Personally,I've loved the clique. Taking pyro out of your deck allows you to maximize your business spells. I'm trying to decide whether lavamancer should replace the angler to give the deck some additional reach. I've been impressed with cut, but unimpressed with angler.
Basically Burkhart's Control List with Delver instead of AV and Inquisition instead of some snares and squalls. Overall, i don't like the discard and high numbers of K-Commands but Cryptic command seems like a neat card to try out in the more controling shell.
I saw that. Seems interesting. In theory this deck wants to trade mana not cards, but has anyone actually tested iok or thought seize in a current shell?
Basically Burkhart's Control List with Delver instead of AV and Inquisition instead of some snares and squalls. Overall, i don't like the discard and high numbers of K-Commands but Cryptic command seems like a neat card to try out in the more controling shell.
I saw that. Seems interesting. In theory this deck wants to trade mana not cards, but has anyone actually tested iok or thought seize in a current shell?
I run a Thoughtseize in the sideboard currently. I've been thinking about cutting it, not a big fan tbh. Paying mana to take a card they have invested nothing in is not really where we want to be
Yahenni's Expertise
2BB Sorcery (Rare)
All creatures get -3/-3 until end of turn.
You may cast a card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your hand without paying its mana cost.
----------------------
Although I don't think this is a card we're looking for because of the CMC, still fun to cast it with AV (you can cast AV for free with this).
Turn 1 delver. Lol.
Turn 2 flip.
Save fetch for delver scry.
Don't Scour your scry.
Points in the game when you become the beat down.
Knowing my deck inside out makes it hard to play against it, as opposed to just knowing the game in general.
Claim your card with snap before scavenging ooze resolves.
Delve instantly with murderous cut vs goyf.
Watch out for the simian spirit mana leak bait.
Don't be scared to delve some good cards, especially vs RIP.
Sometimes don't delve relevant cards and wait.
Seems basic enough. If I could sum up my mentality with this deck it would be like, kill you now, please?
Anyone else?
What are people's thoughts on putting 2 LOTV in here?
Going to playtest it out tomorrow.
As Rothgar noted, Liliana, the Last Hope is a much better card for the deck. I've even tested with having one maindeck instead of the Gurmag Angler, but the double black can prove to be an issue that early on so you're going to want more black sources. She is very good in the deck though - able to kill off Lingering Souls tokens against Abzan (a big deal), or any other X/1s. The -2 is super good too, not only for Delve but for recurring Snapcaster Mages. I think trying out 2 could be neat, but you'll want to cut an Electrolyze or something since the deck doesn't want a lot of expensive cards.
Yahenni's Expertise into Ancestral Vision or Kommand sounds hilarious, I might switch out my Painful Truths and Anger of the Gods from my sideboard to playtest it "giggles". I'm also very interested in the mention of Liliana, the Last Hope, other than the advantageous self-mill and recursion, in a heavier black deck, does she fill the role Izzet Staticasterhas in our sideboard? I often use it against X/1 decks and lingering souls but lily seems to be able to fill a similar spot with her +1 and maybe even more. Thoughts?
Regarding liliana-
Her plus kills a lot of stuff in modern. If kills every dude in affinity and infect, it neutralizes every thread in burn, kills bob, snap and a persisted finks. It also kills bloodghast, which is usually irrelevant. It also kills hierarchs and birds, opposing delvers and pyros, and worst case scenario gains you 2 life a turn till they deal with it.
Her minus is amazing here, it fuels the yard for snap/delve, and also buys back threats. This is the mode you use in matchups her plus is bad, like vs urx and bgx
Her ult of course wins the game. Bonus points since gurmag gives you an extra zombie a turn
I actually like the card in concept, but cards that aren't proactively killing/Disrupting your opponent can be traps here. Tbh ive not been much of a fan of electrolyze in this deck for a long time, so perhaps ill test her out as a fun of for awhile, cutting electrolyze
Edit: the wipe is bad here. If we want a wipe, it's anger, a wipe heavier into our bigger color, only costs 3 which is all we can reliably have ,comes down a turn earlier which is crucial, and the exile is extremely important for one of our worst matchups. Casting av off it is cute, but this is modern, cute stuff gets torn to shreds and throw onto the highway. Besides, av is actively bad in the matchups we want a sweeper in, so siding in bad cards to make a bad card better is a... Bad plan
Yahenni's is quite squarely a Control card and not Delver. It hits so many of our threats - pyros and delvers - and the cmc is beyond your typical land count by the end of your typical game. AV isn't mainboarded for Delver, and not even a sideboard staple for all, and that's arguably one of the best cards you can chain off of Expertise with. I'm excited to play Control with this new toy, but definitely not Delver. For all intents and purposes, Anger is the wipe that's relevant to Delver in terms of speed and that exile clause, if at all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
What are people's thoughts on putting 2 LOTV in here?
Going to playtest it out tomorrow.
As Rothgar noted, Liliana, the Last Hope is a much better card for the deck. I've even tested with having one maindeck instead of the Gurmag Angler, but the double black can prove to be an issue that early on so you're going to want more black sources. She is very good in the deck though - able to kill off Lingering Souls tokens against Abzan (a big deal), or any other X/1s. The -2 is super good too, not only for Delve but for recurring Snapcaster Mages. I think trying out 2 could be neat, but you'll want to cut an Electrolyze or something since the deck doesn't want a lot of expensive cards.
Confirmed! I tried LOTV here and went against Nahiri Control. It was very ok...the +1 was good to control my opponents hand. Took his counterspells away. But it was also a bit of a nonbo with Tasigur. I would discard a dead card with LOTV, activate Tasigur only for my opponent to give it back to me. The -2 did virtually nothing.
Liliana, the Last Hope definitely seems much better.
BTW - I'm playing 19 lands. What's the optimum number of lands people normally run? Dare we go down to 17?
So we are running about 4-5 counterspells. Do you guys miss counterspells and wish we had more?
So we are running about 4-5 counterspells. Do you guys miss counterspells and wish we had more?
I play the Kevin Jones version with some sideboard alterations. But I would really like another counter or two. Too many times I've been caught with my pants down I feel.
What are people's thoughts on putting 2 LOTV in here?
Going to playtest it out tomorrow.
As Rothgar noted, Liliana, the Last Hope is a much better card for the deck. I've even tested with having one maindeck instead of the Gurmag Angler, but the double black can prove to be an issue that early on so you're going to want more black sources. She is very good in the deck though - able to kill off Lingering Souls tokens against Abzan (a big deal), or any other X/1s. The -2 is super good too, not only for Delve but for recurring Snapcaster Mages. I think trying out 2 could be neat, but you'll want to cut an Electrolyze or something since the deck doesn't want a lot of expensive cards.
Confirmed! I tried LOTV here and went against Nahiri Control. It was very ok...the +1 was good to control my opponents hand. Took his counterspells away. But it was also a bit of a nonbo with Tasigur. I would discard a dead card with LOTV, activate Tasigur only for my opponent to give it back to me. The -2 did virtually nothing.
Liliana, the Last Hope definitely seems much better.
BTW - I'm playing 19 lands. What's the optimum number of lands people normally run? Dare we go down to 17?
So we are running about 4-5 counterspells. Do you guys miss counterspells and wish we had more?
I'm currently on 19 and wouldn't go any lower, unless perhaps Preordain was unbanned. 19 allows for 8 fetch, 4 shock, 4 basic and 3 fast lands. This allows us to consistently hit 3 mana on 3, while having enough lands to reliably get to 5 in grindy matchups, and enough auxiliary lands to do well vs aggro. If you cut lands, you hurt the aggro mu since you lose painless lands and you hurt the grindy mu since you will miss more land drops.
As for counter magic, I feel like I'm running too much sometimes. The threats in modern currently are efficient creatures, it feels bad to rip a leak off the top while getting beat down by a goyf. If U based control and spell based combo are big in your meta I can see the argument for wanting more, but moderns efficient creature removal gets you so much more mileage than its terrible counter magic
I will be going to an RPTQ and my choices of decks are grixis control, grixis delver, or monou tron. I feel most comfortable with grixis delver at the moment so that will probably be my choice.
The maindeck is your usual kevin jone's special (I'm debating mana base right now - I have 3 fetchable black sources and a darkslick shores and I'm debating a fourth fetchable black source).
I've laid out a sideboard plan for a majority of the decks out there and would love a critique on it.
IDK, I tend to board in more threats against control and board out the counter magics. But I run 1 Clique and 1 Thoughtseize side for just that game plan. I have had decent luck with the all in burn plan against control decks such as Grixis control, lantern, and jund. I wouldn't board out my efficient damage there.
Quick tourney report. Small turnout last night. Took 2nd going 2-1.
Round 1 vs infect 2-0
Newer infect player. My hands looked like removal.dec
Round 2 vs mono u tron 2-0
Really like this matchup. Mana denial can go a long way. Plus siding in counterspell package here is great.
Round 3 vs living end 0-2
ricochet trap is a hell of a card
My basic game plan is to keep up counter for living end, but he just had ricochet trap every time...
How is this matchup for you guys? I'm 50/50 vs it overall.
For jund, we had significant discussion the other day about straight siding out collective altogether
For burn, i never sidr out delvers. He is only bad vs searing blaze, otherwise he is our best clock, and if they point burn at him thats great in my book. this is a matchup where we need to close the door asap
For jund, we had significant discussion the other day about straight siding out collective altogether
For burn, i never sidr out delvers. He is only bad vs searing blaze, otherwise he is our best clock, and if they point burn at him thats great in my book. this is a matchup where we need to close the door asap
Still agree on both. Collective CAN br good, but its too situational, and bolting delver is 1 less at our face.
I saw that. Seems interesting. In theory this deck wants to trade mana not cards, but has anyone actually tested iok or thought seize in a current shell?
I run a Thoughtseize in the sideboard currently. I've been thinking about cutting it, not a big fan tbh. Paying mana to take a card they have invested nothing in is not really where we want to be
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Yahenni's Expertise
2BB Sorcery (Rare)
All creatures get -3/-3 until end of turn.
You may cast a card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your hand without paying its mana cost.
----------------------
Although I don't think this is a card we're looking for because of the CMC, still fun to cast it with AV (you can cast AV for free with this).
Turn 2 flip.
Save fetch for delver scry.
Don't Scour your scry.
Points in the game when you become the beat down.
Knowing my deck inside out makes it hard to play against it, as opposed to just knowing the game in general.
Claim your card with snap before scavenging ooze resolves.
Delve instantly with murderous cut vs goyf.
Watch out for the simian spirit mana leak bait.
Don't be scared to delve some good cards, especially vs RIP.
Sometimes don't delve relevant cards and wait.
Seems basic enough. If I could sum up my mentality with this deck it would be like, kill you now, please?
Anyone else?
Going to playtest it out tomorrow.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
As Rothgar noted, Liliana, the Last Hope is a much better card for the deck. I've even tested with having one maindeck instead of the Gurmag Angler, but the double black can prove to be an issue that early on so you're going to want more black sources. She is very good in the deck though - able to kill off Lingering Souls tokens against Abzan (a big deal), or any other X/1s. The -2 is super good too, not only for Delve but for recurring Snapcaster Mages. I think trying out 2 could be neat, but you'll want to cut an Electrolyze or something since the deck doesn't want a lot of expensive cards.
I love delver, so flexible :B::B:
MODERN: TezzeretAoB
TINY LEADERS: Varolz Infect
PAUPER: Midnight Presence
Her plus kills a lot of stuff in modern. If kills every dude in affinity and infect, it neutralizes every thread in burn, kills bob, snap and a persisted finks. It also kills bloodghast, which is usually irrelevant. It also kills hierarchs and birds, opposing delvers and pyros, and worst case scenario gains you 2 life a turn till they deal with it.
Her minus is amazing here, it fuels the yard for snap/delve, and also buys back threats. This is the mode you use in matchups her plus is bad, like vs urx and bgx
Her ult of course wins the game. Bonus points since gurmag gives you an extra zombie a turn
I actually like the card in concept, but cards that aren't proactively killing/Disrupting your opponent can be traps here. Tbh ive not been much of a fan of electrolyze in this deck for a long time, so perhaps ill test her out as a fun of for awhile, cutting electrolyze
Edit: the wipe is bad here. If we want a wipe, it's anger, a wipe heavier into our bigger color, only costs 3 which is all we can reliably have ,comes down a turn earlier which is crucial, and the exile is extremely important for one of our worst matchups. Casting av off it is cute, but this is modern, cute stuff gets torn to shreds and throw onto the highway. Besides, av is actively bad in the matchups we want a sweeper in, so siding in bad cards to make a bad card better is a... Bad plan
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Confirmed! I tried LOTV here and went against Nahiri Control. It was very ok...the +1 was good to control my opponents hand. Took his counterspells away. But it was also a bit of a nonbo with Tasigur. I would discard a dead card with LOTV, activate Tasigur only for my opponent to give it back to me. The -2 did virtually nothing.
Liliana, the Last Hope definitely seems much better.
BTW - I'm playing 19 lands. What's the optimum number of lands people normally run? Dare we go down to 17?
So we are running about 4-5 counterspells. Do you guys miss counterspells and wish we had more?
I play the Kevin Jones version with some sideboard alterations. But I would really like another counter or two. Too many times I've been caught with my pants down I feel.
Thank you so much mchief111 for the amazing art!
BUG is the Jund of EDH!
Modern: Jund, Grixis Delver, Bant Eldrazi, TitanShift
Commander: Brago, Yidris, Mizzix, Marath, Atheros, Daretti
I'm currently on 19 and wouldn't go any lower, unless perhaps Preordain was unbanned. 19 allows for 8 fetch, 4 shock, 4 basic and 3 fast lands. This allows us to consistently hit 3 mana on 3, while having enough lands to reliably get to 5 in grindy matchups, and enough auxiliary lands to do well vs aggro. If you cut lands, you hurt the aggro mu since you lose painless lands and you hurt the grindy mu since you will miss more land drops.
As for counter magic, I feel like I'm running too much sometimes. The threats in modern currently are efficient creatures, it feels bad to rip a leak off the top while getting beat down by a goyf. If U based control and spell based combo are big in your meta I can see the argument for wanting more, but moderns efficient creature removal gets you so much more mileage than its terrible counter magic
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
The maindeck is your usual kevin jone's special (I'm debating mana base right now - I have 3 fetchable black sources and a darkslick shores and I'm debating a fourth fetchable black source).
I've laid out a sideboard plan for a majority of the decks out there and would love a critique on it.
Here is my sideboard and the current plan:
burn
out: 4 delver, 3 probe
in: 2 dispel, 2 countersquall, 1 collective, 2 magma
dredge
out: 3 bolt, 2 spell snare, 1 collective, 2 leak
in: 3 surgical, 2 magma, 2 countersquall, 1 izzet
affinity
out: 2 leak, 1 collective, 1 probe, 1 pyromancer, 1 thought
in: 1 ee, 2 magma, 1 vandalblast, 1 izzet, 1 kolaghan's
infect
out: 2 snare, 1 thought, 1 probe, 2 leak
in: 1 izzet, 2 dispel, 2 magma spray, 1 kolaghan's
death's shadow
out: 2 electrolyze, 1 kolaghan, 1 leak
in: 1 ee, 1 collective, 2 countersquall
jund:
out: 4 delver, 2 bolt
in: 2 countersquall, 1 ee, 1 kolaghan's, 1 painful, 1 collective
abzan
out: 4 delver, 2 bolt
in: 2 countersquall, 1 izzet, 1 kolaghan's, painful, 1 collective
lantern control
out: 4 bolt, 2 terminate, 1 murderous, 2 snare, 1 probe
in: 1 ee, 2 countersquall, 2 dispel, 3 surgical, 1 vandalblast, 1 painful
elves
out: 2 snare, 2 mana leak, 3 probe???
in: 2 dispel, 2 magma spray, 1 collective, 1 ee, 1 izzet
merfolk
out: 2 mana leak, 2 snare, 2 probe
in: 1 ee, 1 izzet, 2 magma spray, 1 kolaghan's, 1 collective
titanshift
out: 4 bolt, 1 terminate, 1 murderous, 2 electrolyze
in: 2 dispel, 2 countersquall, 1 collective, 3 surgical
ad nauseam
out: 4 bolt, 2 terminate, 1 murderous, 2 electrolyze, 1 thought
in: 2 dispel, 2 countersquall, 1 ee, 3 surgical, 1 kolaghan's, 1 collective
sun and moon
out: 4 bolt, 2 terminate, 1 murderous
in: 1 ee, 2 countersquall, 1 kolaghan's command, 3 surgical
if creatures:
out: 1 terminate, 2 bolt, 2 snare
in: 1 ee, 3 surgical, 1 kolaghan's
bantdrazi
out: 2 snare, 1 thought, 1 collective
in: 2 magma spray, 2 countersquall
bant knightfall
out: 2 snare, 1 probe, 1 collective, 1 kolaghan's
in: 2 dispel, 1 ee, 2 magma
tron
out: 1 terminate, 1 murderous cut, 1 collective brutality,
in: 1 kolaghan, 2 countersquall
grixis control
out: 4 delver, 4 bolt, 1 terminate
in: 1 brutality, 2 countersquall, 2 dispel, 2 surgical, 1 kolaghan's command, 1 painful truth
Round 1 vs infect 2-0
Newer infect player. My hands looked like removal.dec
Round 2 vs mono u tron 2-0
Really like this matchup. Mana denial can go a long way. Plus siding in counterspell package here is great.
Round 3 vs living end 0-2
ricochet trap is a hell of a card
My basic game plan is to keep up counter for living end, but he just had ricochet trap every time...
How is this matchup for you guys? I'm 50/50 vs it overall.
For burn, i never sidr out delvers. He is only bad vs searing blaze, otherwise he is our best clock, and if they point burn at him thats great in my book. this is a matchup where we need to close the door asap
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Still agree on both. Collective CAN br good, but its too situational, and bolting delver is 1 less at our face.