Rhino
1 Shriekmaw
1 Archangel of Thune
4 Birthing Pod
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
Aven Mindcensor MD could be sthg I want in the current metagame, full of Pods and Scapeshift.
However I don't see how to help you about what slots to cut. I think you don't need 4 Finks in any Pod deck, maybe that's a cut you haven't done yet ?
Well, Roc is a very good card. But I think you better compare it to Archangel of Thune. They both have comparable qualities : lifegain, flying beater, 5-drop, 3/4 body.
I have close to no experience with Roc in modern, hard to figure out if it's better than Thune in a certain build.
Well I can tell Woodland Cemetery is needed in a build with Sin Collector + Entomber Exarch in the MD. Or play 2 Swamps. On the other hand, Sunpetal Grove looks slightly worse than the 3rd Thicket in any build. Stirring Wildwood would have my preference for an extra or substitional GW land.
Round 1 - URw Delver
I started game 1 on a mulligan to 5 on the draw and kept a no lander. I forget the exact hand but it was something like Birds of Paradise, Kitchen Finks, Eternal Witness, Thragtusk, Reclamation Sage. I didn't know what my opponent was on and this hand had potential if I could hit green mana. In the end I simply felt it was better than going to 4. The initial 7 was 5 green cards backed by Swamp/Plains as my lands and 6 was double Gavony Township with lots of colored needs like Voice. I missed my first land drop while my opponent went Mountain, Swiftspear and I thought the game was over but kept playing it out. Hit the second land drop with a green land (Temple Garden I think), played the Birds, and went from there. My opponent got stuck on two land while I went on to hit a pod and 5 lands. I needed a really fortunate sequence of plays to win the game but smart attacks and blocks eventually got me there. Most notable for me in this game was I tried to build up to Grave Titan but my opponent bolted the Thragtusk in response to the lifegain trigger just before I could pod it. This was the first of many attempted Grave Titans. Pod is just ridiculous, I was on a mulligan to 5, my opponent got 3 Treasure Cruises, and I still managed to win that game. As I said in the past (now several pages back) this deck grinds advantage... there is no other deck in the format that can be down 11 cards and still be in the game. The key play was my double board wipe. I played Pontiff, wiped my opponents board (2 unflipped Delvers, Pyromancer, token), then next turn my opponent played another Pyromancer and Delver, I podded Pontiff to Redcap, haunted his Swiftspear, shot Swiftspear with Redcap, and triggered another wipe. Plays like this are why Redcap is my bro over Rhino #2.
In game 2 I got to keep 7, my opponent hit all of his pod hate with double Stony Silence and flipped a Wear // Tear to Delver. I never hit a pod and just played a fair midrange game. I ended up stabilizing at 4 life, then bounced up and down between 4 and 5 with Ooze for several turns. There were two key plays in this game. The winning play was baiting a counterspell, then flashing in a Restoration Angel on his attack, eating a Delver, blinking my Finks, and then untapping into Gavony Township.
My opponent and I had a pretty long discussion after the round, it was one of the best rounds of Magic either of us has played in awhile. In the end he said it all came down to me simply outplaying him. I'm not sure if that's true or not but one of the other decks I have built in paper is UR Delver and I play the match a ton so I'm very familiar with it. He on the other hand hadn't played against pod in 4 or 5 months. Knowing everything about a matchup can be so valuable in winning.
1-0
Round 2 - Jund
On the subject of knowing matchups, I don't know the Jund match very well. I play against Jund every 2-3 months and it's always against this guy, but he plays against pod a lot. In game 1 his deck just doesn't do anything I care about while I go on to Gavony into a whole bunch of guys, then Thragtusk. He scoops to podding Thragtusk into Grave Titan, then on his EOT me flashing in Restoration Angel to blink the Grave Titan while he's at 6 life with no board to speak of.
In game 2 my opponent made an error. I knew he would be on 4 Angers while my hand was all Finks and Voices. On turn 3 I had double birds on two lands, he played a Liliana and -2'ed. That indicated to me that he didn't have the Anger and I was able to play out double Voice into some other stuff. The line could have lost to his topdeck, but he didn't hit it. Eventually he lost to Gavony advantage.
2-0
Round 3 - Soul Sisters
The guy playing Soul Sisters has been playing it for about 3 years now, he knows his deck very well. We had a good game 1 but I eventually lost because I left myself open to a topdecked Path to clear my blocker for his 20/20 Pridemate. I punted game 2 by playing a T2 pod without making sure I could get value out of it, had I been more patient I could have set up a solid Orzhov Pontiff blowout and I would have almost certainly won. Instead I played it on turn 2 or 3, took 2 damage without using it, then it ate a Sundering Growth that got the populate.
2-1
Round 4 - Living End
I figured I would be a huge dog in game 1 but again, pod just grinds out value. My strategy for game 1 involved Abrupt Decay on my own guys and generous podding. I managed to grind through double Living End, just off of pod value, the game eventually ended with me around 40 life. In game 2 my opponent slow played me, I brought in Slaughter Games and my opponent did a Living End on turn 3 (he knew about them from a conversation earlier in the night). I ended up having a double Slaughter Games hand but bringing them in didn't really work all that well, we went to turns and I lost to exacties via Street Wraith pumped by double Violent Outburst. A lot went wrong that game for me to lose it, from my opponent knowing about the Slaughter Games to being very free with my life total due to how game 1 played out. I'm pretty sure I would have easily won game 3 but time didn't cooperate.
2-1-1
So my impressions of the things I tried:
More Hierarchs/Fewer Birds - Tonight reinforced this notion for me even more. Exalted is amazing in a deck that's trying to attack and block and most of our creatures are right at the size that we always want an Exalted trigger. For example Finks gets so much better when it can smash through an X/4 and Siege Rhino with exalted is dumb. And if you want to think about the mirror, Linvala, Rhino, and Thune all beat the opposing copy of those cards if you've got Exalted.
8 dorks - I ran with 61 and I'm still looking for the cut, I lean towards a dork but at the same time I'm hesitant about cutting a 1 drop accelerant. I should probably go with 3 Birds/3 Hierarch but I just really like the 2 Birds/4 Hierarch route... until I hit a match where the Birds can block.
Slaughter Games - It had it's uses and if you can get the opponent with it by surprise it's pretty solid, however the Stomping Ground cost me life in every round and nearly every single game. I think that if I want to continue with this strategy the Stomping Ground needs to goto the sideboard.
Pit Keeper - He didn't see play once the entire night. I attribute this atleast in part to me focusing on trying to always pod up the chain to hit Grave Titan. But another part is that my graveyard just couldn't grow. Jund had Oozes eating my stuff, Soul Sisters had Paths, and Living End flipped the gy a lot. I was never in a position to pod for him, and the time I drew him he couldn't trigger. This is a large contrast to previous experiences with it.
No combo - I was fine with this, even though I know I don't have a real combo outside of Archangel/Ooze my opponents don't know that and they have to respect the cards I'm not running but might have.
Thragtusk at 5 - Thragtusk overperformed, I was so impressed that after just one night he's now a permanent fixture for me at 5. Most of the games I won were because of Tusk and most of what I lost was nearly turned around by it.
Grave Titan at 6 - I think it's just too slow. Pod is very good at getting out 3 and 4 drops and ok at 5 drops. The 6 drops are just too slow though, I kept track of things and in every game I could cast a 6 drop well before I could pod to it.
My MVP of the night was Gavony Township, I think one could make a good case that it's even better than Pod. I know a lot of people have been cutting to 2 Gavony lately based on it being mana intensive and colorless in a color heavy deck but I just don't agree with that at all. An active Gavony gives you an on board plan against so many decks. It's powerful and it dodges almost all of the hate people typically bring in against us. Plus with our acceleration we can get it up and running (with the ability to do other things) pretty quickly.
I agree that Slaughter Games is too taxing unless you move the Stomping Ground to the board. But even then, you have to ask yourself, "how willing am I to dilute the effectiveness of my SB in order to possibly win one to two games of (essentially) one match?". Probably not worth it unless you are regularly facing SKILLED Scapeshift players. Something like Choke or Acidic Slime is probably just better.
I notice that you absolutely loved Thragtusk, but also, you played against mostly fair decks where it could have mattered, and mattered severely. I'd reconsider your stance when thinking about the meta as a whole, however.
I agree that more Hierarchs is probably correct. 3/3 I think.
Updates on my end. Tournament Monday, going to be testing a Baneslayer main and a third MB Thoughtseize, as well as the third Gavony, and a slightly change in my mana dork split to 3/3/2.
Stay away from checklands, they'll come in tapped way more than you would think and in this deck you need to consistently hit T1 green or black (especially green). If I had to pick a single checkland to use I would use Isolated Chapel that way it doesn't interfere with your T1 green plays.
I was thinking for a bit about what I wanted to Slaughter Games. It's obviously good against Scapeshift, it's good against Living End (provided they don't know and pull the trigger early... then again that seems to be the best line for their deck in the match), in hindsight it's actually pretty good against Soul Sisters or Martyr/Proc, it's good against Splinter Twin, it could give us a chance against RG Tron, it's good against Storm, and it's good against a couple others. That said it's definitely a meta call. I ran 4 and given that I also need to run sideboard lands to support it I don't want to drop below 4. So that's a lot of space taken up.
What would you suggest instead? Sigarda? That's my next choice. Right now I have 3 5 drops, they're Archangel of Thune (with no Spike Feeder, just Ooze), Thragtusk, and Shriekmaw.
Aside Scapeshift, none of these decks demand the uncounterable clause : Memoricide and Stain the Mind do the job without a splash. It's also good VS Ascendancy, Ad Nauseam, Through the Breach, well... every combo deck.
Splinter Twin is specific because, if they play counterspells (4 untapped lands needed though), well you disrupt their combo with removal spells in the first place.
5 drops are pretty good, 6 drops are a lot more questionable. If you want to kill an oversized Goyf you already have Shriekmaw in the same cmc, and it has evasion to actually present a clock. The best answer to Rhino honestly is to have you own rhinos, with exalted you win the race and keep them on a clock.
That's a fair point, Memoricide could just be better for us, but I'm going to give Slaughter Games one more tournament since I can find the sideboard space. I'm pretty sure we don't want Stain the Mind, if the goal is a t3 spell with acceleration, Stain requires a 1 drop and 2 drop where Memoricide only requires a 1 drop.