I had unused playsets of Delver, Death's Shadow, and Bob laying around, so I decided to see if I could build an ultra-low average CMC Shadow Delver list that uses all three. I wasn't sure it was going to work, but I have actually had a lot of success with it so far and it's a lot of fun to play. This is what I came up with:
Note that I build this using only cards that I already had (well, the Baubles are proxied), so there were some limitations on what I was able to do with it. I think it turned out well though. I have had no trouble running only 15 land in this build. The average CMC is actually sub-1 when you count the phyrexian mana as zero.
I had unused playsets of Delver, Death's Shadow, and Bob laying around, so I decided to see if I could build an ultra-low average CMC Shadow Delver list that uses all three. I wasn't sure it was going to work, but I have actually had a lot of success with it so far and it's a lot of fun to play. This is what I came up with:
Note that I build this using only cards that I already had (well, the Baubles are proxied), so there were some limitations on what I was able to do with it. I think it turned out well though. I have had no trouble running only 15 land in this build. The average CMC is actually sub-1 when you count the phyrexian mana as zero.
Seems like a good start! First thing I'd do is swap Bauble for Street Wraith; you don't care about Delirium, and Wraith helps pump your Shadows. And are much easier on the wallet.
I'd also recommend at least a couple other card advantage engines; Snapcaster and K-Command if you have/can acquire them would be good IMO even on a tighter curve. Part of the reason I say that is that you're also really heavy on card disadvantage cards - 4 Bob can only go so far with 10 copies between Mutagenic, Noxious, and Battle Rage. Most Shadow lists are running fewer of those cards because of how easy Shadow is to remove with so much Push and Path in the meta. Also you're pretty short on threats to cast them on; Battle Rage isn't terribly impressive on a Delver or a Bob unless you have a third card to pump them (while hoping not to get blown out by removal). Even the 4-DS, 4-Goyf, 4 Traverse decks usually run only 1, maybe 2 Rage at max and no other pump.
Thanks for the list; hope the brewing goes well!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Problem with Bob is that Shadow decks want absolute control over the lifeloss and want to stabilize at around 9 life. I'd fit some number of Tasigur and Anglers in there (they are very cheap) and Stubborn Denials which is the main reason to play blue in a Shadow deck.
So, I've decided to experiement with having Delvers in the side of the Grixis Shadow deck. Control decks had done something similar in the past. I'm liking it so far, it's great with decks where we want an earlier threat and it soaks up removal that would have been used on a Tasigur. The biggest weakness is the SB, I don't have any tron in my meta so I decided to remove my land destruction.
Just wanted to share the decklists for the Top8 of a tournament we at MainPhaseMTG recently held (which included a Grixis Delver list as well as a Grixis Shadow list), as well as some musings on what these results could indicate for the format going forward. Check it out here. Let me know what you think!
Since this is still the only thread for Grixis Shadow discussion: What do people think of running 2 Collective Brutality main instead of the Inquisition of Kozilek? The deck already has enough turn one plays (4 Serum Visions, 4 Thought Scour, 4 Thoughtseize, and sometimes even Tasigur or Deaths's Shadow if your hand is spicy enough) without IoK. Collective Brutality is a powerhouse, and its third mode helps mitigate the damage we do to ourselves if we need to, which happens if you can't find a shadow or are in bolt range.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I use a lot of usernames for some reason, so if you see this person, it's me: Twitch: Artificier10 MTGO and Discord: PollenProphet
Since this is still the only thread for Grixis Shadow discussion: What do people think of running 2 Collective Brutality main instead of the Inquisition of Kozilek? The deck already has enough turn one plays (4 Serum Visions, 4 Thought Scour, 4 Thoughtseize, and sometimes even Tasigur or Deaths's Shadow if your hand is spicy enough) without IoK. Collective Brutality is a powerhouse, and its third mode helps mitigate the damage we do to ourselves if we need to, which happens if you can't find a shadow or are in bolt range.
Collective Brutality has gotten a lot worse as a MD card now that infect got nerfed and so few people are playing the deck. It's only really a powerhouse when you can trade 2-3 cards from your hand for 2-3 of their cards. This is almost always the case vs burn, which is why it's still a SB card in grixis shadow, but there's not a ton of other places where it still does that. Infect, occasionally vs storm (but they only run 3 electromancers typically), and some fringe decks. And 1 vs 2 mana is not just about casting it on turn 1. It's also about casting multiple spells on turn 2, 3, etc. Collective Brutality still effectively does that at its best, but its just not at its best as often right now.
I also think it's a big advantage that nearly every spell you have is a one drop (hence why people dropped terminates for more Fatal Pushes) that allow you to have more open mana.
What do people think of one of Orzhov Charm in Shadow? My mana base already ran Strands for budget reasons so all I'd have to do is take out a Steam Vents for a Godless Shrine
I also think it's a big advantage that nearly every spell you have is a one drop (hence why people dropped terminates for more Fatal Pushes) that allow you to have more open mana.
What do people think of one of Orzhov Charm in Shadow? My mana base already ran Strands for budget reasons so all I'd have to do is take out a Steam Vents for a Godless Shrine
Getting Death's Shadow back is kind of cool I guess, but if you're just interested in the Vendetta-effect, play, well, you know.
2-1 vs Jeskai Delver
2-0 vs Grixis Control
2-1 vs RG Ponza
2-0 vs Grixis delver (no DS afaik)
How was dreadbore? In all situations, I hated it with a PASSION. I would rather deal with attacking a planeswalker than doing anything at sorcery speed..
I've been struggling to finalize a list of cards I want to play. So many great options!! I think I'm going to go a little heavier on the kill ability than most for my meta. I really don't think I want to give up the terminate. I've been wanting to put thoughtseize in the main and surgical extraction in the side for awhile now so thsoe are welcome changes. Here is what I'm going to run tomorrow. Sideboard is more of a placeholder but probably what Ill take with me regardless.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Went 3-0-1 last night and took down first place. Beat Esper Blade (think of it as an Esper Control deck) 2-0, beat Merfolk 2-0, tied Kiki Chord 1-1, and beat Affinity 2-0. Changes that I'll make is -1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang main, +1 Terminate main, and +1 Nihil Spellbomb (would eventually like to have 2 in the sideboard and would remove the Crumble to Dust to do so). Like I've been advocating to my friends and other forum threads, I like Delver of Secrets more than Street Wraith in Grixis Shadow. Other people's counterpoint is that they want to treat the Grixis DS version like the Jund and Abzan variant but the deck just plays slower and differently than the other two. I like having the extra threats in Delver of Secrets and am using Death's Shadow more as a replacement for Young Pyromancer more than anything else.
Hello! So, for some time, Grixis Delver has been one of my favorite decks, eventually edging out Grixis control. I'm looking to get into the classic list, running no Death's Shadows. I'm open to comments/criticisms about my current list, but I have tried to deck it somewhat to my local meta. Its fairly burn heavy, a few Revolt Zoo's thrown in, Ad Nauseum, Storm, a few tron players (One Mono-Blue, one Eldrazi), and depending on the week, Grixis Death's Shadow, or Amulet bloom. The rest is some homebrewed stuff, dredge, Jund, and a budget infect. Also a few control decks running around - Jeskai Nahiri and Grixis Control.
The mainboard brutalities were for burn/zoo. Not sure about electrolyze, I think I might want to up the snare count by one, but not really too sure.
For the side, the Thoughtseizes were for Ad Naseum, Amulet Bloom, and any other combo deck I might run into. Surgicals are in there for Storm and Dredge, Staticaster for Zoo, extra push for zoo/burn/infect/anything else. Engineered Explosives for zoo/burn/infect, Grixis Shadow, maybe some other matchups. Ceremonious Rejection for tron, Dragon's Claw for burn, Countersquall for Ad Naseum, Storm, Control Matchups. Lilliana, the Last Hope for grindy matchups - Jund, Control?
At least that's my thoughts, any input is awesome!
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
4x Watery Grave
Creatures (12)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Death's Shadow
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Mishra's Bauble
Sorceries (12)
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Serum Visions
2x Sleight of Hand
4x Thoughtseize
Instants (17)
4x Dismember
3x Fatal Push
4x Mutagenic Growth
3x Noxious Revival
3x Temur Battle Rage
Feedback is appreciated!
Note that I build this using only cards that I already had (well, the Baubles are proxied), so there were some limitations on what I was able to do with it. I think it turned out well though. I have had no trouble running only 15 land in this build. The average CMC is actually sub-1 when you count the phyrexian mana as zero.
BW BW Tokens
BUW Esper Shadow
BUR Grixis Shadow
Seems like a good start! First thing I'd do is swap Bauble for Street Wraith; you don't care about Delirium, and Wraith helps pump your Shadows. And are much easier on the wallet.
I'd also recommend at least a couple other card advantage engines; Snapcaster and K-Command if you have/can acquire them would be good IMO even on a tighter curve. Part of the reason I say that is that you're also really heavy on card disadvantage cards - 4 Bob can only go so far with 10 copies between Mutagenic, Noxious, and Battle Rage. Most Shadow lists are running fewer of those cards because of how easy Shadow is to remove with so much Push and Path in the meta. Also you're pretty short on threats to cast them on; Battle Rage isn't terribly impressive on a Delver or a Bob unless you have a third card to pump them (while hoping not to get blown out by removal). Even the 4-DS, 4-Goyf, 4 Traverse decks usually run only 1, maybe 2 Rage at max and no other pump.
Thanks for the list; hope the brewing goes well!
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
So, I've decided to experiement with having Delvers in the side of the Grixis Shadow deck. Control decks had done something similar in the past. I'm liking it so far, it's great with decks where we want an earlier threat and it soaks up removal that would have been used on a Tasigur. The biggest weakness is the SB, I don't have any tron in my meta so I decided to remove my land destruction.
4 Death's Shadow
1 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Instant (15)
3 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Stubborn Denial
4 Thought Scour
Sorcery (10)
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
Land (19)
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Collective Brutality
1 Countersquall
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Terminate
Just wanted to share the decklists for the Top8 of a tournament we at MainPhaseMTG recently held (which included a Grixis Delver list as well as a Grixis Shadow list), as well as some musings on what these results could indicate for the format going forward. Check it out here. Let me know what you think!
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Twitch: Artificier10
MTGO and Discord: PollenProphet
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
GWUKnightfallGWU
UBRGrixis ShadowUBR
Collective Brutality has gotten a lot worse as a MD card now that infect got nerfed and so few people are playing the deck. It's only really a powerhouse when you can trade 2-3 cards from your hand for 2-3 of their cards. This is almost always the case vs burn, which is why it's still a SB card in grixis shadow, but there's not a ton of other places where it still does that. Infect, occasionally vs storm (but they only run 3 electromancers typically), and some fringe decks. And 1 vs 2 mana is not just about casting it on turn 1. It's also about casting multiple spells on turn 2, 3, etc. Collective Brutality still effectively does that at its best, but its just not at its best as often right now.
What do people think of one of Orzhov Charm in Shadow? My mana base already ran Strands for budget reasons so all I'd have to do is take out a Steam Vents for a Godless Shrine
Getting Death's Shadow back is kind of cool I guess, but if you're just interested in the Vendetta-effect, play, well, you know.
Kommand already does the getting-back thing.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I've played Delve(r) Shadow twice now with abysmal results.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
How was dreadbore? In all situations, I hated it with a PASSION. I would rather deal with attacking a planeswalker than doing anything at sorcery speed..
What! Is this for real!?
No it isn't. The fact that it is an invocation does not mean that it is in the set. Maro also confirmed that Aven Mindcensor and the Gods are the only Invocations that are also regular cards in the set.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought scour
3 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Stubborn Denial
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Spirebluff Canal
2 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Stubborn Denial
3 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dispel
2 Countersquall
2 Collective Brutality
1 Fatal Push
1 Vendilion Clique
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Wouldn't we be seeing more people talk about this if it were real? It looks nice but we already received word from a source that it wasn't in the set.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler
Instants (15)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thought Scour
2 Stubborn Denial
3 Fatal Push
1 Terminate
1 Kolaghan's Command
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Land (19)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
1 Steam Vents
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Fatal Push
1 Terminate
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Collective Brutality
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Crumble to Dust
Went 3-0-1 last night and took down first place. Beat Esper Blade (think of it as an Esper Control deck) 2-0, beat Merfolk 2-0, tied Kiki Chord 1-1, and beat Affinity 2-0. Changes that I'll make is -1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang main, +1 Terminate main, and +1 Nihil Spellbomb (would eventually like to have 2 in the sideboard and would remove the Crumble to Dust to do so). Like I've been advocating to my friends and other forum threads, I like Delver of Secrets more than Street Wraith in Grixis Shadow. Other people's counterpoint is that they want to treat the Grixis DS version like the Jund and Abzan variant but the deck just plays slower and differently than the other two. I like having the extra threats in Delver of Secrets and am using Death's Shadow more as a replacement for Young Pyromancer more than anything else.
Image uploaded March 17, 2013.
Yeah, I'm sure that Wizards grabs card art from random wallpaper sites. Took a grand total of about 45 seconds to disprove it.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
4 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Swamp
2 Island
1 Mountian
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Spirebluff Canal
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
2 Collective Brutality
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
3 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan’s Command
1 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Murderous Cut
2 Terminate
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Countersquall
2 Dragon’s Claw
1 Lilliana, the Last Hope
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Dispel
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Thoughtseize
1 Kolaghan’s Command
1 Ceremonious Rejection
The mainboard brutalities were for burn/zoo. Not sure about electrolyze, I think I might want to up the snare count by one, but not really too sure.
For the side, the Thoughtseizes were for Ad Naseum, Amulet Bloom, and any other combo deck I might run into. Surgicals are in there for Storm and Dredge, Staticaster for Zoo, extra push for zoo/burn/infect/anything else. Engineered Explosives for zoo/burn/infect, Grixis Shadow, maybe some other matchups. Ceremonious Rejection for tron, Dragon's Claw for burn, Countersquall for Ad Naseum, Storm, Control Matchups. Lilliana, the Last Hope for grindy matchups - Jund, Control?
At least that's my thoughts, any input is awesome!
"Grixis Cryptic Delver Death"
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Island
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
4x Death's Shadow
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Instant (15)
2x Cryptic Command
3x Fatal Push
1x Kolaghan's Command
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Stubborn Denial
2x Terminate
3x Thought Scour
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Rise // Fall
4x Serum Visions
4x Thoughtseize
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun