How do you guys think about this setup in general?
Been on R.O. style for a few weeks now in between Monkey Grow and I think cut is a trap for this style. Theoretically it should gain you tempo by allowing you to kill two things cheaply, earlier than terminate. However in testing against the fast decks it does that at the expense of slowing down Tasigur too much. Trading resources is key to grinding them out, and holding the ground is th linchpin. Overall it feels like it just pressures the yard too much early. I went back to 4 terminate and only committing Tasigur when I can also hold manna for something else. That seems to work better.
I think that's probably correct, but in fairness, he's just waiting for Fatal Push to drop to replace Murderous Cut.
Anger will likely be a card we need to run in the near future to deal with all the Kitchen Finks and Lingering Souls people are going to be playing now that Fatal Push is a card.
Hey everyone! I've been reading this thread for a while and decided to join in!
I went to my first fnm last night, which was my first time ever playing magic period. I expected to get wrecked (which is what happened), but everyone was so welcoming and overall I had a blast! Even when I lost I had a smile on my face just to see what the opponenet's decks did. And everyone was helpful when I inevitably did a couple silly things. So I guess here's a quick report + my Deck List looking for some help.
Round 1 - Versus some artifact / token / Tezzeret deck
Game 1 had to play around chalice of the void and a bunch of tokens and lost. Game 2 I sided in vandalblast and izzet staticaster and had a closer match but still ended up losing after he had a turn 2 Tezzeret on the field IIRC.
Round 2 - Versus Naya Burn
Game 1 I was really happy with how I played, and it showed me how versatile the deck is. Was down to 1 life and finished him off with a Snapcaster attack and lightning bolt in hand. Game 2 he won. Game 3 I mulliganed to 6 and foolishly kept it with no lands. Didn't draw a land the entire game lol. Learned a lesson on hands to keep and those not to.
Round 3 - Versus some mill deck
Game 1 he milled me pretty good. A series of snap-bolts got him down to 1, but then locked me up so I couldn't attack. Eventually milled me. Game 2 he exiled my snappys and it ended up going to turns. I was unaware of the turns rules and was told after it would've been a draw the next turn, but I scooped with 2 cards left in my library.
Round 4 - Bye
Pretty much expected to lose but I still had fun and am excited to learn how to pilot this deck better!
I had 3 gitaxian probe but I decided not to play them just to get a feel for how it would be once the ban takes its place. My sideboard is also incomplete. There's currently 2 Countersquall, an Izzet Staticaster, Vandalblast, Magma Spray, 2 Dispel, and maybe a couple others I'm forgetting. Will probably add 2 Surgical Extraction and maybe Blood Moons or Molten Rain.
Once Fatal Push is released I think I will run 2 of those as well as adding another Spirebluff Canal. I also may want to toy around with Remand and Spell Pierce. Any ideas on what to drop from my list to make room? Also any 'staple' sideboard cards I should also include?
Hey everyone! I've been reading this thread for a while and decided to join in!
I went to my first fnm last night, which was my first time ever playing magic period. I expected to get wrecked (which is what happened), but everyone was so welcoming and overall I had a blast! Even when I lost I had a smile on my face just to see what the opponenet's decks did. And everyone was helpful when I inevitably did a couple silly things. So I guess here's a quick report + my Deck List looking for some help.
Round 1 - Versus some artifact / token / Tezzeret deck
Game 1 had to play around chalice of the void and a bunch of tokens and lost. Game 2 I sided in vandalblast and izzet staticaster and had a closer match but still ended up losing after he had a turn 2 Tezzeret on the field IIRC.
Round 2 - Versus Naya Burn
Game 1 I was really happy with how I played, and it showed me how versatile the deck is. Was down to 1 life and finished him off with a Snapcaster attack and lightning bolt in hand. Game 2 he won. Game 3 I mulliganed to 6 and foolishly kept it with no lands. Didn't draw a land the entire game lol. Learned a lesson on hands to keep and those not to.
Round 3 - Versus some mill deck
Game 1 he milled me pretty good. A series of snap-bolts got him down to 1, but then locked me up so I couldn't attack. Eventually milled me. Game 2 he exiled my snappys and it ended up going to turns. I was unaware of the turns rules and was told after it would've been a draw the next turn, but I scooped with 2 cards left in my library.
Round 4 - Bye
Pretty much expected to lose but I still had fun and am excited to learn how to pilot this deck better!
I had 3 gitaxian probe but I decided not to play them just to get a feel for how it would be once the ban takes its place. My sideboard is also incomplete. There's currently 2 Countersquall, an Izzet Staticaster, Vandalblast, Magma Spray, 2 Dispel, and maybe a couple others I'm forgetting. Will probably add 2 Surgical Extraction and maybe Blood Moons or Molten Rain.
Once Fatal Push is released I think I will run 2 of those as well as adding another Spirebluff Canal. I also may want to toy around with Remand and Spell Pierce. Any ideas on what to drop from my list to make room? Also any 'staple' sideboard cards I should also include?
Thanks in advance!
Welcome to the game, glad you had a blast playing! You'll lose a lot at first, especially with this deck, but you'll only get better as time goes on. As for the sideboard, I would suggest keeping your eyes out at FNM to see what decks are popular, that will give you an idea for some sideboard options. Also check what other people are running in winning lists to get ideas for your own sideboard.
Cards like Izzet Staticaster and Magma Spray are much better at dealing with those without killing your own creatures.
Just a fair warning for people who don't play with izzet static caster that much, she can kill your own creatures in the mirror, she kills *all* creatures with the same name. But yeah, I do like staticcaster and magma spray over anger of the gods.
In a legal Fatal Push scenario, what do you guys think of this list? Big disclaimer, I know that the manabase would likely be better off with more fetch lands and an extra Watery Grave. I'm unsure about the 2/2 split between Fatal Push and Terminate. I've been testing the two Cliques and I really like seeing them regularly. Also, I really, really, really hate Tron. It often feels like a sideboard war, counter spells only go as far as Ulamogs and World Breakers on the stack, and a lot of things must line up to secure a win. Are there any solid solutions for this matchup?
Also, I really, really, really hate Tron. It often feels like a sideboard war, counter spells only go as far as Ulamogs and World Breakers on the stack, and a lot of things must line up to secure a win. Are there any solid solutions for this matchup?
A fast clock: flipped Delver, turn 2 Tasigur, Young Pyromancer, or a turn 3 Blood Moon. Tron is an awful matchup and it feels like killing them quickly the only way to win if they don't stumble or mulligan.
Young Pyromancer is the win con we need, not the win con we deserve. So I'd say yes. Although Clique can work as well depending on what decks you're expecting to go up against, and I like the idea of experimenting with a Tar Pit or two as a backup (even if CIP tapped is rough).
Counterspell suite is pretty much up to you, IMO. I've found Remand works best when you have a really fast clock or want to cast lots of cantrips. I don't think Delver quite fits those criteria (we're often a little more on the grindy side), but really I'd say it's a matter of taste. Personally, I usually run a split of Remand and Leak (plus Snare of course), with Dispel and usually a couple Negate or Countersquall in the board.
What makes you say that? Just curious. Although I should note that the way decks are tiered on MTGsalvation is by their representation in the metagame.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
I dumped Young Pyromancer back when Ryan Overturf's lists became popular and have never regretted it.
I still main-deck two copies of Remand; it's sometimes fantastic - against Living End, for example, and it's usually okay. I have no plans to drop them.
Hey all, what do y'all think about the effectiveness of spell snare in the future? Push now takes care of the two drop creatures and spell snare is ineffective against opposing pushes. Do you think spell pierce may become the better choice? I'm planning to run the following MB counter suite:
3x Mana Leak
1x Spell Snare
1x Spell Pierce
1x Countersquall
And then I'll massage those numbers as I test. I like having at least one late game hard counted to hit with snap like countersquall or maybe even deprive. I like the idea of protecting drivers with pierce. I've also decided to ditch the YP's and probes for a 9th fetch, 2 push, a third leak, a second MB collective brutality, and a clique.
YP is essential for closing out games that we struggle with. It is a huge, high-value threat that can take over a game on its own, create piles of dispensable blockers, and if he does die, that draws removal away from our other threats, especially other fragile ones like Delver himself and Clique in the builds that run that.
I think Remand is awesome. With Gitaxian Probe banned, I think the card draw off Remand is even more beneficial. In my early post-Probe build, I have actually upped my Remand count to a full 4. But Remand is only good in aggressive builds, looking to close out games in a reasonable time (like those running Pyromancer). The tempo loss for the opponent is extra bad when they're also getting hit for damage every turn by a Delver/Tasigur/YP/Tokens.
I do not think whatsoever that Ryan Overturf's build of Delver is the correct way to go. I think the deck needs to either commit to be an aggressive tempo deck or play 22+ lands, main deck Ancestral Vision, and 4 Cryptic Command. Playing the middle ground leads to higher likelihood of drawing the wrong cards against decks we should have positive matchups against while lacking the closing speed necessary to shore up the bad big mana deck matchups. It's not super great at being aggressive and it's not super great at being a control deck. It's kind of a worse version of both. I think playing either an aggressive Delver build or a full Control build should be a meta call. Going down the middle may be easier in terms of deck choice (and believe me, I did that for months), but it does not lead to more success. Whether that will still be the case in the post-GP/GGT-ban meta remains to be seen, but if the big mana decks become more prevalent due to a reduction in fast small creature decks, then an aggressive Delver build would likely be the best route to go.
So what does anyone think of having 1 terminate main and a full set of fatal push? The other terminate could be in the sideboard for the few decks with really big guys and we could play 9 or 10 fetches to up revolt consistency. Perhaps I'm a little too excited for fatal push, but figured this was decent food for though
Remand vs mana leak, Maindeck discard spells, going hard-control, etc. All of these questions have been discussed many times in this thread already, guys.
Remand vs mana leak, Maindeck discard spells, going hard-control, etc. All of these questions have been discussed many times in this thread already, guys.
Yes, but at different times, pre-ban, and metas change. Sometimes discard is better than control is better than tempo etc. So a discussion on this 6 months ago doesn't necessarily apply now. And people don't scroll and read through dozens of pages these days.
I've been wondering about YP a lot myself. I've noticed it's a bad card in certain match-ups, yet steals the game entirely in others. Perhaps it should be consider more of a sideboard card?
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I think that's probably correct, but in fairness, he's just waiting for Fatal Push to drop to replace Murderous Cut.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I don't think Anger of the Gods is a good choice in Delver. It is card for control based decks.
URBURB
I went to my first fnm last night, which was my first time ever playing magic period. I expected to get wrecked (which is what happened), but everyone was so welcoming and overall I had a blast! Even when I lost I had a smile on my face just to see what the opponenet's decks did. And everyone was helpful when I inevitably did a couple silly things. So I guess here's a quick report + my Deck List looking for some help.
Round 1 - Versus some artifact / token / Tezzeret deck
Game 1 had to play around chalice of the void and a bunch of tokens and lost. Game 2 I sided in vandalblast and izzet staticaster and had a closer match but still ended up losing after he had a turn 2 Tezzeret on the field IIRC.
Round 2 - Versus Naya Burn
Game 1 I was really happy with how I played, and it showed me how versatile the deck is. Was down to 1 life and finished him off with a Snapcaster attack and lightning bolt in hand. Game 2 he won. Game 3 I mulliganed to 6 and foolishly kept it with no lands. Didn't draw a land the entire game lol. Learned a lesson on hands to keep and those not to.
Round 3 - Versus some mill deck
Game 1 he milled me pretty good. A series of snap-bolts got him down to 1, but then locked me up so I couldn't attack. Eventually milled me. Game 2 he exiled my snappys and it ended up going to turns. I was unaware of the turns rules and was told after it would've been a draw the next turn, but I scooped with 2 cards left in my library.
Round 4 - Bye
Pretty much expected to lose but I still had fun and am excited to learn how to pilot this deck better!
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Tasigur
1 Gurmag Angler
2 Young Pyromancer
Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Mana Leak
3 Spell Snare
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan’s Command
1 Electrolyze
1 Collective Brutality
1 Dismember
1 Murderous Cut
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Flooded Strand
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Swamp
2 Island
1 Mountain
I had 3 gitaxian probe but I decided not to play them just to get a feel for how it would be once the ban takes its place. My sideboard is also incomplete. There's currently 2 Countersquall, an Izzet Staticaster, Vandalblast, Magma Spray, 2 Dispel, and maybe a couple others I'm forgetting. Will probably add 2 Surgical Extraction and maybe Blood Moons or Molten Rain.
Once Fatal Push is released I think I will run 2 of those as well as adding another Spirebluff Canal. I also may want to toy around with Remand and Spell Pierce. Any ideas on what to drop from my list to make room? Also any 'staple' sideboard cards I should also include?
Thanks in advance!
Welcome to the game, glad you had a blast playing! You'll lose a lot at first, especially with this deck, but you'll only get better as time goes on. As for the sideboard, I would suggest keeping your eyes out at FNM to see what decks are popular, that will give you an idea for some sideboard options. Also check what other people are running in winning lists to get ideas for your own sideboard.
Just a fair warning for people who don't play with izzet static caster that much, she can kill your own creatures in the mirror, she kills *all* creatures with the same name. But yeah, I do like staticcaster and magma spray over anger of the gods.
In a legal Fatal Push scenario, what do you guys think of this list? Big disclaimer, I know that the manabase would likely be better off with more fetch lands and an extra Watery Grave. I'm unsure about the 2/2 split between Fatal Push and Terminate. I've been testing the two Cliques and I really like seeing them regularly. Also, I really, really, really hate Tron. It often feels like a sideboard war, counter spells only go as far as Ulamogs and World Breakers on the stack, and a lot of things must line up to secure a win. Are there any solid solutions for this matchup?
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
3 Spirebluff Canal
1 Darkslick Shores
Creatures (13)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
3 Mana Leak
3 Spell Snare
2 Remand
2 Kolaghan's Command
Sorceries (5)
4 Serum Visions
1 Collective Brutality
2 Countersquall
2 Dispel
2 Magma Spray
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Collective Brutality
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Surgical Extraction
I appreciate your comments and suggestions.
BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH:
UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
A fast clock: flipped Delver, turn 2 Tasigur, Young Pyromancer, or a turn 3 Blood Moon. Tron is an awful matchup and it feels like killing them quickly the only way to win if they don't stumble or mulligan.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Young Pyromancer is the win con we need, not the win con we deserve. So I'd say yes. Although Clique can work as well depending on what decks you're expecting to go up against, and I like the idea of experimenting with a Tar Pit or two as a backup (even if CIP tapped is rough).
Counterspell suite is pretty much up to you, IMO. I've found Remand works best when you have a really fast clock or want to cast lots of cantrips. I don't think Delver quite fits those criteria (we're often a little more on the grindy side), but really I'd say it's a matter of taste. Personally, I usually run a split of Remand and Leak (plus Snare of course), with Dispel and usually a couple Negate or Countersquall in the board.
What makes you say that? Just curious. Although I should note that the way decks are tiered on MTGsalvation is by their representation in the metagame.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
I dumped Young Pyromancer back when Ryan Overturf's lists became popular and have never regretted it.
I still main-deck two copies of Remand; it's sometimes fantastic - against Living End, for example, and it's usually okay. I have no plans to drop them.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
3x Mana Leak
1x Spell Snare
1x Spell Pierce
1x Countersquall
And then I'll massage those numbers as I test. I like having at least one late game hard counted to hit with snap like countersquall or maybe even deprive. I like the idea of protecting drivers with pierce. I've also decided to ditch the YP's and probes for a 9th fetch, 2 push, a third leak, a second MB collective brutality, and a clique.
URBURB
Yes and Yes to both.
YP is essential for closing out games that we struggle with. It is a huge, high-value threat that can take over a game on its own, create piles of dispensable blockers, and if he does die, that draws removal away from our other threats, especially other fragile ones like Delver himself and Clique in the builds that run that.
I think Remand is awesome. With Gitaxian Probe banned, I think the card draw off Remand is even more beneficial. In my early post-Probe build, I have actually upped my Remand count to a full 4. But Remand is only good in aggressive builds, looking to close out games in a reasonable time (like those running Pyromancer). The tempo loss for the opponent is extra bad when they're also getting hit for damage every turn by a Delver/Tasigur/YP/Tokens.
I do not think whatsoever that Ryan Overturf's build of Delver is the correct way to go. I think the deck needs to either commit to be an aggressive tempo deck or play 22+ lands, main deck Ancestral Vision, and 4 Cryptic Command. Playing the middle ground leads to higher likelihood of drawing the wrong cards against decks we should have positive matchups against while lacking the closing speed necessary to shore up the bad big mana deck matchups. It's not super great at being aggressive and it's not super great at being a control deck. It's kind of a worse version of both. I think playing either an aggressive Delver build or a full Control build should be a meta call. Going down the middle may be easier in terms of deck choice (and believe me, I did that for months), but it does not lead to more success. Whether that will still be the case in the post-GP/GGT-ban meta remains to be seen, but if the big mana decks become more prevalent due to a reduction in fast small creature decks, then an aggressive Delver build would likely be the best route to go.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
G1: 2-0
G2: 2-1
Fatal Push is the real deal guys against BGx. Such a good tempo card. Game 1, my opponent couldn't even play his Push on my Tasigur!
Obviously, both players was salty and rude after the game...
Yes, but at different times, pre-ban, and metas change. Sometimes discard is better than control is better than tempo etc. So a discussion on this 6 months ago doesn't necessarily apply now. And people don't scroll and read through dozens of pages these days.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
Congratulations, buddy ^^