So I just read Ari Lax's article about Gitaxian Probe, in it he says it would be bad in pod because we already heavily use our life total but I'm not so sure. Has anyone ever given it a try? I'm really bad at deriving hidden information so getting a look at someones hand is good, it also draws us into powerful cards like Birthing Pod and Gavony Township more reliably. The whole 56 card thing is nice and we do run 7-8 manadorks that are capable of producing blue. A singleton blue shock isn't out of the question either if you're willing to drop from 4 basics to 3 and it can even be found off of Misty Rainforest. The downside seems to me that because we're a toolbox deck there's a distinct loss of options in dropping from 60 to 56 cards. I know the legacy pod deck (BUG Nic Fit) actually runs 61 or sometimes 62 cards on the principal that the extra options outweigh the downside of extra cards. But this is Modern not Legacy and as things become more streamlined we're actually seeing less need to be diverse so a smaller toolbox could be ok in the current meta.
What do people think? I may give it a try at our next local Modern (our most recent was this past Friday but I wanted something different so I played eggs... and was punished severely, back to Pod for me).
Not sure how it will work out but I'm going to try my above Probe idea tomorrow. I'll only get a couple games in since it's not a dedicated Modern night but I should get some feedback. Going to try this list:
Debating a blue land over the second Forest, but the question is if so which one. Watery Grave can be found by all 8 fetches but it's basically just swamp+life payment so I don't want to run it. On the other hand, while I think 3 basic Forests is overkill I've never been unhappy to have a second one so there's a pretty big cost to running it. Maybe I shouldn't even bother trying to play probe without paying life and instead counter that by fetching more basics which probe lets you do slightly easier since your land ratio is higher at 22/56 than 23/60.
The other question I'm having is the cut for Restoration Angel. I want to put it MB but the question is what comes out for it. Right now I'm thinking Redcap should be the cut. I love Redcap but I'm a bit high on removal right now for the archetype so I could probably trim one card without issue. On the other hand Redcap is one of the best cards to use with Restoration Angel so maybe that's not right... anyone have an opinion?
This list is pretty far off from the stock lists but it's full of things I want to try. Namely Sin Collector/Exarch MB, some sideboard plans like Pharika (seems like a very strong way to stabilize against Zoo and such), and the Probe idea. I'm pretty sure atleast 2 of the 3 won't work well but I want to try them out.
I'm doing the forum reorganization and have a question about Junk Pod (no Meliras involved). Are you guys mostly discussing the no-Melira strategies here? Or does it make sense to start a new thread for that strategy? Melira Pod is solidly Proven, but Junk Pod (which may deserve its own thread) qualifies for Established on its own. Let me know what you guys think.
Most of the discussion has been about Melira Pod, every couple pages there's a non Melira question that gets brought up but it hasn't been a huge part of the discussion. I could see two threads so that people know where to post, but to be honest it's very easy to drift between the two so it would probably just split the conversation. This isn't really a high traffic thread either... it gets maybe 2 posts per day on average.
I believe value (combo-less) Junk Pod should get its own thread, but Melira and Angel Pod can be merged together as many decks run both combos and the rest of the decks that only play 1 combo are nearly identical.
Value Junk Pod would play cards like Lingering Souls, Thrun, Acidic Slime, Sigarda, more Voices, more Restoration Angels, etc and have much less in common with the combo versions of the deck, but would also probably be less competitive and has yet to prove itself.
Not sure how it will work out but I'm going to try my above Probe idea tomorrow. I'll only get a couple games in since it's not a dedicated Modern night but I should get some feedback. Going to try this list:
Debating a blue land over the second Forest, but the question is if so which one. Watery Grave can be found by all 8 fetches but it's basically just swamp+life payment so I don't want to run it. On the other hand, while I think 3 basic Forests is overkill I've never been unhappy to have a second one so there's a pretty big cost to running it. Maybe I shouldn't even bother trying to play probe without paying life and instead counter that by fetching more basics which probe lets you do slightly easier since your land ratio is higher at 22/56 than 23/60.
The other question I'm having is the cut for Restoration Angel. I want to put it MB but the question is what comes out for it. Right now I'm thinking Redcap should be the cut. I love Redcap but I'm a bit high on removal right now for the archetype so I could probably trim one card without issue. On the other hand Redcap is one of the best cards to use with Restoration Angel so maybe that's not right... anyone have an opinion?
This list is pretty far off from the stock lists but it's full of things I want to try. Namely Sin Collector/Exarch MB, some sideboard plans like Pharika (seems like a very strong way to stabilize against Zoo and such), and the Probe idea. I'm pretty sure atleast 2 of the 3 won't work well but I want to try them out.
Never take out Redcap if you play with Melira. Against Twin, Tron and the mirror infinite life sometimes is not enough, and you might need a way to deal infinite damage as well. But RestoAngel is kinda of an auto include since you have Exarch and Collector main, but you already have one. You want to add another?
Also, having both Canonist and Eidolon against Storm seems like overkill. If there is lots of Storm where you play, I think it's better to play a hoser main than two hosers side. Have you tested it?
I'm doing the forum reorganization and have a question about Junk Pod (no Meliras involved). Are you guys mostly discussing the no-Melira strategies here? Or does it make sense to start a new thread for that strategy? Melira Pod is solidly Proven, but Junk Pod (which may deserve its own thread) qualifies for Established on its own. Let me know what you guys think.
Do you mean Angel Pod or combo-less Pod? I agree with @Wizards, Pod with combo (Angel/Melira) are basically the same deck, but without combo can be very different, at least in how the deck plays.
I believe value (combo-less) Junk Pod should get its own thread, but Melira and Angel Pod can be merged together as many decks run both combos and the rest of the decks that only play 1 combo are nearly identical.
I already said my piece on it but this is a better way to phrase it. I think there's already a thread in just plain deck construction about comboless pod. Angel/Melira/Anything else combo is pretty similar, it's easiest to just keep them lumped together.
Never take out Redcap if you play with Melira. Against Twin, Tron and the mirror infinite life sometimes is not enough, and you might need a way to deal infinite damage as well. But RestoAngel is kinda of an auto include since you have Exarch and Collector main, but you already have one. You want to add another?
Also, having both Canonist and Eidolon against Storm seems like overkill. If there is lots of Storm where you play, I think it's better to play a hoser main than two hosers side. Have you tested it?
Sorry, guess I wasn't clear I had already made those swaps. A Restoration Angel for the second Redcap which was moved to the SB. I love Redcap though so I'm not happy about that. Given my 4 drops which two out of these would you put in the board (or cut entirely) keeping in mind that the decks to beat in order to take an event down are Scapeshift, Storm, and UWR?
2 Murderous Redcap
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Restoration Angel
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
I actually like Canonist+Eidolon because the top tables always have Storm, it's a favorite of the better players so in order to win you have to beat it. It's not common enough to justify MB hate though, especially with Sin Collector/Entomber Exarch in the main (both of which are partially in response to Storm). The reason I like the two hosers though is because it's easier to Chord into Canonist which could be relevant such as in a situation where it's turn 3 and they're on the play with a hand that can go off. But in games 2 and 3 if you have time Eidolon is a superior card since it doesn't die to Bolt. With two cards I'm also twice as likely to naturally draw it and both my 1 drops and my 2 drops can be turned into hate with a Pod.
Anyways I got some testing in with the Probes, on one hand they seemed to help. More than the "56" cards the information was big as it really let me plan out what to Pod and Chord for, in general the life loss wasn't a big deal either but I was more diligent in fetching basics... the information helped in that regard to as I knew ahead of time what mana I needed to have to make my plays. Specifically I really liked having more things to Eternal Witness for, Witness for information+card draw was pretty solid (not that Witness is ever really bad). On the other hand, I was still using more of my life total and had a few games against Burn which is already won or lost on razor thin life margins. I think the Burn match dropped from 50/50 to 30/70 by the change. That or I just drew bad. Eidolon especially is hugely punishing.
I have a quick budget-related question. If this needs to be moved to the budget forum, then I apologize.
I've built a pretty standard Melira pod list, but am still missing some fetches and 1 Noble Hierarch. Right now I only have 2 Verdant Catacombs. So I'm wondering what would be more valuable to this deck: a third Hierarch or a third (and possibly fourth) Catacomb? Already have everything else except the Rainforests.
I've been playing with Restoration Angel more and it is so insane. I remember a couple years back we were all playing it but I don't remember why everyone moved away from it. It's as awkward as the Thragtusk into Restoration Angel curve of standard but one of my favorite plays so far has been to pod Sin Collector into Restoration Angel with a Reveillark on the board. Then flicker the Reveillark to return the Sin Collector+something to play. A lot has to go right for that play to happen but man does it feel good when it does.
I have a quick budget-related question. If this needs to be moved to the budget forum, then I apologize.
I've built a pretty standard Melira pod list, but am still missing some fetches and 1 Noble Hierarch. Right now I only have 2 Verdant Catacombs. So I'm wondering what would be more valuable to this deck: a third Hierarch or a third (and possibly fourth) Catacomb? Already have everything else except the Rainforests.
The fetches are better than the Hierarchs. The mana fixing is very helpful. In order of cards I would first max out on Catacombs, then get Misty Rainforest/Marsh Flats (there's merit to each, especially if you like a basic Plains), and then get Hierarch last. As far as Hierarch goes it's the best dork but Birds of Paradise, Wall of Roots, and even Avacyn's Pilgrim can do a good enough impersonation. It's worth pointing out that no one has even figured out how many Hierarchs the lists want it varies from 2 to 4 these days.
In pure budget terms, we know it's going to be atleast a year before fetches get a reprint but Hierarch is fair game anywhere (probably MM2).
Hi guys, any advice of sideboard card for ub mill matchup?
I don't know the specific list you mean but if that's a big part of your meta can they ever beat a single Emrakul/Kozilek out of the board? I've done that against mill strategies from time to time.
A single Gaea's Blessing and/or Loaming Shaman from the sideboard can help a lot in the Mill matchup. It'll always be a hard matchup though; with 8 fetches, 4 pods and 3 chords, you activate their Archive Traps for free a lot.
Hi guys, any advice of sideboard card for ub mill matchup?
You almost don't need any sideboard for it. Reveillark will reanimate Melira and Murderous Redcap. That's two pieces of your combo for 1 card which they set up for you. Eternal Witness can do the same thing. Also if you can't combo out then just beef up a Scavenging Ooze and win in a couple swings. Use the graveyard to your advantage, but if you have to then I'd say side in things such as Ethersworn Canonist to stop their Archive Traps and Thoughtseize to take out their other spells.
The question is what do you want the Golgari Charms for? Are you looking to protect your board from wrath? You already have a -1/-1 option in Orzhov Pontiff and you can destroy enchantments with Harmonic Sliver (or the new guy) and Qasali Pridemage.
If it is to protect from wrath, what matchups are you not finding your persist guys, Reveillark, and Eternal Witness not sufficient in?
You can beat Anger of the Gods with Burrenton Forge-Tender, you can even Chord for it in response to Anger, and best of all holding up for the Chord can be disguised as not wanting to extend further into the Anger.
Hello, I am trying to get together a bunch of modern staples in anticipation of a price spike caused by a fetchland reprint (not saying it will be soon, but definitely within 3 years). One of the things I wanted to do was to get a "Pod tool-box" together so I could have all of the cards I would want to run even if the meta changes. What do you guys think would consist of such a tool-box? P.S. Currently running Junk Melira Pod, the list Jacob Wilson played at PT BNG.
If I were you I would go check mtgtop8 for all the hate bears decks and pod decks to get a list of good pod creatures (check sideboard too). You do the union of all those creatures and get at least one of them. Like :
Hello, I am trying to get together a bunch of modern staples in anticipation of a price spike caused by a fetchland reprint (not saying it will be soon, but definitely within 3 years). One of the things I wanted to do was to get a "Pod tool-box" together so I could have all of the cards I would want to run even if the meta changes. What do you guys think would consist of such a tool-box? P.S. Currently running Junk Melira Pod, the list Jacob Wilson played at PT BNG.
ElCascador gave you sideboard option creatures. That's a start, but the mainboard toolbox creatures you're going to want are:
There are a ton of other creatures, but those are very common. Kitchen Finks might not just be toolbox, but a great utility creature, the rest are 1 or 2-ofs for toolbox reasons. The other part of the deck is the consider the mana dorks. Birds of Paradise and Wall of Roots are pretty easy to get, but Noble Hierarch is very pricy, and I don't expect it to go down in price.
What do people think? I may give it a try at our next local Modern (our most recent was this past Friday but I wanted something different so I played eggs... and was punished severely, back to Pod for me).
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Woodland Cemetery
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Gavony Township
Creatures 26
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Wall of Roots
1 Viscera Seer
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Cartel Aristocrat
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sin Collector
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Restoration Angel
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Shriekmaw
1 Reveillark
2 Chord of Calling
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Gitaxian Probe
Artifact 4
4 Birthing Pod
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Thoughtseize
1 Voice of Resurgence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Spellskite
Debating a blue land over the second Forest, but the question is if so which one. Watery Grave can be found by all 8 fetches but it's basically just swamp+life payment so I don't want to run it. On the other hand, while I think 3 basic Forests is overkill I've never been unhappy to have a second one so there's a pretty big cost to running it. Maybe I shouldn't even bother trying to play probe without paying life and instead counter that by fetching more basics which probe lets you do slightly easier since your land ratio is higher at 22/56 than 23/60.
The other question I'm having is the cut for Restoration Angel. I want to put it MB but the question is what comes out for it. Right now I'm thinking Redcap should be the cut. I love Redcap but I'm a bit high on removal right now for the archetype so I could probably trim one card without issue. On the other hand Redcap is one of the best cards to use with Restoration Angel so maybe that's not right... anyone have an opinion?
This list is pretty far off from the stock lists but it's full of things I want to try. Namely Sin Collector/Exarch MB, some sideboard plans like Pharika (seems like a very strong way to stabilize against Zoo and such), and the Probe idea. I'm pretty sure atleast 2 of the 3 won't work well but I want to try them out.
I'm doing the forum reorganization and have a question about Junk Pod (no Meliras involved). Are you guys mostly discussing the no-Melira strategies here? Or does it make sense to start a new thread for that strategy? Melira Pod is solidly Proven, but Junk Pod (which may deserve its own thread) qualifies for Established on its own. Let me know what you guys think.
Value Junk Pod would play cards like Lingering Souls, Thrun, Acidic Slime, Sigarda, more Voices, more Restoration Angels, etc and have much less in common with the combo versions of the deck, but would also probably be less competitive and has yet to prove itself.
GWUB 4C Gifts Control
Commander:
GWU Derevi
BGW Ghave
BUG Muldrotha
Tiny Leaders:
BGW Doran
BGU Leovold
Never take out Redcap if you play with Melira. Against Twin, Tron and the mirror infinite life sometimes is not enough, and you might need a way to deal infinite damage as well. But RestoAngel is kinda of an auto include since you have Exarch and Collector main, but you already have one. You want to add another?
Also, having both Canonist and Eidolon against Storm seems like overkill. If there is lots of Storm where you play, I think it's better to play a hoser main than two hosers side. Have you tested it?
Do you mean Angel Pod or combo-less Pod? I agree with @Wizards, Pod with combo (Angel/Melira) are basically the same deck, but without combo can be very different, at least in how the deck plays.
I already said my piece on it but this is a better way to phrase it. I think there's already a thread in just plain deck construction about comboless pod. Angel/Melira/Anything else combo is pretty similar, it's easiest to just keep them lumped together.
Sorry, guess I wasn't clear I had already made those swaps. A Restoration Angel for the second Redcap which was moved to the SB. I love Redcap though so I'm not happy about that. Given my 4 drops which two out of these would you put in the board (or cut entirely) keeping in mind that the decks to beat in order to take an event down are Scapeshift, Storm, and UWR?
2 Murderous Redcap
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Restoration Angel
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
I actually like Canonist+Eidolon because the top tables always have Storm, it's a favorite of the better players so in order to win you have to beat it. It's not common enough to justify MB hate though, especially with Sin Collector/Entomber Exarch in the main (both of which are partially in response to Storm). The reason I like the two hosers though is because it's easier to Chord into Canonist which could be relevant such as in a situation where it's turn 3 and they're on the play with a hand that can go off. But in games 2 and 3 if you have time Eidolon is a superior card since it doesn't die to Bolt. With two cards I'm also twice as likely to naturally draw it and both my 1 drops and my 2 drops can be turned into hate with a Pod.
Anyways I got some testing in with the Probes, on one hand they seemed to help. More than the "56" cards the information was big as it really let me plan out what to Pod and Chord for, in general the life loss wasn't a big deal either but I was more diligent in fetching basics... the information helped in that regard to as I knew ahead of time what mana I needed to have to make my plays. Specifically I really liked having more things to Eternal Witness for, Witness for information+card draw was pretty solid (not that Witness is ever really bad). On the other hand, I was still using more of my life total and had a few games against Burn which is already won or lost on razor thin life margins. I think the Burn match dropped from 50/50 to 30/70 by the change. That or I just drew bad. Eidolon especially is hugely punishing.
I've built a pretty standard Melira pod list, but am still missing some fetches and 1 Noble Hierarch. Right now I only have 2 Verdant Catacombs. So I'm wondering what would be more valuable to this deck: a third Hierarch or a third (and possibly fourth) Catacomb? Already have everything else except the Rainforests.
The fetches are better than the Hierarchs. The mana fixing is very helpful. In order of cards I would first max out on Catacombs, then get Misty Rainforest/Marsh Flats (there's merit to each, especially if you like a basic Plains), and then get Hierarch last. As far as Hierarch goes it's the best dork but Birds of Paradise, Wall of Roots, and even Avacyn's Pilgrim can do a good enough impersonation. It's worth pointing out that no one has even figured out how many Hierarchs the lists want it varies from 2 to 4 these days.
In pure budget terms, we know it's going to be atleast a year before fetches get a reprint but Hierarch is fair game anywhere (probably MM2).
I don't know the specific list you mean but if that's a big part of your meta can they ever beat a single Emrakul/Kozilek out of the board? I've done that against mill strategies from time to time.
GWUB 4C Gifts Control
Commander:
GWU Derevi
BGW Ghave
BUG Muldrotha
Tiny Leaders:
BGW Doran
BGU Leovold
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
If it is to protect from wrath, what matchups are you not finding your persist guys, Reveillark, and Eternal Witness not sufficient in?
If I were you I would go check mtgtop8 for all the hate bears decks and pod decks to get a list of good pod creatures (check sideboard too). You do the union of all those creatures and get at least one of them. Like :
If you already got a pod deck, 75% of the work is done already.
ElCascador gave you sideboard option creatures. That's a start, but the mainboard toolbox creatures you're going to want are:
There are a ton of other creatures, but those are very common. Kitchen Finks might not just be toolbox, but a great utility creature, the rest are 1 or 2-ofs for toolbox reasons. The other part of the deck is the consider the mana dorks. Birds of Paradise and Wall of Roots are pretty easy to get, but Noble Hierarch is very pricy, and I don't expect it to go down in price.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears