Wow that was incredibly insightful.. thank you! It definitely helps having you on this forum now!
So with experience to burn then, how often would you say you run into situations where you Chalice on 1 and they immediately destroy it with destructive revelry? Is it worth the sideboard in?
If it sticks it shuts off like 75% of their deck..
The more I think about it, the more I am thinking of running 2x tho
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Wow that was incredibly insightful.. thank you! It definitely helps having you on this forum now!
So with experience to burn then, how often would you say you run into situations where you Chalice on 1 and they immediately destroy it with destructive revelry? Is it worth the sideboard in?
If it sticks it shuts off like 75% of their deck..
The more I think about it, the more I am thinking of running 2x tho
I've ran into that a few times before, including on camera against Jon Stern at GP Toronto earlier this year. It's still often worth slamming on turn 2 to make them have the Revelry, especially when you're on the play and they've only cast one spell, since when they don't have it, the card can be game-winningly powerful. There are also a few niche things you can do to avoid having Revelry make much of an impact, but they don't come up that often:
Use Commandeer to redirect Revelry to their Eidolon of the Great Revel. This comes up very rarely, but when it does it's huge.
Wait to put Chalice on 2 instead of 1. This is probably what I should have done against Jon Stern (just cast Thing in the Ice that turn instead, then the following turn cast Chalice X=2). Note that Chalice on 2 will counter Chalice X=1, because the converted mana cost of XX when X=1 is 2.
Play a Chalice on 1 first, then Chalice on 2 asap. This is difficult to do because getting to 6 mana to do that in one turn against Burn is tough, and this also doesn't work if they have an untapped green source and Revelry in hand. Still, if you can assemble turn 2 Chalice X=1, then turn 4 Chalice X=2, it's very very difficult for the burn player to come back.
Wow that was incredibly insightful.. thank you! It definitely helps having you on this forum now!
So with experience to burn then, how often would you say you run into situations where you Chalice on 1 and they immediately destroy it with destructive revelry? Is it worth the sideboard in?
If it sticks it shuts off like 75% of their deck..
The more I think about it, the more I am thinking of running 2x tho
It wins you games, it is as easy as that. Don't forget revelry has a lot of targets against turns, so even if they use it against the chalice, maybe you can stick your mine and combo off.
Edit: it should also be great against KCI on 0 and or 1. Shuts of a lot of cantrips and shuts of nature's claim.
I actually haven't played against KCI much, and was wondering about Chalice in the matchup. Matt Nass's GP Vegas list has maindeck 4 0-drops (Mox Opal only), 17 1-drops, and 10 2-drops. It looks to me like Chalice X=1 should be pretty good, but I'm unfamiliar with how easily the deck would be able to combo by looping its 2+ mana spells.
So I just watched some matchups of KCI on youtube and from the looks of it, if you could Chalice on 1 it would slow them to a crawl long enough to combo or at least get a chalice on 2 which would then lock the game pretty much..
My friend owns and plays the deck and it's already a favorable matchup before side boarding anyhow since all of their cards are cast at sorcery speed meaning our remand/gigadrowse are super strong
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So I just watched some matchups of KCI on youtube and from the looks of it, if you could Chalice on 1 it would slow them to a crawl long enough to combo or at least get a chalice on 2 which would then lock the game pretty much..
My friend owns and plays the deck and it's already a favorable matchup before side boarding anyhow since all of their cards are cast at sorcery speed meaning our remand/gigadrowse are super strong
There is no KCI in my local meta, but I run into it online sometimes. They (like burn and elves) really benefit from drawing the extra cards we give them, more so than many decks.
I hate to be the broken record whose answers are all just the same white cards over and over, but KCI should have a pretty rough time playing through Stony Silence, Leyline of Sanctity and Rest In Peace.
If your splashing red then I'd lean on Shatterstorm but By Force might also be viable.
I dont think Hurkyl's Recallis as good beccause it will let them draw all those extra cards as they replay their hand next turn.
Yeah honestly I think Chalice & Stony Silence are the way to go.. plus swan song is an additional option
Honestly im hoping this weekend goes like my last modern classic I went to where I played five rounds against Tron haha... super easy matchup lol
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So I just watched some matchups of KCI on youtube and from the looks of it, if you could Chalice on 1 it would slow them to a crawl long enough to combo or at least get a chalice on 2 which would then lock the game pretty much..
My friend owns and plays the deck and it's already a favorable matchup before side boarding anyhow since all of their cards are cast at sorcery speed meaning our remand/gigadrowse are super strong
So I just watched some matchups of KCI on youtube and from the looks of it, if you could Chalice on 1 it would slow them to a crawl long enough to combo or at least get a chalice on 2 which would then lock the game pretty much..
My friend owns and plays the deck and it's already a favorable matchup before side boarding anyhow since all of their cards are cast at sorcery speed meaning our remand/gigadrowse are super strong
There is no KCI in my local meta, but I run into it online sometimes. They (like burn and elves) really benefit from drawing the extra cards we give them, more so than many decks.
I hate to be the broken record whose answers are all just the same white cards over and over, but KCI should have a pretty rough time playing through Stony Silence, Leyline of Sanctity and Rest In Peace.
If your splashing red then I'd lean on Shatterstorm but By Force might also be viable.
I dont think Hurkyl's Recallis as good beccause it will let them draw all those extra cards as they replay their hand next turn.
Yeah honestly I think Chalice & Stony Silence are the way to go.. plus swan song is an additional option
Honestly im hoping this weekend goes like my last modern classic I went to where I played five rounds against Tron haha... super easy matchup lol
I wouldn't say turn 1 per se, but definitely improves the matchup haha
I think black is a really good splash
@Timewalkinonsunshine Are you still doing the red splash? Are you still liking it?
Yeah, still running the same 75 from GP Las Vegas on Magic Online and I've been liking it a lot so far. I just wish Wizards would print the enemy Battle for Zendikar lands to make the manabase better!
Right? Although I prefer the Check lands anyhow since they get around Choke and other "oh I see you have islands" shenanigans haha
Not that you should really ever play around Choke unless you have friends who really hate losing against Taking Turns like mine lol
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So I had another good night playing Modern with Taking Turns Thursday at my LGS. I won my first game 2-0 versus U/W control, then tied my second game 1-1 versus a W/B hate bears eldrazi deck. My third game was a tie (1-1) versus U/R control with no blood moon, but we rolled to break the tie after the game as it meant one of us could move to top 8 (I won the tie breaker). My final game was versus a Thought Scour, Tasigur, the Golden Fang graveyard type deck. I ended up winning 2-0.
Hey guys! Just got home from the Starcity Worcester event. I ended up going 5-3-drop and am beyond exhausted lol.. it's amazing how tiring those days are
Anyhow.. I'll be posting a match review on here probably tomorrow morning! Lots of good information!!
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Just for the KCI topic: always get your first chalice on 0 against them. They often run Explosives, and Mox Opal is what allows them to go off stupidly efficiently.
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Modern Death and Taxes (not Eldrazi&Taxes)
Modern Storm
Modern Taking Turns
EDH Jhoira of the Ghitu
Round 1: Mardu Pyromancer, 1-2 (LOSS)
What I learned: Timely reinforcements is really good against them but I think moving forward I will also side in 1-2 Terminus because there are games when they have multiple young pyromancers and the only way to win is by wiping all the tokens. I also noticed that they do end up fizzling at a point (around like turn 4-5) and they have to rebuild by spending entire turns casting faithless lootings.
Round 2: Infect, 2-0 (WIN)
What I learned: This matchup was when I realized how powerful Chalice of the Void is. I was able to get it on 1 early and although he had a Glistener Elf in play, he was unable to cast anything for over seven turns and had to discard a Rancor repetitively. With only taking 1 point of infect each turn I was able to safely combo off without any worries.
Sidenote: Kind of a dumb mistake was that I held onto a path for like three turns not realizing it was a dead card with the chalice in play lol (Still learning the ways of the chalice haha)
Round 3: Jund, 2-0 (WIN)
What I learned: This matchup actually came down to allowing him to draw off of Dark Confidant. I kept his lands tapped with gigadrowse and exhaustion and just allowed him to draw Liliana's and whatnot. After he had lost about 12 life he had to fatal push it in order to not die but I was holding onto snap casters to finish things up anyhow.
Round 4: Death and Taxes, 2-0 (WIN)
What I learned: This was hands down my best round of magic that I have played with the deck. Game 1 I was able to make a very large island and swing for lethal early so there wasn't anything too impressive in that. However, game two I had multiple howling mine effects in play and was drawing 4 cards a turn. I didn't have a win condition yet and only had about 25 cards left in my library. I was able to play Jace and get him to his ultimate without milling myself by gigadrowsing the howling mines several turns and then utilizing them on others to dig deeper for extra turn spells. Then after ult-ing Jace I was able to flash in the remaining 2 dictate on his upkeep to make him draw his library.
Round 5: Affinity, 2-1 (WIN)
What I learned: Game one he drew the nuts and was able to just win with a huge Vault Skirge. On game two I had the play and was able to stick a Chalice on 1 and Terminus his board. From like 4 life I was able to stabilize and it turns out he had the Galvanic Blast in hand but couldn't cast it! (starting to love Chalice a bit). On game 3, he took the play dumped his entire hand over the course of two turns and then on my second turn I drew into Terminus and got rid of everything.
Sidenote: I did try to land a Chalice on 0 but I wasn't impressed. I think moving forward I would only cast them on 1 or 2 as Orithopters and Mox Opals are irrelevant if you can't cast anything of higher mana cost
Round 6: Mono Red Prison, 1-2 (LOSS)
What I learned: Surprisingly Blood Moon actually does hurt if played in the early turns. It is definitely a downside of splashing a second color, other than red. Luckily on game 1 he thought I was on UW control at first so he kind of played around that by putting Chalice on 1 and whatnot, so I was able to combo off. But games 2 and 3 he was able to land several planes walkers making my exhaustion turns still very good for him.
Sidenote: I think this is just a tough matchup in general because there isn't a lot that you can sideboard to properly combat the Goblins and the planeswalkers and disruption. It's a lot to deal with without breaking the combo.
Round 7: Vizier Company, 2-0 (WIN)
What I learned: Terminus is a card. And they don't expect it apparently? Both games he was able to have either Devoted Druid or Vizier in play and then pass and I would wipe the board. He also didn't really have anything relevant after side boarding. He played a Kambal I think but it went to the bottom of the library like the rest of them haha
Round 8: Jeskai Control, 1-2 (LOSS)
What I learned: This was a very skill intensive matchup. I don't think I really knew what to fight over with counter magic and I was so tired from the long day of magic that I missed the opportunity to remand their Teferi on game 3 right before I was about to combo and it allowed them to draw into Logic Knot (I swear they are 80% luck lol). I also boarded in Chalice but realized afterwards that it was kind of useless since I am not too worried about paths or bolts.
So some overall thoughts from the day:
I definitely want to make room for a third Chalice in the sideboard (probably cutting disenchant as there were very few times I needed something removed off the board. This kind of combo deck can play around graveyard removal if you take it carefully enough.
I may try to fit in a few Spreading Seas into the mainboard to try. I know Seba does that and likes them a lot. I think color denial is really strong now and would allow for good tempo against Mardu.
They need to do something about KCI. We had three rounds that went to turns because of the deck and they clogged up an additional 20-30 minutes each time because their rounds take so long. Just not a fun thing for the modern format, and I am thankful I didn't play against the deck yesterday
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I think it's a cool build! A couple of suggestions though:
Have you tried Terminus in the sideboard at all? I love it. All of these super aggro decks right now can survive bounce spells and creature removal but you really see them struggle against all of their creatures being tucked to the bottom. I think about 80% of the games in which I was able to fire off a Terminus I won.
I don't know about Elspeth either.. I think that she is more relevant in a control deck's sideboard then she is in a combo deck. I don't think you have the same amount of tempo game to hit turn 6 and drop her. That being said, she is my favorite planeswalker so I totally get it haha
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So I had another good night playing Modern with Taking Turns Thursday at my LGS. I won my first game 2-0 versus U/W control, then tied my second game 1-1 versus a W/B hate bears eldrazi deck. My third game was a tie (1-1) versus U/R control with no blood moon, but we rolled to break the tie after the game as it meant one of us could move to top 8 (I won the tie breaker). My final game was versus a Thought Scour, Tasigur, the Golden Fang graveyard type deck. I ended up winning 2-0.
we rolled to break the tie after the game as it meant one of us could move to top 8
Don't do that again. It's explicitly against the tournament rules, and the infraction procedure guide has this to say about it:
4.3. Unsporting Conduct — Improperly Determining a Winner
Disqualification
Definition
A player uses or offers to use a method that is not part of the current game (including actions not
legal in the current game) to determine the outcome of a game or match.
A player who receives an offer and does not immediately contact a tournament official is
considered complicit in the offer and will receive the same penalty.
Examples
A. As time is called, two players about to draw roll a die to determine the winner.
B. A player offers to flip a coin to determine the winner of a match.
C. Two players arm wrestle to determine the winner of the match.
D. Two players play rock-paper-scissors to decide if they should play the match or draw.
E. Two players compare the converted mana costs of the top cards of their libraries to
determine the winner of a game at the end of extra turns.
F. Two players reveal cards from the top of their libraries to see “who would win” after
extra turns.
Philosophy
Using an outside-the-game method to determine a winner compromises the integrity of the
tournament.
Matches that result in a draw due to time are expected to be reported as such and are not
excluded from this penalty if the players use an illegal method to determine the outcome.
Just for the KCI topic: always get your first chalice on 0 against them. They often run Explosives, and Mox Opal is what allows them to go off stupidly efficiently.
Hmm... the more I think about it, the less effective Chalice seems against KCI. It's a speed bump for sure, but not a lock. Engineered Explosives can effectively always kill all of our Chalices because it's fairly simple to cast Engineered Explosives X=whatever using only colorless mana, and it will enter with zero counters. My instinct is that Chalice X=1 is probably the most effective number to slow them down, given how many one drops there are, but Chalice doesn't seem like a card you can count on to achieve a lock in this matchup. Chalice X=0 only hits Opal, which doesn't sound good enough to me.
Alright so a report of yesterday:
...
So some overall thoughts from the day:
I definitely want to make room for a third Chalice in the sideboard (probably cutting disenchant as there were very few times I needed something removed off the board. This kind of combo deck can play around graveyard removal if you take it carefully enough.
I may try to fit in a few Spreading Seas into the mainboard to try. I know Seba does that and likes them a lot. I think color denial is really strong now and would allow for good tempo against Mardu.
They need to do something about KCI. We had three rounds that went to turns because of the deck and they clogged up an additional 20-30 minutes each time because their rounds take so long. Just not a fun thing for the modern format, and I am thankful I didn't play against the deck yesterday
Thanks for the report and detailed writeup! Glad to hear that Chalice was carrying its weight, even if it's not good against everything.
Maindeck :
2 echoing truth and 2 path to exil against aggro deck like Humans, Hollow one, death's shadow, affinity, burn.
1 monastery mentor for kill differently and faster.
1 nexus of fate : an other good extra turn for us, we can use it multiple times in one game.
1 day's undoying : for re-build our game after casting an extra turn.
What do you think about this list for the next GP modern in august ?
It's been a while since I've seen an As Foretold build! I agree with zcowan that Terminus over Elspeth might be a good idea. Sounds unintuitive because high CMC miracle cards play poorly with As Foretold itself, but it turns out they're great with Jace and sometimes you just get lucky. Also, regarding your manabase, you have 8 "easy" white sources (2 Hallowed Fountain, 1 Prairie Stream, 4 Flooded Strand, 1 Plains) and 5 "slow" white sources (3 Tolaria West, 2 Field of Ruin) for 13 white sources total. That number is kind of deceiving though because in an ideal world, you're using your Tolaria West to transmute for Ancestral, and using Field of Ruin to attack the opponent's relevant lands rather than try to fix your own mana. If you feel like you're having trouble casting your white spells, replacing one or both Field of Ruin with more "easy" white sources (eg Glacial Fortress) would probably help. Frank Karsten's article on how many colored mana sources you need to consistently cast your spells is a good read for background information. Good luck in the GP!
I can totally see Thing in the Ice playing nicely (although I will admit I was hoping for your feedback on Monastery Mentor because I love that card and really want to run it haha)
If you want to run Thing in the Ice more efficiently though I would recommend you run more cantrips (1-2 opts) as well as keep the path and find cuts somewhere else.. I ran him mainboard for a while and found that the best way to get the most value out of him was by being able to cantrip multiple turns so that he was almost guaranteed to flip on turn 5 when we start to combo.. I could see cutting Day's Undoing. I understand it's purpose in the As Foretold build however I ran that card for a very long time before realizing that there are very few times you will need to reset your deck.
Hope this helps!
EDIT: Also,
What are your opinions regarding switching Remand for Spreading Seas?
Currently I am running 3x Remand mainboard.. I like the card in some matchups but I feel like it doesn't have the same consistency as cutting someone off of their colors in addition to using gigadrowse to deny them the rest of their mana..
EDIT: Also,
What are your opinions regarding switching Remand for Spreading Seas?
Currently I am running 3x Remand mainboard.. I like the card in some matchups but I feel like it doesn't have the same consistency as cutting someone off of their colors in addition to using gigadrowse to deny them the rest of their mana..
In mono blue builds I've been running 2x Remand with 2x Spreading Seas. Feel like it gives you the best of both since Spreading Seas at worst cycles and at best can shut down some decks. Having access to Remand also helps provide some ways to stall/tempo certain decks till you have time to combo. Without Remand I feel like just Cryptic doesn't give enough main deck hate to spell based decks.
I can totally see Thing in the Ice playing nicely (although I will admit I was hoping for your feedback on Monastery Mentor because I love that card and really want to run it haha)
If you want to run Thing in the Ice more efficiently though I would recommend you run more cantrips (1-2 opts) as well as keep the path and find cuts somewhere else.. I ran him mainboard for a while and found that the best way to get the most value out of him was by being able to cantrip multiple turns so that he was almost guaranteed to flip on turn 5 when we start to combo.. I could see cutting Day's Undoing. I understand it's purpose in the As Foretold build however I ran that card for a very long time before realizing that there are very few times you will need to reset your deck.
Hope this helps!
EDIT: Also,
What are your opinions regarding switching Remand for Spreading Seas?
Currently I am running 3x Remand mainboard.. I like the card in some matchups but I feel like it doesn't have the same consistency as cutting someone off of their colors in addition to using gigadrowse to deny them the rest of their mana..
I run Thing in the Ice with no cantrips and feel it is plenty powerful just flipping at its own pace. No tricks, no bending over backwards to force it to flip early. I tested up to 7 cantrips at once and have cut down to nothing to fit in more "action" and "early interaction". Cutting all the cantrips lets me go up in Engines (small bonus) and more importantly lets me run 4 Gigadrowse, 4 Remand, 4 Exhaustion, 4 Cryptic Commands, all of which buy me time while simultaneously helping Thing to flip at its own natural pace as we play out our hand.
I run Days Undoing. Not so much because it reshuffles (although running the singleton has won me a disproportionate amount of hands against Lantern Control). The real benefit of the card is that it says "Draw 7 Cards", everything else is secondary. several times I have played out all my stall cards with no engines in play and have had to just cast it and pray I get something good in my new hand of 7. Usually when I am forced to play it this way, I end up with a Gigadrowse or Remand that I can use to help stop the new hand of 7 I just gave them, It is definitely a gamble but its does seem to get me there waaaay more than lose me the game. Ideally it gets cast on turn 8, with a Time Warp. When this happens its the nail in the coffin that draws me into win cons, more lands, more turns, ect... It has proven so effective that I have even pondered going up to 3 or 4 of them and adding 3 Quicken to the deck but have never tested it.
I run 4 remand, and with Tron showing up more and more often(there are now regularly 3-4 tron decks at my local FNMs and they aren't being run by newbie chumps) I am convinced that for this coming Friday I should swap my 4 Remand for 4 Spreading Seas. I may even make space for some number of Seas Claim I could bring in from the side. Many moons ago I had excellent success running 8-Seas as a disruption package. Having your opponent not able to cast spells because all his lands are islands works O.K. against some decks, was useless against Fish(basically produced auto-losses for game 1), but silver bullet territory against many problem decks (Tron, Burn, Junk, Jund). After a couple of months I gave up on 8 seas and shifted to Spreading Seas main, and Seas Claim in the side. When the meta shifted away from Tron, and away form traditional Jund, and into Deaths Shadow decks I gave up the 8-Seas build, but now that Tron is dominant again...
Hi, i'm playing turn form january 2018 current UR with 3bolt and 1pyroclasm MB. Anyone try:
a)Quicksilver Fountain - it should be good vs Tron, Junk, Jund, Valakut etc.
b)Storage Matrix - good vs deck going wide, but need mana Mardu, Tribal etc.
c) Torpor Orb- stop Humans, Dredge, Elves, snapcaster deck etc.
?
A) wow, that looks like it may really help us if we can land it early. Thank you for bringing it up, now that I know it exists... I will likely test it out online one day.
B) I have already discussed this card with several of my local players, and it looks like it might eventually find a home in our 75. It wont really affect us until the very late game when we go to swing in for lethal, and by then we should easily be able to bounce our own Matrix. I have never gotten around to testing it but its probably worth a couple hours of someones time.
C) Back when modern was "new" (5-7 years ago) and Birthing Pod was a thing (20-35% of the meta), Torpor Orb was a must have. I'm not sure if enough of the current meta relies on ETB triggers to justify its use. But it will always be an available option, and should be brought up periodically to keep in mind as an option.
Hey everyone! I know this forum doesn't get updated too much with new information and everyone is kind of sitting on their lists right now..
But I just wanted to add that I have officially found a very comfortable 75 for UW after tweaking post the Modern Classic
And I have also went -1 Dictate of Kruphix and +1 Search for Azcanta which feels really good.. I had tried it in the past but went around playing it wrong.. I think it offers far more utility staying as an enchantment able to produce miracles and filter away poor draws. Over the past week and a half I have played a lot of games where I have went: Turn 2 Search into Turn 3 Dictate which made the combo a lot smoother.
Just figured I'd offer some more dialogue to what has become my favorite magic deck
Peace guys!
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I think they do two completely different things. I am running 2x Howling Mine as well just like your list
Search just makes your combo turns just a little better by helping you draw into what you need.
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So with experience to burn then, how often would you say you run into situations where you Chalice on 1 and they immediately destroy it with destructive revelry? Is it worth the sideboard in?
If it sticks it shuts off like 75% of their deck..
The more I think about it, the more I am thinking of running 2x tho
My friend owns and plays the deck and it's already a favorable matchup before side boarding anyhow since all of their cards are cast at sorcery speed meaning our remand/gigadrowse are super strong
There is no KCI in my local meta, but I run into it online sometimes. They (like burn and elves) really benefit from drawing the extra cards we give them, more so than many decks.
I hate to be the broken record whose answers are all just the same white cards over and over, but KCI should have a pretty rough time playing through Stony Silence, Leyline of Sanctity and Rest In Peace.
If your splashing red then I'd lean on Shatterstorm but By Force might also be viable.
I dont think Hurkyl's Recallis as good beccause it will let them draw all those extra cards as they replay their hand next turn.
Uw Taking Turns
The Bad Moon
Small Mardu Midrange
Big Mardu Midrange
Grixis Waste Not Combo
Bw 8-Rack
Bw Midrange
Honestly im hoping this weekend goes like my last modern classic I went to where I played five rounds against Tron haha... super easy matchup lol
I think black is a really good splash
@Timewalkinonsunshine Are you still doing the red splash? Are you still liking it?
Thanks for the info everyone! Hopefully I'll get to play against more KCI soon and try some of this out.
Yeah, still running the same 75 from GP Las Vegas on Magic Online and I've been liking it a lot so far. I just wish Wizards would print the enemy Battle for Zendikar lands to make the manabase better!
Not that you should really ever play around Choke unless you have friends who really hate losing against Taking Turns like mine lol
Here is a link to my deck list.
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
Anyhow.. I'll be posting a match review on here probably tomorrow morning! Lots of good information!!
Modern Storm
Modern Taking Turns
EDH Jhoira of the Ghitu
Round 1: Mardu Pyromancer, 1-2 (LOSS)
What I learned: Timely reinforcements is really good against them but I think moving forward I will also side in 1-2 Terminus because there are games when they have multiple young pyromancers and the only way to win is by wiping all the tokens. I also noticed that they do end up fizzling at a point (around like turn 4-5) and they have to rebuild by spending entire turns casting faithless lootings.
Round 2: Infect, 2-0 (WIN)
What I learned: This matchup was when I realized how powerful Chalice of the Void is. I was able to get it on 1 early and although he had a Glistener Elf in play, he was unable to cast anything for over seven turns and had to discard a Rancor repetitively. With only taking 1 point of infect each turn I was able to safely combo off without any worries.
Sidenote: Kind of a dumb mistake was that I held onto a path for like three turns not realizing it was a dead card with the chalice in play lol (Still learning the ways of the chalice haha)
Round 3: Jund, 2-0 (WIN)
What I learned: This matchup actually came down to allowing him to draw off of Dark Confidant. I kept his lands tapped with gigadrowse and exhaustion and just allowed him to draw Liliana's and whatnot. After he had lost about 12 life he had to fatal push it in order to not die but I was holding onto snap casters to finish things up anyhow.
Round 4: Death and Taxes, 2-0 (WIN)
What I learned: This was hands down my best round of magic that I have played with the deck. Game 1 I was able to make a very large island and swing for lethal early so there wasn't anything too impressive in that. However, game two I had multiple howling mine effects in play and was drawing 4 cards a turn. I didn't have a win condition yet and only had about 25 cards left in my library. I was able to play Jace and get him to his ultimate without milling myself by gigadrowsing the howling mines several turns and then utilizing them on others to dig deeper for extra turn spells. Then after ult-ing Jace I was able to flash in the remaining 2 dictate on his upkeep to make him draw his library.
Round 5: Affinity, 2-1 (WIN)
What I learned: Game one he drew the nuts and was able to just win with a huge Vault Skirge. On game two I had the play and was able to stick a Chalice on 1 and Terminus his board. From like 4 life I was able to stabilize and it turns out he had the Galvanic Blast in hand but couldn't cast it! (starting to love Chalice a bit). On game 3, he took the play dumped his entire hand over the course of two turns and then on my second turn I drew into Terminus and got rid of everything.
Sidenote: I did try to land a Chalice on 0 but I wasn't impressed. I think moving forward I would only cast them on 1 or 2 as Orithopters and Mox Opals are irrelevant if you can't cast anything of higher mana cost
Round 6: Mono Red Prison, 1-2 (LOSS)
What I learned: Surprisingly Blood Moon actually does hurt if played in the early turns. It is definitely a downside of splashing a second color, other than red. Luckily on game 1 he thought I was on UW control at first so he kind of played around that by putting Chalice on 1 and whatnot, so I was able to combo off. But games 2 and 3 he was able to land several planes walkers making my exhaustion turns still very good for him.
Sidenote: I think this is just a tough matchup in general because there isn't a lot that you can sideboard to properly combat the Goblins and the planeswalkers and disruption. It's a lot to deal with without breaking the combo.
Round 7: Vizier Company, 2-0 (WIN)
What I learned: Terminus is a card. And they don't expect it apparently? Both games he was able to have either Devoted Druid or Vizier in play and then pass and I would wipe the board. He also didn't really have anything relevant after side boarding. He played a Kambal I think but it went to the bottom of the library like the rest of them haha
Round 8: Jeskai Control, 1-2 (LOSS)
What I learned: This was a very skill intensive matchup. I don't think I really knew what to fight over with counter magic and I was so tired from the long day of magic that I missed the opportunity to remand their Teferi on game 3 right before I was about to combo and it allowed them to draw into Logic Knot (I swear they are 80% luck lol). I also boarded in Chalice but realized afterwards that it was kind of useless since I am not too worried about paths or bolts.
So some overall thoughts from the day:
Hmm... the more I think about it, the less effective Chalice seems against KCI. It's a speed bump for sure, but not a lock. Engineered Explosives can effectively always kill all of our Chalices because it's fairly simple to cast Engineered Explosives X=whatever using only colorless mana, and it will enter with zero counters. My instinct is that Chalice X=1 is probably the most effective number to slow them down, given how many one drops there are, but Chalice doesn't seem like a card you can count on to achieve a lock in this matchup. Chalice X=0 only hits Opal, which doesn't sound good enough to me.
Thanks for the report and detailed writeup! Glad to hear that Chalice was carrying its weight, even if it's not good against everything.
It's been a while since I've seen an As Foretold build! I agree with zcowan that Terminus over Elspeth might be a good idea. Sounds unintuitive because high CMC miracle cards play poorly with As Foretold itself, but it turns out they're great with Jace and sometimes you just get lucky. Also, regarding your manabase, you have 8 "easy" white sources (2 Hallowed Fountain, 1 Prairie Stream, 4 Flooded Strand, 1 Plains) and 5 "slow" white sources (3 Tolaria West, 2 Field of Ruin) for 13 white sources total. That number is kind of deceiving though because in an ideal world, you're using your Tolaria West to transmute for Ancestral, and using Field of Ruin to attack the opponent's relevant lands rather than try to fix your own mana. If you feel like you're having trouble casting your white spells, replacing one or both Field of Ruin with more "easy" white sources (eg Glacial Fortress) would probably help. Frank Karsten's article on how many colored mana sources you need to consistently cast your spells is a good read for background information. Good luck in the GP!
If you want to run Thing in the Ice more efficiently though I would recommend you run more cantrips (1-2 opts) as well as keep the path and find cuts somewhere else.. I ran him mainboard for a while and found that the best way to get the most value out of him was by being able to cantrip multiple turns so that he was almost guaranteed to flip on turn 5 when we start to combo.. I could see cutting Day's Undoing. I understand it's purpose in the As Foretold build however I ran that card for a very long time before realizing that there are very few times you will need to reset your deck.
Hope this helps!
EDIT: Also,
What are your opinions regarding switching Remand for Spreading Seas?
Currently I am running 3x Remand mainboard.. I like the card in some matchups but I feel like it doesn't have the same consistency as cutting someone off of their colors in addition to using gigadrowse to deny them the rest of their mana..
In mono blue builds I've been running 2x Remand with 2x Spreading Seas. Feel like it gives you the best of both since Spreading Seas at worst cycles and at best can shut down some decks. Having access to Remand also helps provide some ways to stall/tempo certain decks till you have time to combo. Without Remand I feel like just Cryptic doesn't give enough main deck hate to spell based decks.
Commander: Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim Clerics BW, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest Voltron RWU
I run Thing in the Ice with no cantrips and feel it is plenty powerful just flipping at its own pace. No tricks, no bending over backwards to force it to flip early. I tested up to 7 cantrips at once and have cut down to nothing to fit in more "action" and "early interaction". Cutting all the cantrips lets me go up in Engines (small bonus) and more importantly lets me run 4 Gigadrowse, 4 Remand, 4 Exhaustion, 4 Cryptic Commands, all of which buy me time while simultaneously helping Thing to flip at its own natural pace as we play out our hand.
I run Days Undoing. Not so much because it reshuffles (although running the singleton has won me a disproportionate amount of hands against Lantern Control). The real benefit of the card is that it says "Draw 7 Cards", everything else is secondary. several times I have played out all my stall cards with no engines in play and have had to just cast it and pray I get something good in my new hand of 7. Usually when I am forced to play it this way, I end up with a Gigadrowse or Remand that I can use to help stop the new hand of 7 I just gave them, It is definitely a gamble but its does seem to get me there waaaay more than lose me the game. Ideally it gets cast on turn 8, with a Time Warp. When this happens its the nail in the coffin that draws me into win cons, more lands, more turns, ect... It has proven so effective that I have even pondered going up to 3 or 4 of them and adding 3 Quicken to the deck but have never tested it.
I run 4 remand, and with Tron showing up more and more often(there are now regularly 3-4 tron decks at my local FNMs and they aren't being run by newbie chumps) I am convinced that for this coming Friday I should swap my 4 Remand for 4 Spreading Seas. I may even make space for some number of Seas Claim I could bring in from the side. Many moons ago I had excellent success running 8-Seas as a disruption package. Having your opponent not able to cast spells because all his lands are islands works O.K. against some decks, was useless against Fish(basically produced auto-losses for game 1), but silver bullet territory against many problem decks (Tron, Burn, Junk, Jund). After a couple of months I gave up on 8 seas and shifted to Spreading Seas main, and Seas Claim in the side. When the meta shifted away from Tron, and away form traditional Jund, and into Deaths Shadow decks I gave up the 8-Seas build, but now that Tron is dominant again...
Uw Taking Turns
The Bad Moon
Small Mardu Midrange
Big Mardu Midrange
Grixis Waste Not Combo
Bw 8-Rack
Bw Midrange
A) wow, that looks like it may really help us if we can land it early. Thank you for bringing it up, now that I know it exists... I will likely test it out online one day.
B) I have already discussed this card with several of my local players, and it looks like it might eventually find a home in our 75. It wont really affect us until the very late game when we go to swing in for lethal, and by then we should easily be able to bounce our own Matrix. I have never gotten around to testing it but its probably worth a couple hours of someones time.
C) Back when modern was "new" (5-7 years ago) and Birthing Pod was a thing (20-35% of the meta), Torpor Orb was a must have. I'm not sure if enough of the current meta relies on ETB triggers to justify its use. But it will always be an available option, and should be brought up periodically to keep in mind as an option.
Uw Taking Turns
The Bad Moon
Small Mardu Midrange
Big Mardu Midrange
Grixis Waste Not Combo
Bw 8-Rack
Bw Midrange
But I just wanted to add that I have officially found a very comfortable 75 for UW after tweaking post the Modern Classic
Recent Changes:
My forms of interaction are:
2x Path to Exile, 3x Remand, 3x Gigadrowse, and 2x Spreading Seas
And I have also went -1 Dictate of Kruphix and +1 Search for Azcanta which feels really good.. I had tried it in the past but went around playing it wrong.. I think it offers far more utility staying as an enchantment able to produce miracles and filter away poor draws. Over the past week and a half I have played a lot of games where I have went: Turn 2 Search into Turn 3 Dictate which made the combo a lot smoother.
Just figured I'd offer some more dialogue to what has become my favorite magic deck
Peace guys!
Search just makes your combo turns just a little better by helping you draw into what you need.