I chose 3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang over a 2-1 split with Gurmag Angler because yes, in the ideal world where you can get two delve creatures out on the board side by side, the 2-1 split is great. But for my first delve threat, and if it's the only one I see during the game, it has to be Tasigur. He generates so much value when we're playing the control game. There are a lot of matches where I only see 1 Delve threat, and if it had been Gurmag, I probably would have lost. Not saying it's wrong to have 2-1 split, but I'm hesitant to play a "beater" over a "control" threat. With that said, I would be interested in finding a 12th creature slot for 1 Gurmag, but I wouldn't want to cut the Tasigur for it. But like I said, deck is still in preliminary testing and there's a lot of tuning to be done. I'm very hopeful for this type of build!
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Stoked for what's to come.. seen a few people running chandra.. not certain about her, but she protects herself and we can just ramp every turn instead of exiling. Maybe gonna test a 1 of.
Stoked for what's to come.. seen a few people running chandra.. not certain about her, but she protects herself and we can just ramp every turn instead of exiling. Maybe gonna test a 1 of.
For Delver, I like Chandra, Torch of Defiance a lot more as a sideboard card than as a maindeck inclusion. But test away!
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Stoked for what's to come.. seen a few people running chandra.. not certain about her, but she protects herself and we can just ramp every turn instead of exiling. Maybe gonna test a 1 of.
For Delver, I like Chandra, Torch of Defiance a lot more as a sideboard card than as a maindeck inclusion. But test away!
Haha will do. Saw your post in the other thread. She intrigues me for the reasons you mentioned.
For the people that like gameplay videos to be a surprise in terms of results, I'll post my thoughts and decklist in the spoilers below. But for anyone wondering, the deck performed splendidly. Stay tuned in the next couple days as I edit and upload the next playlist.
So, for those that want the WHOLE playlist to be spoiled, we went 5-0 in a Modern Competitive League with the following decklist:
So the deck felt really smooth, consistent, and effective against the decks I faced. We beat Mono-White D&T, Bant Knightfall, RW Sun&Moon Prison, Living End, and Mono-U Tron. I'll let you watch the videos that will be uploaded soon to see how exactly the games went. Some were close and required tight play, and others were not! If anyone has any questions about some of the deck choices, feel free to ask but I also go over the decklist in the deck tech video (which, again, will all be uploaded soon).
Hi I'm not doubting you but I couldn't find this list on mtggoldfish. Would you be able to post a link to the list? I'd like to see the other 5-0's for that day as well.
Unfortunately, 5-0s sometimes get missed. I've had 1 of mine slip under the radar as well. This list looks basically like if you had mashed Corey Burkhart's Grixis Control list together with a Delver list. Interesting. How did the Delvers themselves fare?
I recorded all the matches so I assure you it happened. I'm not sure what the process is for 5-0's getting posted, though. Everything is uploaded on YouTube so I'll post the link once I make it public.
I enjoyed the Delvers a lot as they were an extra clock that helped in most of the matches. I didn't face any "hard" control decks though, and I imagine Delver is underwhelming in those matchups.
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Check out some Magic Gameplay and Commentary videos here, including Modern Grixis, Jeskai, and Esper videos as well as some Standard and Drafts too: My YouTube Channel!
And, if you're COMPLETELY behind, I've compiled all of my current videos from start to finish in a 16-video long playlist: Complete Modern Grixis Playlist
I hate to say this part because it feels like a shameless plug, but feel free to like/subscribe/comment so I can bring you some more Grixis content in the future. MTGO ain't free!
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Check out some Magic Gameplay and Commentary videos here, including Modern Grixis, Jeskai, and Esper videos as well as some Standard and Drafts too: My YouTube Channel!
Unfortunately, 5-0s sometimes get missed. I've had 1 of mine slip under the radar as well. This list looks basically like if you had mashed Corey Burkhart's Grixis Control list together with a Delver list. Interesting. How did the Delvers themselves fare?
It literally is grixis control with delvers instead of ancestral. The thing is, delver and ancestral shine in different match ups. It's a deck that plays its certain strengths. An example I mentioned before was would I rather t1 delver vs jund? I'd rather t1 vision.. What about t1 vision vs tron? Seems ok, but t1 delver is probably better. So really, the shell, including the mana base is grixis control, which has a much stronger late game, but with better closing ability, and t1 delver flip wins. Also, on the topic of vs control.. A lot of times the control opponent will keep in loads of removal after seeing a delver, but if you have them sided then you make a lot of their draws dead. Just an observation from people not knowing wth you're playing lol. I even had an opponent side in staticaster because he thought he was gonna see a young peez.
Hey all I have a SB question. I know answers about SB are meta dependent but I'll give y'all some background. At my two local shops I've been getting stomped by tron as usual, however now there is an eldrazi tron list at both shops, and I've never felt so outmatched in magic. Rather than having variety in my SB for any of the matchups I may face, I'm thinking of stacking it with the focus on eldrazi and burn. I'm thinking about running 4 of ceremonious rejection, 2 molten rain, shattering spree, and maybe damnation for the eldrazi match up. Has anyone ever approached anything like this situation? I don't think I can beat eldrazi tron without drawing at least 3 SB cards.
Hey all I have a SB question. I know answers about SB are meta dependent but I'll give y'all some background. At my two local shops I've been getting stomped by tron as usual, however now there is an eldrazi tron list at both shops, and I've never felt so outmatched in magic. Rather than having variety in my SB for any of the matchups I may face, I'm thinking of stacking it with the focus on eldrazi and burn. I'm thinking about running 4 of ceremonious rejection, 2 molten rain, shattering spree, and maybe damnation for the eldrazi match up. Has anyone ever approached anything like this situation? I don't think I can beat eldrazi tron without drawing at least 3 SB cards.
Welcome to the realization of why this deck will never be tier 1!
I don't mean to sound like a downer, but Eldrazi and Tron are probably our worst of the worst matchups. They're extremely difficult and mostly miserable to play, even if we DO draw all our sideboard cards. Don't let it get under your skin, just know that it's a massive uphill battle against these decks. Blood Moon is probably our best option against both, unless we want to run the Fulminator Mage/Surgical Extraction set, but none of those are effective without early/consistent pressure. Ceremonious Rejection is bad because Eldrazi plays Cavern of Souls and will just laugh at that card. Timely Countersquall and early Mana Leaks on Tron's setup pieces can help (like counter their sylvan scrying or ancient stirrings). I can say one of my best matches against Tron involved an early Surgical Extraction targeting Ancient Stirrings and then smashing with Tasigur while he spun his wheels looking for lands and threats. But in the end, it's like a 30/70 matchup. It's very likely you will lose, so if it does happen, just try not to let it tilt you for the next round.
And, if you're COMPLETELY behind, I've compiled all of my current videos from start to finish in a 16-video long playlist: Complete Modern Grixis Playlist
I hate to say this part because it feels like a shameless plug, but feel free to like/subscribe/comment so I can bring you some more Grixis content in the future. MTGO ain't free!
All right, watched 'me all. Thanks for sharing, and congrats again on the finish!
I think this is a good way of approaching the meta with all the big mana going on. You need early pressure against those decks which means Control has a hard time, but Delver can sputter and die pretty easily if you can't win early (and the decks in question are very good at shutting you down). The Control shell packs just enough disruption to keep above water, and I'd be lying if I said AV doesn't sometimes pull you out of the fire even vs. Tron. But generally it feels to me like AV just isn't positioned well right now. It was a good inclusion when you were either going up against Midrange, Control, or creature-aggro where you could kill their threats and then coast off an AV refill, but it's just so hard to interact profitably with big mana without dedicating and drawing a whole slew of sideboard cards (most of which aren't even great gotchas).
On the list, I personally think you're a good candidate for Blood Moon. You have the clock to back it up, it keeps your Mana Leaks live vs. Tron, and it only really turns off Cryptic (or occasional Snap lines). Maybe that last one is too important, but it's one of the best ways we have of neutering our toughest matchups as long as we've got the clock to back it up. Kommand-Fulminator is pretty slick, but it didn't seem super relevant in your games.
I also agree with your assessment that 4 Cryptic may be too many. Maybe 3-1? I've been enamored with Leak and Snare lately (with 2 Squall 1 Dispel SB), so maybe it's just a question of how many counters total to run rather than the # of Cryptic.
Anyways, thanks again for sharing! This is a nice take on the deck, and decently positioned at the moment IMO. I'd like to see it catch on.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Hey all I have a SB question. I know answers about SB are meta dependent but I'll give y'all some background. At my two local shops I've been getting stomped by tron as usual, however now there is an eldrazi tron list at both shops, and I've never felt so outmatched in magic. Rather than having variety in my SB for any of the matchups I may face, I'm thinking of stacking it with the focus on eldrazi and burn. I'm thinking about running 4 of ceremonious rejection, 2 molten rain, shattering spree, and maybe damnation for the eldrazi match up. Has anyone ever approached anything like this situation? I don't think I can beat eldrazi tron without drawing at least 3 SB cards.
Welcome to the realization of why this deck will never be tier 1!
I don't mean to sound like a downer, but Eldrazi and Tron are probably our worst of the worst matchups. They're extremely difficult and mostly miserable to play, even if we DO draw all our sideboard cards. Don't let it get under your skin, just know that it's a massive uphill battle against these decks. Blood Moon is probably our best option against both, unless we want to run the Fulminator Mage/Surgical Extraction set, but none of those are effective without early/consistent pressure. Ceremonious Rejection is bad because Eldrazi plays Cavern of Souls and will just laugh at that card. Timely Countersquall and early Mana Leaks on Tron's setup pieces can help (like counter their sylvan scrying or ancient stirrings). I can say one of my best matches against Tron involved an early Surgical Extraction targeting Ancient Stirrings and then smashing with Tasigur while he spun his wheels looking for lands and threats. But in the end, it's like a 30/70 matchup. It's very likely you will lose, so if it does happen, just try not to let it tilt you for the next round.
Thank you very much for the response. You're right ceremonious rejection isn't great thanks to cavern. Fortunately, I think at least one of the decks at my shop only runs 1 or maybe 2. I almost want to just drop the round when I'm paired against it. I once beat a very very good player on tron 3 out of 5 matches before modern night started by being super aggressive, however I've never even gotten to breathe against eldrazi tron. I really think eldrazi tron is even worse for us. One of these days when I make it to a real tournament I'll have to just cross my fingers I don't see eldrazi tron.
There's still a lot of work to be done to tuning the deck and I'm excited to try out different mainboard and sideboard configurations. Blood Moon is possible, as we run a high amount of basics and fetches for it to not hurt us too badly. The thing with Big Mana decks is that there's two ways to approach them. I feel that it's either apply pressure + counter back-up or disrupt their game plan and land a finisher (Tasigur, Delver, etc). Not sure which is the best approach, or some combination of both. I'm interested in cheap counters (Ceremonious Rejection) as well as big mana hate (Blood Moon, F-Mage, Molten Rain, Crumble to Dust). The issue I'm having the most is that Eldrazi and Tron require different approaches because Eldrazi can function relatively well against single-land destruction effects and can sometimes go way faster than you can land them. I'll go into the think tank the next few days to see how I can reconfigure our board to better handle the wide variety of big mana out there.
Thanks for checking out the videos, though! I'm constantly trying to improve the content from week to week and I'm getting much more comfortable with the commentary. Hopefully it shows!
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Check out some Magic Gameplay and Commentary videos here, including Modern Grixis, Jeskai, and Esper videos as well as some Standard and Drafts too: My YouTube Channel!
I'm loving your videos so far, no pyro in the newest set. How do you feel about them in the current list?
I'm not sure Young Pyromancer synergizes very well with high-casting cards like Cryptic Command. Against un-interactive decks, sure. But I think Young Pyromancer is definitely stronger backed up by cheaper counterspells like Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, and a higher density of 2-mana counters like Mana Leak, Remand, or Countersquall. With that said, I was talking about cutting down on some Cryptic Command in future lists, and we could see the deck move towards a more tempo oriented shell than a control shell, which means we'd cut some Cryptics, cut some lands, and add more threats and cheaper counterspells in their place. Like I've said before, there are lots of directions to take the deck. The idea was mostly a thought experiment to see if Delver of Secrets and Cryptic Command actually work well together (and it seems like they do!).
Very cool videos, that matches with Cryptic Delver against Living End were intense.
Those games were definitely the most intense of the series for sure. Thanks for watching!
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Not sure if this was discussed but...what do you guys think about Surgical Extraction in for the burn matchup. Imagine the scenario...you take burn from bolt, the extract all their bolts from the deck. Worth it? What is the typical SB tech vs burn nowadays? I have vampiric link for now.
Not sure if this was discussed but...what do you guys think about Surgical Extraction in for the burn matchup. Imagine the scenario...you take burn from bolt, the extract all their bolts from the deck. Worth it? What is the typical SB tech vs burn nowadays? I have vampiric link for now.
I don't dig it; if he doesn't have a Bolt in hand then it's card-disadvantageous. Bolt isn't a game-winner by itself and there's no guarantee he'll even draw another Bolt in a game. Moreover, he's got probably three play-sets of other three-damage spells and one set of four; one of which he'll likely draw in place of any missing Bolts.
The card-disadvantage penalty of Surgical Extraction is only worthwhile to take a combo win-condition in my view.
For Delver, I like Chandra, Torch of Defiance a lot more as a sideboard card than as a maindeck inclusion. But test away!
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Haha will do. Saw your post in the other thread. She intrigues me for the reasons you mentioned.
Hi I'm not doubting you but I couldn't find this list on mtggoldfish. Would you be able to post a link to the list? I'd like to see the other 5-0's for that day as well.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I enjoyed the Delvers a lot as they were an extra clock that helped in most of the matches. I didn't face any "hard" control decks though, and I imagine Delver is underwhelming in those matchups.
If you're interested in last week's videos:
Grixis Delver Pyromancer Modern Competitive League Playlist
Straight Modern Grixis Delver Playlist
And, if you're COMPLETELY behind, I've compiled all of my current videos from start to finish in a 16-video long playlist:
Complete Modern Grixis Playlist
I hate to say this part because it feels like a shameless plug, but feel free to like/subscribe/comment so I can bring you some more Grixis content in the future. MTGO ain't free!
It literally is grixis control with delvers instead of ancestral. The thing is, delver and ancestral shine in different match ups. It's a deck that plays its certain strengths. An example I mentioned before was would I rather t1 delver vs jund? I'd rather t1 vision.. What about t1 vision vs tron? Seems ok, but t1 delver is probably better. So really, the shell, including the mana base is grixis control, which has a much stronger late game, but with better closing ability, and t1 delver flip wins. Also, on the topic of vs control.. A lot of times the control opponent will keep in loads of removal after seeing a delver, but if you have them sided then you make a lot of their draws dead. Just an observation from people not knowing wth you're playing lol. I even had an opponent side in staticaster because he thought he was gonna see a young peez.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/574465#paper
Welcome to the realization of why this deck will never be tier 1!
I don't mean to sound like a downer, but Eldrazi and Tron are probably our worst of the worst matchups. They're extremely difficult and mostly miserable to play, even if we DO draw all our sideboard cards. Don't let it get under your skin, just know that it's a massive uphill battle against these decks. Blood Moon is probably our best option against both, unless we want to run the Fulminator Mage/Surgical Extraction set, but none of those are effective without early/consistent pressure. Ceremonious Rejection is bad because Eldrazi plays Cavern of Souls and will just laugh at that card. Timely Countersquall and early Mana Leaks on Tron's setup pieces can help (like counter their sylvan scrying or ancient stirrings). I can say one of my best matches against Tron involved an early Surgical Extraction targeting Ancient Stirrings and then smashing with Tasigur while he spun his wheels looking for lands and threats. But in the end, it's like a 30/70 matchup. It's very likely you will lose, so if it does happen, just try not to let it tilt you for the next round.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
All right, watched 'me all. Thanks for sharing, and congrats again on the finish!
I think this is a good way of approaching the meta with all the big mana going on. You need early pressure against those decks which means Control has a hard time, but Delver can sputter and die pretty easily if you can't win early (and the decks in question are very good at shutting you down). The Control shell packs just enough disruption to keep above water, and I'd be lying if I said AV doesn't sometimes pull you out of the fire even vs. Tron. But generally it feels to me like AV just isn't positioned well right now. It was a good inclusion when you were either going up against Midrange, Control, or creature-aggro where you could kill their threats and then coast off an AV refill, but it's just so hard to interact profitably with big mana without dedicating and drawing a whole slew of sideboard cards (most of which aren't even great gotchas).
On the list, I personally think you're a good candidate for Blood Moon. You have the clock to back it up, it keeps your Mana Leaks live vs. Tron, and it only really turns off Cryptic (or occasional Snap lines). Maybe that last one is too important, but it's one of the best ways we have of neutering our toughest matchups as long as we've got the clock to back it up. Kommand-Fulminator is pretty slick, but it didn't seem super relevant in your games.
I also agree with your assessment that 4 Cryptic may be too many. Maybe 3-1? I've been enamored with Leak and Snare lately (with 2 Squall 1 Dispel SB), so maybe it's just a question of how many counters total to run rather than the # of Cryptic.
Anyways, thanks again for sharing! This is a nice take on the deck, and decently positioned at the moment IMO. I'd like to see it catch on.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Thank you very much for the response. You're right ceremonious rejection isn't great thanks to cavern. Fortunately, I think at least one of the decks at my shop only runs 1 or maybe 2. I almost want to just drop the round when I'm paired against it. I once beat a very very good player on tron 3 out of 5 matches before modern night started by being super aggressive, however I've never even gotten to breathe against eldrazi tron. I really think eldrazi tron is even worse for us. One of these days when I make it to a real tournament I'll have to just cross my fingers I don't see eldrazi tron.
There it is! Thanks for the link, hammer0S.
@rogue_LOVE
There's still a lot of work to be done to tuning the deck and I'm excited to try out different mainboard and sideboard configurations. Blood Moon is possible, as we run a high amount of basics and fetches for it to not hurt us too badly. The thing with Big Mana decks is that there's two ways to approach them. I feel that it's either apply pressure + counter back-up or disrupt their game plan and land a finisher (Tasigur, Delver, etc). Not sure which is the best approach, or some combination of both. I'm interested in cheap counters (Ceremonious Rejection) as well as big mana hate (Blood Moon, F-Mage, Molten Rain, Crumble to Dust). The issue I'm having the most is that Eldrazi and Tron require different approaches because Eldrazi can function relatively well against single-land destruction effects and can sometimes go way faster than you can land them. I'll go into the think tank the next few days to see how I can reconfigure our board to better handle the wide variety of big mana out there.
Thanks for checking out the videos, though! I'm constantly trying to improve the content from week to week and I'm getting much more comfortable with the commentary. Hopefully it shows!
I'm not sure Young Pyromancer synergizes very well with high-casting cards like Cryptic Command. Against un-interactive decks, sure. But I think Young Pyromancer is definitely stronger backed up by cheaper counterspells like Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, and a higher density of 2-mana counters like Mana Leak, Remand, or Countersquall. With that said, I was talking about cutting down on some Cryptic Command in future lists, and we could see the deck move towards a more tempo oriented shell than a control shell, which means we'd cut some Cryptics, cut some lands, and add more threats and cheaper counterspells in their place. Like I've said before, there are lots of directions to take the deck. The idea was mostly a thought experiment to see if Delver of Secrets and Cryptic Command actually work well together (and it seems like they do!).
Those games were definitely the most intense of the series for sure. Thanks for watching!
I don't dig it; if he doesn't have a Bolt in hand then it's card-disadvantageous. Bolt isn't a game-winner by itself and there's no guarantee he'll even draw another Bolt in a game. Moreover, he's got probably three play-sets of other three-damage spells and one set of four; one of which he'll likely draw in place of any missing Bolts.
The card-disadvantage penalty of Surgical Extraction is only worthwhile to take a combo win-condition in my view.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn