The negates were previously Boomerang. It is them and the Psionic Blasts that I am looking at changing up for something more useful.
I think at that point I'd legitimately ask; what's the advantage of going mono blue.
The ability to lightly splash a colour for powerful sideboard options (leyline/sweepers/stony silence etc etc) has such a low opportunity cost I'd question the determination to remain just one colour more than I'd question the inclusion of a second one. Is that fair? I feel like that's fair at this stage.
It's pretty easy to splash for stuff like stony silence or rest in peace. Is there a reason you're not doing it? Also; no judgement implied but do bear in mind when you answer that this is a thread intended for competitive deck development; budgetary concerns shouldn't impact how we choose to refine and improve the deck. Not saying that's your reason but it does crop up from time to time. The maindeck ratchet bombs have some alarm-bells ringing for me in terms of competitiveness and metagame viability.
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Also - please can you give me more insights about Ratchet bombs? When you side them in? When and how you use them? And what are the maybe the non-obvious plays with them, those that you just learn by playing with them?
Thaaanks
i'd say ratchet bomb is much worse than Engineered Explosives in general (another reason to splash a second colour) but it's good against tokens, 0 cost artifacts and the occasional 1-drop.
this leaves it being fairly mediocre against the current metagame, where death's shadow plays tasigur and gurmag angler, eldrazi has big dudes and most other aggro decks are running quite a few 2-drops. Ratchet bomb is too slow in general, which is why only decks like Eldrazi can afford to play it (because they don't have any other option and it helps to deal with chump blockers - not a concern of ours).
as for fetchlands, you shouldn't let the shuffle effect bother you. I've played a splash in turns for over a year and you only need 4 fetches. I also run 1 hallowed fountain, 3 prairie stream (basically tundra in this deck), one filterland (mystic gate) and a single glacial fortress. I am still running 9 islands in the deck and regularly draw/fetch them, so the deck plays over and above nearly every other deck in modern in terms of number of basics and blood moon defense. Even elves plays less, with only 5 basics on average.
(also you should never mill yourself out - what's your wincon? surely you just play until you hit a PtW and then you win, right? This is why we run 3! My rounds are often over after about 15 minutes and I regularly only have to take 6 or so extra turns each game, just to get the land-count up before I cast PtW)
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I feel playing against bant spirits, casting a thing in the ice is crucial!
Casting a Thing in the Ice, and then being able to actually flip it, are two different things.
You have to make sure you have enough low cost instants and sorceries that you can flip Thing in the Ice when you need to. You cannot rely upon casting it, and hoping that in the next 3 or 4 turns you get a chance to flip it. You really have to make sure you are building around using it as a board wipe if you are going to include it in your deck. If you do, it can be really strong, and coupled with additional turns after that, it could produce the condition for a game win at that point.
I've not played against bant spirits with this deck (I've crushed it with tron a few times though).
Am I right in thinking that bant spirits isn't really a deck anyone should be worried about though? Low enough tier that you wouldn't expect to see it at a tournament, and it's the exception rather than the rule.
Thing in the ice, while I love the card, seems in danger of being pushed out by something like ghostly prison, although I do think it's a good secondary wincon in the event of an extraction effect. It's also great against Affinity and decent against burn as a "utility" blocker.
I feel like I'm missing something with my sideboard though. What big matchups are slipping through my net that need addressing strongly? Am I missing a particular angle of hate against something powerful?
Thing in the ice, while I love the card, seems in danger of being pushed out by something like ghostly prison, although I do think it's a good secondary wincon in the event of an extraction effect. It's also great against Affinity and decent against burn as a "utility" blocker.
I love TiTi too, but after enough tests I can say that it doesn't help against our worst matchup: merfolk (snag, dismember, harbinger), burn (block plus bolt), elves (overwhelmed by speed and numbers) and bant spirits (PtE, etb effects) remains almost unwinnable even with 4 TiTi in the board.
A couple of TiTi are OK against surgical effects, but we can have the same results with more copies of Snapcaster, or 1 jace and 1 Elixir (which also prevent surgical), or Faerie Conclave!
I've never come across Surgical Extraction this year. I mostly play at my LGS though so it's a small meta. Is the secret out so to speak on those cards? I always thought Extirpate/Surgical were underrated at taking apart meta decks by removing critical playsets.
Thing in the ice, while I love the card, seems in danger of being pushed out by something like ghostly prison, although I do think it's a good secondary wincon in the event of an extraction effect. It's also great against Affinity and decent against burn as a "utility" blocker.
I love TiTi too, but after enough tests I can say that it doesn't help against our worst matchup: merfolk (snag, dismember, harbinger), burn (block plus bolt), elves (overwhelmed by speed and numbers) and bant spirits (PtE, etb effects) remains almost unwinnable even with 4 TiTi in the board.
A couple of TiTi are OK against surgical effects, but we can have the same results with more copies of Snapcaster, or 1 jace and 1 Elixir (which also prevent surgical), or Faerie Conclave!
I disagree with this. The reason that Thing in the Ice from the sideboard helps in many of our bad matchups is that it can win the game substantially faster (just 2 or 3 attacks!) than things like Snapcaster, Jace, Elixir, or Faerie Conclave. The amount of "time off" you take to cast TitI is the same as Howling Mine, so it really shouldn't set our game plan back by much.
In many of the situations that you described, I think it's either unrealstic for the opponent to have those cards in a postboard game, or TitI is actually still doing much more than you give it credit for. Against Merfolk, I doubt they keep in Snag and Dismember against us, and you can potentially play around Harbinger by not attacking until you can Gigadrowse (to get rid of blockers and cut them off Harbinger mana) then warp twice (for lethal). Against Burn's block + bolt, your two mana spell just bought you 5+ life. Against Elves, if you couldn't win before flipping TitI, that game was probably unwinnable with any non-Hibernation card anyway. If you do flip TitI, you've just set your opponent so far back that you should extremely favored to win. Against Bant spirits, Path means you just cast a bad Rampant Growth that makes the opponent discard a card, and the EtBs are rarely relevant enough to really care about.
That said, I don't think you need 4 TitI. I'm still running 2 (see bottom of post for list).
What do we think? Does dropping titi from the 75 make the deck a dog against extraction effects from death's shadow?
I think that dropping TitI is a mistake. As I said above, it has been really good for me in some our bad matchups, even when the opponent can kill it. It's a key for enabling fast kills that are important against decks like Burn, Merfolk, and Elves. I see the incidental plus against Surgical Extraction effects as just an incidental positive, not a primary reason to keep it.
I've been running no graveyard hate in the sideboard and had no problems yet. I think that our Dredge matchup is generally winnable enough between Gigadrowses, Exhuastions, Cryptic Commands, and Dredge just not having the nuts very often. That said, if you're expecting to face a substantial amount of Dredge, then it seems reasonable to keep it.
I'm also unsure of Negate and Runed Halo. When do you bring those in?
I see you're still running Thoughtseize and not Inquisition of Kozilek, like you had pondered after GP LA. Did you end up testing Inquisition?
I didn't test Inquisition, but so far neither the 2 life nor the 3 cmc restriction would have made much of a difference in the games I played. I still think that Inquisition would be better in more situations that Thoughtseize, but honestly I just haven't gotten around to replacing them yet.
I see you've also swapped Inkmoth for another Gemstone Caverns. I feel like I should try out Gemstone Caverns.
The second Gemstone Caverns has been pretty good for me so far. Starting with one in the opener is very big game, and it's been very rare that I've drawn two Gemstone Caverns at a point in the game where the legend rule mattered. Inkmoth has just not been doing much for me recently.
I am currently attempting a black splash to see how well it works before GP Birmingham, so any advice there would be gratefully received.
In general I think the splashes with this deck should be small, because the blue core of the deck is quite strong. If you're running cards like Commandeer or Snapback, having the critical mass of blue cards is another really important reason to not go overboard with a splash. With that mindset, the deck is nearly mono-blue with just a few cards that really help in the otherwise poor matchups.
It appears everyone is now running Commandeer - is it really that useful? Pitching 2 cards from hand seems like a lot of card disadvantage to me.
It is card disadvantage, but often it's worth it. Usually I pitch a Temporal Mastery or Part the Waterveil that I was many turns away from casting plus one blue card that I marginally care about. Commander then lets you do something like counter the opponent's counterspell for free, change the target of an Abrupt Decay from Mine to Tarmogoyf, change the target of Rift Bolt to Goblin Guide, or take a planeswalker (turn 3 Karn is a fun one). These kinds of things are worth the card disadvantage, just as there are many situations that are worth the card disadvantage of Force of Will in Legacy.
So, I'm also looking to play in the GP and wanted to see if there's any important updates (especially from purklefluff, since I'm basically running his white splash list). I can already definitely see the reasoning behind dropping the Remands and playing Path mainboard.
It seems like the current preferred split is 3 Mines and 4 Dictates, alright. Does Commandeer actually play well (never used the card myself), because I'd lean towards playing three Cryptics instead?
@purklefluff: Swapping a Hallowed Fountain for a Glacial Fortress seems good, but is Oboro worth it? With 3 Prairie Streams, I'd kinda of like to keep my nonbasic count down (which is why I'm also not feeling a second Caverns). Playing the full 4 Leylines seems very reasonable, although I don't think I'm ready to drop TiTi yet. I like Stony Silence, Supreme Verdict and the 3/1 CotV/EE split. I've used Runed Halo in other decks before and the card is honestly great at the moment (shutting down Shadow and Scapeshift with the same card is amazing), but have you tested whether you consistently have WW early on? I'm also not a fan of Negate and RIP in Turns, so I'd probably rather play 2 Timely Reinforcements instead, but I'm interested what you think.
All good questions.
Timely is solid, no complaints from me. I'm experimenting with the sideboard a bit to feel out the tricky matchups. I haven't yet got a solid feel for how often I can get double white early in the game, so it's definitely a tricky one. I do know that I've been able to consistently hit the double white by the time I need supreme verdict.
Commandeer has been great although it does have its bad matchups. Sometimes it's a free way to disrupt a combo or save you from a Karn or whatever. Other times it's a counterspell. Generally you tend to be using it once you've got a mine on the field, so pitching cards to it isn't such a big deal (you'll have plenty to choose from). Also thankfully the deck has quite a bit of redundancy so pitching stuff doesn't really take away from your overall wincon. Just be mindful not to cut yourself off a potential winning line by pitching something you need.
In fairness, oboro could quite easily be another island. I haven't seen choke or boil seeing any legitimate play in over a year (the cards still exist but I'd wager they aren't currently the go-to options for hosing blue decks).
Bearing in mind CoCo decks are the third most played deck in paper according to the recent metagame breakdown, I'm keeping inkmoth in the deck. Sometimes it shortens your clock and gives you an evasive threat. Other times it beats the infinite life that you still see fairly often in top-tier strategies. Over 15 rounds of modern play I'd expect to see coco at least once.
Rest in peace is kind of necessary. It switches off enough decks and also extraction effects that it's worth it as a singleton. In fairness, ghostly prison (a card that's flitted in and out of my sideboard) could potentially be better? Hoses dredge, elves, merfolk, etc while playing very well with your gigadrowse and exhaustion plan.
Go with what you think is best. The maindeck seems pretty good although in some matchups I do miss remand a lot.
And also I'm with you guys on TiTi and I'll be keeping it in the 75. It's won me so many games in the past I've felt like the deck is missing something without it in terms of speed and beating stuff like affinity.
Good luck, we might bump into each other if you're going to GP Birmingham. Me and a couple of friends are going as a gang.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I will be. I'm testing out a black splash for it, but might end up mono blue.
I wonder what the mirror match is like..?
Pack Redirect just in case lol - It's great against discard, Cryptic, Time Warp, and counters. I'm personally looking into Gemstone Caverns and other acceleration so I can get a turn ahead and pull off dopey cards like Boomerang and Recirect.
I will be. I'm testing out a black splash for it, but might end up mono blue.
I wonder what the mirror match is like..?
The black splash has been best for me in matchups where Fatal Push is great, which happen to be some of the worse matchups for mono blue (Burn, Elves, Merfolk, Affinity, Zoo). If you're not expecting to run into much of those kinds of matchups, then mono blue is probably better.
I've played the mirror match once, and my opponent won in part thanks to having more Commandeers than I did. Counterspells are generally bad because of Gigadrowse, so the match was about hitting land drops, getting the Gigadrowse in, and comboing off, hopefully using your opponent's Mine effects. It's a pretty interesting matchup in terms of timing when to use Mine effects pre-board and figuring out what in the world you should do post-board.
I'm fairly interested in playing this deck but I have a question about some of the lists ive been seeing.
Most of them tend to run 3 Chalice of the Void out of the side, is that 100% necessary? Is there something else you would put in its place that also could work? I don't own any and I have friends who do, but I would prefer to not be borrowing cards from them all of the time.
I'm more interested in the UW list than the mono blue or UB version, Since having access to the White Leyline or Runed Halo seems very good in my meta which has a lot of discard/targetted kills with titanshift style decks.
If you all could give me any pointers, that would be awesome. Thank you!
I did some late GP testing yesterday with the updated list. Looks like I probably will in fact play the 1 Commandeer, I managed to snag a turn 2 Cathartic Reunion from Dredge, that was absolutely fantastic. I'll edit this post later to include some more thoughts I have on the list. I really want to make a detailed sideboarding plan for the most common matchups.
Woah woah woah...So they have to discard two...and you get to draw THREE??? Ugh, that's such a sneaky play. Okay maybe I do like Commandeer. Now just need to decide if 1-2 is best. Are there any decks it's awful against?
After stealing a turn one Inquisition and then using it to rip a thoughtsieze out of their hand... I became a convert and moved away from just 2 in the side. Since then i run one main and one in the side.
It is bad (less than awesome) against a few creature heavy decks (like elves) but quite relevent against burn. Note than Eidolon is an enchantment and can be the new legal target for destructive revelry
Don't hate me guys, I swapped my main event registration for the Modern Fanatic weekend pass. I'll be there jamming modern all weekend but as I haven't done enough testing recently, I felt like I would be putting myself at a disadvantage that I wouldn't have had maybe a year ago. It's a lot of time and money to sink into a tourney where you're starting as the underdog in a format that values sheer reps above almost anything else.
Instead of scrubbing just short of prizes (I'm sure I'd do OK, just not too hopeful of making a decent return) I'm going to destroy the prize wall like previous years and leave with approx £300 of boosters and promos.
Took the line of most value.
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Well, that does very little for my confidence, as I'm pretty sure you have more experience with the deck. Looking at the £60 cost of just the main event registration, side events seem a lot more enticing (not necessarily cheap, but at least the Pound is low right now). Only time I ever made serious bank was by only playing side events as well (albeit Limited), so there's that. I definitely wouldn't be able to make the first Friday side event in the Modern Fanatic package, but it looks like it you still save money with it. Thinking about it.
Don't let my decision sway you in any way, I just took the line that was best for me personally. I'm a good player (I'd say my performances at events puts me in the top chunk of players generally) but lately I've had a lot of job & family stuff to contend with, so my regular practice and fnm attendance has gone out the window. Simply put, I predict (and I'm being honest with myself) that I'm not at the top of my game in terms of practice and technical play and would make a few stupid punts which I might regret. Last year around this time, I was top of my game. Maybe a month from now I will be again. Right now I need to manage my own expectations and just have fun (and get some great practice) while winning prize wall tickets.
Bear in mind we don't often get a modern GP! So if it's something you have been looking forward to, go and enjoy it! Bark bark, be a shark.
Also I'm going with friends and honestly I'd quite like the ability to socialise between smaller events rather than grind all weekend without any real break. Call me a filthy casual, I'm fine with that, but I work hard & need a break :).
Also also; I have a booster collection (for chaos drafting!) and would like the opportunity to add to it. For the last couple of years the biggest additions have come from prize wall winnings at GPs.
Like I said, please don't let my decision affect your confidence in any way. I made this very personal choice for me, because of my current life situation, where I can recognise that despite being a good player, I've got a bit rusty on my technical play recently. If the main event is something you've been testing for and building up to, go and crush it my friend and I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines.
Magic is about fun, but it's also about community and a bunch of people supporting each other. I'm gonna be "that guy" now and say: Dude, do what you want to do, and kick ass while doing it. I'll be there at the event, doing my thing as well. We'll all have a great time and laugh about it in the coming weeks/months.
Definitely don't make a choice you might regret. I have no regrets making the call to swap my main event registration for side events because I knew it would make me happier and give me a more fun weekend with my mates. That's just me; you will have a different set of circumstances and you've got to do what's best for you. If that's giving the main event a fair crack of the whip and "testing your mettle" then get pumped and do it like a champ.
I mean the sheer fact that you're considering playing turns, of all things, shows me that you take pride in your deck-choice, your style and want to succeed with your own personal statement. That's something to celebrate.
Anyway mini-rant-slash-pep-talk over. I'm still gonna be getting my competitive kicks this weekend and I'm hoping to utterly destroy the prize wall. Don't worry about me
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My GP main event aka Tales of Misfortune and Misery
Round 1 - 0-2 vs Merfolk
Game 1: Oh joy! My first opponent is a Merfolk player with a Pro Tour playmat, who goes first, keeps seven and opens with Island, Aether Vial. He takes an Exhaustion from my hand with turn 3 Vendillion Clique (which actually felt wrong, since I was on track to get mana screwed and had no mine). He gets out multiple lords quickly and I can't stop the beatdown.
Sideboard: I didn't note what I boarded out (Commandeer for sure), but I boarded in all sweepers (2 TitI, 2 Supreme Verdicts, Engineered Explosives).
Game 2: Mull to 6, my opponent keeps 7. I keep a one lander, but thanks to two Serum Visions, my mana ends up better than in the first game. The card is just amazing. I have two Things and two Supreme Verdicts, which is a bit awkward. He plays Clique on 3 (again), sees both Supreme Verdicts and picks Exhaustion (again; still feels wrong). He Dismembers my first Thing, I have to expend the first Supreme Verdict. I have nothing going on and play Time Warp into open mana, which brings out a Unified Will, unsurprisingly. I manage to flip my second Thing, he bounces it back on attack with Harbinger. I'm at 4 life and have to Supreme Verdict since he also has a Mutavault. He plays two lords and activates Mutavault with his last mana to kill me. Didn't draw one Path to Exile in either game.
Round 2 - 2-1 vs Mono-Red Burn
Game 1: My opponent doesn't seem to be the most serious player and basically straight up tells me he's playing Burn. He's also tired (me too) and allergic to coffee (saddest thing I heard all day). Alright. We both mull to 6, I keep a relatively weak hand. He turns out to be Mono-Red Burn with Vexing Devils. His 6 card hand turns out to be way more effective and I don't draw diddly-squat. I only cast a Gigadrowse that game; it probably would have been worth just concealing all information to be honest.
Sideboard: I board out the Mines, Snapcaster (could have been Gigadrowse) and Exhaustion, board in the Leylines, Chalices and the Timely Reinforcements
Game 2: I keep a 7 card hand with Leyline. He scoops.
Game 3: I keep a 7 card hand with 2 Leylines. He scoops. Mono-Red Burn y'all.
Round 3 - 0-2 vs Conventional Jund (god why)
Game 1: I have a good hand, but my opponent is on Jund and sticks a turn 2 Dark Confidant. With Abrupt Decay and discard he keeps me from landing a mine effect. Cryptic does phenomenal work and Exhaustion/Gigadrowse stall nicely, but I have to deal with a Liliana as well and eventually fall to Huntmaster of the Fells. It's foiled out Jund versus foiled out Taking Turns, we actually have some spectators.
Sideboard: I board out 3 Gigadrowse, the mines and a Temporal Mastery, board in the Leylines, the Supreme Verdicts and Timely Reinforcements.
Game 2: I keep a full hand with a Leyline (score!), but I draw rather poorly. He's not putting a lot of pressure on me (his 2/3 Tarmogoyf isn't even worth the Path), but eventually he plays Huntmaster and builds up a board. Luckily, I topdeck an Exhaustion which allows me to try and go for turns. And I actually whiff, drawing my other Leylines instead of extra turn spells. I have to pass back to him, he puts me to one life. I have to keep up Cryptic to keep from dying to his two Raging Ravines (have to be ready to tap and bounce the other) and Leyline is the only thing saving me from dying to the Huntmaster trigger. I finally clear the board with Verdict, but I need to get 9 mana for an awakened PtW since I've already played two and my ninth land is a Flooded Strand. He finds his single Maelstrom Pulse, kills the Leyline and wins with Collective Brutality. Sad loss, considering I had the Leyline and he boarded strangely (took out Lightning Bolt but kept in other creature removal).
Round 4 - 0-2 vs Infect (what have I done to deserve this)
Game 1: Yeah. It's actual GU Infect. In 2017. He mulls to 6, goes first, has turn 1 Noble Hierarch, turn 2 Blighted Agent, Blossoming Defense against my Path aaaand I'm dead turn 3. Aye.
Sideboard: Again, not sure what I boarded out, but Commandeer for sure. Brought in the 3 Chalices and EE.
Game 2: It's been to long since I last played against Infect. I totally forgot how blisteringly fast it really is. I honestly should have just mulliganed till I found Chalice or multiple Paths. He goes Hierarch into Agent again and Spell Pierces my miracle'd Temporal Mastery. Once more, I die turn 3.
Round 5 - 1-1-1 vs GB Tron
Game 1: It's Tron. Actual, classic honest-to-god tentacle-free Tron. Should be a good matchup, especially since I start with a Gemstone Caverns, but my hand happens to be weak against Tron. He plays World Breaker on my Mine and I see no better winning line than casting Time Warp on 5 mana without a mine. I proceed to get a sequence of 100% perfect topdecks and suddenly I'm back in the game with a Dictate, a Mine and a good number of lands. In the end, however, I have to pass back to him and he casts an Ulamog and gets another World Breaker into his hand with Ancient Stirrings. Thankfully, my opponent isn't completely familiar with my deck (not surprising) and exiles one land and the Mine with Ulamog, leaving me the chance to combo. I'm able to do so and awaken a land with my last PtW, only to then whiff. I have to pass back, he plays the Worldbreaker and exiles my awakened land, leaving me unable to win. I had drawn more than half my deck and didn't see even a single Gigadrowse or Exhaustion. Terribly unlucky.
Sideboard: Board out 2 Paths, board in my 2 Stony Silences.
Game 2: I have to mulligan to 5 and keep a hand that has absolutely nothing but an active Commandeer. I'm ready to just accept my loss to a Worldbreaker, but turn 4 he actually casts Karn! I take the Karn, but he has a Nature's Claim for my Dictate of Kruphix (I'm actually hellbent now). I use Karn to take him off Tron, but I'm down one game and can't risk having him topdeck a missing Tron piece and deal with my Karn, so I can't just go for the plus but rather have to yo-yo Karn. Being in complete topdeck mode and mana screwed I'm lacking backup and can't get a winning extra turn with Karn. Two of my friends were playing Tron at the event and in their testing they had found that going first was the mirror's main deciding factor since you could land Karn first. And sure enough, having Karn before the Tron player does win me the game, but my opponent tries to find an out for quite a few turns before scooping and now we're running low on time.
Game 3: We both mull to 6 and I keep a one lander with a Serum Visions, a Howling Mine, a Stony Silence and a barely active Commandeer. He starts with an egg, I draw a blue card off Serum Visions and put a fetch to the top. Turn 2 he cracks the egg and casts Thoughtseize, which I Commandeer. His hand is just lands, artifacts and a Warping Wail, which I take. On my turn 2, I fetch for Hallowed Fountain and bring the game to a screeching halt with Stony Silence. The Howling Mine puts me in the driver seat, but being low on cards, it takes too long for me to find a PtW to go for the win. Time is called and during the game's fourth extra turn, I pass back to him. He's entirely tapped out, under Stony Silence with no recourse, I'm representing Cryptic and guaranteed lethal on the follow turn with multiple mine effects. Even though a draw eliminates both of us from the tournament, he ends his turn, tying the match. Really interesting match, but a depressing result, especially overall.
A couple of lines were arguably not optimal in hindsight, but I played the matches without egregious mistakes, so going 1-3-1 due to bad matchups and loads of mulligans was certainly disappointing. I'm not sure if I have any major gripes with the decklist right now, I assume it would have done better against more expected meta decks. I'll freely admit that I am a pretty weak deckbuilder in Constructed, which is why I'd be particularly interested in how the blue-white list played for purklefluff in the side events.
How would you feel about including several copies of Swan Song in your 75? I've used it with great effect against Infect. I also haven't had a chance to play Nimble Obstructionist against Tron but it seems quite effective against all of the cards that gave you trouble in that matchup. I also mainboard 2x copies of Redirect as a hedge against combo and aggro decks that use mana dorks and burn//buff spells.
I think you may have convinced me of the white splash. Leyline and Verdict seems STRONG for this particular meta. Leyline being more...timeless....*puns are fun
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I think at that point I'd legitimately ask; what's the advantage of going mono blue.
The ability to lightly splash a colour for powerful sideboard options (leyline/sweepers/stony silence etc etc) has such a low opportunity cost I'd question the determination to remain just one colour more than I'd question the inclusion of a second one. Is that fair? I feel like that's fair at this stage.
It's pretty easy to splash for stuff like stony silence or rest in peace. Is there a reason you're not doing it? Also; no judgement implied but do bear in mind when you answer that this is a thread intended for competitive deck development; budgetary concerns shouldn't impact how we choose to refine and improve the deck. Not saying that's your reason but it does crop up from time to time. The maindeck ratchet bombs have some alarm-bells ringing for me in terms of competitiveness and metagame viability.
i'd say ratchet bomb is much worse than Engineered Explosives in general (another reason to splash a second colour) but it's good against tokens, 0 cost artifacts and the occasional 1-drop.
this leaves it being fairly mediocre against the current metagame, where death's shadow plays tasigur and gurmag angler, eldrazi has big dudes and most other aggro decks are running quite a few 2-drops. Ratchet bomb is too slow in general, which is why only decks like Eldrazi can afford to play it (because they don't have any other option and it helps to deal with chump blockers - not a concern of ours).
as for fetchlands, you shouldn't let the shuffle effect bother you. I've played a splash in turns for over a year and you only need 4 fetches. I also run 1 hallowed fountain, 3 prairie stream (basically tundra in this deck), one filterland (mystic gate) and a single glacial fortress. I am still running 9 islands in the deck and regularly draw/fetch them, so the deck plays over and above nearly every other deck in modern in terms of number of basics and blood moon defense. Even elves plays less, with only 5 basics on average.
(also you should never mill yourself out - what's your wincon? surely you just play until you hit a PtW and then you win, right? This is why we run 3! My rounds are often over after about 15 minutes and I regularly only have to take 6 or so extra turns each game, just to get the land-count up before I cast PtW)
Casting a Thing in the Ice, and then being able to actually flip it, are two different things.
You have to make sure you have enough low cost instants and sorceries that you can flip Thing in the Ice when you need to. You cannot rely upon casting it, and hoping that in the next 3 or 4 turns you get a chance to flip it. You really have to make sure you are building around using it as a board wipe if you are going to include it in your deck. If you do, it can be really strong, and coupled with additional turns after that, it could produce the condition for a game win at that point.
Am I right in thinking that bant spirits isn't really a deck anyone should be worried about though? Low enough tier that you wouldn't expect to see it at a tournament, and it's the exception rather than the rule.
Here's my sideboard right now. Advice please!
Thing in the ice, while I love the card, seems in danger of being pushed out by something like ghostly prison, although I do think it's a good secondary wincon in the event of an extraction effect. It's also great against Affinity and decent against burn as a "utility" blocker.
I feel like I'm missing something with my sideboard though. What big matchups are slipping through my net that need addressing strongly? Am I missing a particular angle of hate against something powerful?
Also; thoughts on celestial purge and Ceremonious Rejection in the current meta?
I've never come across Surgical Extraction this year. I mostly play at my LGS though so it's a small meta. Is the secret out so to speak on those cards? I always thought Extirpate/Surgical were underrated at taking apart meta decks by removing critical playsets.
What do we think? Does dropping titi from the 75 make the deck a dog against extraction effects from death's shadow?
For reference here's my maindeck:
4x temporal mastery
3x part the waterveil
4x dictate of kruphix
3x howling mine
4x gigadrowse
3x exhaustion
2x cryptic command
3x path to exile
1x commandeer
2x snapcaster mage (wondering if maybe the snapcasters or just one of them should be a TiTi)
4x flooded strand (gonna swap these out for a different U fetch to help put opponents off during first couple of turns of the game)
9x island
3x prairie stream
1x hallowed fountain
1x glacial fortress
1x inkmoth nexus
1x mikokoro, centre of the sea
1x oboro, palace in the clouds
1x gemstone caverns
1x mystic gate
I disagree with this. The reason that Thing in the Ice from the sideboard helps in many of our bad matchups is that it can win the game substantially faster (just 2 or 3 attacks!) than things like Snapcaster, Jace, Elixir, or Faerie Conclave. The amount of "time off" you take to cast TitI is the same as Howling Mine, so it really shouldn't set our game plan back by much.
In many of the situations that you described, I think it's either unrealstic for the opponent to have those cards in a postboard game, or TitI is actually still doing much more than you give it credit for. Against Merfolk, I doubt they keep in Snag and Dismember against us, and you can potentially play around Harbinger by not attacking until you can Gigadrowse (to get rid of blockers and cut them off Harbinger mana) then warp twice (for lethal). Against Burn's block + bolt, your two mana spell just bought you 5+ life. Against Elves, if you couldn't win before flipping TitI, that game was probably unwinnable with any non-Hibernation card anyway. If you do flip TitI, you've just set your opponent so far back that you should extremely favored to win. Against Bant spirits, Path means you just cast a bad Rampant Growth that makes the opponent discard a card, and the EtBs are rarely relevant enough to really care about.
That said, I don't think you need 4 TitI. I'm still running 2 (see bottom of post for list).
I think that dropping TitI is a mistake. As I said above, it has been really good for me in some our bad matchups, even when the opponent can kill it. It's a key for enabling fast kills that are important against decks like Burn, Merfolk, and Elves. I see the incidental plus against Surgical Extraction effects as just an incidental positive, not a primary reason to keep it.
I've been running no graveyard hate in the sideboard and had no problems yet. I think that our Dredge matchup is generally winnable enough between Gigadrowses, Exhuastions, Cryptic Commands, and Dredge just not having the nuts very often. That said, if you're expecting to face a substantial amount of Dredge, then it seems reasonable to keep it.
I'm also unsure of Negate and Runed Halo. When do you bring those in?
My current list for reference:
3x Howling Mine
4x Dictate of Kruphix
Time Walks
4x Time Warp
3x Temporal Mastery
3x Part the Waterveil
Other Spells
4x Serum Visions
4x Gigadrowse
3x Fatal Push
1x Snapback
2x Snapcaster Mage
3x Exhaustion
2x Cryptic Command
1x Commandeer
4x Blue fetchland
8x Island
1x Snow-Covered Island
1x Watery Grave
2x Sunken Hollow
3x Drowned Catacomb
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2x Gemstone Cavern
2x Thoughtseize
3x Collective Brutality
3x Chalice of the Void
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Commandeer
2x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Thing in the Ice
I didn't test Inquisition, but so far neither the 2 life nor the 3 cmc restriction would have made much of a difference in the games I played. I still think that Inquisition would be better in more situations that Thoughtseize, but honestly I just haven't gotten around to replacing them yet.
The second Gemstone Caverns has been pretty good for me so far. Starting with one in the opener is very big game, and it's been very rare that I've drawn two Gemstone Caverns at a point in the game where the legend rule mattered. Inkmoth has just not been doing much for me recently.
In general I think the splashes with this deck should be small, because the blue core of the deck is quite strong. If you're running cards like Commandeer or Snapback, having the critical mass of blue cards is another really important reason to not go overboard with a splash. With that mindset, the deck is nearly mono-blue with just a few cards that really help in the otherwise poor matchups.
It is card disadvantage, but often it's worth it. Usually I pitch a Temporal Mastery or Part the Waterveil that I was many turns away from casting plus one blue card that I marginally care about. Commander then lets you do something like counter the opponent's counterspell for free, change the target of an Abrupt Decay from Mine to Tarmogoyf, change the target of Rift Bolt to Goblin Guide, or take a planeswalker (turn 3 Karn is a fun one). These kinds of things are worth the card disadvantage, just as there are many situations that are worth the card disadvantage of Force of Will in Legacy.
One of the fantastic reasons to play this deck!
All good questions.
Timely is solid, no complaints from me. I'm experimenting with the sideboard a bit to feel out the tricky matchups. I haven't yet got a solid feel for how often I can get double white early in the game, so it's definitely a tricky one. I do know that I've been able to consistently hit the double white by the time I need supreme verdict.
Commandeer has been great although it does have its bad matchups. Sometimes it's a free way to disrupt a combo or save you from a Karn or whatever. Other times it's a counterspell. Generally you tend to be using it once you've got a mine on the field, so pitching cards to it isn't such a big deal (you'll have plenty to choose from). Also thankfully the deck has quite a bit of redundancy so pitching stuff doesn't really take away from your overall wincon. Just be mindful not to cut yourself off a potential winning line by pitching something you need.
In fairness, oboro could quite easily be another island. I haven't seen choke or boil seeing any legitimate play in over a year (the cards still exist but I'd wager they aren't currently the go-to options for hosing blue decks).
Bearing in mind CoCo decks are the third most played deck in paper according to the recent metagame breakdown, I'm keeping inkmoth in the deck. Sometimes it shortens your clock and gives you an evasive threat. Other times it beats the infinite life that you still see fairly often in top-tier strategies. Over 15 rounds of modern play I'd expect to see coco at least once.
Rest in peace is kind of necessary. It switches off enough decks and also extraction effects that it's worth it as a singleton. In fairness, ghostly prison (a card that's flitted in and out of my sideboard) could potentially be better? Hoses dredge, elves, merfolk, etc while playing very well with your gigadrowse and exhaustion plan.
Go with what you think is best. The maindeck seems pretty good although in some matchups I do miss remand a lot.
And also I'm with you guys on TiTi and I'll be keeping it in the 75. It's won me so many games in the past I've felt like the deck is missing something without it in terms of speed and beating stuff like affinity.
Good luck, we might bump into each other if you're going to GP Birmingham. Me and a couple of friends are going as a gang.
Pack Redirect just in case lol - It's great against discard, Cryptic, Time Warp, and counters. I'm personally looking into Gemstone Caverns and other acceleration so I can get a turn ahead and pull off dopey cards like Boomerang and Recirect.
The black splash has been best for me in matchups where Fatal Push is great, which happen to be some of the worse matchups for mono blue (Burn, Elves, Merfolk, Affinity, Zoo). If you're not expecting to run into much of those kinds of matchups, then mono blue is probably better.
I've played the mirror match once, and my opponent won in part thanks to having more Commandeers than I did. Counterspells are generally bad because of Gigadrowse, so the match was about hitting land drops, getting the Gigadrowse in, and comboing off, hopefully using your opponent's Mine effects. It's a pretty interesting matchup in terms of timing when to use Mine effects pre-board and figuring out what in the world you should do post-board.
Most of them tend to run 3 Chalice of the Void out of the side, is that 100% necessary? Is there something else you would put in its place that also could work? I don't own any and I have friends who do, but I would prefer to not be borrowing cards from them all of the time.
I'm more interested in the UW list than the mono blue or UB version, Since having access to the White Leyline or Runed Halo seems very good in my meta which has a lot of discard/targetted kills with titanshift style decks.
If you all could give me any pointers, that would be awesome. Thank you!
FULL TIME FAERIES
Slowing them down (any way possible) is often enough to give us that little edge that we need to buy enough time go to combotown.
Uw Taking Turns
The Bad Moon
Small Mardu Midrange
Big Mardu Midrange
Grixis Waste Not Combo
Bw 8-Rack
Bw Midrange
Woah woah woah...So they have to discard two...and you get to draw THREE??? Ugh, that's such a sneaky play. Okay maybe I do like Commandeer. Now just need to decide if 1-2 is best. Are there any decks it's awful against?
It is bad (less than awesome) against a few creature heavy decks (like elves) but quite relevent against burn. Note than Eidolon is an enchantment and can be the new legal target for destructive revelry
Uw Taking Turns
The Bad Moon
Small Mardu Midrange
Big Mardu Midrange
Grixis Waste Not Combo
Bw 8-Rack
Bw Midrange
Instead of scrubbing just short of prizes (I'm sure I'd do OK, just not too hopeful of making a decent return) I'm going to destroy the prize wall like previous years and leave with approx £300 of boosters and promos.
Took the line of most value.
Don't let my decision sway you in any way, I just took the line that was best for me personally. I'm a good player (I'd say my performances at events puts me in the top chunk of players generally) but lately I've had a lot of job & family stuff to contend with, so my regular practice and fnm attendance has gone out the window. Simply put, I predict (and I'm being honest with myself) that I'm not at the top of my game in terms of practice and technical play and would make a few stupid punts which I might regret. Last year around this time, I was top of my game. Maybe a month from now I will be again. Right now I need to manage my own expectations and just have fun (and get some great practice) while winning prize wall tickets.
Bear in mind we don't often get a modern GP! So if it's something you have been looking forward to, go and enjoy it! Bark bark, be a shark.
Also I'm going with friends and honestly I'd quite like the ability to socialise between smaller events rather than grind all weekend without any real break. Call me a filthy casual, I'm fine with that, but I work hard & need a break :).
Also also; I have a booster collection (for chaos drafting!) and would like the opportunity to add to it. For the last couple of years the biggest additions have come from prize wall winnings at GPs.
Like I said, please don't let my decision affect your confidence in any way. I made this very personal choice for me, because of my current life situation, where I can recognise that despite being a good player, I've got a bit rusty on my technical play recently. If the main event is something you've been testing for and building up to, go and crush it my friend and I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines.
Magic is about fun, but it's also about community and a bunch of people supporting each other. I'm gonna be "that guy" now and say: Dude, do what you want to do, and kick ass while doing it. I'll be there at the event, doing my thing as well. We'll all have a great time and laugh about it in the coming weeks/months.
Definitely don't make a choice you might regret. I have no regrets making the call to swap my main event registration for side events because I knew it would make me happier and give me a more fun weekend with my mates. That's just me; you will have a different set of circumstances and you've got to do what's best for you. If that's giving the main event a fair crack of the whip and "testing your mettle" then get pumped and do it like a champ.
I mean the sheer fact that you're considering playing turns, of all things, shows me that you take pride in your deck-choice, your style and want to succeed with your own personal statement. That's something to celebrate.
Anyway mini-rant-slash-pep-talk over. I'm still gonna be getting my competitive kicks this weekend and I'm hoping to utterly destroy the prize wall. Don't worry about me
i'll try =)
Two more events tomorrow! Might play a different deck, something nuts. Who knows
How would you feel about including several copies of Swan Song in your 75? I've used it with great effect against Infect. I also haven't had a chance to play Nimble Obstructionist against Tron but it seems quite effective against all of the cards that gave you trouble in that matchup. I also mainboard 2x copies of Redirect as a hedge against combo and aggro decks that use mana dorks and burn//buff spells.
I think you may have convinced me of the white splash. Leyline and Verdict seems STRONG for this particular meta. Leyline being more...timeless....*puns are fun