MTG Salvation

Well TIL I guessed. I've never struggled with Jund but felt it was pretty 50/50. I certainly haven't felt disadvantaged with Tasigurs, Snaps, Pyro, and Kommand.

I agree with chaos here. They generally have better top decks, and the probe pyro version runs less answers. 55-45 game 1, and 50-50 post.

I'm currently playing Ryan's list and I'm loving it. But I also like the Young Pyromancer build.

Kevin Jones is having a lot of success with YP version. So I kinda want to try it. Although, part of me doesn't like playing Gitaxian Probe.

What are the Pros/Cons and the good/bad matchups of each version. In what sort of meta (aggro, control, combo) should you play each version? Sorry if this question has been asked already.

I'd consider the Jund/Grixis Delver matchup pretty 50/50. Both decks have game against each other.

Quote from deathstroke99 »

I'm currently playing Ryan's list and I'm loving it. But I also like the Young Pyromancer build.

Kevin Jones is having a lot of success with YP version. So I kinda want to try it. Although, part of me doesn't like playing Gitaxian Probe.

What are the Pros/Cons and the good/bad matchups of each version. In what sort of meta (aggro, control, combo) should you play each version? Sorry if this question has been asked already.

I have played both. Last week was my first time on the Young Pyro and 3x Probe build and it felt much more powerful. I have an aggressive meta and Pyro took over the game very quickly. I am pretty sold on him, and this is coming from someone who was anti Pyro for a long time.

For people who playing Kevin Pyro list , can you guys give advice for sideboard?

Can someone run me down on the best and worst match ups for Grixis Delver? I see you guys saying Jund is 50/50. I know Abzan and Tron are bad matchups.

How does it fair against RG Titanshift?
Death and Taxes?
Kiki-Cord/Abzan Company?
Dredge?
Infect?
Storm/Ad Nauseum?

Thank you.

Tron is not a horrible match-up in my view. Grixis Delver has more game against them than many decks.

Infect isn't a bad match-up.

I haven't played against the others but Grixis Delver has more game against combo than some other, "better" (based on tiering) decks due to the counters. The number of counters available dictates the effectiveness against combo.

I suspect Dredge is a horrible match-up.

Quote from rick90 »

I have been playing this deck for quite a while and i can definitely say that Tron and Dredge are the worst matchups ever! G1 against dredge is 99.99% lost yet while post sideboard Surgical Extraction is AMAZING especially with snapcaster! You can kill them turn 2 exiling all amalgam and bloodghast!
Tron is more difficult unless you start with T1 delver, T2 tasigur and he is not able to play a T3 karn!

Infect is a lot favourable but we need to play carefully!
Affinity almost a bye for us!
jund is favourable for us cause it is a quite linear deck and we can go 1on1 on each of their threats! liliana can be a problem if not answered soon!

Other decks I have felt bad playing against are Boogles and Living End but luckily they are not so played now

Being on the play or draw matters greatly in all of these speed matchups. Being on the draw and having only moderate answers in hand (or the wrong answers) means we can be overrun quickly and easily. We also have no real access to life gain and run a painful manabase. I'd say there is at least a 10-15%+ unfavorable swing being on the draw, even in matchups we should be great in.

But yes, Tron and Dredge feel unwinnable without a fast clock or an opponent who mulligans and draws poorly. The Bogles matchup is miserable, but Living End isn't bad at all, IMO. A single counterspell can save you (even Remand).

Quote from cfusionpm »

But yes, Tron and Dredge feel unwinnable without a fast clock or an opponent who mulligans and draws poorly. The Bogles matchup is miserable, but Living End isn't bad at all, IMO. A single counterspell can save you (even Remand).

Tron and Dredge seem very different match-ups. One can win turn-five on the play against Tron safely. Dredge will probably run you over before then and there probably isn't much you can do about it pre-board.

Remand is awesome against Living End! It's practically game-over.

If one is concerned with FNM, then one can build a specific side-board for the expected match-ups or even tune the main-board. Things that might be crap in an open gaming environment become solid ideas. Blood Moon, Ravenous Trap, Geth's Verdict, Anger of the Gods . . . There are all manner of things that are super for a specific match-up that one might not even consider for a PTQ or something similar.

Went 3-1 last night.

Round 1 - Grixis Control 2-0
Had a turn 1 delver flip into turn 3 Tasigur with Spell Snare protection. Game 2 I used Collective Brutality to yank a terminate and dropped an Angler and won.

Round 2 - Grixis Control 2-0
Game 1 I flipped a Delver and landed a Tasigur early. Game 2 I had a Tasigur out and then played a Blood Moon. Got there.

Round 3 - Infect 1-2
Game 1 I punted so hard. Just brain farted how to play this matchup completely. Game 2 I had lots of removal and Snaps. Game 3 I punted again. I am bad at Magic.

Round 3 - Naya Burn 1-0 (he conceded game 2 early so 2-0 I guess)
Game 1 I bolted his Nacatl, took a hit from Goblin Guide, then landed a Tasigur. I had a Snare and Snapcaster in hand and he couldn't do anything. He scooped game 2 cuz he had to go but this matchup seems fine. I brought in Countersqualls, Dispels, Negates, and Blood Moon.


Overall notes:

Blood Moon is good. I want to go up to two or three in the SB.

Electrolyze is underwhelming and will be moving to 3x mainboard terminates.

This deck has legs and game against anything, love it.

For reference I am pretty much on Kevin Jones' list.

Quote from Venomous72 »

Kevin Jones playing delver at the WMCQ. Just beat Jund in game 1.

I like how the commentators are all "Grixis Delver has such a hard time with Jund hurr durr". It's clear that Marshall doesn't know Modern very well.

Yeah I'd definitely say it's a 50/50 matchup in any case, and can even get better depending on meta. Hope Team USA is doing well in any case.

Also, grats on the 3-1. I think that dropping Electrolyze for another Terminate makes sense in a meta that has become stupidly fast and also relies on pump effects for explosive wins, as well as just all of the control decks.

Speaking of Grixis Control, I can't shake the feeling that it's just an inferior Grixis Delver. Ancestral Visions is cool, but Delver just clocks so many decks.

Kevin Jones deck tech at WMC: https://www.twitch.tv/magic/v/102031598

I believe this is what his decks looks like.



This actually a list that I really like: playing with Pyros without Probes. Really look forward to testing this build.

Didn't watch the deck tech but since it is unified modern they might have needed to use the probes for infect. I think Owen was on that.

I didn't know about the rules: that you couldn't use the same cards.

I guess Kevin probably wanted to have the Probes. I don't know, I just don't like the life loss with the Probes.

Currently on Overturf's build with 2 YP instead of a Clique and Brutality, it's good so far.

I think the deck runs great without probes anyway. I've been on the following list, and I really like it - collective brutality is an awesome card in my opinion, so I like that he upped it:

@jonathanveedot: Glad you agree, because I feel like Young Pyromancer version without Probes runs great too.

I mean, Burn is a bad matchup, but it's not unwinnable. I have won some games. But with Probes, I think we're making it 10 times harder or even unwinnable with the low count of counterspells KJ's version runs.

So, I am planning on making a Grixis Delver deck, problem is I'm trying not to spend much more than $20 on any single card, with the exception of Snappy of course. Can I just eschew the playset of Scalding Tarns and instead maybe run 4 Polluted Delta and 4 Bloodstained Mire and possibly some slightly higher number of shocks? Thanks.

I play with this and it works totally fine. You do occasional end up in awkward situations though.

That actually looks pretty good, I think I'll consider it, although my current land base looks more like this

It might seem a little odd but some of these I did already have, like the Spirebluff Canal