Also we play it as a singleton not the full set, 90% of the time we see it we see sanitarium mid and late game when we have mines and card quality is kinda important. I always have to discard lands eot, sanitarium gives me an extra card and that's good . Being played it since it got spoilered and never looked back ahah
So right away I am thinking I need 2 lightning bolts main board, but I don't know what to replace. I'm thinking Mana Leak since that card sucks to draw late, or possibly one Exhaustion and one Gigadrowse. I also realize that the 2 Ratchet Bomb should be 2 Engineered Explosives and the 2 Sun Droplet should be 2 Chalice of the Voids, but I don't have the money for either yet. Also, the reasoning for the fetch land choices are that my only blue fechlands I own are 4 copies of Flooded Strand, and buying 1 Scalding Tarn is already expensive enough that I figured I could get away with the Strands for a while. I also think that doing a 3/3 split of Part and Mastery is correct. The Mircale cost of Mastery is amazing, but it doesn't haven very often. I'd rather make the curve better with four 5 mana turn cards, three 6 mana turn cards, and three 7 mana turn cards.
Also we play it as a singleton not the full set, 90% of the time we see it we see sanitarium mid and late game when we have mines and card quality is kinda important. I always have to discard lands eot, sanitarium gives me an extra card and that's good . Being played it since it got spoilered and never looked back ahah
Most of the time the fact that its indestructible really doesn't matter. By the time we awaken our land their whole board is tapped down, and at that point we might as well be awakening an island. But the real benefit is what happens when they start making sideboard decisions. If the only win conditions I show them are indestructible(Thassa and Darksteel), they always take out removal (not named Path to Exile), while I side in my 3 Thing in the Ice against what is now a removal light opponent. You can think of it as a bait and switch tactic. And any mind games we can play on our opponent are a major benefit for us because most of our non regular opponents will only have a rough idea of how we win.
So yeah primary benefit: not so much
secondary benefit: one of the best cards in my 75
As far as Sanitarium goes, once we hit the mid to late game anyways your complaining about pitching lands? And you feel that sanitarium somehow helps you with this? I have experienced that I almost never have extra mana once I start comboing. In fact mana in this deck is very tight and I often (like 95% of the time) dont have enough for Mikokoro activation, let alone something that doesn't actually net us +1 card
Tanarax, its refreshing to see someone comment on the same issues and concerns I have seen. :]
Mana being tight while we combo is exactly why I feel the Temporal Mastery and Temporal Trespass are important cards, they let us cheat a Time Walk and 'turn the corner' into attacking the rest of the board with a Giga if we need to.
I have 100% pitched cards that mid combo I do not need (or more likely after needing to pass the turn with them exhausted) using Sanitarium to dig 1 more card.
Its the seemingly eternal struggle with this deck, we have a LOT of cards that at various points in our game plan are absolutely dead and need to go, having a way to get some value out of them is to me, worth the slot.
Does anyone have any thoughts on when it's best to start taking turns? Say the opponent is tapped out, should I wait til I have a howling mine out? What if I have two time warps but no mines? Should I take a couple turns in order to draw a few cards and play some lands? Does it depend on the rest of my hand? If I have exhaustion or gigadrowse backup, is it okay to just take one turn to dig for a mine effect?
I know much of this is matchup and draw dependent, but just trying to get an idea of when you all feel it's safe or best to start taking turns.
Does anyone have any thoughts on when it's best to start taking turns? Say the opponent is tapped out, should I wait til I have a howling mine out? What if I have two time warps but no mines? Should I take a couple turns in order to draw a few cards and play some lands? Does it depend on the rest of my hand? If I have exhaustion or gigadrowse backup, is it okay to just take one turn to dig for a mine effect?
I know much of this is matchup and draw dependent, but just trying to get an idea of when you all feel it's safe or best to start taking turns.
i usually start taking turns even if i don't have mines, more lands and cards is still a good advantage and means stronger gigadrowses
There is nothing wrong with some value Turns. Playing to our outs is an important concept and if they are Time Warps you are using Snaps will get you value for them later.
Does anyone have any thoughts on when it's best to start taking turns? Say the opponent is tapped out, should I wait til I have a howling mine out? What if I have two time warps but no mines? Should I take a couple turns in order to draw a few cards and play some lands? Does it depend on the rest of my hand? If I have exhaustion or gigadrowse backup, is it okay to just take one turn to dig for a mine effect?
I know much of this is matchup and draw dependent, but just trying to get an idea of when you all feel it's safe or best to start taking turns.
It's a good question (one for the primer? Can help if needed)
It's worth noting how much of a clock you're on. If your opponent isn't putting you under any pressure, it can be ok to stockpile and sit back with a cryptic/remand/whatever for a turn or two, although of course there are caveats, for example: Is your opponent is threatening a one-turn combo but hasn't executed or found it yet (think ad nauseam) obviously there's some definite value in taking some turns to both find what you need and "stall" your opponent.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Thanks for all the replies! I just got on this deck about a week ago, but after Commandeering a Skred player's Koth of the Hammer and beating down with Blood Mooned Mountains, I am hooked.
Hopefully I'll soon be able to add to the discussion and not just ask questions.
Hey everyone! Anyone playing the Extraplanar Lens version? Or does anyone have an opinion about it?
Long time lurker here chiming in with my two cents.
I played the Extraplanar Lens version of turns for about 6 months and I can tell you with all certainty that Lens is a trap. You might steal some game ones every now and again against decks that don't run much removal main deck but as soon as the sideboards come out you're going to get hit with every piece of artifact removal your opponent has. And you can bet that any serious player is going to have more than a few cards devoted to artifact removal.
Getting your lens destroyed immediately after you play it is pretty destructive to your board state as your losing not only your 3 mana artifact but a land too.
I've since moved on to a pretty stock Mono blue list and have been loving it. I play in a weekly modern event at my local store and have maintained a 3-1 average for the last few months.
Ok. So I will probably get crucified for this but.... I think Serum Visions is bad in turns. Or at least my version of turns. So many times when testing I've cast Serum Visions only to draw a Temporal Mastery or something I didn't want, that I wish I could have just tossed with scry. I will be testing Mystic Speculation over the next couple weeks and let you all know how it goes. I believe being able to bottom 3 cards and then draw multiple cards off of mine the next turn is a lot more valuable thank the 1 extra card you get to draw early game. All alongside being able to filter out non turn cards late game while comboing is very strong in my build that only runs 8 warps.
Cant say I have experience with your version. Chandra makes up for the lack of Mine (5) and Warps (8)? I think Mystic Speculation is neat, however the velocity would suffer I think without Serum. Its the same reason I keep remands in my deck even when I think its one of the weakest cards on curve. I just feel like if we fall behind on card's we are in a bad place.
I see your point, however in my particular build, the ability to accelerate your mana with Simian Spirit Guide and Chandra, Torch of Defiance, in my experience, makes up for the lost velocity from serum. I almost always side it out because it never really helps. I think the ability to scry three and filter cards will end up being a lot more valuable. (Setting up temporal etc.) Being able to filter my next 3 turns from turn 1 to set up plays like, Spirit-Chandra-Mine on turn 3 is so powerful. So I guess my point is our late game outcome is always the same. Thats the part of the deck that works consistently. I have set out to create a build that ensures I can combo as soon as possible. Where I believe Turns struggles is in the early game, so through mana boosting and early tempo with boomerang, remand, etc., I find im able to either then get my threats out by turn 2/3 or be ahead enough in mana to lock them out of the mid game with Exhaustion and Gigadrowse. So ultimately I believe Mystic Speculation serves the deck better than Serum Visions, in this sense.
The extra card the sv gives you can be that one card that lets you get to late game so we really should prefer it over MS. it is a card that i love tho probably as a single copy i see it working Good!
