Lol yeah i've only done it once but that's pretty much exactly how it went haha
So I've really been struggling to figure out exactly how to go about building jeskai.. it seems good in theory having access to bolt as well as white in the sideboard - I've been trying a lot of different angles
Tonight I ran one mainboard timely reinforcements and it was meh; now tweaking with mainboard path as well as bolt and trying spell snare
It's tough because Taking Turns doesn't have enough high tournament places to determine a "best" version in the meta
It also doesn't help that everyone at my LGS is a total spike and makes playing the deck (especially those games I win) miserable
Would you guys mind critiquing the decklist above ^^
I have edited it to the current version I am running at the moment and would like some feedback hopefully before Worcester next weekend!
I know the solo spell pierce seems strange but it has been working really well lately as I've noticed in play testing that a lot of decks in the format need to tap out for their big payoff.. It's why UR Phoenix has started running it in the sideboard as well.. I find that it allows for game one protection while performing the early turns of the combo. Obviously in the remaining games it gets weaker but can be replaced by stronger sideboard hate
**It may just become a 4th bolt or path to exile by next weekend though... I am not 100% convinced since I haven't practiced against Humans/Spirits yet
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For the UR turns, will Magmatic Insight be good as serum #5~8 or even as a mine replacement? UR turns seems to be more tempo than combo and having more cards earlier seems to be better. Or is it on par with AV and thus not needed for the deck?
Magmatic Insight is not as good as the other cantrip options like Opt or Sleight of Hand. Because red is a splash, it is far more difficult to have red mana in the early turns (when you want to be cantripping) than blue mana. It also doesn't necessarily help you hit land drops when you need them. I know I've kept my fair share of two land hands hoping for a third land drop to Dictate, and Magmatic Insight isn't great in that spot. Magmatic Insight is also nowhere close to a Mine replacement. Magmatic Insight is card neutral, while Howling Mine is card positive by your second turn with it on the battlefield and continues to be card positive as you combo off.
I would add a 23rd land to the deck. Land drops are really important to hit, especially in a deck playing cards costing 5+ mana, and I've found 23 to be the sweet spot. If you add a UW land like Glacial Fortress, this also puts you at 11 white mana sources, which I would say is the bare minimum you should play to consistently cast cards like Stony Silence. Frank Karsten's article recommends 13 white sources to cast a 1W spell like Stony Silence and 16 to cast a 2WW spell like Supreme Verdict (I'm assuming that blue is a freebie there). While 16 is a lot and you can kind of get away with skimping there because you have Serum Visions and Dictates to see more cards by turn 4, I'd still recommend at the very least going to 11 white sources, and even that is kind of low for Supreme Verdict. The easiest candidate here to cut is Spell Pierce, but it's up to you how that card feels in testing.
I don't like the lack of Thing in the Ice in the sideboard. TitI is one of the best ways to slow down an aggro opponent and also close out the game. I'd recommend at least 2 over the Vendilion Clique and Celestial Purge. I'm not really sure what Celestial Purge is meant to hit here, but I feel like there are better options.
Good luck, I hope the double splash works out for you!
Thank you Timewalkinonsunshine! I was running 23 lands for a while and it felt like it was almost too many but I could see running another glacial fortress... One of my problems in the buddy lands has been that by reducing the number of islands I find a lot more hands only have sulfur falls/glacial fortress
I Think I may cut spell pierce as you said though! Does seem kind of variable
Also with TiTi, the reason I went with geist and vendilion over him was that I also run terminus in the sideboard as a sweeper for aggressive decks and the two don't work out well with one another.. I've also found that it takes quite a while to flip him as opposed to phoenix decks that can do it almost always in one turn.
I may have to try TiTi again though... Would you recommend running both Terminus and Thing?
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I think that yes the both can and should be played together! While I was playing UW I ran 3 TITI and 4 Terminus (in the 75). Against aggressive decks you need to slow them down so if Thing absorbs any damage while you work towards terminus than it pulled its weight.
Since its low cost you can often rebuild after terminus with another thing and start going off now that you're stabilized.
zcowan: How has the 4 Snapcasters been going for you? I feel like four might be too much. I dont know how to feel about the 3 bolt and 2 path. That seems like its alot of removal and I am unsure how much would be needed.
Also, I am having issues trying to decide what splash I want to play for Turns. I'm on the fence between UB and UR versions. Attached are the current versions I'm thinking of playing.
I currently have two issues with turns:
1.UB is more control focused while UR is more tempo. Which strategy would be better against the meta?
2.Their sideboards are radically different. UB has great graveyard and hand disruption. UR has better artifact and creature removal. IDK which would be better, or if there are sideboard cards that could go in either version.
This enables Ancestral Vision (which I’ve always felt is a reasonable card in Turns generally) at Instant speed and immediate resolution, and so far as using the card itself to keep the board clear or go upstairs, you could do worse. Intriguing!
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I think that yes the both can and should be played together! While I was playing UW I ran 3 TITI and 4 Terminus (in the 75). Against aggressive decks you need to slow them down so if Thing absorbs any damage while you work towards terminus than it pulled its weight.
Since its low cost you can often rebuild after terminus with another thing and start going off now that you're stabilized.
I'm certainly for both.
Yeah I think you're right! Last night I got in another practice session with a friend and I think I like: 2 Titi, 1 Supreme Verdict, 2 Terminus, 1 Geist.. I feel like it provides more options in the creature slot.. Geist is incredibly strong against control matchups and ones that try to get away with limited removal after side boarding...
zcowan: How has the 4 Snapcasters been going for you? I feel like four might be too much. I dont know how to feel about the 3 bolt and 2 path. That seems like its alot of removal and I am unsure how much would be needed.
Also, I am having issues trying to decide what splash I want to play for Turns. I'm on the fence between UB and UR versions. Attached are the current versions I'm thinking of playing.
I currently have two issues with turns:
1.UB is more control focused while UR is more tempo. Which strategy would be better against the meta?
2.Their sideboards are radically different. UB has great graveyard and hand disruption. UR has better artifact and creature removal. IDK which would be better, or if there are sideboard cards that could go in either version.
Okay so.. with snapcaaster mage.. I think if you are trying to run a UR variant of some sort the correct number to play is 4x. Daniel Wong has been doing this for a while and swore by it and I definitely agree. It makes the deck a lot faster and more efficient as you are able to bolt-snap-bolt after casting a few extra turn effects.
Part of the reason I switched to Jeskai was because bolt on it's own wasn't doing enough to stop decks like spirits/humans so I split between bolt and path.. I have sense changed the list to run 4 bolt and 2 path and it feels perfect. In my local meta there are a lot of people running Bant spirits and if they have a wanderer in play you can't safely combo off - so taking care of their board is priority
And in regards to UB vs. UR.. It's extremely difficult to say.. Another reason for switching to jeskai was because Anger to the Gods and pyroclasm aren't as strong as they used to be.. UB definitely has the stronger sideboard in that you can play: Leyline of the Void, Thoughtseize and other hand disruption, damnation, etc.. and fatal push takes the place of bolt in the mainboard
This enables Ancestral Vision (which I’ve always felt is a reasonable card in Turns generally) at Instant speed and immediate resolution, and so far as using the card itself to keep the board clear or go upstairs, you could do worse. Intriguing!
I also just saw the spoiler of this card.. I didn't even think about the ancestral visions idea but I was thinking about instant speed exhaustion on their end step which sounds awesome haha. I don't think the card would actually play as well as we think though haha
I am interested by a simic style though.. some of the leaked cards definitely seem to fit nicely into a taking turns shell
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Got a lot of deck testing in over the past three days and I think I have what may be the most polished version of Jeskai Turns now.. feeling really confident after trying it against a lot of the top tier stuff!
Of note, I took away the single spell snare and added the 23rd land as mentioned. I now am also running a single Sacred Foundry which puts me to 12 red sources and 11 white sources making it a lot easier to cast everything in the sideboard
Speaking of which.. I fixed the sideboard! lol I went back and watched Daniel Wong's youtube videos for inspiration.
I really like the list at the moment. After reviewing Daniel's videos I noticed that after side boarding his deck functions more of a creature based control similar to blood moon as opposed to a Taking Turns combo style.. I have adapted that to add white as I noticed that Geist can easily take over a game and post sideboard they have no sweeper removal effects.
If I can pick it up in time, I almost want to run Keranos, God of Storms in place of Vendilion Clique but if I can't get one in time I will be fine with that place going to Vendilion. I just think that Keranos is a powerhouse able to shoot the enemy's creatures and life total and is indestructible so their enchantment removal in the form of Nature's Claim or Knight of Autumn does nothing!
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If anyone is interested I also have a full side boarding guide available that I have created for the tournament, I could post that here if anyone wants to try the decklist
Thank you! Yeah I've put a lot of runs in with the deck to get it right! I've been on UW for so long and then a short period of time with UR so it only felt right to combine them haha
For Phoenix decks I do:
IN: 2 Terminus, 2 Thing in the Ice, 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Negate
OUT: 1 Howling Mine, 2 Dictate, 1 Jace, 1 Bolt, 1 Time Warp, 1 Temporal Mastery
I actually just bought that deck recently so I got to test against it. It definitely feels like a favorable matchup!
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Most games revolves around gigadrowsing on opponent end step and going off afterwards from my experiences
So I've really been struggling to figure out exactly how to go about building jeskai.. it seems good in theory having access to bolt as well as white in the sideboard - I've been trying a lot of different angles
Tonight I ran one mainboard timely reinforcements and it was meh; now tweaking with mainboard path as well as bolt and trying spell snare
It's tough because Taking Turns doesn't have enough high tournament places to determine a "best" version in the meta
It also doesn't help that everyone at my LGS is a total spike and makes playing the deck (especially those games I win) miserable
Currently I am sitting at:
4x Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (2)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mine Effects (5)
4x Dictate of Kruphix
1x Howling Mine
Spells (27)
4x Serum Visions
3x Lightning Bolt
2x Path to Exile
1x Spell Pierce
1x Commandeer
2x Cryptic Command
3x Exhaustion
3x Gigadrowse
4x Time Warp
3x Temporal Mastery
1x Part the Waterveil
5x Island
3x Flooded Strand
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Polluted Delta
1x Mystic Gate
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Prairie Stream
2x Steam Vents
1x Temple of Epiphany
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Gemstone Caverns
3 Terminus
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Celestial Purge
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Stony Silence
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
I have edited it to the current version I am running at the moment and would like some feedback hopefully before Worcester next weekend!
I know the solo spell pierce seems strange but it has been working really well lately as I've noticed in play testing that a lot of decks in the format need to tap out for their big payoff.. It's why UR Phoenix has started running it in the sideboard as well.. I find that it allows for game one protection while performing the early turns of the combo. Obviously in the remaining games it gets weaker but can be replaced by stronger sideboard hate
**It may just become a 4th bolt or path to exile by next weekend though... I am not 100% convinced since I haven't practiced against Humans/Spirits yet
I would add a 23rd land to the deck. Land drops are really important to hit, especially in a deck playing cards costing 5+ mana, and I've found 23 to be the sweet spot. If you add a UW land like Glacial Fortress, this also puts you at 11 white mana sources, which I would say is the bare minimum you should play to consistently cast cards like Stony Silence. Frank Karsten's article recommends 13 white sources to cast a 1W spell like Stony Silence and 16 to cast a 2WW spell like Supreme Verdict (I'm assuming that blue is a freebie there). While 16 is a lot and you can kind of get away with skimping there because you have Serum Visions and Dictates to see more cards by turn 4, I'd still recommend at the very least going to 11 white sources, and even that is kind of low for Supreme Verdict. The easiest candidate here to cut is Spell Pierce, but it's up to you how that card feels in testing.
I don't like the lack of Thing in the Ice in the sideboard. TitI is one of the best ways to slow down an aggro opponent and also close out the game. I'd recommend at least 2 over the Vendilion Clique and Celestial Purge. I'm not really sure what Celestial Purge is meant to hit here, but I feel like there are better options.
Good luck, I hope the double splash works out for you!
I Think I may cut spell pierce as you said though! Does seem kind of variable
Also with TiTi, the reason I went with geist and vendilion over him was that I also run terminus in the sideboard as a sweeper for aggressive decks and the two don't work out well with one another.. I've also found that it takes quite a while to flip him as opposed to phoenix decks that can do it almost always in one turn.
I may have to try TiTi again though... Would you recommend running both Terminus and Thing?
Since its low cost you can often rebuild after terminus with another thing and start going off now that you're stabilized.
I'm certainly for both.
Also, I am having issues trying to decide what splash I want to play for Turns. I'm on the fence between UB and UR versions. Attached are the current versions I'm thinking of playing.
UB: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/27-12-18-ub-taking-turns/?cb=1546568117
UR: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/28-12-18-ur-turns/?cb=1546568250
I currently have two issues with turns:
1.UB is more control focused while UR is more tempo. Which strategy would be better against the meta?
2.Their sideboards are radically different. UB has great graveyard and hand disruption. UR has better artifact and creature removal. IDK which would be better, or if there are sideboard cards that could go in either version.
https://scryfall.com/card/rna/99/electrodominance
This enables Ancestral Vision (which I’ve always felt is a reasonable card in Turns generally) at Instant speed and immediate resolution, and so far as using the card itself to keep the board clear or go upstairs, you could do worse. Intriguing!
YouTube Channel, with deck techs, gameplay, analysis, spoiler reviews, and more!
Yeah I think you're right! Last night I got in another practice session with a friend and I think I like: 2 Titi, 1 Supreme Verdict, 2 Terminus, 1 Geist.. I feel like it provides more options in the creature slot.. Geist is incredibly strong against control matchups and ones that try to get away with limited removal after side boarding...
Okay so.. with snapcaaster mage.. I think if you are trying to run a UR variant of some sort the correct number to play is 4x. Daniel Wong has been doing this for a while and swore by it and I definitely agree. It makes the deck a lot faster and more efficient as you are able to bolt-snap-bolt after casting a few extra turn effects.
Part of the reason I switched to Jeskai was because bolt on it's own wasn't doing enough to stop decks like spirits/humans so I split between bolt and path.. I have sense changed the list to run 4 bolt and 2 path and it feels perfect. In my local meta there are a lot of people running Bant spirits and if they have a wanderer in play you can't safely combo off - so taking care of their board is priority
And in regards to UB vs. UR.. It's extremely difficult to say.. Another reason for switching to jeskai was because Anger to the Gods and pyroclasm aren't as strong as they used to be.. UB definitely has the stronger sideboard in that you can play: Leyline of the Void, Thoughtseize and other hand disruption, damnation, etc.. and fatal push takes the place of bolt in the mainboard
I also just saw the spoiler of this card.. I didn't even think about the ancestral visions idea but I was thinking about instant speed exhaustion on their end step which sounds awesome haha. I don't think the card would actually play as well as we think though haha
I am interested by a simic style though.. some of the leaked cards definitely seem to fit nicely into a taking turns shell
Spirits
Of note, I took away the single spell snare and added the 23rd land as mentioned. I now am also running a single Sacred Foundry which puts me to 12 red sources and 11 white sources making it a lot easier to cast everything in the sideboard
Speaking of which.. I fixed the sideboard! lol I went back and watched Daniel Wong's youtube videos for inspiration.
4x Snapcaster Mage
Enchantments (4)
4x Dictate of Kruphix
Artifacts (1)
1x Howling Mine
Planeswalkers (2)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Spells (25)
4x Time Warp
3x Temporal mastery
1x Part the Waterveil
2x Cryptic Command
1x Commandeer
3x Lightning Bolt
2x Path to Exile
3x Exhaustion
3x Gigadrowse
4x Opt
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Gemstone Caverns
5x Island
3x Flooded Strand
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Polluted Delta
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Glacial Fortress
1x Temple of Enlightenment
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Terminus
1x Anger of the Gods
3x Thing in the Ice
1x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Negate
1x Disdainful Stroke
1x Stony Silence
I really like the list at the moment. After reviewing Daniel's videos I noticed that after side boarding his deck functions more of a creature based control similar to blood moon as opposed to a Taking Turns combo style.. I have adapted that to add white as I noticed that Geist can easily take over a game and post sideboard they have no sweeper removal effects.
If I can pick it up in time, I almost want to run Keranos, God of Storms in place of Vendilion Clique but if I can't get one in time I will be fine with that place going to Vendilion. I just think that Keranos is a powerhouse able to shoot the enemy's creatures and life total and is indestructible so their enchantment removal in the form of Nature's Claim or Knight of Autumn does nothing!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone is interested I also have a full side boarding guide available that I have created for the tournament, I could post that here if anyone wants to try the decklist
For Phoenix decks I do:
IN: 2 Terminus, 2 Thing in the Ice, 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Negate
OUT: 1 Howling Mine, 2 Dictate, 1 Jace, 1 Bolt, 1 Time Warp, 1 Temporal Mastery
I actually just bought that deck recently so I got to test against it. It definitely feels like a favorable matchup!
Found this thread while looking for a think tank for nexus of fate in modern. This list 5-0'd last Friday: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1555145#paper
Thoughts?
transfer will happen over the next couple of days, if I had to guess.
Thank you for updating this thread and keeping the discussion following during your turn as thread starter
Yeah thats kind of where I'm at. I'm just looking for a home for Growth Spiral really, and a deck I can jam Remand into.
Spirits
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge