If I wasn't running 4 Gemstone Caverns I'd run 4 Cavern of Souls as you suggest. It might also enable me to run a single copy of World Breaker which I really wish I could run in my list. Let us know how it goes.
I've been trying out Mockery of Nature as a non-green list substitute for World Breaker and it isn't even close. In my list it may be a +1 SB at best. I'm also going to try out Lashweed Lurker in that slot as the "poor mans" World Breaker as well. It may get that +1 SB slot. I find it interesting that I could also put an Ulamog, Thought Knot or new Emrakul back on the top of the library to get another cast trigger if needed. Will do some testing.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Proceeded to go 2-0,2-1,2-1. The first game was against a mono-blue control deck (brew) - apparently bad draws on his part but his opening hands were extremely high CMC so I was able to tear apart his hand with TKS and fast mana. Beat-down with the core crew (Mimic, Reshaper, TKS, Reality Smasher) before he could get anything going both games. Second game was against a B/W Lifelink/Flyers deck. I lost a game due to not reading a card and getting beatdown by a 6/5 Flyer Lifelinker but the other games went fairly well. First game with natural tron; big mimics and reality smashers while the third game I was able to cast both of my titans to seal out of the game (one drawn, one Conduit of Ruin). My last game was against Eldrazi & Taxes which was extremely close.
The first game was pretty much a blowout - kept a one lander with Eldrazi Temple + removal. Got my removal stolen and then got ghost quartered with arbiter out AKA stuck on one land and proceeded to concede. Second game, two tron + map into the aggro plan. Drew into natural tron anyways and proceeded to close out the game by dropping 3 TKS, All Is Dust, and a Smasher. Last game was extremely grindy (ended up at 2-3 life and took him down from 16 life). I was able to stabilize at the end of the game due to drawing higher value cards each turn when we were hellbent. He was trying to keep me off of fast mana and the two basic wastes were life-savers in this matchup with Path to Exile + Ghost Quarter. Played a 4th and got blown out by his good curve while mine was too high. Certainly a matchup that could go either way.
My sideboard method is usually based if a game will go long or short. If I know my opponents deck is a very low curve deck then I usually forgo a lot of the top end and try to play lower to the ground, on the flipside if I don't think I can win with mimic then they are the first to go with Endless Ones being the flex creature that gets removed. I almost never remove the core creatures (Reshaper, TKS, Reality Smasher) and usually find myself looking for Ratchet Bombs.
As for changes I would like to make to the deck or test. I would like to try Basilisk Collar in the mainboard for the ability to lifelink with our creatures, new Eldrazi in the 7-9 flex spot (Deceiver of Form is there currently), and switching out of the Conduit of Ruinx2/DoF for 3 Endbringers. When I have some time this week I'll be testing Distended Mindbender in the flex spot - it has synergy with the Urborg I already run and it is basically a guaranteed 1 for 1 with its discard ability (or better). It is disappointing that Emerge wasn't an instant ability allowing us to dodge removal with the sacrifice...or the fact that all of the new Eldrazi are very overcosted for the stat-line. Interesting enough; it may be a good way to get value out of a Matter Reshaper that was previous cast. Sacrificing Reshaper for Distended Mindbender give us a cost of 2BB.
Edit: If we sacrifice TKS to Distended Mindbender, we get to put the draw a card before the discard trigger right?
As for changes I would like to make to the deck or test. I would like to try Basilisk Collar in the mainboard for the ability to lifelink with our creatures, new Eldrazi in the 7-9 flex spot (Deceiver of Form is there currently), and switching out of the Conduit of Ruinx2/DoF for 3 Endbringers. When I have some time this week I'll be testing Distended Mindbender in the flex spot - it has synergy with the Urborg I already run and it is basically a guaranteed 1 for 1 with its discard ability (or better). It is disappointing that Emerge wasn't an instant ability allowing us to dodge removal with the sacrifice...or the fact that all of the new Eldrazi are very overcosted for the stat-line. Interesting enough; it may be a good way to get value out of a Matter Reshaper that was previous cast. Sacrificing Reshaper for Distended Mindbender give us a cost of 2BB.
Edit: If we sacrifice TKS to Distended Mindbender, we get to put the draw a card before the discard trigger right?
To answer your last question, I will say I think so, but am no Judge. You sac TKS and pay mana for the Emerge cost, TKS says when it "leaves the battlefield" opponent draws a card, then when you cast DM the cast trigger goes off.
For the 7-2 list. Glad it finished well but I'm not sure why it has Spellskite MB in there. The only creatures it could save from a Bolt are Matter Reshaper and you WANT to see it die to get another card. You pay the 2 life to redirect a bolt from you and you drop 2 instead of 3 life so that is not good either. I guess it is for Paths, Terminates and Dismembers.
I like DM in that flex spot of yours with Urborgs. I think I may just go with a range of 3 or 4 of the new Emerge Eldrazi in my SB for certain match ups. I've got a lot of them on order for some paper testing. And thanks for sharing too.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
And another good finish. Really thinking about picking up the deck, looks fun. But how does the deck play compared to regular Tron? As in, how are openers kept now that you don't have stirrings or sylvan scrying, etc...
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Modern
Affinity
UW Control
Commander
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Dragonlord Ojutai
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
The Ur-Dragon
My opening hand preferences will be a little different than the 2 decks listed above. So my comment may be off base a little.
In general I think you look for at least 2 lands, preferably 2 Tron pieces, 2 Temples or at worst one of each. A map in hand is always nice. Removal in hand is always good early game it seems. It really runs from hand to hand (and card draw to card draw) what line you need to follow. Its not set in stone like RG Tron is. I'll let some of the others comment, as again I'm running acceleration and looking for different cards in my opening hand over the more mid/late game list. Glad to see you want to pick it up. Good luck and let us know your thoughts/results.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'm thinking about giving it a test in my Matter Reshaper slot. It also has a little synergy with my Gemstone Caverns as well. I've never gotten a lot of mileage out of Matter Reshaper before. I may give it some play testing.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'm thinking about giving it a test in my Matter Reshaper slot. It also has a little synergy with my Gemstone Caverns as well. I've never gotten a lot of mileage out of Matter Reshaper before. I may give it some play testing.
I think Eternal Scourge isn't bad in decks with no other synergy with it, but then Relic of Progenitus is good at making it really resilient late-game...then again, I think Eternal Scourge is even better in decks that can cheat 4 of them into your "hand" with Selective Memory or Memoricide (I've found that them as 2-ofs is good in Bant Eldrazi and Jund, respectively).
Got some games in tonight at my usual Tues night LGS. First note is I definitely need more practice, missed Sanctum trigger twice, second time cost me the match, lesson learned. Secondly, Emrakul, the Promised End is a house, won every game I played her and cast her twice for 10 and once for 9. Am now considering moving Kozilek to the side and going with a 3rd Dismember, a second Karn, 4th Endbringer or maybe something else. Another card I liked tonight in the main was All is Dust. After playing a bunch of fast aggro decks recently the need for a catch all main board sweeper was a necessity. I think would prefer O-Stone but alas they're something I need to hunt down. Also, still working on my side board strategy. All in all I am really enjoying playing the deck, it's just one of those decks that rewards reps and can have a bit of a learning process.
The deck sure is fun as you say Flip. Pulled off the Turn One Thought-Knot Seer recently and a Turn Two Reality Smasher as well. New Emrakul has been hit and miss for me. I always want to Conduit for Ulamog over new Emmy. One big exception is versus Affinity though. Its fun to sac all their artifacts to a Arcbound Ravager and then to itself if they don't sac it on their turn. Free board wipe!
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
And another good finish. Really thinking about picking up the deck, looks fun. But how does the deck play compared to regular Tron? As in, how are openers kept now that you don't have stirrings or sylvan scrying, etc...
It depends on the version of the deck that you are playing. If you are going with a full set of Endbringers/Chalices, your goal is to play highly efficient creatures while controlling your opponent with chalice/removal/and board clears. The ability to close out the game usually comes down to your 5/5s (Reality Smasher/Endbringer) while the Titans are a bonus if you hit fast tron.
The other version is more aggressive using Mimics/Endless Ones and mana acceleration to speed up the game. Close to the ideal play is something like this;
T1: Mimic, T2: TKS (Swing for 4), T3: Reality Smasher (Swing for 14) - Basically dead if they run shocks/fetches. If not you have basically swung with only 4/4,5/5 stat-line early in the game which most people can't effectively block without making bad trades (additional the TKS rips a card from your hand which they aren't getting back anytime soon). It has its own weakness of being less consistent and lighting bolts/path to exile still slows it down. Beyond that your core creature base is fantastic (Reshapers/TKS/Reality Smasher); I usually save Endless Ones to become at least a 4/4 or higher (ideally using them for Sanctum Triggers as 7/7 or silly games where I make 11/11 from them).
My ideal opening is at least 3 mana (temple/other land) or two ursa plus map. I'll keep 3 normal lands (urza without map/utility lands) if the rest of the hand has a way to stall out the game until I draw into something (Removal, Reshaper, Mimic, etc). The best/worst part of the deck is the opening hands since we depend on certain lands and have a high average CMC. There is ways to make this better (green splash) but I think running chalice of the void helps a lot to slow down other decks. I haven't decided if I want to buy a play-set at the current prices.
I usually save Endless Ones to become at least a 4/4 or higher (ideally using them for Sanctum Triggers as 7/7
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Endless One cmc is ZERO since its value is X. Maybe I'm missing something.
I like the rest of your analysis though, thanks.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
202.3b When calculating the converted mana cost of an object with {X} in its mana cost, X is treated as 0 while the object is not on the stack, and X is treated as the number chosen for it while the object is on the stack.
Endless Ones (X>=7), Titans, All is Dust, Deceiver of Form are all Sanctum of Ugin enablers in my deck for example. Super useful for fetching a titan if I have Tron or Reality Smasher if I am mana limited.
Any of the new Emerge Eldrazi interest you (other than Distended Mindbender) as another S of U trigger?
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I wonder if it isn't time to move Eldrazi Tron to the Developing Competitive section? The deck has some success lately and is being played by an increased number of players.
Well I plan on putting back on peoples radar at the SCG INV Jersey in a couple weeks
I agree it should as well.
One problem may be that we don't have a dedicated Primer thread. I'd have to put some time and effort into it myself, although there was some talk about it a few months ago. If someone wants to work up a detailed Primer thread with at least the 2 styles of builds and maybe the G splash version (which doesn't pop up a lot) I think it would help.
And best of luck Flip, we will be rooting for you.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
well, I'm not doing a whole lot right now as I just had surgery on my thumb 2 weeks ago and have another month of rehab. I will try and work something up next week after I pour over the comments, especially for the Mono Green version. The Bant versions is still in the same vein of trying to ramp up fast but leans more on controlling the board with Displacer's and Drowner's, so lemme know if I should try and include them or are they their own archetype?
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Current Decks Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BWGUB Sultai Constrictor BUG Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG Modern : GB Golgari Elves BGGR Atarka Goblins RG Pauper : W Heroic WGB Delve BG
so lemme know if I should try and include them or are they their own archetype?
They are a little different and I believe they may already have their own thread as well. I'd leave them out personally, nothing against them.
@rps1224: Thanks for the link, I will check it out.
Update: Checked out his first match vs. Jund. His list is too slow for my taste but I understand what he is running. It showed its slowness as it went 1-2 for the loss vs. Jund. Never saw a titan in any of those 3 games either as he has NO way to tutor them up with either Sanctum of Ugin or Conduit of Ruin. Waiting to topdeck them isn't a good strategy. For comparisons sake I played 5 games vs. Jund yesterday (in paper) and went 3-2 with my list. Had Ulamog out in 3 of those games, all tutored with Conduit including a Turn 3 Conduit into Turn 4 Ulamog. Won those 3 games NOT coincidentally. Looking forward to seeing some more match ups, will check them out later.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
@HydrogenOutlet when I do the primer next week I will try and do a full SB tech as well. The SB is still a learning step for me but I am figuring it out the more I play it.
@WarMachinePrime just looked and yes Bant Eldrazi has their own forum in developing competitive, so I will leave them out and focus primarily on the Mono G and Mono B/Colorless builds.
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Current Decks Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BWGUB Sultai Constrictor BUG Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG Modern : GB Golgari Elves BGGR Atarka Goblins RG Pauper : W Heroic WGB Delve BG
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I've been trying out Mockery of Nature as a non-green list substitute for World Breaker and it isn't even close. In my list it may be a +1 SB at best. I'm also going to try out Lashweed Lurker in that slot as the "poor mans" World Breaker as well. It may get that +1 SB slot. I find it interesting that I could also put an Ulamog, Thought Knot or new Emrakul back on the top of the library to get another cast trigger if needed. Will do some testing.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Conduit of Ruin
1 Deceiver of Form
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Lands
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Wastes
4 Expedition Map
3 Dismember
3 Spatial Contortion
1 All Is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Warping Wail
1 All Is Dust
2 Gut Shot
3 Pithing Needle
3 Relic of Progenitus
Proceeded to go 2-0,2-1,2-1. The first game was against a mono-blue control deck (brew) - apparently bad draws on his part but his opening hands were extremely high CMC so I was able to tear apart his hand with TKS and fast mana. Beat-down with the core crew (Mimic, Reshaper, TKS, Reality Smasher) before he could get anything going both games. Second game was against a B/W Lifelink/Flyers deck. I lost a game due to not reading a card and getting beatdown by a 6/5 Flyer Lifelinker but the other games went fairly well. First game with natural tron; big mimics and reality smashers while the third game I was able to cast both of my titans to seal out of the game (one drawn, one Conduit of Ruin). My last game was against Eldrazi & Taxes which was extremely close.
The first game was pretty much a blowout - kept a one lander with Eldrazi Temple + removal. Got my removal stolen and then got ghost quartered with arbiter out AKA stuck on one land and proceeded to concede. Second game, two tron + map into the aggro plan. Drew into natural tron anyways and proceeded to close out the game by dropping 3 TKS, All Is Dust, and a Smasher. Last game was extremely grindy (ended up at 2-3 life and took him down from 16 life). I was able to stabilize at the end of the game due to drawing higher value cards each turn when we were hellbent. He was trying to keep me off of fast mana and the two basic wastes were life-savers in this matchup with Path to Exile + Ghost Quarter. Played a 4th and got blown out by his good curve while mine was too high. Certainly a matchup that could go either way.
My sideboard method is usually based if a game will go long or short. If I know my opponents deck is a very low curve deck then I usually forgo a lot of the top end and try to play lower to the ground, on the flipside if I don't think I can win with mimic then they are the first to go with Endless Ones being the flex creature that gets removed. I almost never remove the core creatures (Reshaper, TKS, Reality Smasher) and usually find myself looking for Ratchet Bombs.
As for changes I would like to make to the deck or test. I would like to try Basilisk Collar in the mainboard for the ability to lifelink with our creatures, new Eldrazi in the 7-9 flex spot (Deceiver of Form is there currently), and switching out of the Conduit of Ruinx2/DoF for 3 Endbringers. When I have some time this week I'll be testing Distended Mindbender in the flex spot - it has synergy with the Urborg I already run and it is basically a guaranteed 1 for 1 with its discard ability (or better). It is disappointing that Emerge wasn't an instant ability allowing us to dodge removal with the sacrifice...or the fact that all of the new Eldrazi are very overcosted for the stat-line. Interesting enough; it may be a good way to get value out of a Matter Reshaper that was previous cast. Sacrificing Reshaper for Distended Mindbender give us a cost of 2BB.
Edit: If we sacrifice TKS to Distended Mindbender, we get to put the draw a card before the discard trigger right?
Double Edit:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/449018#paper
7-2 Finish.
Notable additions/modifications:
- Spellskite (MB)
- Playset of Endbringer (MB)
- 3 Titans
- Batterskull (MB) x2
- Warping Wail (MB) instead of Spatial
To answer your last question, I will say I think so, but am no Judge. You sac TKS and pay mana for the Emerge cost, TKS says when it "leaves the battlefield" opponent draws a card, then when you cast DM the cast trigger goes off.
For the 7-2 list. Glad it finished well but I'm not sure why it has Spellskite MB in there. The only creatures it could save from a Bolt are Matter Reshaper and you WANT to see it die to get another card. You pay the 2 life to redirect a bolt from you and you drop 2 instead of 3 life so that is not good either. I guess it is for Paths, Terminates and Dismembers.
I like DM in that flex spot of yours with Urborgs. I think I may just go with a range of 3 or 4 of the new Emerge Eldrazi in my SB for certain match ups. I've got a lot of them on order for some paper testing. And thanks for sharing too.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
And another good finish. Really thinking about picking up the deck, looks fun. But how does the deck play compared to regular Tron? As in, how are openers kept now that you don't have stirrings or sylvan scrying, etc...
Affinity
UW Control
Commander
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Dragonlord Ojutai
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
The Ur-Dragon
In general I think you look for at least 2 lands, preferably 2 Tron pieces, 2 Temples or at worst one of each. A map in hand is always nice. Removal in hand is always good early game it seems. It really runs from hand to hand (and card draw to card draw) what line you need to follow. Its not set in stone like RG Tron is. I'll let some of the others comment, as again I'm running acceleration and looking for different cards in my opening hand over the more mid/late game list. Glad to see you want to pick it up. Good luck and let us know your thoughts/results.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'm thinking about giving it a test in my Matter Reshaper slot. It also has a little synergy with my Gemstone Caverns as well. I've never gotten a lot of mileage out of Matter Reshaper before. I may give it some play testing.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I think Eternal Scourge isn't bad in decks with no other synergy with it, but then Relic of Progenitus is good at making it really resilient late-game...then again, I think Eternal Scourge is even better in decks that can cheat 4 of them into your "hand" with Selective Memory or Memoricide (I've found that them as 2-ofs is good in Bant Eldrazi and Jund, respectively).
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/33348_Eldrazi-In-The-New-Modern.html
The deck sure is fun as you say Flip. Pulled off the Turn One Thought-Knot Seer recently and a Turn Two Reality Smasher as well. New Emrakul has been hit and miss for me. I always want to Conduit for Ulamog over new Emmy. One big exception is versus Affinity though. Its fun to sac all their artifacts to a Arcbound Ravager and then to itself if they don't sac it on their turn. Free board wipe!
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It depends on the version of the deck that you are playing. If you are going with a full set of Endbringers/Chalices, your goal is to play highly efficient creatures while controlling your opponent with chalice/removal/and board clears. The ability to close out the game usually comes down to your 5/5s (Reality Smasher/Endbringer) while the Titans are a bonus if you hit fast tron.
The other version is more aggressive using Mimics/Endless Ones and mana acceleration to speed up the game. Close to the ideal play is something like this;
T1: Mimic, T2: TKS (Swing for 4), T3: Reality Smasher (Swing for 14) - Basically dead if they run shocks/fetches. If not you have basically swung with only 4/4,5/5 stat-line early in the game which most people can't effectively block without making bad trades (additional the TKS rips a card from your hand which they aren't getting back anytime soon). It has its own weakness of being less consistent and lighting bolts/path to exile still slows it down. Beyond that your core creature base is fantastic (Reshapers/TKS/Reality Smasher); I usually save Endless Ones to become at least a 4/4 or higher (ideally using them for Sanctum Triggers as 7/7 or silly games where I make 11/11 from them).
My ideal opening is at least 3 mana (temple/other land) or two ursa plus map. I'll keep 3 normal lands (urza without map/utility lands) if the rest of the hand has a way to stall out the game until I draw into something (Removal, Reshaper, Mimic, etc). The best/worst part of the deck is the opening hands since we depend on certain lands and have a high average CMC. There is ways to make this better (green splash) but I think running chalice of the void helps a lot to slow down other decks. I haven't decided if I want to buy a play-set at the current prices.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Endless One cmc is ZERO since its value is X. Maybe I'm missing something.
I like the rest of your analysis though, thanks.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The CMC of Endless One when it is on the stack is the X mana cost you have paid for it. Otherwise (battlefield, graveyard, hand) it is zero. https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/40yd72/cmc_question_on_kozileks_return_and_endless_one/
202.3b When calculating the converted mana cost of an object with {X} in its mana cost, X is treated as 0 while the object is not on the stack, and X is treated as the number chosen for it while the object is on the stack.
Endless Ones (X>=7), Titans, All is Dust, Deceiver of Form are all Sanctum of Ugin enablers in my deck for example. Super useful for fetching a titan if I have Tron or Reality Smasher if I am mana limited.
Any of the new Emerge Eldrazi interest you (other than Distended Mindbender) as another S of U trigger?
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Sanctum of Ugin
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
2x Wastes
Planeswalker (3)
1x Karn Liberated
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifact (4)
4x Expedition Map
2x Emrakul, the Promised End
3x Endbringer
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Instant (8)
3x Dismember
3x Spatial Contortion
2x Warping Wail
Sorcery (2)
2x All Is Dust
1x Basilisk Collar
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Warping Wail
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
I agree it should as well.
One problem may be that we don't have a dedicated Primer thread. I'd have to put some time and effort into it myself, although there was some talk about it a few months ago. If someone wants to work up a detailed Primer thread with at least the 2 styles of builds and maybe the G splash version (which doesn't pop up a lot) I think it would help.
And best of luck Flip, we will be rooting for you.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Here's the link.
https://www.twitch.tv/toddstevensmtg
They are a little different and I believe they may already have their own thread as well. I'd leave them out personally, nothing against them.
@rps1224: Thanks for the link, I will check it out.
Update: Checked out his first match vs. Jund. His list is too slow for my taste but I understand what he is running. It showed its slowness as it went 1-2 for the loss vs. Jund. Never saw a titan in any of those 3 games either as he has NO way to tutor them up with either Sanctum of Ugin or Conduit of Ruin. Waiting to topdeck them isn't a good strategy. For comparisons sake I played 5 games vs. Jund yesterday (in paper) and went 3-2 with my list. Had Ulamog out in 3 of those games, all tutored with Conduit including a Turn 3 Conduit into Turn 4 Ulamog. Won those 3 games NOT coincidentally. Looking forward to seeing some more match ups, will check them out later.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
@WarMachinePrime just looked and yes Bant Eldrazi has their own forum in developing competitive, so I will leave them out and focus primarily on the Mono G and Mono B/Colorless builds.
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG