the abbots work well. sometimes you do flip a counter, which sucks, but they excel in games where you need to either be grindy or aggressive (card advantage+prowess on a decent body). I board them out in games where you need to play the control game (in this tournament that was affinity and would have been bogles), but overall I'm quite happy with them. I wouldn't recommend putting more than two in because you almost never want multiples, but we do have serum visions to set it up (a common line of play is something like t1 delver, t2 visions+counter/removal/tapped land, t3 abbot flip cantrip/bolt/land)
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
Ok I've been playing the grixis delver for a few months and have been doing well usually end up 3-1, 3-2 at FNM tonight I went 2-2.... My question to you guys is what are you using against Lantern of Insight lock down deck? Basically what options do we have against ensnaring bridge codex shredder, etc. if they get you on top deck mode, they mill away your next draw, etc. I unfortunately only had Kolgahns command to answer artifacts and that is not enough.
This looks like a cool idea. I'm not keen on giving up on my Anglers and Tasigurs but the thing I've always liked about Delver over Control was our early game and failing to flip delver can hurt, I definitely want to try out Bloodsoaked Champion.
After more testing I'll probably cut him. The recursion is too conditional, and most people know how to play around it. I feel like that slot is better suited for Goblin Guide or Monastery Swiftspear, though I may try the aforementioned Death's Shadow.
If I'm not actively filling my graveyard with cards like Thought Scour, Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Gurmag Angler feel more like mid-to-late game beaters for a control plan. I want to go more to the aggro side of things, and rely less on my graveyard.
@Hollenfeuer If you're looking for a more aggressive build, might I suggest Young Pyromancer. Swiftspear is great too. I would not advise main decking Death's Shadow. It is very dead against much of the field.
This is what i also feel about the deck. It falls in the midrange strategy most of the time if we don't have an early flipped delver or if Tasigur dies to a quick removal. Our cards though are not in the same power level of true midrange decks and we don't have the inevitability of control or combo decks. Most of my wins are through snap beats and flashbacks late game.
No way, this deck, out of all decks, can easily survive one landers. With 10-12 can trips, i absolutely keep one land hands, especially on the draw, if there is a can trip or two. I wouldnt call this deck a gold fish deck, but you need to be aggressive and can get there with 2-3 lands, sometimes.
Now, would i keep a one lander with no can trips? It just all depends, but those i'm more likely to mull.
Does anyone consider playing Bump in the Night? I have no idea if it fit in the deck, but when i think about it, it seems to be an option. But i'm not used to play this deck, so i'd like to have your opinion.
I played bump in the night in a much more aggressively oriented version of the build (for instance, no snapcasters), but it has no place in the tempo version of the deck. However, playing Grixis zoo is viable if you want to go down that route.
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It depends on your other draws. I may keep a one-lander with this deck if i have a couple of cantrips and an early threat since we can operate with at least 3 lands. Otherwise, mull.
I tried it with lava spikes and bumps. It fel gave up counters for it. It felt too slow for what it was trying to accompish. It felt like a gimped version of burn. I might try it again though. I don't know about cutting snapcaster but these days I wish I saw him less sometimes. Maybe swiftspear?
No way, this deck, out of all decks, can easily survive one landers. With 10-12 can trips, i absolutely keep one land hands, especially on the draw, if there is a can trip or two. I wouldnt call this deck a gold fish deck, but you need to be aggressive and can get there with 2-3 lands, sometimes.
Now, would i keep a one lander with no can trips? It just all depends, but those i'm more likely to mull.
I love keeping one landers. If I have a blue source + delver or visions I almost always keep.I've won plenty of games on just one or two lands.
my exact creature base I believe was:
3 swiftspear (serious consideration about going up to 4, we run out of gas much less easily with all the cantrips than straight burn/zoo does)
1 pyromancer (yes, its burn but screw it he gets you free wins sometimes)
2 abbot (also a consideration to increase but the low land count restricts this a bit)
2 tasigur
1 angler
4 delver
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
I like the creature based of this more agrresive version. We lose midrange and late game though without Snap as it provides tremendous utility as the deck is very good at closing games via burn recursions.
I feel like some number of snaps should be included with an aggressive version, even if it's only 1 or 2. Kommand can always bring them back if you need them and bolt/bump/spike/forked>snap>/bolt/bump/spike/forked is always a good play. I feel like this discussion is exactly what led to Grixis Control being a thing. They can run very few creatures or a lot. We always have to keep the count low to flip delver which limits our creature package but has the 50/50 chance of increasing our early game.
Without those cards, and the addition of Lava Spike, it will now be like playing Grixis Burn fueled with cantrips and some countermagic. It will act more as an Aggro-Tempo deck. Interesting.
What is your opinion on the new merfolk that got spoiled? You think we could change the list a bit so we can play it? Or is it crappy cos it us not guaranteed that we play 2 cards a turn?
You would need to cut a creature to keep the instant/sorcery count high enough for delver. The package of 14 creatures is already pretty tight:
4 delver
4 snap
4-5 delver creatures (tasigur/gurmag)
1-2 flex (pyromancer/clique etc)
This isn't even taking into consideration if the card is good in the deck or not (imo, I don't think its good)
Yeah, I don't think stretching to playing 2 spells a turn is what we want to be doing. 1/3 our spells are cantrips, 1/3 counters, 1/3 utility & burn. Each card is very crucial to be played at the right time and are highly specific. I see the new merfolk fitting in better with more of a 'redundant' deck like Storm or something. I think the setup cost is too high for us.
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Homelands.
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Primers
4C Walkers
After more testing I'll probably cut him. The recursion is too conditional, and most people know how to play around it. I feel like that slot is better suited for Goblin Guide or Monastery Swiftspear, though I may try the aforementioned Death's Shadow.
If I'm not actively filling my graveyard with cards like Thought Scour, Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Gurmag Angler feel more like mid-to-late game beaters for a control plan. I want to go more to the aggro side of things, and rely less on my graveyard.
Unrrlatednquestion:
Does everyone auto-mulligan one land hands?
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
Cheers!
What Class Are You?
No way, this deck, out of all decks, can easily survive one landers. With 10-12 can trips, i absolutely keep one land hands, especially on the draw, if there is a can trip or two. I wouldnt call this deck a gold fish deck, but you need to be aggressive and can get there with 2-3 lands, sometimes.
Now, would i keep a one lander with no can trips? It just all depends, but those i'm more likely to mull.
I played bump in the night in a much more aggressively oriented version of the build (for instance, no snapcasters), but it has no place in the tempo version of the deck. However, playing Grixis zoo is viable if you want to go down that route.
Primers
4C Walkers
It depends on your other draws. I may keep a one-lander with this deck if i have a couple of cantrips and an early threat since we can operate with at least 3 lands. Otherwise, mull.
I love keeping one landers. If I have a blue source + delver or visions I almost always keep.I've won plenty of games on just one or two lands.
I'd be more inclined to mull 4 landers with this deck.
3 swiftspear (serious consideration about going up to 4, we run out of gas much less easily with all the cantrips than straight burn/zoo does)
1 pyromancer (yes, its burn but screw it he gets you free wins sometimes)
2 abbot (also a consideration to increase but the low land count restricts this a bit)
2 tasigur
1 angler
4 delver
Primers
4C Walkers
You would need to cut a creature to keep the instant/sorcery count high enough for delver. The package of 14 creatures is already pretty tight:
4 delver
4 snap
4-5 delver creatures (tasigur/gurmag)
1-2 flex (pyromancer/clique etc)
This isn't even taking into consideration if the card is good in the deck or not (imo, I don't think its good)