RE: Fetches and Delver triggers. Keep in mind that you can also use Thought Scour for the same effect! If you don't want to draw the card that you see with Delver, Scour yourself and try again.
Thanks for the suggestions! I've used some of them and modified my list a little. I think I'm going to still try 5 delve creatures, go ahead and add Vendilion, and go up to a playset of Mana Leak and fatal push for now. Here is my revised list:
As others have said, I recommend less Delve creatures. If you're absolutely committed to five however, I would suggest a 3-2 split of Tasigur and Angler. Tasigur is horrendous in multiples and a full playset + all the cantrips all but guarantees that you'll see multiple copies of the card. With multiple Anglers you have a threat you can cast with a Tasigur on board and three Tasigurs still gives you a pretty good shot at getting one out on turn 2 or 3.
As for the hand disruption: I am not a fan. I understand it's sideboard for combo and the like but it's truly not as good as you might think it is in this kind of shell. On top of that it takes a full 11 (!) slots in your sideboard. Brutality is fine because it doubles as removal and life gain against Burn, but a full 8 copies of 1CMC hand disruption is way too many. I highly recommend diversifying your board.
Remember that your sideboard is ultimately flexible and tailored to the meta you're expecting, especially in a deck like this. I recommend looking at your meta and adjusting based on what you think you need the most help with.
I plan on playing Grixis Shadow tonight for Modern. Going to use Ryan Overturf's list with the recommended changes to the sideboard he said to make. I don't know if anyone else watched the SCG tourney but Overturf said on camera that Grixis Shadow was a better deck than Grixis Delver in the current meta. My only concern with the deck is how hard it can be to pilot it because of the proper management of your life total. However, I am excited to play it tonight.
Right now I am always facing off against Goryo Vengance, Ad Nauseam, and thopter combo as some of the staples in my meta (its a strange store) EDIT: Also scapeshift!. Skred is also popular and other decks as well. The meta shifts pretty regularly so I'm sure at somepoint they will get back around to dredge and infect. Sometimes burn but I'm usually the burn player.
Collected Brutality is in there more as an ultimate weapon against Infect, Burn, etc. It's an absolutely devastating card that sets up a delved creature turn 3. I may shift down to 2 though.
I did change my delve creature layout to 3 Tasigur and 2 Gurmag.
There's a fair amount of Abzan and U/x Control decks at my shop, so I like having a big dummy that they have to answer. In this case Jace stops Lingering Souls and can draw me good cards when the game stalls out.
I was able to borrow 3 Snapcaster Mage from a friend last night to make a poor man's version of my deck build while I wait for MM17 to release to get the Tarn and Snaps. I also have some of the deck coming in the mail so I ended up using 4 Tasigur, a playset of Bloodstained Mire, and a playset of Watery Grave. Still even with a substandard build I placed 2nd!
Round 1: GW Tron 2-1 WIN
I'm able to counter his early search and keep him off of tron. I land a tasigur and take him for the win.
Round 2 he lands a turn 2 Chalice on 1 and I'm not able to stabalize after that.
Round 3 I have spell snare in hand this time to counter his chalice and keep him off footing. I do a fun bit of magic where I kill his Thoughtknot Seer with his trigger on stack, draw a card, and then reveal.
Round 2: GR Tron 2-1 WIN
Another tron player. G1 I flip 2 Delver for an easy win and counter his Kozilek's return.
Game 2 He get's tron naturally and plays Wurmcoil, Ugin, and then finally Emrakul. I manage to counter the first 2 but not the third for an easy loss on my part.
Game 3 I disrupt his hand and keep him off tron and kill with a delver and a tasigur.
Round 3: UG Infect 2-0 WIN
Game 1: Push the first infect, Spell Snare the second infect. All to easy.
Game 2: 2 Inquisition and 1 Push, I dismantle 2 infect dudes while having pulled his Blossoming Defense with the first Inqusition.
Round 4: Scapeshift 1-2 LOSS
Game 1: He faulters and doesnt end up with a valakut or a scapeshift. I push his Courser of Kruphix and terminate his Prime Time.
Game 2: 2 Valakuts in his opening hand. Khalini Expedition ends up wiping my board and dealing damage to me.
Game 3. Thoughtseize and 2 Collective Brutality later I discard out 2 scapeshift. I have him on the ropes and he draws a third scapeshift for the win. Nothing able to be done about it.
It looks like my store might be cycling back to tron. I was fortunate enough this time to disrupt the tron players early however I feel some sideboard changes are in order. I'm cutting the Inquisition of Kozilek and keeping the playset of Thoughtseize as I feel it is the best all around for hand disruption. I'm going ahead and dedicated 3 sideboard slots to countering colorless spells to start and then I might drop it down to 2. I'm looking forward to finishing the list hopefully in time for our next modern tournament in a week. Here will be my list going forward:
So, are this new Grixis Shadow decks still a thing?
I'm inclined giving the deck a spin but i'm not sure yet how i feel about my list, especially the sideboard.
Add a land and play more hard removal MD; you can shave a bolt. Otherwise, there's no consensus about how to build this deck yet. Michael Majors streamed with it a bit on twitch if you want to see his take, and Gerry Thompson has a vid series up on the SCG free side if you want to see his take.
Anyone been playing 19 lands ? I went up to 20 lands after the Probe-ban... and I get flooded quite a lot! I don't know if I should go back down. I still have D-Lighthouse in my sideboard to go up to 20 when I need too. Any thoughts?
I started at 20 but 19 feels great with all the cantrips. In the long games I don't seem to have trouble getting to 4 for a snap 2cmc trick or Tasigur activation.
Now that I think about it, with Crumble to Dust that I'm trying out, maybe it's better to stay at 20 lands for now.
Tested Crumble against Eldrazi Tron and didn't like it. It's too slow and doesn't wreck them as much as classic Tron because of E.Temple.
I wonder if it's a fine choice against classic Tron or Valakut. With so much Eldrazi running around i think Fulminator Mage or Molten Rain(my choice right now) might be better.
Bob can be sacrificed to Falkenrath to prevent loss of life. Also, Snap can be flashed in to sacrifice to Falkenrath, giving K command flashback, returning snap. All the creatures besides Falkenrath are human so they boost Falkenrath.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I'm all for trying new things, but Falkenrath Aristocrat seems silly to me. It dies to every piece of removal in the house while costing 4 mana. Let's say you sacrifice a human to her in response to removal, what have you really achieved? You're still down 1 creature/card and your vampire isn't out of Bolt range yet. I think the Aristocrat comes down too late and is way too fragile to really work.
Compare it to Mistbind Clique in UB Faeries. It also requires a creature to sacrifice. Mistbind Clique does something upon entering and is a lot tougher, and you get the fodder back on top of that. And Mistbind Clique still isn't that great in Modern, I think.
If you want a cool 4-drop, I'd go for Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. The lifelink fixes a major problem that this deck has, and it synergizes with our removal suite.
I was able to borrow 3 Snapcaster Mage from a friend last night to make a poor man's version of my deck build while I wait for MM17 to release to get the Tarn and Snaps. I also have some of the deck coming in the mail so I ended up using 4 Tasigur, a playset of Bloodstained Mire, and a playset of Watery Grave. Still even with a substandard build I placed 2nd!
Round 1: GW Tron 2-1 WIN
I'm able to counter his early search and keep him off of tron. I land a tasigur and take him for the win.
Round 2 he lands a turn 2 Chalice on 1 and I'm not able to stabalize after that.
Round 3 I have spell snare in hand this time to counter his chalice and keep him off footing. I do a fun bit of magic where I kill his Thoughtknot Seer with his trigger on stack, draw a card, and then reveal.
Round 2: GR Tron 2-1 WIN
Another tron player. G1 I flip 2 Delver for an easy win and counter his Kozilek's return.
Game 2 He get's tron naturally and plays Wurmcoil, Ugin, and then finally Emrakul. I manage to counter the first 2 but not the third for an easy loss on my part.
Game 3 I disrupt his hand and keep him off tron and kill with a delver and a tasigur.
Round 3: UG Infect 2-0 WIN
Game 1: Push the first infect, Spell Snare the second infect. All to easy.
Game 2: 2 Inquisition and 1 Push, I dismantle 2 infect dudes while having pulled his Blossoming Defense with the first Inqusition.
Round 4: Scapeshift 1-2 LOSS
Game 1: He faulters and doesnt end up with a valakut or a scapeshift. I push his Courser of Kruphix and terminate his Prime Time.
Game 2: 2 Valakuts in his opening hand. Khalini Expedition ends up wiping my board and dealing damage to me.
Game 3. Thoughtseize and 2 Collective Brutality later I discard out 2 scapeshift. I have him on the ropes and he draws a third scapeshift for the win. Nothing able to be done about it.
It looks like my store might be cycling back to tron. I was fortunate enough this time to disrupt the tron players early however I feel some sideboard changes are in order. I'm cutting the Inquisition of Kozilek and keeping the playset of Thoughtseize as I feel it is the best all around for hand disruption. I'm going ahead and dedicated 3 sideboard slots to countering colorless spells to start and then I might drop it down to 2. I'm looking forward to finishing the list hopefully in time for our next modern tournament in a week. Here will be my list going forward:
Congratulations on the result! But you do realize spell snare doesn't counter chalice of the void?? X in mana costs is always zero...
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Modern:
URB Grixis Delver URB
WUB Ad Nauseam WUB
(On Lantern Control)"A guy who literally just sits there and mills cards he doesn't like from your library while he slowly, slowly kills you this way."
"If a person's profile includes anime or My Little Pony, feel free to ignore everything they say."
Wait what? Did they update the rules bc a judge told me I couldn't spell snare a chalice on one like a few months ago
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Modern:
URB Grixis Delver URB
WUB Ad Nauseam WUB
(On Lantern Control)"A guy who literally just sits there and mills cards he doesn't like from your library while he slowly, slowly kills you this way."
"If a person's profile includes anime or My Little Pony, feel free to ignore everything they say."
Whatever judge told you that is insane. A Chalice for 1 is considered to have a CMC of 2 while on the stack. This applies to every spell with X in it (i.e. Condescend for 1).
Now that I think about it, with Crumble to Dust that I'm trying out, maybe it's better to stay at 20 lands for now.
Tested Crumble against Eldrazi Tron and didn't like it. It's too slow and doesn't wreck them as much as classic Tron because of E.Temple.
I wonder if it's a fine choice against classic Tron or Valakut. With so much Eldrazi running around I think Fulminator Mage or Molten Rain(my choice right now) might be better.
From my experience, Crumble is decent against Valakut. Once it hits that volcano, it's gone and you just play fair Magic against Primeval Titan and Obstinate Baloth.
Now for classic Tron, it's 50/50. Eldrazi Tron, it's probably terrible.
Crumble is okay against Valakut but horrific against Tron. It's just too slow. Even if you're on the play you give them the chance to assemble Tron before you can cast it. In my opinion Ghost Quarter + Surgical Extraction is better. It's faster, instant speed and 0 mana. Ghost Quarter by itself is fine and Surgical by itself is also fine, so you're playing bad cards to enable a good combo - you're playing two good cards that work great together.
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Modern URW Control WBG Abzan GRW Burn
EDH GR Rosheen Meanderer
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As others have said, I recommend less Delve creatures. If you're absolutely committed to five however, I would suggest a 3-2 split of Tasigur and Angler. Tasigur is horrendous in multiples and a full playset + all the cantrips all but guarantees that you'll see multiple copies of the card. With multiple Anglers you have a threat you can cast with a Tasigur on board and three Tasigurs still gives you a pretty good shot at getting one out on turn 2 or 3.
As for the hand disruption: I am not a fan. I understand it's sideboard for combo and the like but it's truly not as good as you might think it is in this kind of shell. On top of that it takes a full 11 (!) slots in your sideboard. Brutality is fine because it doubles as removal and life gain against Burn, but a full 8 copies of 1CMC hand disruption is way too many. I highly recommend diversifying your board.
For the record, this is my current sideboard:
2 Countersquall
2 Magma Spray
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Painful Truths
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ghost Quarter
Remember that your sideboard is ultimately flexible and tailored to the meta you're expecting, especially in a deck like this. I recommend looking at your meta and adjusting based on what you think you need the most help with.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Right now I am always facing off against Goryo Vengance, Ad Nauseam, and thopter combo as some of the staples in my meta (its a strange store) EDIT: Also scapeshift!. Skred is also popular and other decks as well. The meta shifts pretty regularly so I'm sure at somepoint they will get back around to dredge and infect. Sometimes burn but I'm usually the burn player.
Collected Brutality is in there more as an ultimate weapon against Infect, Burn, etc. It's an absolutely devastating card that sets up a delved creature turn 3. I may shift down to 2 though.
I did change my delve creature layout to 3 Tasigur and 2 Gurmag.
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Round 1: GW Tron 2-1 WIN
I'm able to counter his early search and keep him off of tron. I land a tasigur and take him for the win.
Round 2 he lands a turn 2 Chalice on 1 and I'm not able to stabalize after that.
Round 3 I have spell snare in hand this time to counter his chalice and keep him off footing. I do a fun bit of magic where I kill his Thoughtknot Seer with his trigger on stack, draw a card, and then reveal.
Round 2: GR Tron 2-1 WIN
Another tron player. G1 I flip 2 Delver for an easy win and counter his Kozilek's return.
Game 2 He get's tron naturally and plays Wurmcoil, Ugin, and then finally Emrakul. I manage to counter the first 2 but not the third for an easy loss on my part.
Game 3 I disrupt his hand and keep him off tron and kill with a delver and a tasigur.
Round 3: UG Infect 2-0 WIN
Game 1: Push the first infect, Spell Snare the second infect. All to easy.
Game 2: 2 Inquisition and 1 Push, I dismantle 2 infect dudes while having pulled his Blossoming Defense with the first Inqusition.
Round 4: Scapeshift 1-2 LOSS
Game 1: He faulters and doesnt end up with a valakut or a scapeshift. I push his Courser of Kruphix and terminate his Prime Time.
Game 2: 2 Valakuts in his opening hand. Khalini Expedition ends up wiping my board and dealing damage to me.
Game 3. Thoughtseize and 2 Collective Brutality later I discard out 2 scapeshift. I have him on the ropes and he draws a third scapeshift for the win. Nothing able to be done about it.
It looks like my store might be cycling back to tron. I was fortunate enough this time to disrupt the tron players early however I feel some sideboard changes are in order. I'm cutting the Inquisition of Kozilek and keeping the playset of Thoughtseize as I feel it is the best all around for hand disruption. I'm going ahead and dedicated 3 sideboard slots to countering colorless spells to start and then I might drop it down to 2. I'm looking forward to finishing the list hopefully in time for our next modern tournament in a week. Here will be my list going forward:
// 14 Creature
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Vendilion Clique
// 23 Instant
4 Thought Scour
2 Terminate
4 Fatal Push
1 Murderous Cut
4 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Spirebluff Canal
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Steam Vents
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
// 4 Sorcery
4 Serum Visions
2 Dispel
2 Spell Snare
2 Countersquall
3 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
4 Thoughtseize
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Add a land and play more hard removal MD; you can shave a bolt. Otherwise, there's no consensus about how to build this deck yet. Michael Majors streamed with it a bit on twitch if you want to see his take, and Gerry Thompson has a vid series up on the SCG free side if you want to see his take.
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Tested Crumble against Eldrazi Tron and didn't like it. It's too slow and doesn't wreck them as much as classic Tron because of E.Temple.
I wonder if it's a fine choice against classic Tron or Valakut. With so much Eldrazi running around i think Fulminator Mage or Molten Rain(my choice right now) might be better.
4 delver
4 snap
4 bob
4 Falkenrath aristocrat
Spells 20
4 inquisition
4 bolt
4 fatal push
4 serum visions
4 khologhan's command
Lands
4 darkslick shores
4 polluted delta
2 bloodstained mire
2 scalding tarn
1 watery grave
1 blood crypt
1 steam vents
1 swamp
1 island
3 creeping tar pit
4 cavern of souls
2 spellskite
2 spell snare
2 duress
2 Izzit staticaster
2 Kalitas
2 cryptic command
2 spell pierce
1 stormbreath dragon
Bob can be sacrificed to Falkenrath to prevent loss of life. Also, Snap can be flashed in to sacrifice to Falkenrath, giving K command flashback, returning snap. All the creatures besides Falkenrath are human so they boost Falkenrath.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Compare it to Mistbind Clique in UB Faeries. It also requires a creature to sacrifice. Mistbind Clique does something upon entering and is a lot tougher, and you get the fodder back on top of that. And Mistbind Clique still isn't that great in Modern, I think.
If you want a cool 4-drop, I'd go for Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. The lifelink fixes a major problem that this deck has, and it synergizes with our removal suite.
Congratulations on the result! But you do realize spell snare doesn't counter chalice of the void?? X in mana costs is always zero...
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/285522-chalice-of-the-void-vs-spell-snare
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Edit: What those guys above me said!
From my experience, Crumble is decent against Valakut. Once it hits that volcano, it's gone and you just play fair Magic against Primeval Titan and Obstinate Baloth.
Now for classic Tron, it's 50/50. Eldrazi Tron, it's probably terrible.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer