Feels like The Mirari Conjecture would be a nice one of. Like a Planeswalker, it's naturally good with taking turns. The first counter gets you back a card draw or counter, second one gets you another turn, last one probably wins you the game on the spot
It does feel over costed by one mana though.
There are a number of cards in this new set I like for the deck, that is not one of them. It just feels far to costly to do nothing the turn it comes into play, and if you have enough mana to cast it and a timewarp you probabaly are in position to win to begin with.
However this set does have a lot.
Merfolk Trickster - Seems like it could be very good in a fast meta to deal with early attackers and can sub as a beater when needed.
Naru Meha, Master Wizard - For our deck in particular, this might actually be a better snapcaster. Larger body and pumps your other snappys, but also comes down on turn 9 to copy a timewarp for 4 and leaves that copy in the yard to be recast with snapcaster. I cannot see me not using one of these in the future.
Tempest Djinn - I am not as up on this as some of my friends but if you can land it on turn 3 in a mono blue list its a solid body that can go over the top and you really do not need many timewarps after that to close out the game.
Time of Ice - This seems right where we want to be in a lot of ways. On turn 4 you disable a creatures while it is in play, which is what we have been doing with gigadrowse and cryptic for a while now, but the fact that it removes them from the board and can prevent attacks in the first place is huge. In a lot of ways it combines exhaustion and Gigdrowse into one card, but still combos with them on later turns.
Dampening sphere - Sideboard of course, but so very good against things like urzatron. The anti storm tech hits us a little, but we can usually turn our way through it.
I think you are being way to optimistic. All of these except voor Dampening Sphere are too expensive and/or too slow without enough impact. Tempest Djinn might be an option, but probably not. Naru 'coming down on turn 9' is completely irrelevant, when we have 9 mana and a Time Warp almost any spell is good enough.
I agree that this is a very optimistic view of a lot of these cards. The Mirari Conjecture seems far too slow at 5 mana. Merfolk Trickster seems generally worse than Snapcaster Mage in that Snapcaster Mage can usually buy more time by flashing back any kind of interactive spell. Naru Meha coming down on turn 9 is way, way too slow. Tempest Djinn is ironically the only card here that I'm optimistic about (I'll get to that below). Time of Ice seems powerful, but too slow at 4 mana. It only stops one thing when it comes down on turn 4, then one more thing on turn 5, and is only guaranteed to bounce those two creatures on turn 6. Dampening Sphere seems fine against Storm and Tron, but it's so narrow that I think there are better sideboard options.
Tempest Djinn strikes me as the best card in Dominaria for our deck, but only for mono-U builds, and only as a sideboard beater option. In a mono-U build with about 20 basic Islands, Tempest Djinn comes down as a 3/4 flier on turn 3 and easily attacks for 4 or more. With that much power, it's very easy to close out a game quickly, especially if your opponent was aggressively fetch-shocking because they think you can't capitalize. It blocks better than an unflipped Thing in the Ice and can probably deter attacks because it'll win combat against whatever it blocks, which helps you stabilize early. If you draw it in the late game, it should be easy to cast it and a Time Warp together for an 8+ power flier that should close the game in just two or three attacks. In terms of dying to removal, it dodges Bolt, which in my experience is the most common post-board removal. It also requires revolt on Fatal Push, but that seems less relevant. In short, checks all of the boxes that make it strong: evasive, resilient to removal, good blocker early, good beater late.
Okay everyone! I just played in just a super FNM tonight and went 3-1 and it felt awesome! I am running a mono blue build which is a little different from the standard that everyone seems to be playing but it feels incredibly smooth given the cards' synergy. The list is included below..
I find that the As Foretold as well as the Howling Mine effects work really nice together. I don't run the whole ancestral vision thing because although I think drawing 3 cards is nice, I think it is better as a utility to cast free cantrips and then eventually free Dictates and whatnot. I am also running only one Jace in the mainboard because I find that he is excellent at setting up Miracles but a lot of other decks are too rewarded by turn 4 tapping out that I would rather sideboard him in against grindy matches..
My only question for the group is how they play against burn. I feel like it is definitely a difficult matchup. I was able to start the combo but as soon as I tapped out he finished me off with two lightning bolts. I am currently running 2x Dispel in the sideboard. Do you think I should up the number? Or how does everyone else play this matchup? Thank you!
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Okay everyone! I just played in just a super FNM tonight and went 3-1 and it felt awesome! I am running a mono blue build which is a little different from the standard that everyone seems to be playing but it feels incredibly smooth given the cards' synergy. The list is included below..
I find that the As Foretold as well as the Howling Mine effects work really nice together. I don't run the whole ancestral vision thing because although I think drawing 3 cards is nice, I think it is better as a utility to cast free cantrips and then eventually free Dictates and whatnot. I am also running only one Jace in the mainboard because I find that he is excellent at setting up Miracles but a lot of other decks are too rewarded by turn 4 tapping out that I would rather sideboard him in against grindy matches..
My only question for the group is how they play against burn. I feel like it is definitely a difficult matchup. I was able to start the combo but as soon as I tapped out he finished me off with two lightning bolts. I am currently running 2x Dispel in the sideboard. Do you think I should up the number? Or how does everyone else play this matchup? Thank you!
Congratulations! Looks like you're killing it.
I used to think that Burn was such a tough matchup before I played the deck. Then when I tried UG Turns for a few weeks, it did also contribute to that same feeling. But...I didn't play Exhaustion at the time. That is really the key to beating Burn. If you are on the play and land some early Spreading Seas, it makes it tough for them to cast what they need exactly at the right times. Then you hope to chain Exhaustions into Snapcaster Mage, Exhaustion, and then try to go off. I actually don't think it's that tough a matchup anymore, although the UW version has 3 Chalice of the Void and 2 Timely Reinforcements in the SB too.
Burn is mostly a deck that is not quite quick enough to present a clock to get us where they need us if we disrupt them. I think that's the key. With Mono Blue, Dispel and Exhaustion are probably the keys to success. Good luck!
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I definitely agree with UW being probably better suited.. but the beauty in this deck is that generally it has good matches against most decks in the format and most decks don't really have any proper interaction in their sideboard to stop us. That being said I could definitely see running 1-2 chalice of the void in the sideboard and increasing the number of Dispel.
I think you win against burn more so with interaction so I think moving forward it would be better to cut Howling Mine effects.. Especially because giving them access to more cards is dangerous.
Thank you!
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Giving them extra draw effects is dangerous only if you don't combo off quickly. I don't think you can play the long game with Burn.
I feel that when you win against Burn, they literally have all the Burn in hand to overkill you, but their mana is taxed, whether it is not getting another turn, having tapped lands and creatures, or being shut out of the game via Chalice. You may cut 1 Howling Mine effect, but you need to keep in enough to go off. If you go off with taking turns and end up having to pass the turn back without an Exhaustion or Chalice of the Void, you probably already lost. That's been my experience, which admittedly is very limited with this deck.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
i've actually always found burn pretty easy. and i'm on monoU. let them fetch and shock, and then boomerang their land, gigadrowse their lands and creature, exhaustion, and then go off.
after side, mull until you find leyline of sanctity and then take all the time you need (pun intended)
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
I'm interested.. What is everyone's opinions on bad matchups?
Personally, I come from playing a lot of Jeskai Control which used to get run over by things like Tron/Eldrazi Tron and Ponza styled decks so I am very happy with how this deck operates against them. I have had no issue winning those 2-0 now.
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Jund can be an issue. GDS can be an issue. Essentially if you face a deck that rips your hand down, and has an ability to land a threat while threatening disruption (Abrupt/Counters) you may be dead. I know when I face Turns online I just run out a Snap Caster and start swinging.
Round 1
Played a friend of mine on Mono-Red Prison. He commences to turn one Blood Moon, but much to his chagrin, I have an all Island hand. He does some other stuff this game that gets him close, including Eidolon and Rabblemaster and Chandra, but I start taking turns and win with infect damage. Game two he runs over me with double Rabblemaster. There is a point at which I Exhaustion him, realize my mistake, and he misses his Rabblemaster triggers. I mini-turns, get to Collective Brutality twice on drain mode, kill both Rabblemasters, get back to 5 life and fizzle, but I'm holding up Cryptic Command. I've Snapback'd his Hazoret, excited that he draws a bunch of cards. With a bunch in hand, he plays Chandra, I cryptic on counter/tap, but he's drawn the way to empty his hand down to one card in Ritual, SSG exile, Hazoret, and Chalice on zero... Game three he encounters mana troubles long enough for me to resolve Jace. I start fatesealing him off of mana. The plan works, and I get to ultimate Jace FTW. Achievement unlocked! 2-1
Round 2
I'm playing against Tron. I have a deep and troubled history with Tron in whatever deck I play. It is probably my most hated matchup. But at least Turns is moderately favored. I'm able to exhaustion and gigadrowse him long enough to take turns to win in G1. G2 he has natural Tron, but opts to turn three Collective Brutality to clear the way. I wait for Karn to resolve (I'm on something abysmal like 2 lands), he goes target land with KL, I scoop. Game 3 I mull to 6 with 2 lands and Commandeer in hand. I hope he has natural Tron turn three. He does, I steal Karn, and commence to lock down his lands and exile them every turn I can, bouncing KL modes as I take turns to huge effect. Achievement #2 unlocked - steal Karn! 2-1
Round 3
I get paired down against a homebrew of Mono Red Madcap Creativity. It has burn and tokens and Platinum Angel/Emperion and is generally ultra fun but pretty jank-tastic. Basically the deck is awesome. I am able to close it out in two, second round siding in Chalices. Notable play in G1 was Commandeering a Tormenting Voice. Achievement unlocked? Also got to Snapback Emperion. It's hard to cast that card. 2-0
Round 4
Everything goes awry against BR Hollow One. We've already agreed to split, but I want to play. I made some errors in sideboarding, and chalk it up to a learning experience. Game 2 I had a solid hand, but he had turn 1 Duress(!) for my Chalice. I got super unlucky to draw all of my white sideboard cards and an uncastable Cryptic all in a row. My lands were Sunken Hollow, Island, Mikokoro, and I. Nexus. Such is life. 0-2
Any thoughts on the deck or suggestions about Hollow One matchup are appreciated! Cheers!
What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
So quick question for everyone. What is the collective thought on JtMS? I loved him at first in the deck but I'm finding that at the moment he's better as a sideboard option against slower decks.. It may be where I'm playing but there are so many fast decks in the format that I feel better running Search for Azcanta in his spot since it flips to a land which is really important in the early turns.
That and I don't think that the combo needs to win through his ultimate either most of the time.. there aren't that many decks locking you out of just winning with part the water veil and snap caster beatdowns..
But I would definitely like to hear everyone else's thoughts
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I'm interested.. What is everyone's opinions on bad matchups?
Personally, I come from playing a lot of Jeskai Control which used to get run over by things like Tron/Eldrazi Tron and Ponza styled decks so I am very happy with how this deck operates against them. I have had no issue winning those 2-0 now.
In my opinion, bad matchups are fast aggro decks like Burn, Affinity, or Humans. Those decks are often fast enough to kill us before they stabilize and go off. My particular build doesn't have cards like Spreading Seas that are sometimes especially good at slowing down decks like Burn or Humans, so some difference in opinion can probably be attributed to deckbuilding decisions. My solution to this is to splash interaction in Fatal Push and Collective Brutality. Other interaction like Path to Exile also seems good.
So quick question for everyone. What is the collective thought on JtMS? I loved him at first in the deck but I'm finding that at the moment he's better as a sideboard option against slower decks.. It may be where I'm playing but there are so many fast decks in the format that I feel better running Search for Azcanta in his spot since it flips to a land which is really important in the early turns.
That and I don't think that the combo needs to win through his ultimate either most of the time.. there aren't that many decks locking you out of just winning with part the water veil and snap caster beatdowns..
But I would definitely like to hear everyone else's thoughts
I think of Jace as a Mine effect first, everything else second. He's also a lot worse to just run out on curve than a Howling Mine would be, and is sometimes a turn 5+ play with Gigadrowse or Exhaustion backup to keep him alive. With this mentality, it's not great to run too many of him (would you run a 4-mana Howling Mine?), but 2 has been the sweet spot for me. When he sticks and you can start chaining turns, he's very good. He does get killed a reasonable amount of the time, which is just a downside you have to accept if you choose to run the card.
Hey y'all! Corbin Hosler posted a Mining Modern of my UB build from Hartford. Playlist on Youtube. Here's a few examples that highlight why the deck is built the way it is, and other miscellaneous stuff:
You'll have to let us know how Veldaken shackles feels in the deck! I like the list, however if I were to recommend, I would cut one shackles for another exhaustion.. It is definitely a very important card to the deck and 3-4 seems like where you want to be at.. and it isn't too pricey either
I took your recommendation before my first game and cut a Shackles for another Exhaustion (I managed to acquire another Exhaustion).
I played Modern for the first time with my deck last week.
I'm still new to Modern, so my descriptions aren't that great. Following is how things went:
Super fun format! Sideboards are definitely important. I went 1-1 and tied a blue/red tempo burn player. Won 1, lost 2 for two other matchups (both decks with lots of discard and liliana of the veil (one day I’ll Commandeer a Liliana of the Veil or Karn Liberated, heheh). Won both games versus an Esper control player. Man is it a rush when you win with turns, haha. Take all the turns!!
You'll have to let us know how Veldaken shackles feels in the deck! I like the list, however if I were to recommend, I would cut one shackles for another exhaustion.. It is definitely a very important card to the deck and 3-4 seems like where you want to be at.. and it isn't too pricey either
I took your recommendation before my first game and cut a Shackles for another Exhaustion (I managed to acquire another Exhaustion).
I played Modern for the first time with my deck last week.
I'm still new to Modern, so my descriptions aren't that great. Following is how things went:
Super fun format! Sideboards are definitely important. I went 1-1 and tied a blue/red tempo burn player. Won 1, lost 2 for two other matchups (both decks with lots of discard and liliana of the veil (one day I’ll Commandeer a Liliana of the Veil or Karn Liberated, heheh). Won both games versus an Esper control player. Man is it a rush when you win with turns, haha. Take all the turns!!
Dope! Glad you're having fun with the deck too! I have been playing a sort of home brew version of mono blue with howling mine effects and as foretold. I'm currently running 3x dictate, 2x howling mine, 2x as foretold, 1x Jace/Search for Azcanta.. and I have to say.. when you are chaining turns together and have as foretold triggers it feels so smooth! Especially because in the early part of the combo you really want to set yourself up with serum vision and whatnot and you can do that for free
Went 3-1 at a 16 person MNM. Have been getting a lot of 3-1s here at this particular store.
Round 1 vs. Lantern. He got Lanterns and Codex Shredders really quickly. He got some discard while I waited to have a chance to draw something good. I keep drawing lands and he mills a few other cards. I drew lands and Exhaustions, so I scooped. In the next game, I lock it up and go off while a Nature's Claim on top of his library. I get there with a big Inkmoth Nexus. In the last game, it is similar to this game. Chalice of the Void on 1 and Stony Silence are pretty good. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. RG Aggro, Saffron Olive's list he said. He rushes me in the first game with haste creatures. I play double Spreading Seas to shut off some plays by him and he doesn't draw a 4th land. He gets there because I have nothing to go off with. I play Jace on turn 4 and he kills me on turn 5. In the next few games, some combination of Timely Reinforcements, Terminus, Exhaustion, and Spreading Seas gets me there. I get there pretty easily going off in both of these games by the time I am ready to go off. It was close until then. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Affinity. My friend who goes with me to another store on Wednesdays. He plays a nut hand, but I do Howling Mine into Exhaustion into Serum Visions/Exhaustion into Time Warp and I get there with a timely miracle Temporal Mastery. It gets easier after that. He plays a bunch of dudes in the next one and all I have is Engineered Explosives on 2. He has double Arcbound Ravager, but eventually gets there. He gets timely Thoughtseizes the turn before I can cast Time Warp, then Part the Waterveil too. Then I go for Temporal Mastery the next turn and his last card is Stubborn Denial. In the last game, I mull to 6. I Serum Visions and keep Chalice of the Void on top, hoping that he wouldn't have turn 1 Thoughtseize. He does off Mox Opal, Memnite, activate Inkmoth Nexus, Thoughtseize, getting my Dictate of Kruphix. I play an Exhaustion later on, but I don't get there. I hard cast Terminus, which I drew off Serum Visions, but an Inkmoth Nexus with Cranial Plating kills me in 2 swings. Rough beats. It's hard for me to get a 4-0 at this place. 1-2.
Round 4 vs. Hollow One. Paired down to an 0-3. He mulls to 5 and doesn't play a land, scooping prematurely. I did have a solid hand with Dictate and double Cryptic Command. In the next game, he puts a lot of pressure, but I Exhaustion him enough to go off and take turns. I play 3 Timely Reinforcements this game, 2 of them only for 1 of the modes. I drew Terminus too. Lots of sideboard cards drawn by me. 2-0.
I get 3-1. Fun games. Glad to not lose to Lantern again.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
So.. has anyone tried running Teferi, Hero of Dominaria? Looks like it would have potential as a one of in a UW taking turns build.. definitely a good card for removing enemy threats that interfere with the combo.. but it could be argued that at five mana you should just be winning by that point.
Definitely would appreciate feedback if anyone has done any testing.. that includes other Dominaria cards as well
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i've been asked to take back the primer, and have agreed to do so. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Xenob8 deeply for his efforts and enthusiasm while shepherding the primer over the last few months. He's a real stand-up dude and we owe him our thanks.
(he isn't disappearing, just wanted to take back some time and that's perfectly reasonable)
on behalf of everyone here, thanks bud!
in terms of the primer, I haven't looked at it in a while. I'll have a bit of time this weekend to get into the nitty-gritty, so if any tweaks or updates need making, let me know here and i'll sort it out.
cheers all,
Ben
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
i've been asked to take back the primer, and have agreed to do so. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Xenob8 deeply for his efforts and enthusiasm while shepherding the primer over the last few months. He's a real stand-up dude and we owe him our thanks.
(he isn't disappearing, just wanted to take back some time and that's perfectly reasonable)
on behalf of everyone here, thanks bud!
Was tinkering with the idea of a karn, scion of urza build. More mine heavy over dictate with chalice in the main to give another wincon and CA engine. Maybe batterskull too?
You guys think this is a rabbit hole worth chasing?
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I agree that this is a very optimistic view of a lot of these cards. The Mirari Conjecture seems far too slow at 5 mana. Merfolk Trickster seems generally worse than Snapcaster Mage in that Snapcaster Mage can usually buy more time by flashing back any kind of interactive spell. Naru Meha coming down on turn 9 is way, way too slow. Tempest Djinn is ironically the only card here that I'm optimistic about (I'll get to that below). Time of Ice seems powerful, but too slow at 4 mana. It only stops one thing when it comes down on turn 4, then one more thing on turn 5, and is only guaranteed to bounce those two creatures on turn 6. Dampening Sphere seems fine against Storm and Tron, but it's so narrow that I think there are better sideboard options.
Tempest Djinn strikes me as the best card in Dominaria for our deck, but only for mono-U builds, and only as a sideboard beater option. In a mono-U build with about 20 basic Islands, Tempest Djinn comes down as a 3/4 flier on turn 3 and easily attacks for 4 or more. With that much power, it's very easy to close out a game quickly, especially if your opponent was aggressively fetch-shocking because they think you can't capitalize. It blocks better than an unflipped Thing in the Ice and can probably deter attacks because it'll win combat against whatever it blocks, which helps you stabilize early. If you draw it in the late game, it should be easy to cast it and a Time Warp together for an 8+ power flier that should close the game in just two or three attacks. In terms of dying to removal, it dodges Bolt, which in my experience is the most common post-board removal. It also requires revolt on Fatal Push, but that seems less relevant. In short, checks all of the boxes that make it strong: evasive, resilient to removal, good blocker early, good beater late.
2x Snapcaster Mage
Spells (36):
4x Time Warp
3x Temporal Mastery
3x Part the Waterveil
3x Exhaustion
2x Gigadrowse
2x Remand
4x Serum Visions
2x Opt
2x As Foretold
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3x Dictate of Kruphix
2x Howling Mine
1x Day's Undoing
2x Cryptic Command
2x Boomerang
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1x Nephalia Academy
3x Flooded Strand
16x Island
2x Dispel
2x Echoing Truth
2x Thing in the Ice
4x Spreading Seas
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Hurkyl's Recall
I find that the As Foretold as well as the Howling Mine effects work really nice together. I don't run the whole ancestral vision thing because although I think drawing 3 cards is nice, I think it is better as a utility to cast free cantrips and then eventually free Dictates and whatnot. I am also running only one Jace in the mainboard because I find that he is excellent at setting up Miracles but a lot of other decks are too rewarded by turn 4 tapping out that I would rather sideboard him in against grindy matches..
My only question for the group is how they play against burn. I feel like it is definitely a difficult matchup. I was able to start the combo but as soon as I tapped out he finished me off with two lightning bolts. I am currently running 2x Dispel in the sideboard. Do you think I should up the number? Or how does everyone else play this matchup? Thank you!
Congratulations! Looks like you're killing it.
I used to think that Burn was such a tough matchup before I played the deck. Then when I tried UG Turns for a few weeks, it did also contribute to that same feeling. But...I didn't play Exhaustion at the time. That is really the key to beating Burn. If you are on the play and land some early Spreading Seas, it makes it tough for them to cast what they need exactly at the right times. Then you hope to chain Exhaustions into Snapcaster Mage, Exhaustion, and then try to go off. I actually don't think it's that tough a matchup anymore, although the UW version has 3 Chalice of the Void and 2 Timely Reinforcements in the SB too.
Burn is mostly a deck that is not quite quick enough to present a clock to get us where they need us if we disrupt them. I think that's the key. With Mono Blue, Dispel and Exhaustion are probably the keys to success. Good luck!
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I think you win against burn more so with interaction so I think moving forward it would be better to cut Howling Mine effects.. Especially because giving them access to more cards is dangerous.
Thank you!
I feel that when you win against Burn, they literally have all the Burn in hand to overkill you, but their mana is taxed, whether it is not getting another turn, having tapped lands and creatures, or being shut out of the game via Chalice. You may cut 1 Howling Mine effect, but you need to keep in enough to go off. If you go off with taking turns and end up having to pass the turn back without an Exhaustion or Chalice of the Void, you probably already lost. That's been my experience, which admittedly is very limited with this deck.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Spirits
after side, mull until you find leyline of sanctity and then take all the time you need (pun intended)
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Personally, I come from playing a lot of Jeskai Control which used to get run over by things like Tron/Eldrazi Tron and Ponza styled decks so I am very happy with how this deck operates against them. I have had no issue winning those 2-0 now.
Spirits
2 Snapcaster Mage
Enchantment
4 Dictate of Kruphix
Land
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Watery Grave
2 Gemstone Caverns
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Hallowed Fountain
8 Island
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Prairie Stream
2 Sunken Hollow
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Howling Mine
Instant
3 Gigadrowse
1 Commandeer
1 Snapback
2 Cryptic Command
2 Fatal Push
Sorcery
3 Exhaustion
4 Time Warp
3 Temporal Mastery
4 Serum Visions
3 Part the Waterveil
1 Collective Brutality
Planeswalker
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Thing in the Ice
2 Rest in Peace
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Commandeer
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Collective Brutality
Round 1
Played a friend of mine on Mono-Red Prison. He commences to turn one Blood Moon, but much to his chagrin, I have an all Island hand. He does some other stuff this game that gets him close, including Eidolon and Rabblemaster and Chandra, but I start taking turns and win with infect damage. Game two he runs over me with double Rabblemaster. There is a point at which I Exhaustion him, realize my mistake, and he misses his Rabblemaster triggers. I mini-turns, get to Collective Brutality twice on drain mode, kill both Rabblemasters, get back to 5 life and fizzle, but I'm holding up Cryptic Command. I've Snapback'd his Hazoret, excited that he draws a bunch of cards. With a bunch in hand, he plays Chandra, I cryptic on counter/tap, but he's drawn the way to empty his hand down to one card in Ritual, SSG exile, Hazoret, and Chalice on zero... Game three he encounters mana troubles long enough for me to resolve Jace. I start fatesealing him off of mana. The plan works, and I get to ultimate Jace FTW. Achievement unlocked! 2-1
Round 2
I'm playing against Tron. I have a deep and troubled history with Tron in whatever deck I play. It is probably my most hated matchup. But at least Turns is moderately favored. I'm able to exhaustion and gigadrowse him long enough to take turns to win in G1. G2 he has natural Tron, but opts to turn three Collective Brutality to clear the way. I wait for Karn to resolve (I'm on something abysmal like 2 lands), he goes target land with KL, I scoop. Game 3 I mull to 6 with 2 lands and Commandeer in hand. I hope he has natural Tron turn three. He does, I steal Karn, and commence to lock down his lands and exile them every turn I can, bouncing KL modes as I take turns to huge effect. Achievement #2 unlocked - steal Karn! 2-1
Round 3
I get paired down against a homebrew of Mono Red Madcap Creativity. It has burn and tokens and Platinum Angel/Emperion and is generally ultra fun but pretty jank-tastic. Basically the deck is awesome. I am able to close it out in two, second round siding in Chalices. Notable play in G1 was Commandeering a Tormenting Voice. Achievement unlocked? Also got to Snapback Emperion. It's hard to cast that card. 2-0
Round 4
Everything goes awry against BR Hollow One. We've already agreed to split, but I want to play. I made some errors in sideboarding, and chalk it up to a learning experience. Game 2 I had a solid hand, but he had turn 1 Duress(!) for my Chalice. I got super unlucky to draw all of my white sideboard cards and an uncastable Cryptic all in a row. My lands were Sunken Hollow, Island, Mikokoro, and I. Nexus. Such is life. 0-2
Any thoughts on the deck or suggestions about Hollow One matchup are appreciated! Cheers!
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
That and I don't think that the combo needs to win through his ultimate either most of the time.. there aren't that many decks locking you out of just winning with part the water veil and snap caster beatdowns..
But I would definitely like to hear everyone else's thoughts
I think of Jace as a Mine effect first, everything else second. He's also a lot worse to just run out on curve than a Howling Mine would be, and is sometimes a turn 5+ play with Gigadrowse or Exhaustion backup to keep him alive. With this mentality, it's not great to run too many of him (would you run a 4-mana Howling Mine?), but 2 has been the sweet spot for me. When he sticks and you can start chaining turns, he's very good. He does get killed a reasonable amount of the time, which is just a downside you have to accept if you choose to run the card.
Why it's ok to fizzle when going off: Match 1 game 1 against Goblins and again
Why it's ok to play Chalice for 1 in a deck with 1 drops: Match 1 game 2 against Goblins and payoff of seeing the hand, Match 3 game 3 against Kiln Fiend, Match 4 game 2 against Burn
Why Mine effects are so important before you start chaining turns: Match 2 game 1 against Doubling Season
Why the Commandeer bug makes this deck so frustrating to play with on Magic Online: Match 2 game 2 against Doubling Season
Why having access to hard removal is worth a splash: Match 3 game 1 against Kiln Fiend, Match 3 game 2 against Kiln Fiend, Match 4 game 3 against Burn and again
Why Thing in the Ice is a reasonable sideboard plan without Mine effects in play: Match 3 game 3 against Kiln Fiend
Why hitting land drops is so important: Discarding a land in match 4 game 3 against Burn and being unable to cast Jace two turns later and lamenting the missed land drop two more turns later
I took your recommendation before my first game and cut a Shackles for another Exhaustion (I managed to acquire another Exhaustion).
I played Modern for the first time with my deck last week.
I'm still new to Modern, so my descriptions aren't that great. Following is how things went:
Super fun format! Sideboards are definitely important. I went 1-1 and tied a blue/red tempo burn player. Won 1, lost 2 for two other matchups (both decks with lots of discard and liliana of the veil (one day I’ll Commandeer a Liliana of the Veil or Karn Liberated, heheh). Won both games versus an Esper control player. Man is it a rush when you win with turns, haha. Take all the turns!!
I'm thinking of cutting the last Vedalken Shackles for a Surgical Extraction or Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
Dope! Glad you're having fun with the deck too! I have been playing a sort of home brew version of mono blue with howling mine effects and as foretold. I'm currently running 3x dictate, 2x howling mine, 2x as foretold, 1x Jace/Search for Azcanta.. and I have to say.. when you are chaining turns together and have as foretold triggers it feels so smooth! Especially because in the early part of the combo you really want to set yourself up with serum vision and whatnot and you can do that for free
Round 1 vs. Lantern. He got Lanterns and Codex Shredders really quickly. He got some discard while I waited to have a chance to draw something good. I keep drawing lands and he mills a few other cards. I drew lands and Exhaustions, so I scooped. In the next game, I lock it up and go off while a Nature's Claim on top of his library. I get there with a big Inkmoth Nexus. In the last game, it is similar to this game. Chalice of the Void on 1 and Stony Silence are pretty good. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. RG Aggro, Saffron Olive's list he said. He rushes me in the first game with haste creatures. I play double Spreading Seas to shut off some plays by him and he doesn't draw a 4th land. He gets there because I have nothing to go off with. I play Jace on turn 4 and he kills me on turn 5. In the next few games, some combination of Timely Reinforcements, Terminus, Exhaustion, and Spreading Seas gets me there. I get there pretty easily going off in both of these games by the time I am ready to go off. It was close until then. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Affinity. My friend who goes with me to another store on Wednesdays. He plays a nut hand, but I do Howling Mine into Exhaustion into Serum Visions/Exhaustion into Time Warp and I get there with a timely miracle Temporal Mastery. It gets easier after that. He plays a bunch of dudes in the next one and all I have is Engineered Explosives on 2. He has double Arcbound Ravager, but eventually gets there. He gets timely Thoughtseizes the turn before I can cast Time Warp, then Part the Waterveil too. Then I go for Temporal Mastery the next turn and his last card is Stubborn Denial. In the last game, I mull to 6. I Serum Visions and keep Chalice of the Void on top, hoping that he wouldn't have turn 1 Thoughtseize. He does off Mox Opal, Memnite, activate Inkmoth Nexus, Thoughtseize, getting my Dictate of Kruphix. I play an Exhaustion later on, but I don't get there. I hard cast Terminus, which I drew off Serum Visions, but an Inkmoth Nexus with Cranial Plating kills me in 2 swings. Rough beats. It's hard for me to get a 4-0 at this place. 1-2.
Round 4 vs. Hollow One. Paired down to an 0-3. He mulls to 5 and doesn't play a land, scooping prematurely. I did have a solid hand with Dictate and double Cryptic Command. In the next game, he puts a lot of pressure, but I Exhaustion him enough to go off and take turns. I play 3 Timely Reinforcements this game, 2 of them only for 1 of the modes. I drew Terminus too. Lots of sideboard cards drawn by me. 2-0.
I get 3-1. Fun games. Glad to not lose to Lantern again.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Definitely would appreciate feedback if anyone has done any testing.. that includes other Dominaria cards as well
i've been asked to take back the primer, and have agreed to do so. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Xenob8 deeply for his efforts and enthusiasm while shepherding the primer over the last few months. He's a real stand-up dude and we owe him our thanks.
(he isn't disappearing, just wanted to take back some time and that's perfectly reasonable)
on behalf of everyone here, thanks bud!
in terms of the primer, I haven't looked at it in a while. I'll have a bit of time this weekend to get into the nitty-gritty, so if any tweaks or updates need making, let me know here and i'll sort it out.
cheers all,
Ben
You guys think this is a rabbit hole worth chasing?