Grixis shadow should have a separate thread, as I came to this thread trying to find a deck with a good shadow matchup, not another shadow deck. just saying.
Well, as I've said I've seen Grixis Shadow listed as tier 2 as a separate entity on other sites so it would be great to have its own thread, but that requires someone creating a primer. Until then then I don't see the harm in discussing it here.
Well, as I've said I've seen Grixis Shadow listed as tier 2 as a separate entity on other sites so it would be great to have its own thread, but that requires someone creating a primer. Until then then I don't see the harm in discussing it here.
I find it amazing that Death's Shadow has really taken the meta by storm because Jund managed to do well with it. I personally will not make my Grixis deck into the new Death's Shadow deck with a minor splash of Delver. Grixis Delver is strong by itself and doesn't need to make the deck clunky with Death's Shadow and us wanting to get our life low for Burn to continue laughing at us and dominate the format even more now than usual. That is just my personal thoughts in regards to everyone thinking of going all for Death's Shadow variants because Jund did well with it.
In my opinion Grixis Shadow (with Street Wraith) is just better than Grixis Delver, there have been so many games where I played a turn 2 delve creature or Shadow and applied huge pressure while also controlling their hand and the board. Sure, Delver is a great deck and I've been playing it for such a long time, but the newest iteration with Death's Shadow is so strong, personally I win much more games with the Shadow variant.
About the burn matchup, actually I dont think its worse, for me its more or less the same, a Death Shadow can turn the game very fast.
The last two days I've been playing with 1 Godless Shrine and 1 Hallowed Fountain main und 3 Lingering Souls in the side, today the first bigger tournament and I'm still not sure if I shoud like it or not. The first match I lost because I couldnt fetch anymore as I had no red mana due to souls, another match I won just because of souls...
Death's Shadows aren't expensive right now so I'm not worried in picking up a playset of them and trying them out. Just have to see how the meta will stabilize. Modern right now is very turbulent where many decks are popping up and others are being pushed back.
Grixis Shadow actually does OK against burn, you have a bunch of early game fatties. Post board you have collective brutalities and a full set of denial backup. If burn wins its usually very close with a topdeck burn spell and you having a stubbs
hi guys. new to the deck, but experienced mtg player... but wanted to ear some tips about the bant eldrazi matchup. some maindeck tweeks and sb tech. I will try to play the deck for the time beeing
thanks
It's not a great MU, but there are a few things you can do to make it better. Mainboard, having more Terminates helps quite a bit with their big threats. I find that Mana Leak tends to be pretty good against them as well (unless they get Cavern of Souls online). Bolt any mana dorks you can and try to land a delve threat to stone wall a lot of their creatures. Have some sort of land destruction or disruption to deal with Temples or any other problematic lands. I prefer Fulminator Mage, but Blood Moon, Molten Rain, and even Spreading Seas can work against them too. Eldrazi can have some explosive starts then peter out, so just try to survive and disrupt the first 4 turns is my strategy.
What do people think about Liliana in Delver or Shadow variants? I've been trying out the Last Hope and of the Veil, both of which have their pros and cons. (I actually tried Torch of Defiance for a while too, but have since moved off.)
In a meta like mine, with tons of Affinity and Eldrazi Tron, it feels like Veil is strongest. With all our spot removal, her -2 is a very clean answer to some sticky threats like Etched Champion and Reality Smasher. Seems like maybe a 0-2 split may be good? Maybe with 1-0 Last Hope as card advantage and board control?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Veil seems questionable in a Grixis shell, regardless of whether it's Shadow or Delver. You generally want to hold up countermagic and play at instant speed with the cards that will allow you to do so (and a lot of them do). Last Hope, on the other hand, seems pretty good, since it can fetch back threats that either died or were milled away. It's also a superb answer to Lingering Souls, which is a problematic answer to both these decks.
LOTV is a bit awkward when paired with Tasigur. Her +1 everyone pitches a card, you would typically pitch your most useless card. Activate Tasigur and your opponent gives your useless card back to you. I tried it once and immediately took it out. I think Last hope is better.
LOTV is a bit awkward when paired with Tasigur. Her +1 everyone pitches a card, you would typically pitch your most useless card. Activate Tasigur and your opponent gives your useless card back to you. I tried it once and immediately took it out. I think Last hope is better.
Anyone try Ryan Overturf's Delver + Shadow list? Seems interesting.
LOTV is a bit awkward when paired with Tasigur. Her +1 everyone pitches a card, you would typically pitch your most useless card. Activate Tasigur and your opponent gives your useless card back to you. I tried it once and immediately took it out. I think Last hope is better.
Anyone try Ryan Overturf's Delver + Shadow list? It wasn't Grixis Shadow. He didn't run Street Wraith's. He just jammed Death's Shadow next to the usual Grixis Delver shell. Tweaked somethings and I think he top 8ed an SCG classic. Seems interesting.
The biggest issue with Delver to me is that sometimes it turns opponents removal that otherwise would have been dead(Tarfire from the DSJ, Lightning Bolt from most decks too). It is not equally reliable as Death's Shadow in 'turning it on' as DS only asks you to lose/damage yourself, which at the same time provides us with better mana fixing(agressively shocking). Last but not least, it doesn't play well with Stubborn Denial.
I could see fields where Delver is better than Street Wraith, however if you want to beat your previously bad matchups with Grixis Delver, you might want to try Wraith and be a little more agressive in doing the 'Jund Thing'.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I have been playing the Death Shadow variant with a relatively stock 4 color list. Splashing white for an Orzhov charm main. My question is, after cutting down to 2 bolts in my 75 and I am still never all that pleased to see it. Am I a madman for considering cutting them all together for a Liliana, Last Hope and perhaps a Temur Battle Rage in the main?
I would argue that Lightning Bolt is more important to the Grixis shell due to Snapcaster Mage.
It's better in Grixis than Jund because of Snapcaster Mage. But if another spell is better in most match-ups, it's probably still better with Snapcaster.
Death's Shadow Jund runs Tarfire instead; mid-range Jund is starting to run Fatal Push instead. There's no argument for Tarfire in Grixis but Fatal Push is pretty popular these days with DS everywhere.
Still, if I were to replace Bolts with Pushes, I'd probably switch to Esper. This may make the whole point moot. Perhaps Grixis can't cut Bolt after all but one could play Esper Delver instead or just throw in the towel and play Shadow.
When I'm playing the white splash I have 2 bolts. If I'm not playing the splash I play the full set. Snap Bolt Snap still ends games where you need reach.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I find it amazing that Death's Shadow has really taken the meta by storm because Jund managed to do well with it. I personally will not make my Grixis deck into the new Death's Shadow deck with a minor splash of Delver. Grixis Delver is strong by itself and doesn't need to make the deck clunky with Death's Shadow and us wanting to get our life low for Burn to continue laughing at us and dominate the format even more now than usual. That is just my personal thoughts in regards to everyone thinking of going all for Death's Shadow variants because Jund did well with it.
Death's Shadows aren't expensive right now so I'm not worried in picking up a playset of them and trying them out. Just have to see how the meta will stabilize. Modern right now is very turbulent where many decks are popping up and others are being pushed back.
It's not a great MU, but there are a few things you can do to make it better. Mainboard, having more Terminates helps quite a bit with their big threats. I find that Mana Leak tends to be pretty good against them as well (unless they get Cavern of Souls online). Bolt any mana dorks you can and try to land a delve threat to stone wall a lot of their creatures. Have some sort of land destruction or disruption to deal with Temples or any other problematic lands. I prefer Fulminator Mage, but Blood Moon, Molten Rain, and even Spreading Seas can work against them too. Eldrazi can have some explosive starts then peter out, so just try to survive and disrupt the first 4 turns is my strategy.
In a meta like mine, with tons of Affinity and Eldrazi Tron, it feels like Veil is strongest. With all our spot removal, her -2 is a very clean answer to some sticky threats like Etched Champion and Reality Smasher. Seems like maybe a 0-2 split may be good? Maybe with 1-0 Last Hope as card advantage and board control?
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Anyone try Ryan Overturf's Delver + Shadow list? Seems interesting.
Anyone try Ryan Overturf's Delver + Shadow list? It wasn't Grixis Shadow. He didn't run Street Wraith's. He just jammed Death's Shadow next to the usual Grixis Delver shell. Tweaked somethings and I think he top 8ed an SCG classic. Seems interesting.
I could see fields where Delver is better than Street Wraith, however if you want to beat your previously bad matchups with Grixis Delver, you might want to try Wraith and be a little more agressive in doing the 'Jund Thing'.
On another note, i've been watching some Grixis Delver lists a little more compact and control oriented. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/605234#online
I like those lists for their resemblance to Grixis Control. Might want to put some cards in the SB for the grindier matchups though.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
My list:
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I would argue that Lightning Bolt is more important to the Grixis shell due to Snapcaster Mage.
And that Tarfire edges Bolt out because of Goyf and Traverse, not because Bolt isn't useful.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
It's better in Grixis than Jund because of Snapcaster Mage. But if another spell is better in most match-ups, it's probably still better with Snapcaster.
Death's Shadow Jund runs Tarfire instead; mid-range Jund is starting to run Fatal Push instead. There's no argument for Tarfire in Grixis but Fatal Push is pretty popular these days with DS everywhere.
Still, if I were to replace Bolts with Pushes, I'd probably switch to Esper. This may make the whole point moot. Perhaps Grixis can't cut Bolt after all but one could play Esper Delver instead or just throw in the towel and play Shadow.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn