chandra is virtually 2 mana tho, i wouldnt compare her with jace since a turn 4 chandra still lets you do something else
we already have cantrips to set up masteries, sure mastery all four of them would be strong but i dont think that's what we need
turns cries for good early interaction/disruption, not big boys to win/make the combo stronger while going off
This is a very rough sketch of what I would make to be the maindeck. I simply dislike the Mine effects (I think they are subpar) and I like playing with As Foretold.
One of the upsides of running a lot of Jaces is the fact that you can get away with a lot of one ofs in the maindeck, so this list should probably be tweaked A LOT. But this is where my starting point is. Running Scalding Tarn is better than Polluted Delta, but I lack the former.
There's also the fact that maybe you want to play with more interaction. Then I would play UB with Fatal Push in the 75 as well and maybe a Damnation or two.
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Why don't you come and contribute making the best Abzan deck in modern? Abzan Liege
i'd rather go Ug and ramp mana for early jaces tbh. seems better that way i guess
One of the breakout decks when Jace, the Mind Sculptor hit standard was a deck called TurboLands. It used some number of ramp spells like Explore and Oracle of Mul Daya to quickly deploy Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Time Warp. The synergy of putting drawn lands into the top of the library with Jace alongside Oracle of Mul Daya made you essentially draw 3 every turn, helping you dig for those Time Warps. You would generally win the game with a huge Avenger of Zendikar or simply because you drawn so many more cards than the opponent thanks to Jace.
That should be a good starting point reference for UG turns with Jace, I think.
Still, I think you are underestimating Jace a lot. I reckon you probably don't have a lot of experience playing with him and that's why you're quick to dismiss him. Play with the card with an open mind and take conclusions by yourself. He's broken and can win games by himself if unanswered.
But well, I might be wrong as well and he turns out to be terrible. I think this is very unlikely, though.
i'd rather go Ug and ramp mana for early jaces tbh. seems better that way i guess
One of the breakout decks when Jace, the Mind Sculptor hit standard was a deck called TurboLands. It used some number of ramp spells like Explore and Oracle of Mul Daya to quickly deploy Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Time Warp. The synergy of putting drawn lands into the top of the library with Jace along side Oracle of Mul Daya made you essentially draw 3 every turn, helping you dig for those Time Warps. You would generally win the game with a huge Avenger of Zendikar or simply because you drawn so many more cards than the opponent thanks to Jace.
That should be a good starting point reference for UG turns with Jace, I think.
yep i remember it!
i think the best shell for jace at this point is UG with walk the aeons, crucible of world and extra land drop effect to overcome the cost of buy back
also, with all the digs from jace we can basically cut every exta turn spell and just play walk the aeons, this helps making room for interaction/protection
it's not that i understimate him
but we cant simply throw him in turns. we need to build around him a lot. i play mono U and i really done see myself playing him. a ug turn with him/crucible/buy back walk the aeons every turn? seems at least playable and comparablewith other builds
Time will tell. I have been playing the UR version for a while and personally I think he is a welcome upgrade to Chandra, Torch of Defiance. That is not to say she is bad - I just think he is that good.
IMO, I don't like playing with Mine effects, so whenever there's a card that can rival the mine engines, I will take a look at it. I wasn't expecting the unban on Jace, as I overvalue him thanks to playing Cube Drafting and Legacy a lot. But well, I'm happy (my wallet is not, however. I have 4 paper JTMS but I have been mostly playing on MTGO ).
Speaking about MTGO... I hope they fix the Exhaustion bug. It is simply annoying not being able to play with one of the best cards for the deck.
PS: I don't think he needs to be build around that much. He is simply a really good card and he has a lot of sinergies with our strategies. I mean, we need:
1 - Multiple card draws. Check.
2 - Win Condition. Check. Fatesealing an opponent to death is very strong (and frustating on the receiving end).
3 - Resource efficiency. He can do it. If you happen to draw a Temporal Mastery he may well as read: 0: Add 5 mana.
I'm pretty sure not only he doesn't need to be built around, we have an excellent shell to put him into already. Anything extra from that would be overkill.
My thought re:Jace is to go UW and include Terminus, since Jace helps with setting it up. You also get the standard white stuff like path and sideboard hate.
The deck doesn't need to change or warp to try and race out turn three jaces.
Jace is good enough to run at least 2x copies, or more, almost without changing the stock lists at all.
However, with a tweak or two (few more fetchlands, bit more interaction) this deck gains huge capital from running jace. Just the ability to brainstorm to dig and also put miracles back on top. Oof!
We can't get cute running terminus (you want interaction early and not reliant on playing other cards in order to work).
Seriously though this is insanely good news. The turns deck just jumped a lot in power level.
I mean just imagine +2 Jace every turn to stack your own library. It'll only take just a few short turns before you can ultimate Jace to just win the game. Frankly that's bonkers.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
This is where I'm going to start with testing for the main deck. sideboard is some stony silences, leylines, Boseiju, a couple terminuses, we'll see. Maybe some Blessed Alliances for burn and bogles (if that becomes more of a thing locally).
The deck doesn't need to change or warp to try and race out turn three jaces.
Jace is good enough to run at least 2x copies, or more, almost without changing the stock lists at all.
However, with a tweak or two (few more fetchlands, bit more interaction) this deck gains huge capital from running jace. Just the ability to brainstorm to dig and also put miracles back on top. Oof!
We can't get cute running terminus (you want interaction early and not reliant on playing other cards in order to work).
Seriously though this is insanely good news. The turns deck just jumped a lot in power level.
I mean just imagine +2 Jace every turn to stack your own library. It'll only take just a few short turns before you can ultimate Jace to just win the game. Frankly that's bonkers.
This is HUGE news for Turns.
What y'all aren't talking about is that whether or not we even use Jace, the meta is going to shift wayyy towards blue midrange and control. We're the combo deck with 4 Gigadrowse. It's finally a reason to play Turns over Storm or Ad Nauseam.
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If you can cast a spell, you're doing well, If you can't, that's okay, too. It usually takes a few turns before you have enough mana to do anything. Meanwhile, you should figure out whether you need to discard (p.11). Then announce the end of your turn, and let your opponent have a go.
Wow. Just got home from Toronto and now there's a Jace unban. What a weekend!
Here's my round 12 game 3 against Jon Stern on Burn. I think misplayed my land on turn 3, I don't remember exactly why I played the Drowned Catacomb over Sunken Hollow.
Post unban, I'm going to start out by trying -1 Howling Mine, -1 Part the Waterveil, +2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor and see how that plays. With this build, I think it's somewhat realistic that Jace could be protected enough with Push/Brutality/Snapcaster/-1. While I understand that he won't always stick around when you slam him on turn 4, he's definitely powerful enough that he's worth it the times he does stick around. My gut instinct says that 2 or 3 Mind Sculptors is probably sweet spot, because it's you don't want too many 4-mana sorcery speed cards clogging up your hand, and we already have a bunch of those at 5+ mana.
EDIT: Missed Surgical Extraction in the sideboard, that was a late addition.
we already have cantrips to set up masteries, sure mastery all four of them would be strong but i dont think that's what we need
turns cries for good early interaction/disruption, not big boys to win/make the combo stronger while going off
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Field of Ruin
4 Polluted Delta
1 Steam Vents
1 Snow-Covered Island
4 Temporal Mastery
4 Time Warp
4 Exhaustion
4 Cryptic Command
4 Serum Visions
3 Gigadrowse
3 As Foretold
2 Wheel of Fate
2 Snapcaster Mage
This is a very rough sketch of what I would make to be the maindeck. I simply dislike the Mine effects (I think they are subpar) and I like playing with As Foretold.
One of the upsides of running a lot of Jaces is the fact that you can get away with a lot of one ofs in the maindeck, so this list should probably be tweaked A LOT. But this is where my starting point is. Running Scalding Tarn is better than Polluted Delta, but I lack the former.
There's also the fact that maybe you want to play with more interaction. Then I would play UB with Fatal Push in the 75 as well and maybe a Damnation or two.
Currently working on making the best Time Warp deck in here: Taking Turns
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
If he doesn't die? And we get to miracle with him on the board?
That's a win, full stop.
Spirits
One of the breakout decks when Jace, the Mind Sculptor hit standard was a deck called TurboLands. It used some number of ramp spells like Explore and Oracle of Mul Daya to quickly deploy Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Time Warp. The synergy of putting drawn lands into the top of the library with Jace alongside Oracle of Mul Daya made you essentially draw 3 every turn, helping you dig for those Time Warps. You would generally win the game with a huge Avenger of Zendikar or simply because you drawn so many more cards than the opponent thanks to Jace.
That should be a good starting point reference for UG turns with Jace, I think.
Still, I think you are underestimating Jace a lot. I reckon you probably don't have a lot of experience playing with him and that's why you're quick to dismiss him. Play with the card with an open mind and take conclusions by yourself. He's broken and can win games by himself if unanswered.
But well, I might be wrong as well and he turns out to be terrible. I think this is very unlikely, though.
Currently working on making the best Time Warp deck in here: Taking Turns
yep i remember it!
i think the best shell for jace at this point is UG with walk the aeons, crucible of world and extra land drop effect to overcome the cost of buy back
also, with all the digs from jace we can basically cut every exta turn spell and just play walk the aeons, this helps making room for interaction/protection
it's not that i understimate him
but we cant simply throw him in turns. we need to build around him a lot. i play mono U and i really done see myself playing him. a ug turn with him/crucible/buy back walk the aeons every turn? seems at least playable and comparablewith other builds
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
IMO, I don't like playing with Mine effects, so whenever there's a card that can rival the mine engines, I will take a look at it. I wasn't expecting the unban on Jace, as I overvalue him thanks to playing Cube Drafting and Legacy a lot. But well, I'm happy (my wallet is not, however. I have 4 paper JTMS but I have been mostly playing on MTGO ).
Speaking about MTGO... I hope they fix the Exhaustion bug. It is simply annoying not being able to play with one of the best cards for the deck.
PS: I don't think he needs to be build around that much. He is simply a really good card and he has a lot of sinergies with our strategies. I mean, we need:
1 - Multiple card draws. Check.
2 - Win Condition. Check. Fatesealing an opponent to death is very strong (and frustating on the receiving end).
3 - Resource efficiency. He can do it. If you happen to draw a Temporal Mastery he may well as read: 0: Add 5 mana.
I'm pretty sure not only he doesn't need to be built around, we have an excellent shell to put him into already. Anything extra from that would be overkill.
Currently working on making the best Time Warp deck in here: Taking Turns
Spirits
Jace is good enough to run at least 2x copies, or more, almost without changing the stock lists at all.
However, with a tweak or two (few more fetchlands, bit more interaction) this deck gains huge capital from running jace. Just the ability to brainstorm to dig and also put miracles back on top. Oof!
We can't get cute running terminus (you want interaction early and not reliant on playing other cards in order to work).
Seriously though this is insanely good news. The turns deck just jumped a lot in power level.
I mean just imagine +2 Jace every turn to stack your own library. It'll only take just a few short turns before you can ultimate Jace to just win the game. Frankly that's bonkers.
Spirits
3 Path to Exile
3 Opt
4 Serum Visions
4 Temporal Mastery
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Dictate of Kruphix
3 Exhaustion
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Cryptic Command
4 Time Warp
1 Terminus
2 Part the Waterveil
8 Island
2 Prairie Stream
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
i just can see myselfplaying jace in mono u sadly. also, i dont feel buying a 200$ card that might be rebanned in 6 months. no jace for me
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Spirits
would love to see your testing list.
Currently working on making the best Time Warp deck in here: Taking Turns
What y'all aren't talking about is that whether or not we even use Jace, the meta is going to shift wayyy towards blue midrange and control. We're the combo deck with 4 Gigadrowse. It's finally a reason to play Turns over Storm or Ad Nauseam.
Here's my round 12 game 3 against Jon Stern on Burn. I think misplayed my land on turn 3, I don't remember exactly why I played the Drowned Catacomb over Sunken Hollow.
Here's what I was playing at GP Toronto:
3x Howling Mine
4x Dictate of Kruphix
Time Walks
4x Time Warp
3x Temporal Mastery
3x Part the Waterveil
Other Spells
4x Serum Visions
4x Gigadrowse
3x Fatal Push
1x Collective Brutality
2x Snapcaster Mage
3x Exhaustion
2x Cryptic Comand
1x Commandeer
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Polluted Delta
1x Flooded Strand
8x Island
1x Snow-Covered Island
1x Watery Grave
2x Sunken Hollow
3x Drowned Catacomb
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2x Gemstone Caverns
2x Thoughtsieze
1x Collective Brutality
1x Surgical Extraction
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Commandeer
2x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Thing in the Ice
Post unban, I'm going to start out by trying -1 Howling Mine, -1 Part the Waterveil, +2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor and see how that plays. With this build, I think it's somewhat realistic that Jace could be protected enough with Push/Brutality/Snapcaster/-1. While I understand that he won't always stick around when you slam him on turn 4, he's definitely powerful enough that he's worth it the times he does stick around. My gut instinct says that 2 or 3 Mind Sculptors is probably sweet spot, because it's you don't want too many 4-mana sorcery speed cards clogging up your hand, and we already have a bunch of those at 5+ mana.
EDIT: Missed Surgical Extraction in the sideboard, that was a late addition.
Currently working on making the best Time Warp deck in here: Taking Turns