Also we play it as a singleton not the full set, 90% of the time we see it we see sanitarium mid and late game when we have mines and card quality is kinda important. I always have to discard lands eot, sanitarium gives me an extra card and that's good . Being played it since it got spoilered and never looked back ahah
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
2 Cryptic Command
4 Dictate of Kruphix
4 Exhaustion
4 Flooded Strand
4 Gigadrowse
3 Howling Mine
1 Inkmoth Nexus
9 Island
2 Mana Leak
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Mountain
3 Part the Waterveil
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Serum Visions
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Temporal Mastery
4 Time Warp
1 By Force
2 Dispel
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Negate
3 Pyroclasm
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sun Droplet
2 Thing in the Ice
Most of the time the fact that its indestructible really doesn't matter. By the time we awaken our land their whole board is tapped down, and at that point we might as well be awakening an island. But the real benefit is what happens when they start making sideboard decisions. If the only win conditions I show them are indestructible(Thassa and Darksteel), they always take out removal (not named Path to Exile), while I side in my 3 Thing in the Ice against what is now a removal light opponent. You can think of it as a bait and switch tactic. And any mind games we can play on our opponent are a major benefit for us because most of our non regular opponents will only have a rough idea of how we win.
So yeah primary benefit: not so much
secondary benefit: one of the best cards in my 75
As far as Sanitarium goes, once we hit the mid to late game anyways your complaining about pitching lands? And you feel that sanitarium somehow helps you with this? I have experienced that I almost never have extra mana once I start comboing. In fact mana in this deck is very tight and I often (like 95% of the time) dont have enough for Mikokoro activation, let alone something that doesn't actually net us +1 card
Uw Taking Turns
The Bad Moon
Small Mardu Midrange
Big Mardu Midrange
Grixis Waste Not Combo
Bw 8-Rack
Bw Midrange
Mana being tight while we combo is exactly why I feel the Temporal Mastery and Temporal Trespass are important cards, they let us cheat a Time Walk and 'turn the corner' into attacking the rest of the board with a Giga if we need to.
I have 100% pitched cards that mid combo I do not need (or more likely after needing to pass the turn with them exhausted) using Sanitarium to dig 1 more card.
Its the seemingly eternal struggle with this deck, we have a LOT of cards that at various points in our game plan are absolutely dead and need to go, having a way to get some value out of them is to me, worth the slot.
Spirits
I know much of this is matchup and draw dependent, but just trying to get an idea of when you all feel it's safe or best to start taking turns.
i usually start taking turns even if i don't have mines, more lands and cards is still a good advantage and means stronger gigadrowses
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Spirits
It's a good question (one for the primer? Can help if needed)
It's worth noting how much of a clock you're on. If your opponent isn't putting you under any pressure, it can be ok to stockpile and sit back with a cryptic/remand/whatever for a turn or two, although of course there are caveats, for example: Is your opponent is threatening a one-turn combo but hasn't executed or found it yet (think ad nauseam) obviously there's some definite value in taking some turns to both find what you need and "stall" your opponent.
Hopefully I'll soon be able to add to the discussion and not just ask questions.
Long time lurker here chiming in with my two cents.
I played the Extraplanar Lens version of turns for about 6 months and I can tell you with all certainty that Lens is a trap. You might steal some game ones every now and again against decks that don't run much removal main deck but as soon as the sideboards come out you're going to get hit with every piece of artifact removal your opponent has. And you can bet that any serious player is going to have more than a few cards devoted to artifact removal.
Getting your lens destroyed immediately after you play it is pretty destructive to your board state as your losing not only your 3 mana artifact but a land too.
I've since moved on to a pretty stock Mono blue list and have been loving it. I play in a weekly modern event at my local store and have maintained a 3-1 average for the last few months.
Spirits
10x Island
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Gemstone Caverns
Instant (11)
2x Cryptic Command
2x Remand
3x Boomerang
1x Unsubstantiate
3x Gigadrowse
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Sorcery (13)
2x Exhaustion
3x Mystic Speculation
3x Temporal Mastery
3x Time Warp
2x Part the Waterveil
Enchantment (3)
3x Dictate of Kruphix
Artifacts (2)
2x Howling Mine
3x Blood Moon
2x Shattering Spree
1x Boomerang
2x Commandeer
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Thing in the Ice
Please let me know your thoughts and opinions on not only this card in turns all together, but also in my build specifically.
Spirits
Spirits
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
In the core list (mono U) I think the velocity of Serum is too important.
Spirits