For Tron - i haven't tested it enough yet, but i usually have some amount of Vandal Blast in my Sideboard to Attack expedition Maps and colored Mana sources or shatter a wurmcoil - and with that artifact hate my personal experience was, that fatal push is way better at dealing with wurmingcoil engine than terminate, simply based on efficiency when handling the tokens, as keeping mana for counterspells open was much easier with it - so i would actually board the terminates out (doesn't kill newlamog anyway) and keep fatal push alongside artifact hate. But this is testing, and i can't test enough for the sample size to be statistically significant. the matchup doens't feel significantly better and it doesn't feel worse this way.
Fatal Push cannot deal with Wurmcoil Engine - at all, much less way better than Terminate. Being more efficient at dealing with the tokens means nothing; no creature trades with Wurmcoil in Delver; what's going to remove Wurmcoil in the first place? Bolt-Snap-Bolt? Terminate is about as good as we've got. Artifact removal is better in the match-up perhaps than Terminate, but Push is pretty close to useless.
So CalebD has been playing remands over mana leaks. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
Traditional argument for mana leak is that it straight answers and we are a deck build on answers. Paying to mana to cycle a card and make them recast their 2 drop is not that exciting, and delaying a 3 or 4 drop isn't too huge of a deal in a deck without fast enough pressure or a combo kill. Mana leak is also better against burn, but for the rest of the tiny aggro deck match ups I don't think it matters as both cards are kinda bad
Argument for remand is that in the blue mirrors the remands are easily much much better. And in the tron/scape shift match ups the counterspells only buy a turn or two anyway, so remand drawing us into a bolt or a snap caster is better than not drawing a card. Remand is worse in the creature deck matchups, but we already have a lot of tools to deal with those decks anyway, with Lili being the main exception (but mana leak isn't too great at dealing with Lili anyway)
Thoughts? Cool tech? Caleb being a little too spicy? Something I'm missing?
So CalebD has been playing remands over mana leaks. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
Traditional argument for mana leak is that it straight answers and we are a deck build on answers. Paying to mana to cycle a card and make them recast their 2 drop is not that exciting, and delaying a 3 or 4 drop isn't too huge of a deal in a deck without fast enough pressure or a combo kill. Mana leak is also better against burn, but for the rest of the tiny aggro deck match ups I don't think it matters as both cards are kinda bad
Argument for remand is that in the blue mirrors the remands are easily much much better. And in the tron/scape shift match ups the counterspells only buy a turn or two anyway, so remand drawing us into a bolt or a snap caster is better than not drawing a card. Remand is worse in the creature deck matchups, but we already have a lot of tools to deal with those decks anyway, with Lili being the main exception (but mana leak isn't too great at dealing with Lili anyway)
Thoughts? Cool tech? Caleb being a little too spicy? Something I'm missing?
I've been playing Remands since as long as I've been playing Delver. I firmly stand by the opinion that drawing a card and gaining a turn is more valuable in a deck that is presenting pressure and a reasonable clock. Mana Leak becomes completely dead as the game goes on, whereas even in the worst case scenario, Remand will still draw you a card. Plus, there's the bonus trick of Remanding your own spell whenever relevant (a lot of people forget this one).
I think if you are trying to play a control role, Remand is terrible. But if you are presenting pressure with a Delver/Pyromancer/Tasigur, then the tempo gained by making them wait a turn or waste mana re-casting is totally worth it.
Maybe I don't pay enough attention to other peoples' lists, but Remand is nothing new. I ran 3x Remand when Probe was legal and now run 4x.
Went 2-0-1 at today's FNM. Took 3rd place with 22 players playing.
Round 1: RG Scapeshift // 2-0.
Game 1, I raced him with 2 Snaps + Tasigur on board.
Game 2, I Mana Leak his Titan that he fetched with Summoner's Pact. He puts Titan on top of his Pact. His next turn, he forgets to pay the Pact. It sucks but it's part of the game. :/
Round 2: Naya Zoo // 1-1.
A very good player and he was playing with the new Kird Ape from Aether Revolt with Deathtouch.
Lost game 1, he had the nut draw with BTE.
Won game 2, Bolt, Bolt, Magma Spray, Snap-Bolt...
Went to turns G3, couldn't beat him, he was at 1 life...
Round 3: Grixis Delver // 1-0.
Game 1, won the counter wars.
Game 2, we went to turns. On the last turn before time, he had Angler, one card in hand and 12 life. I was at 3 life, Snap on board and a couple of useless cards in my hand with Kolaghan's Command. On his last turn, he plays his last card: Terminate on my Snap. I go Kolaghan's Command, take back Snappy. It resolves. I have 3 mana left with 1 fetch. I go Snap and thought about casting Negate (the only way I could stop Terminate), but then I realized that I had no more basics to fetch with ! I thought I screwed up but then realized that I had Snap (that I cast) to block Angler anyways and ended up winning the game. I know even if I cracked the fetch it wouldn't have mattered but I was happy that I was aware of it. Everyday I learn more and more with this deck. Love it.
I might try a copy of Remand and add one Fulminator Mage in the side. There's a total of 4 Grixis Delver decks at my shop, which worries me a bit. I also need to learn to play faster in the control mirrors because always going to time is not fun. Anyways, it was a great night, lots of fun.
So CalebD has been playing remands over mana leaks. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
Traditional argument for mana leak is that it straight answers and we are a deck build on answers. Paying to mana to cycle a card and make them recast their 2 drop is not that exciting, and delaying a 3 or 4 drop isn't too huge of a deal in a deck without fast enough pressure or a combo kill. Mana leak is also better against burn, but for the rest of the tiny aggro deck match ups I don't think it matters as both cards are kinda bad
Argument for remand is that in the blue mirrors the remands are easily much much better. And in the tron/scape shift match ups the counterspells only buy a turn or two anyway, so remand drawing us into a bolt or a snap caster is better than not drawing a card. Remand is worse in the creature deck matchups, but we already have a lot of tools to deal with those decks anyway, with Lili being the main exception (but mana leak isn't too great at dealing with Lili anyway)
Thoughts? Cool tech? Caleb being a little too spicy? Something I'm missing?
I've been playing Remands since as long as I've been playing Delver. I firmly stand by the opinion that drawing a card and gaining a turn is more valuable in a deck that is presenting pressure and a reasonable clock. Mana Leak becomes completely dead as the game goes on, whereas even in the worst case scenario, Remand will still draw you a card. Plus, there's the bonus trick of Remanding your own spell whenever relevant (a lot of people forget this one).
I think if you are trying to play a control role, Remand is terrible. But if you are presenting pressure with a Delver/Pyromancer/Tasigur, then the tempo gained by making them wait a turn or waste mana re-casting is totally worth it.
Maybe I don't pay enough attention to other peoples' lists, but Remand is nothing new. I ran 3x Remand when Probe was legal and now run 4x.
I'm going to go ahead and second this. I'm a person who originally scoffed at using Remand in this deck (I know, shame on me! ), however after using it I'm definitely a believer.
The card draw function of Remand is really not to be understated, and the other important benefit of it is that you can play with 19 lands, whereas you can't do that with Mana Leak.
Grixis Delver is fundamentally an aggro/control deck (essentially a tempo deck with some minor differences) and Remand is a card only a deck like ours would use. Also, if Delve threats become more common due to Fatal Push, Remanding a Delve card in many cases is actually better than just Mana Leaking it.
Personally, I wouldn't play Remand in Ryan micro Overturf's list. His list is basically Grixis Control lite. The Kevin Jones and now Caleb Durward versions of the deck push the aggro aspect with Young Pyromancer. There, we can push the needle with Remand.
With a YP on the board, Remand is "Timewalk. Create a 1/1 Red Elemental." when you already have a 2/1 and likely other threats. Also, it's another card for Delve if it comes to that.
Also, Tasigur kills a typical Modern player in 4 turns (fetch/shock t1, maybe another fetch down the line) without any help.
Speaking of Caleb Durward, I really like his list. He also mains 2 Forked Bolt which ends up being additional reach vs Tron (you now have 16 points of burn maindeck) and also just really good for a cheap card. I'm at the point where I'm not sure that I want Electrolyze anywhere.
I have an excel document with the 50 matches I did with this deck since I bought it, probably tomorrow or monday I will do some analysis with the data and post it here. Some interesting results: I did not lose any match against EldraziTron (out of 4), the affinity matchup is worse than I expected (since it seems pretty even), and the burn matchup is better than I expected(I won 3 out of 3 against it)
I'm using 2 main Surgical Extraction main board replacing the two Gitaxian Probe. I can say that they are working beautifully.
When using the Surgical Extraction in the main board you can do the following:
1. Look at opponent's hand and library for information.
2. Disrupt opponent's strategies by removing all the copies of a key card from the game. Very effective if you're facing one trick pony decks. Also works well with Thoughtscour if you managed to mill a relevant card from opponent's graveyard.
3. You can immediately create a token from Young Pyromancer.
4. You can even remove fetchlands which can also disrupt opponent's manabase.
In line with have Surgical Extractions in the mainboard (2) and sideboard (2), I am using the following cards:
1. Mana Leak/Negate - You need to have the card be put into the graveyard in order to target it with Surgical Extraction.
2. Tectonic Edge/Ghost Quarter/Stone Rain - To deal with pesky non-basics and removing it from the game with Surgical
Extraction.
can i ask if anger of the gods as SB does well in this deck?
i don't have surgical and so am thinking of decent alternatives.
What are the repercussions of using anger of gods as SB instead of surgical?
can i ask if anger of the gods as SB does well in this deck?
i don't have surgical and so am thinking of decent alternatives.
What are the repercussions of using anger of gods as SB instead of surgical?
Anger of the Gods isn't a natural fit in the deck due to it's RR cost and the fact that it exiles Delver of Secrets, Young Pyromancer and Elemental tokens. If you're not playing YP, then it's a better fit.
Anger is a good tool for certain jobs; such as managing Dredge and some other go-wide creature strategies. If you find yourself in those match-ups, then Anger might be something you need. Engineered Explosives might be another such tool, but if you're looking at three-CMC cards, it's usually a two-turn deal with EE. EE also doesn't exile and you seem to be interested in the exile, so forget I mentioned EE.
Anger is very different from Surgical Extraction, but since you're talking about Anger as a replacement for SE, I'm guessing you want to exile creatures, so maybe it's the tool you need.
I used to run 2 Anger and 1 EE, and I switched the other way around a while ago. I find I don't bring in Anger as often, but I also feel like I am facing small creature decks less often. Killing your own stuff can suck, but it can also be game-breaking against decks like Dredge. I think a single in the side is fine. I can't think of a better sweeper to bring in because I think trying to reliably get 4 mana for Damnation is a bit optimistic for this deck. Explosives is great a lot of the times, but when you have awkward combinations of 0, 1, 2, and 3 cmc creatures, it feels real bad.
I could totally see using it as a budget replacement for EE, but I don't make any ties between Anger an Surgical. One sweeps the board, the other targets something specific already in the yard.
can i ask if anger of the gods as SB does well in this deck?
i don't have surgical and so am thinking of decent alternatives.
What are the repercussions of using anger of gods as SB instead of surgical?
Hi!
What are you looking to hate out?
Anger kills your own delvers, peezers, snaps, and cliques. We can survive with no board presence or just our delve threats, but as we are a threat light deck we prefer to keep our established pressure and find some other way to deal with sticky creatures. Also, 2 red can be a little bit tricky for our mana
Surgicals were necessary in the dredge metagame, so if you need a good amount of dredge hate I'd recommend surgical over anger
HOWEVER if what your looking for is just general exiling effects instead, the usual slot is 1-2 magma sprays. Gets rids of pesky voices and finks and is really easy to snap back. Still useful against dredge if there's a small dredge presence around, as you can get bloodghast to go away forever.
i think i am missing something anti graveyard i think, preferably anti dredge, am hoping the card is able to cover multiple kind of situations. And most importantly fits grix delv. Thank you
If i am to use ravenous trap is there any plus there vs surgical? Or is it all minus with ravenous trap?
i think i am missing something anti graveyard i think, preferably anti dredge, am hoping the card is able to cover multiple kind of situations. And most importantly fits grix delv. Thank you
If i am to use ravenous trap is there any plus there vs surgical? Or is it all minus with ravenous trap?
Ah okay gotcha
Ravenous trap is good versus dredge I think, it's just that it's not very good versus non dredge matchups. And you cant flash it back easily either, so I think surgical is better.
That being said, it might be fine these days to try good old rakdos charm for flexible GY hate. At the height of dredge it was too slow, but now it might be good enough. Worth trying out at least.
Played my first actual 4 round Modern event at my local shop last night! Wound up going 2-2 (with one of my "wins" being a bye) in a field that was surprisingly diverse. Before I built Delver my local meta was heavily aggro-oriented, with a few combo/control players trying to hang in there. I'm looking for any and all advice on my list/sideboard, as I'm feeling like I need to make some adjustments but haven't played the deck enough to know what those are. I've also recorded my sideboard decisions, as well as any general thoughts I had about each matchup/round.
The change I'm wanting to make mainboard is -1 Mana Leak, -1 Terminate; +2 Fatal Push. I'm not so sure about the sideboard, however. When I originally built the deck I built it more toward an aggro meta with a few control/combo decks. Now there's much more than that (Jund, Junk, U Tron, Gb Tron, etc), so general sideboard suggestions are welcomed.
Round 1: Emeria Control 1-2
I'd never played against Emeria Control before, so this was... interesting. Game 1 I managed to just land a super aggressive line of play and beat him down before he could do much of anything.
Game two I mulled down to five off a no-land 7 followed by an all-land 6. I kept a hand with 2 lands, Delver, Bolt, and Mana Leak. Flipped Delver and got some damage in, but a Path to Exile ended that. Never saw another threat for the rest of the game, got beat down by Court Hussar.
Game three I kept a good seven, managed to get some points of damage in, and was pretty far ahead of him. He landed a few removal spells to buy himself time, and then down came Sun Titan. I'd never played against this deck before now, and had only heard about it a few times in passing. So not knowing it ran Sun Titan, I'd sided out all my Terminates. Turns out a control deck with access to near infinite Sun Titans thanks to Emeria is pretty scary. Wound up getting beat down by that pretty quickly.
Round 2: BYE
Nothing to see here, folks. Watched some games, picked up some stuff for TES, did some trades.
Round 3: BW Tokens 1-2
Game one he was mana screwed, and I landed a turn two Tasigur. Beat him down pretty quickly.
Game two I mulled to four and kept a hand that, while bad, was probably better than any three I could have kept. I think it was 2x Land, Forked Bolt, Engineered Explosives. He beat me pretty handily that game. Game three I mulled to five and kept an average hand with something like 2 Land, EE, Delver, Serum Visions. This game was pretty grindy, but he managed to get there on the back of planeswalkers and Hero of Bladehold.
Round 4: Ad Nauseam - 2-1
Turn two Tasigur backed up by a bunch of countermagic, bolts and a timely Spell Snare on his turn two mana rock meant that I beat him down pretty quickly game 1.
IN: Same as Round 1
OUT: Same as Round 1
Game two I made the mistake of tapping out for a Brutality while he had some land that put discarded instants back on top of his deck. Untapped and killed me. Game three was pretty grindy, but I managed to get there through a Leyline of Sanctity. Surgical extraction on a SSG that was pitched to K-Command put him on the Lab Maniac plan, and he couldn't back that up when he attempted to play it.
Overall I had a good time last night. I know I wasn't playing as optimally as I could have, but I'm still learning the deck so I figure I'll get there eventually.
Fatal Push cannot deal with Wurmcoil Engine - at all, much less way better than Terminate. Being more efficient at dealing with the tokens means nothing; no creature trades with Wurmcoil in Delver; what's going to remove Wurmcoil in the first place? Bolt-Snap-Bolt? Terminate is about as good as we've got. Artifact removal is better in the match-up perhaps than Terminate, but Push is pretty close to useless.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Traditional argument for mana leak is that it straight answers and we are a deck build on answers. Paying to mana to cycle a card and make them recast their 2 drop is not that exciting, and delaying a 3 or 4 drop isn't too huge of a deal in a deck without fast enough pressure or a combo kill. Mana leak is also better against burn, but for the rest of the tiny aggro deck match ups I don't think it matters as both cards are kinda bad
Argument for remand is that in the blue mirrors the remands are easily much much better. And in the tron/scape shift match ups the counterspells only buy a turn or two anyway, so remand drawing us into a bolt or a snap caster is better than not drawing a card. Remand is worse in the creature deck matchups, but we already have a lot of tools to deal with those decks anyway, with Lili being the main exception (but mana leak isn't too great at dealing with Lili anyway)
Thoughts? Cool tech? Caleb being a little too spicy? Something I'm missing?
I've been playing Remands since as long as I've been playing Delver. I firmly stand by the opinion that drawing a card and gaining a turn is more valuable in a deck that is presenting pressure and a reasonable clock. Mana Leak becomes completely dead as the game goes on, whereas even in the worst case scenario, Remand will still draw you a card. Plus, there's the bonus trick of Remanding your own spell whenever relevant (a lot of people forget this one).
I think if you are trying to play a control role, Remand is terrible. But if you are presenting pressure with a Delver/Pyromancer/Tasigur, then the tempo gained by making them wait a turn or waste mana re-casting is totally worth it.
Maybe I don't pay enough attention to other peoples' lists, but Remand is nothing new. I ran 3x Remand when Probe was legal and now run 4x.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
RBGW Suicide Zoo
Legacy
RUG Canadian Threshold
decklist
Round 1: RG Scapeshift // 2-0.
Game 1, I raced him with 2 Snaps + Tasigur on board.
Game 2, I Mana Leak his Titan that he fetched with Summoner's Pact. He puts Titan on top of his Pact. His next turn, he forgets to pay the Pact. It sucks but it's part of the game. :/
Round 2: Naya Zoo // 1-1.
A very good player and he was playing with the new Kird Ape from Aether Revolt with Deathtouch.
Lost game 1, he had the nut draw with BTE.
Won game 2, Bolt, Bolt, Magma Spray, Snap-Bolt...
Went to turns G3, couldn't beat him, he was at 1 life...
Round 3: Grixis Delver // 1-0.
Game 1, won the counter wars.
Game 2, we went to turns. On the last turn before time, he had Angler, one card in hand and 12 life. I was at 3 life, Snap on board and a couple of useless cards in my hand with Kolaghan's Command. On his last turn, he plays his last card: Terminate on my Snap. I go Kolaghan's Command, take back Snappy. It resolves. I have 3 mana left with 1 fetch. I go Snap and thought about casting Negate (the only way I could stop Terminate), but then I realized that I had no more basics to fetch with ! I thought I screwed up but then realized that I had Snap (that I cast) to block Angler anyways and ended up winning the game. I know even if I cracked the fetch it wouldn't have mattered but I was happy that I was aware of it. Everyday I learn more and more with this deck. Love it.
3x Bloodstained Mire
2x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
2x Spirebluff Canal
2x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
4x Serum Visions
1x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Mana Leak
1x Murderous Cut
4x Spell Snare
3x Terminate
4x Thought Scour
4x Delver of Secrets Flip
1x Gurmag Angler
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Young Pyromancer
1x Countersquall
1x Desolate Lighthouse
2x Dispel
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Magma Spray
1x Negate
2x Painful Truths
2x Rakdos Charm
1x Vandalblast
Tapped out link: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/03-01-17-JHp-grixis-delver/
Went home with 30$ in store credit
I might try a copy of Remand and add one Fulminator Mage in the side. There's a total of 4 Grixis Delver decks at my shop, which worries me a bit. I also need to learn to play faster in the control mirrors because always going to time is not fun. Anyways, it was a great night, lots of fun.
I'm going to go ahead and second this. I'm a person who originally scoffed at using Remand in this deck (I know, shame on me! ), however after using it I'm definitely a believer.
The card draw function of Remand is really not to be understated, and the other important benefit of it is that you can play with 19 lands, whereas you can't do that with Mana Leak.
Grixis Delver is fundamentally an aggro/control deck (essentially a tempo deck with some minor differences) and Remand is a card only a deck like ours would use. Also, if Delve threats become more common due to Fatal Push, Remanding a Delve card in many cases is actually better than just Mana Leaking it.
Personally, I wouldn't play Remand in Ryan micro Overturf's list. His list is basically Grixis Control lite. The Kevin Jones and now Caleb Durward versions of the deck push the aggro aspect with Young Pyromancer. There, we can push the needle with Remand.
With a YP on the board, Remand is "Timewalk. Create a 1/1 Red Elemental." when you already have a 2/1 and likely other threats. Also, it's another card for Delve if it comes to that.
Also, Tasigur kills a typical Modern player in 4 turns (fetch/shock t1, maybe another fetch down the line) without any help.
Speaking of Caleb Durward, I really like his list. He also mains 2 Forked Bolt which ends up being additional reach vs Tron (you now have 16 points of burn maindeck) and also just really good for a cheap card. I'm at the point where I'm not sure that I want Electrolyze anywhere.
I posted it a few pages behind. I cut the Brutality MD for a Electrolyze, and did 2 or 3 changes changes in the sideboard.
RBGW Suicide Zoo
Legacy
RUG Canadian Threshold
When using the Surgical Extraction in the main board you can do the following:
1. Look at opponent's hand and library for information.
2. Disrupt opponent's strategies by removing all the copies of a key card from the game. Very effective if you're facing one trick pony decks. Also works well with Thoughtscour if you managed to mill a relevant card from opponent's graveyard.
3. You can immediately create a token from Young Pyromancer.
4. You can even remove fetchlands which can also disrupt opponent's manabase.
In line with have Surgical Extractions in the mainboard (2) and sideboard (2), I am using the following cards:
1. Mana Leak/Negate - You need to have the card be put into the graveyard in order to target it with Surgical Extraction.
2. Tectonic Edge/Ghost Quarter/Stone Rain - To deal with pesky non-basics and removing it from the game with Surgical
Extraction.
Try it and you will be surprised. :-D
i don't have surgical and so am thinking of decent alternatives.
What are the repercussions of using anger of gods as SB instead of surgical?
Anger of the Gods isn't a natural fit in the deck due to it's RR cost and the fact that it exiles Delver of Secrets, Young Pyromancer and Elemental tokens. If you're not playing YP, then it's a better fit.
Anger is a good tool for certain jobs; such as managing Dredge and some other go-wide creature strategies. If you find yourself in those match-ups, then Anger might be something you need. Engineered Explosives might be another such tool, but if you're looking at three-CMC cards, it's usually a two-turn deal with EE. EE also doesn't exile and you seem to be interested in the exile, so forget I mentioned EE.
Anger is very different from Surgical Extraction, but since you're talking about Anger as a replacement for SE, I'm guessing you want to exile creatures, so maybe it's the tool you need.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I could totally see using it as a budget replacement for EE, but I don't make any ties between Anger an Surgical. One sweeps the board, the other targets something specific already in the yard.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Hi!
What are you looking to hate out?
Anger kills your own delvers, peezers, snaps, and cliques. We can survive with no board presence or just our delve threats, but as we are a threat light deck we prefer to keep our established pressure and find some other way to deal with sticky creatures. Also, 2 red can be a little bit tricky for our mana
Surgicals were necessary in the dredge metagame, so if you need a good amount of dredge hate I'd recommend surgical over anger
HOWEVER if what your looking for is just general exiling effects instead, the usual slot is 1-2 magma sprays. Gets rids of pesky voices and finks and is really easy to snap back. Still useful against dredge if there's a small dredge presence around, as you can get bloodghast to go away forever.
If i am to use ravenous trap is there any plus there vs surgical? Or is it all minus with ravenous trap?
Ah okay gotcha
Ravenous trap is good versus dredge I think, it's just that it's not very good versus non dredge matchups. And you cant flash it back easily either, so I think surgical is better.
That being said, it might be fine these days to try good old rakdos charm for flexible GY hate. At the height of dredge it was too slow, but now it might be good enough. Worth trying out at least.
The change I'm wanting to make mainboard is -1 Mana Leak, -1 Terminate; +2 Fatal Push. I'm not so sure about the sideboard, however. When I originally built the deck I built it more toward an aggro meta with a few control/combo decks. Now there's much more than that (Jund, Junk, U Tron, Gb Tron, etc), so general sideboard suggestions are welcomed.
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Spirebluff Canal
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Young Pyromancer
1 Gurmag Angler
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Thought Scour
3 Spell Snare
3 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Electrolyze
Sorcery
1 Collective Brutality
4 Serum Visions
1x Collective Brutality
2x Countersquall
1x Deathmark
2x Dispel
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Forked Bolt
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Magma Spray
2x Surgical Extraction
Round 1: Emeria Control 1-2
I'd never played against Emeria Control before, so this was... interesting. Game 1 I managed to just land a super aggressive line of play and beat him down before he could do much of anything.
IN: 2 Countersquall, 2 Dispel, 2 Surgical Extraction
OUT: 4 Terminate, 1 Mana Leak, 1 Thought Scour
Game two I mulled down to five off a no-land 7 followed by an all-land 6. I kept a hand with 2 lands, Delver, Bolt, and Mana Leak. Flipped Delver and got some damage in, but a Path to Exile ended that. Never saw another threat for the rest of the game, got beat down by Court Hussar.
Game three I kept a good seven, managed to get some points of damage in, and was pretty far ahead of him. He landed a few removal spells to buy himself time, and then down came Sun Titan. I'd never played against this deck before now, and had only heard about it a few times in passing. So not knowing it ran Sun Titan, I'd sided out all my Terminates. Turns out a control deck with access to near infinite Sun Titans thanks to Emeria is pretty scary. Wound up getting beat down by that pretty quickly.
Round 2: BYE
Nothing to see here, folks. Watched some games, picked up some stuff for TES, did some trades.
Round 3: BW Tokens 1-2
Game one he was mana screwed, and I landed a turn two Tasigur. Beat him down pretty quickly.
IN: 2 Engineered Explosives, 2 Forked Bolt, 1 Izzet Staticaster'
OUT: 1 Mana Leak, 1 Terminate, 1 Thought Scour, 1 Collective Brutality, 1 Kolaghan's Command
Game two I mulled to four and kept a hand that, while bad, was probably better than any three I could have kept. I think it was 2x Land, Forked Bolt, Engineered Explosives. He beat me pretty handily that game. Game three I mulled to five and kept an average hand with something like 2 Land, EE, Delver, Serum Visions. This game was pretty grindy, but he managed to get there on the back of planeswalkers and Hero of Bladehold.
Round 4: Ad Nauseam - 2-1
Turn two Tasigur backed up by a bunch of countermagic, bolts and a timely Spell Snare on his turn two mana rock meant that I beat him down pretty quickly game 1.
IN: Same as Round 1
OUT: Same as Round 1
Game two I made the mistake of tapping out for a Brutality while he had some land that put discarded instants back on top of his deck. Untapped and killed me. Game three was pretty grindy, but I managed to get there through a Leyline of Sanctity. Surgical extraction on a SSG that was pitched to K-Command put him on the Lab Maniac plan, and he couldn't back that up when he attempted to play it.
Overall I had a good time last night. I know I wasn't playing as optimally as I could have, but I'm still learning the deck so I figure I'll get there eventually.
UBRGDredge
Under Construction
WUBAd Nauseam
Unconventional decklist. Seems like Goryo's Vengeance is on the rise.
weird decklist
Outside of the Lily in the main-deck and the GDD in the side-board it looks fairly main-stream to me. What am I missing?
I don't dig the 4-1 Fatal Push-Terminate split, but different strokes, I guess.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn